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Wall Street is losing some of its cachet among America’s best and brightest college...

Wall Street is losing some of its cachet among America’s best and brightest college students, and is facing a serious recruiting problem. As its professional image continues to get tarnished by a series of highly publicized industry scandals - such as the one buffeting Goldman right now - college students who were once attracted to prestigious banks like moths to bonfires have begun turning to other industries in search of success.
Comments (91)
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4011) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps we will see more of our bright graduates entering the fields of engineering and science? One can only hope.
    17 Mar 2012, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • Michael Eisenberg
    , contributor
    Comments (279) | Send Message
     
    And farming!
    17 Mar 2012, 03:30 PM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    That was my first thought and was also the reason I came to the comment section. You beat me to it! 'Bout time brainpower starts being applied to real problems instead of how to be a more effective market parasite.
    17 Mar 2012, 07:45 PM Reply Like
  • Modernist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Also, maybe primary/secondary schools will start preparing students to build, rather than play with, things. It's hard to go to engineering school when your only skill set is arguing about Mark Twain.
    17 Mar 2012, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2888) | Send Message
     
    Energy industry is now attracting lots of people.

     

    Financial industry should continue suffer layoffs, salary cuts, and bonus eliminations.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:08 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2888) | Send Message
     
    No. Agricultural productivity is still increasing fast. No need for more people.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:09 PM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (1014) | Send Message
     
    Hopefully we can find something else for these kids to do. Maybe stay home and play video games.

     

    These "best and brightest" have overinflated sense of self and their sense of entitilement knows no bounds. They lack moral compass and are easily convinced to cut corners. They do not understand there is a difference between productive work and "working the system". Hard work is not in their vocabulary. I am not talking about all current graduates, just the "best and brightest" segment which is drawn to banking, which are being mourned here.

     

    The last thing we want these people doing is calculating bridge loads or designing airplanes for us. Can you imagine L. Blankfein running engineering dept. for Boeing, staffed with this "best and brightest" gang of hooligans?
    18 Mar 2012, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    , contributor
    Comments (5416) | Send Message
     
    Modernist,
    Stop by a local Pre-school and see how much building is going on there.
    Somewhere along the way, children are losing interest in doing hands-on activities. You could find this occurs when they are in elementary school, generally.
    The US is moving to Common Core assessments, at least forty-six states are, next year.
    What this means is a bigger push to "prepare for the tests." This push will, undoubtedly, lead to even less hands-on activities for elementary school students.
    There are plenty of opportunities for students to excel in math and science in high school. These subjects require effort and discipline, something that is missing in many, many students.
    Justly two cents after twenty-three years teaching Pre-K and elementary classes.
    deercreekvols
    18 Mar 2012, 08:43 PM Reply Like
  • Hubert Biagi
    , contributor
    Comments (696) | Send Message
     
    LOL, when did the banking profession ever not have a tarnished image? It's always been human behavior to hate the people that control your money, and there have been banking scandals ever since I can remember. Most people will end up following the money, regardless.
    17 Mar 2012, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > It's always been human behavior to hate the people that control
    > your money

     

    That's sort of the point. The financial industry shouldn't be a controller (as it tries to be), it should be a facilitator. And they SHOULD be hated for trying, just as the regulators should be hated for letting them succeed.
    17 Mar 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Facilitate to who and from where? All the players in the value chain will be in financial services. Kind of like wishing doctors were facilitators but if you don't visit the doctor I am not sure how you will get any medical attention.

     

    Hate is not logical.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > All the players in the value chain will be in financial services.

     

    This is simply not fact true. The financial services industry exists in a larger economy that it does its best to siphon money from.

     

    Finance is not the engine of the economic machine, it is the grease. And too much grease is just as bad as too little.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    dv

     

    You are blinded by your bias. FS can be as big or small as it needs to be. You want it to be smaller so what don't you like that you want to go away? What has no value besides our royally screwed up mortgage market which had government paws all over it for decades.

