Seeking Alpha

Herbalife rebounds after Mr. Ackman fails to deliver a knockout punch

  • Shares of Herbalife (HLF +14.8%) pop on a 5x surge in volume after investors regain confidence that the company "ain't done yet." In this morning's webcast, Mr. Ackman presented the findings of the investigation into the firm's Nutrition Clubs (NC) that Pershing Square sponsored. Unfortunately for shorts, there was little new information that would portend a collapse of the company. The investigative team looked into > 240 Nutrition Clubs in the U.S., Mexico and six other countries. There are > 37,000 NCs in Mexico that account for 75% of HLF's business in that country. Latinos figure prominently in Herbalife's growth.
  • Investigative reporter-cum-analyst Christine Richard was the person who gave Mr. Ackman the idea of shorting Herbalife. She led the investigative effort into the NCs. She says that the clubs make money via the "certification" process for aspiring NC owners. They work for free, must consume and pay for product each time they report to a club and must deliver at least 10 repeat customers to the teaching club before they are allowed to open their own. The total investment is ~$3,000 which is similar to the initial investment in inventory for Supervisor status, it's just spread out over time. Mr. Ackman asserts that the NCs use deceptive tactics and violate labor laws by forcing people to work for free.
  • According to the company, 33 - 41% of its earnings are derived from NCs. If they were to be shut down (by government action) the company would face a catastrophic collapse. Mr. Ackman believes the proportion is as high as 50% of earnings. He admitted that Canada is the only government that has looked into the situation thus far.
  • As a crowning touch at the end of presentation and prior to the Q&A, Mr. Ackman called Herbalife CEO Michael Johnson a predator and a criminal. He then got emotional as he described his immigrant ancestors' pursuit of the American Dream. Regrettably, the camera didn't pan the audience to see how many members were teary-eyed as well.
Comments (64)
  • The Deep Value Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (278) | Send Message
     
    Been watching it all morning. His case was rather un-compelling.
    22 Jul, 01:09 PM Reply Like
  • Distributor Dan
    , contributor
    Comments (349) | Send Message
     
    This kind of sums it up: http://bit.ly/Umg8gD
    22 Jul, 01:13 PM Reply Like
  • HLF Friend
    , contributor
    Comments (131) | Send Message
     
    He just is learning about Nutrition Clubs NOW . 50% of the HLF business . What kind a work did he do 18 months ago when he SHORTED 1Billion at 40. He should be Fired by all of his accounts. Today he cried to show you he cares. only about MONEY& looking bad . His EGO& greed are so involved he's breaking the LAW recording without permission . Buying his truth to manipulate the STOCK. His time will come . Meanwhile the FUNDAMENTALS speak . 20 qtrs beating estimates ,all TOP Analysts have "BUYS" , going to $120-$150
    22 Jul, 04:41 PM Reply Like
  • HRpro222
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Q&A brought up some very nice points! Still is actually...
    22 Jul, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2070) | Send Message
     
    @ Christie Richard......

     

    They work for free, must consume and pay for product each time they report to a club and must deliver at least 10 repeat customers to the teaching club before they are allowed to open their own. The total investment is ~$3,000 which is similar to the initial investment in inventory for Supervisor status, it's just spread out over time. Mr. Ackman asserts that the NCs use deceptive tactics and violate labor laws by forcing people to work for free.

     

    That is just crap..... Some clubs might work like that. Mine surely do NOT. So your thinking on what needs to be invested in entirely inaccurate..... as usual
    22 Jul, 01:15 PM Reply Like
  • P.Gadget
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    @Mike: "That is just crap..... Some clubs might work like that. Mine surely do NOT."

     

    It doesn't really matter how your clubs work if that is the official Herbalife "Best of the Best" way.
    22 Jul, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • fuzzymc
    , contributor
    Comments (103) | Send Message
     
    Hope it goes to 100 and Ackman gets slaughtered
    22 Jul, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • powershake
    , contributor
    Comments (1277) | Send Message
     
    Poor QTR, he tried so hard. There, there buddy, Ackman clearly knows how to manipulate the market, doesn't he??
    22 Jul, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • red-bull
    , contributor
    Comments (113) | Send Message
     
    @powershake
    QTR, work is writing a essay with your imagination! you pay him he will write anything same tropics two or three times a day, he don't follow basic rolls or fundamental he knows all sector!! I mean every thing! I'm wonder how many folks loose there shirts when following this kind of characters...
    22 Jul, 09:40 PM Reply Like
  • Jeffjacobjames
    , contributor
    Comments (557) | Send Message
     
    Woo hoo! HLF is up 17% right now! That was quite a "deathblow"... NOT! I can't wait to read how QTR, Matt S. and other shorts respond to this latest Aclman failure!
    22 Jul, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • powershake
    , contributor
    Comments (1277) | Send Message
     
    ACKMAN >> "He admitted that Canada is the only government that has looked into the situation so far." WHAT A SLICK SLEAZY SALESMAN! Yes, they've looked and upped their investment!!!

     

    Ichan, Soros and Canadian government upped their investment in HLF knowing FULL WELL the the FTC was investigating!!! Note: The Canadian gov can NOT invest in illegal activities!!!
    SHORT SQUEEZE AHEAD - Smart shorts better run for the exits!!
    22 Jul, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • WallStreetDebunker
    , contributor
    Comments (2377) | Send Message
     
    "Mr. Ackman called Herbalife CEO Michael Johnson a predator and a criminal."

     

    Are you sure that teary-eyed Ackman isn't just auditioning for a job at CNN as a crime show host like Nancy Grace?

     

    Maybe Ackman and Chris Hansen can co-host a TV series based on undercover sting operations involving multi-level marketing companies: To Catch a Corporate Predator.

     

    "Go ahead and have a seat here...You can finish your smoothie...Keep your hands out of your pockets, please...Our email records show that you tried to sell 100 pounds of nutritional powder to a man on welfare who lives in a rusted out 1972 Ford Van."
    22 Jul, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • dieuwer
    , contributor
    Comments (2258) | Send Message
     
    If I were Michael Johnson I would sue Ackman for slander.
    22 Jul, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • Dildeaux
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Those tears? The tears are for Mr Ackmans now defunct career. Im not in HLF but today has been entertaining to say the least.
    22 Jul, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • phil0913
    , contributor
    Comments (14) | Send Message
     
    Ackman should be investigated for fraud and stock manipulation. It would be interesting to track his shares to determine whether or not he is profiting everytime he makes the outlandish and so far unproven claims. Perhaps he and Icahn are playing boumcing trades to profit on the volatility.
    22 Jul, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • The Fox
    , contributor
    Comments (627) | Send Message
     
    How could he be prosecuted for stock manipulation? He is underwater by 30 points. There is definitely manipulation....other hedge funds playing him like a fiddle.
    22 Jul, 05:27 PM Reply Like
  • Reel Ken
    , contributor
    Comments (3855) | Send Message
     
    There is much for everyone to learn from this.

     

    Yesterday the shorts were jumping for joy, chiding the longs.

     

    Perhaps, the story needs to play out before jumping to conclusion.

     

    Also, what joy can there be in taking pleasure from another ones loss? Does someone that disagrees with one become an enemy?

     

    Yesterdays glory all too often turns into todays defeat.
    22 Jul, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2070) | Send Message
     
    @Ken... Did I hear Ackman right?????

     

    Bill Ackman admits on national television that he spent 50 million dollars on research about Herbalife - and yet he admits just yesterday that he doesn't understand the Herbalife business model?

     

    Sounds like he got scammed.....
    22 Jul, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2070) | Send Message
     
    @Ken... By the way.... I read your piece the other day. And I disagree.... Fusion research research was not trying to propel or spin their own theory. He was only busting out Ackman. And if you read the entire dialog between the two, you'll clearly see this is fact. So I don't know why you said fusion was spinning anything. They were only authoring to prove that Ackman's analyst, Shane Dinneen, was incorrect. And fusion was correct 100% and Shane got fired because fusion proved 100% that he was incorrect.
    22 Jul, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • Reel Ken
    , contributor
    Comments (3855) | Send Message
     
    Hi Hrebs,

     

    Fusion rebuked Ackman saying he misinterpreted VanderNat.

     

    Fusion the followed that with a calculation that mis-used VanderNat.

     

    Call it spin, or whatever you want. But the goose and the gander walked together walked into the slaughterhouse together.
    22 Jul, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • Ted Bear
    , contributor
    Comments (584) | Send Message
     
    One of the tenants of a successful short position is to believe in your work, and keep it private.

     

    Who cares if he is right? So far all he has done in incite a bunch of profiteers to buy the shares knowing that he (Ackman) is a large buyer of the shares at some point. When Ackman covers, the longs get out at a huge profit, and the shares are then free to collapse.

     

    Old saying: situations can stay illogical for a lot longer than you can stay liquid. Ackman would have been much better if he just did the work, established the position, and let nature take its course. Investors talk...and they HATE having a hedgie call with a short story in one of their long holdings.
    22 Jul, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (284) | Send Message
     
    Unless you're Einhorn.
    22 Jul, 11:51 PM Reply Like
  • Bouchart
    , contributor
    Comments (759) | Send Message
     
    This whole wild price fluctuation in HLF starting yesterday strikes me as so odd.

     

    Certainly, everyone yesterday know Ackman would be giving a presentation today, and that he's no friend of HLF. There was nothing really that should have been a surprise to anybody. Just what is going on?
    22 Jul, 01:38 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2070) | Send Message
     
    I very much agree with this comment.... I think Ackman is using surrogates to get his cash back.... and he is manipulating these swings with his presentations. and it seems that everybody is long as soon as the presentation starts (including Bills surrogates). Probably some longs knowing this is happening is on this too
    22 Jul, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • PChan444
    , contributor
    Comments (397) | Send Message
     
    Ackman such a clown
    22 Jul, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • PChan444
    , contributor
    Comments (397) | Send Message
     
    Chan can't believe there was such big selloff ahead of this garbage presentation....
    Very profitable for Chan
    22 Jul, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • HRpro222
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    While I'm not impressed with his presentation content either, I'm confident the hundred hours of recorded video/audio/other content he will be forwarding to various government entities will take appropriate action. He is right in the sense that the nutrition club model is set up to consume people and manipulate them into buying that junk until they can't anymore.

     

    This is personal for me. Something they did to someone I knew - They (nutrition club owners/people higher in the pyramid) are trained to ask distributors (victims) to tell everyone why they're doing it... why they're dedicated... what are they doing it for... She was manipulated into thinking this "opportunity" was valuable enough to dedicate herself to the scheme in the name of her friend who died a couple years ago.

     

    Not too long ago, she spent an hour crying on my shoulder about how she wasn't succeeding, couldn't find people to buy her products, couldn't find people to even accept her little free shake coupon to come into their nutrition club, much less come in even if people in the public did accept it. She still hasn't come to her senses, and unfortunately I feel it will have to be something she learns the hard way.

     

    I'm thoroughly disgusted with this company and can't wait to see the demise of it.
    22 Jul, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2070) | Send Message
     
    @HRpro.... I don't know about your friend... but it's working for me. and I have no problem finding fat people that want to lose weight. There are many things I could ask like, is your friend fat? cause it's tough to sell weight loss products when you are fat. How many people did she talk to a day? where at? what time of day? There are many things. But one thing is for sure, 7 out of 10 people in the USA are fat. at least 5 out of 10 want to lose weight. They will try the products if they are confident they will get results... People don't mind spending money, even a lot of money if they can get what they pay for. But people hate to waste money (pay for something and not get what they paid for).
    22 Jul, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • HRpro222
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Herbs4mike - that was an absolutely ridiculous response and you should be ashamed of yourself. The reason she isn't succeeding is that she isn't a manipulator at heart like yourself
    22 Jul, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • HRpro222
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    Furthermore... something called market saturation. Keep selling dreams to people. If there is a hell... you belong in it
    22 Jul, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • User 6461431
    , contributor
    Comments (656) | Send Message
     
    "I'm confident the hundred hours of recorded video/audio/other content he will be forwarding to various government entities will take appropriate action."

     

    I am sure that Ackman is forwarding information on to regulators, the problem is, regulators can only look at it and say "That's nice". They need to conduct their own investigation, and their own research. Ackman is Biased so it is impossible for regulators to know whether he collected 100 Hours of audio & video, and gave them all 100 hours, or if he collected 1000 hours and only gave regulators 100 hours of the worst footage, but withheld 900 hours where there was nothing illegal or sleazy going on.

     

    If Ackman was truly interested in taking down the company, he would do research and feed that information to regulators and keep his mouth shut. By doing these very public presentations, he is increasing the scrutiny on regulators and slowing down their actions as they need to make sure that their findings are 100% spot on and not biased in any way.
    22 Jul, 02:38 PM Reply Like
  • Miguel Costa
    , contributor
    Comments (42) | Send Message
     
    User 6461431: Why should he keep his mouth shut? If you look at much of the corporate frauds we have experienced in the past the regulators were usually passive and done nothing the prevent it.

     

    We might not agree with him but his actions are legal and an example of what should be done when you believe in something (be persistent and fight for your own ideas).

     

    herbs4mike: do you have any content to share with us or just irrelevant and ridiculous comments? You should be ashamed of yourself!!
    22 Jul, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • The Fox
    , contributor
    Comments (627) | Send Message
     
    Jeez...condemning someone to eternal damnation because of a SA post? Who is the bad person here?
    22 Jul, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • E. Robert Smith
    , contributor
    Comments (345) | Send Message
     
    Regardless of the reaction to Bill Ackman's nutrition club presentation, the fact remains that he has accumulated and enormous among of evidence that will be considered by the FTC in their investigation. But moreover, people are acting as if the whole issue of Herbalife's legality is resting on his case. Not so, he's not, by a long shot, the only dissenting voice. Before Ackman, the coalition to stop MLM fraud, was. They've been pressing the issue for well over ten years, and gradually gaining ground.

     

    If Ackman folded tomorrow, we would continue on, demanding that the regulatory community deal with the problem. This is a problem that yearns for a solution. One of those things that must happen if the nation is to be cleansed of abusive operations like MLM. It's a never-ending battle, keeping crime from over taking the nation.

     

    In this case, the legality of the industry has been in question almost from its inception. The prosecution of Burn Lounge had nothing to do with Ackman; and there will be more to come as the pressure on the FTC mounts. Ackman has merely made things easier in clearing up thew fraud of MLM. And in doing so, he has pushed the day of reckoning closer. Longs and pro-MLM people, have a field day, it matters not. The outcome of this situation is close at hand.
    22 Jul, 06:31 PM Reply Like
  • powershake
    , contributor
    Comments (1277) | Send Message
     
    Miguel Costa,

     

    User 646 gave you his reason why its better for Ackman to shut up, Ackman can do the research but NO public event is needed.

     

    herbs4mike said...
    "7 out of 10 people in the USA are fat. at least 5 out of 10 want to lose weight. They will try the products if they are confident they will get results... People don't mind spending money, even a lot of money if they can get what they pay for. But people hate to waste money (pay for something and not get what they paid for)."

     

    What don't you understand?
    23 Jul, 01:19 AM Reply Like
  • Clayton Rulli
    , contributor
    Comments (2508) | Send Message
     
    When your emotions get behind an investment thesis there is trouble brewing. Mr Ackman don't get too spiritual on this one?
    22 Jul, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • Deja Vu
    , contributor
    Comments (1196) | Send Message
     
    Seriously, I have sympathy for Ackman, but today's performance would have been better left undone...or at least not given such a big build up...
    22 Jul, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • chammond63
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    How can I should Bill Ackman?
    22 Jul, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • herbs4mike
    , contributor
    Comments (2070) | Send Message
     
    Ackman is nothing more than a greedy person that saw an opportunity to create the big bang, except it was a mirage. His analyst was wrong, and was totally busted out by fusion research. After he was busted out Ackman fired him..... Nothing says success better than firing your most knowledgeable person on the investment..... He must have gotten fired because he was "spot on"
    22 Jul, 02:02 PM Reply Like
  • AllIwantisthetruth
    , contributor
    Comments (50) | Send Message
     
    You need to check your facts.
    22 Jul, 04:19 PM Reply Like
  • bakermre
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    The roller coaster ride of HLF shares, resulting from Bill Ackman's high-wire, P. T. Barnum Circus act, are a classic contest between snake-oil salesmen offering the "Elixir of Life" (disguised flavoured alcohol in bottles with fancy labels) of frontier 1850's style marketing from the back of a Conestoga Wagon, and a slick showman, mouthing melodramatic innuendo to an expectant, gullible audience. What a show! Trouble is, will the US Cavalry show up or the Indians on the run? As American as apple pie, bows and arrows, 'cowboys and injuns'. The real question is: who'll get the arrow in the back? Bill or Carl? Stay tuned for the fun story of the year. My guess is sell short on the up days (today); buy long on the downers (yesterday or tomorrow), for fun and maybe some profit. The Calgary Stampede needs an act like this; yet it seems the Canadians have been afraid to add it to their program beyond Canadian Pacific. Where's Sgt. Preston?
    22 Jul, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • powershake
    , contributor
    Comments (1277) | Send Message
     
    The road to HLF's Q2 Earning Report is clear... KABOOM!!!

     

    What an egotistical narcissistic person - Ackman he needs medical help!
    Last famous words - You will learn how HLF will collapse, HLF is the largest public fraud according to the number of countries involved, we won't disappoint... I will deliver the Death Blow... the company is totally panicking... Let's talk tomorrow...
    http://tinyurl.com/lmw......
    22 Jul, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • Michael Williams
    , contributor
    Comments (114) | Send Message
     
    Seems like no one cares as to WHAT a pyramid scheme is in the view of the law.

     

    "promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public."

     

    If that is the definition of a Pyramid Scheme, then Bill is correct. The bulk of HLF revenue is generated by RECRUITING "enrolling" new members and not derived from supply/selling any products.

     

    Personally, even though I agree with Bill's assessment and not intending to sound cold or unfeeling, but I think Pyramid schemes should be made legal. Why not? Ignorance is never an excuse. However, my moral views on it will be left of a different time.
    22 Jul, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • powershake
    , contributor
    Comments (1277) | Send Message
     
    Michael W,

     

    The advisory on the SEC and FTC website have NOT been updated to reflect BL new "end user" definition from June 6, 14 - which favors MLM's in general.
    Read "ninjahatori" comments they are full of good info!

     

    This an recent video w/ HLF's CFO @ 2:50 talks about 97% end users in HLF!!!
    http://fxn.ws/1rzLgaA
    23 Jul, 03:41 PM Reply Like
  • Michael Williams
    , contributor
    Comments (114) | Send Message
     
    Reminds me of the Einhorn vs. Allied fight or Einhorn vs. Lehman.People thought Einhorn was some stupid young poker-playing, hedge fund wanna-be, arrogant kid. Einhorn was right on both and in the minority. He took a beating before the truth be told.

     

    Stay in the fight Bill!

     

    Suggest Einhorn's book "Fooling some of the people all of the time!"
    22 Jul, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • leopardtrader
    , contributor
    Comments (884) | Send Message
     
    This senseless run up by HLF presents one of the best shorting opportunities currently. This stock could be under $40 pretty soon. From $65 to $35 assuredly. I have accumulated big short today.

     

    Market just forgot that HLF is still under FTC investigation just because Bill ACkmann failed to impress them with a smoking gun. It is not about Bill but common sense and the structure. This would be the best 80~100% yield in 3~6 months with minimal downside
    22 Jul, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • markrpat
    , contributor
    Comments (197) | Send Message
     
    Lots of shares traded today, how much was short covering ahead of Monday earnings report? Ackman gave many the opportunity to cover. Looking back, last time daily volume was this high was February 15, 2013.
    22 Jul, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • Reel Ken
    , contributor
    Comments (3855) | Send Message
     
    Hi Leopardtrader,

     

    ...........".......Market just forgot that HLF is still under FTC investigation ......."

     

    I disagree. The market discounted HLF on account of this.

     

    What we saw yesterday and today, is the market thought Ackman had a deal-breaker. Stock down.

     

    Turned out he had a dud. Marker corrected and added a few points. These few points represent a discount for Ackman's loss of credibility.

     

    The FTC discount remains in place. Just look at a chart.
    22 Jul, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • BruMo
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    Short Squeeze???? nahhhh...
    22 Jul, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • hdman
    , contributor
    Comments (24) | Send Message
     
    Lets say a prayed for Bill that his pain and suffering soon ends!!! On the end of a rope!
    22 Jul, 03:15 PM Reply Like
  • The_Hammer
    , contributor
    Comments (3848) | Send Message
     
    Hackman does it again
    22 Jul, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • BruMo
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    Leopardtrader....if they shut down HLF, it would be as if shutting down the industry.... there will be some changes, for sure...but HLF will survive.... as far as stock price.....well,, Kenny Rogers song is the theme~ ya gots to know when to holdem,,, know when to foldem.....
    22 Jul, 03:52 PM Reply Like
  • Michael Williams
    , contributor
    Comments (114) | Send Message
     
    The problem with Bill's presentation was his presentation skills, which stunk.

     

    However, I believe that Bill's general assessment is correct. Whether the FTC, SEC, AG, FBI or other agencies (supposedly investigating) bring anything to bear is yet to be seen.

     

    Fact is HLF has some huge supporters, board members, Congress / Senators, etc. I have to hand it to HLF - whether they are in the right/wrong - they have put an impressive wall around them with government, PR, legal, and sponsorship.

     

    Bill is out there alone and I think, much like Einhorn, it will be a long battle before we get any real answers.
    22 Jul, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • june1234
    , contributor
    Comments (2549) | Send Message
     
    This one's better than Oprah. Getting milked for all its worth. Yesterday they were going to release info they called a "death blow" to HLF, stock tanks today its OK, back up she goes. I want to see Geraldo get behind this next
    22 Jul, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • submarine
    , contributor
    Comments (383) | Send Message
     
    Nah, Geraldo drinks F1!!
    22 Jul, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • Deja Vu
    , contributor
    Comments (1196) | Send Message
     
    I was crying too, at the end of the presentation, right along with Ackman, as I watched my put spreads burn up their premium...
    22 Jul, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • samuraitrader
    , contributor
    Comments (872) | Send Message
     
    What a waste of time and energy. For all those people who berate HLF, why not focus your anger where it could do some good. Start with companies and make and sell poison disguised as food. Kraft, McDs, etc all sell poison. Stuff that has no nutritional value. Is it no wonder there is an obesity epidemic, "food" allergy epidemic, autism, etc.? No one is getting sick from HLF. Yet 95% of the crap in a grocery store is poison. How can you have a healthy economy when you have a sick populace? Then stop the frackers from polluting what's left of your ground water while you still can. In one generation you may not have any and what you have will be toxic. But no, HLF is a ponzi scheme and that's important. Yeesh.
    22 Jul, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • Jayadams22
    , contributor
    Comments (18) | Send Message
     
    Ackman was crying cause his short position is getting CRUSHED! Cry now homeboy!
    22 Jul, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • Reel Ken
    , contributor
    Comments (3855) | Send Message
     
    Hey, here's a theory ... thoughts ?

     

    AcKman reversed pumped yesterday by pre-announcing his "death-blow" .... Stock tumbled.

     

    Ackman covered his short at $54, knowing he was about to reveal nothing. Not quite a squeeze .. an engineered cover.

     

    As presentation proceeded, more and more bought in, especially after Ackman already drove price up.

     

    Just a theory, but in this world of stock manipulation, one never knows, does one?
    22 Jul, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • markrpat
    , contributor
    Comments (197) | Send Message
     
    Reel Ken...those are cogent thoughts. I've been joking about it all day, it's not illegal. However, if he were doing so, I doubt he'd tear up. It's sickological.
    22 Jul, 11:08 PM Reply Like
  • optionsexpert
    , contributor
    Comments (284) | Send Message
     
    Or even better... Ackman and Icahn are in cahoots.
    23 Jul, 12:06 AM Reply Like
  • powershake
    , contributor
    Comments (1277) | Send Message
     
    Reel Ken,

     

    I think Ackman would do something like this.
    Here's a Q on this type of strategy: If Ackman were to cover a large amount of shares, wouldn't the float show the decrease in shorted shares outstanding?
    23 Jul, 01:46 AM Reply Like
  • johnoste
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    I have some stocks I would like Ackman to talk about.
    22 Jul, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • freeman8201
    , contributor
    Comments (500) | Send Message
     
    Yesterday morning Jim Cramer said he was hesitant on owning Herbalife as he said it might be a scam.

     

    It's time to go long if Jim ain't interested. And Herbalife's ceo was on tv too, he drank his coffee a bit nervously I'll rightfully add.
    23 Jul, 02:57 PM Reply Like
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