     

    Here is your chance to recreate FS.
    17 Mar 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    "What has no value"

     

    1. Nanosecond trading.

     

    2. Conflicts of interest (e.g., negotiating on behalf of the seller for a sale to a company one has a stake in)

     

    3. Commodities price manipulations (e.g., GS taking control of the world's aluminum supply, then profiting from that on the futures market)

     

    4. LIBOR manipulation

     

    5. Racketeering in the muni bond markets

     

    For starters.
    17 Mar 2012, 07:52 PM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1583) | Send Message
     
    6. Running reckless leverage ratios, knowing that Ben will bail you out if it gets dicey

     

    7. Non-transparent, highly concentrated systemic derivative exposure

     

    8. Fraudulent representation of underlying assets in wildly complex securities

     

    9. Creating derivatives based on bogus correlations which are never updated
    17 Mar 2012, 08:27 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    surfer girl

     

    1. Trading frequency is a subjective arguement. 2 may be illegal depending on the buyer. 3 to 5 are illegal if are as described.

     

    You throw people in jail for breaking the law but that does not change the size of our FS market it just cleans out the bums.

     

    DV wants to right size it to his view of the world so I am waiting for that size to be articulated.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:29 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Tricky

     

    6 is to be regulated and government has the call on that ratio. 7 does not effect the size of the FI market but I agree with opaqueness being a real issue. 8 and 9 may be criminal if true as stated.

     

    These still don't change the size of the FS market with the exception of number 6.

     

    Still waiting.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:31 PM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    "Trading frequency [having no socially redeeming value] is a subjective arguement"

     

    Puhleeze! Now you're just insulting our intelligence.

     

    " 2 may be illegal depending on the buyer. 3 to 5 are illegal if are as described"

     

    So? Your question was, What has no value?

     

    The recent incident of (2) w/GS was thoroughly documented. You see anyone being hauled into court over that?

     

    Ditto for (3). Where do you see GS being hauled into court for aluminum manipulations? A whole lot of MAJOR news sources have been screaming about this one since 2010 but there has been zero enforcement. Even the oil price manipulators that were caught red-handed (Fredrickson's gang) have never been convicted because laws preventing their machinations are essentially non-existent.

     

    Sure, the DOJ is going after some big banks over (5) and there's some chit chat about maybe slapping a few wrists over (4). Nothing like closing the stable doors after the horses have been stolen, is there? And guess what, if they have to pay back anything close to what they stole, we the tax payer will have to bail them out to cover the cost of that so that the financial system doesn't lock up, shutting down all of civilization. The ONLY fix for that vicious cycle is to bust up these monstrocities passing as "banks". None of them should be so big that they create systemic risks whenever they get caught thieving.
    18 Mar 2012, 12:09 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The questions to DV were as below because he does not like the size and structure of the FS industry:

     

    "You want it to be smaller so what don't you like that you want to go away? What has no value besides our royally screwed up mortgage market which had government paws all over it for decades.

     

    Nobody is disputing that crime is not valuable which is most of the points that were listed but the lead question is around size of industry not crime. Nano second trading is subjective as you now have to argue what time window you approve.
    18 Mar 2012, 12:29 AM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    The size of the individual players in the industry combined with their integration into every aspect of society means that there can be no real prevention of nor deterrent for these sorts of crimes. I repeat, Do you see these activities being punished in any meaningful way? Are companies being put out of business for multiple crimes? Anyone in jail yet? No! Nor will there ever be any real repercussions as long as these entities are able to threaten that their demise would disrupt all of civilization. Both the problems and the ability to extort bailouts and leniency are the DIRECT result of the size and structure of the financial services players.

     

    "Nano second trading is subjective as you now have to argue what time window you approve."

     

    No I don't Apply a transaction tax, perhaps a penny a trade, and let the market sort out what's parasitical and what's beneficial.
    18 Mar 2012, 12:48 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The burden falls on the critics like you to really define the specific areas of concern and what size the FS industry should be and what should be eliminated. And what is different about FS versus say large health care or large energy companies or large media enterprise or large tech companies or large auto companies that are living off the government teat. If we don't like big industries then we have a lot of them to take down in size and we also need to know where we are going. We cycle our complaints from FS to energy to health care and so on but live in one of the richest countries in the world with the largest economy. Hmmm.

     

    Crime in any industry does not call into question if the industry is necessary or needs to be bigger or smaller. That is a different issue so quit confusing these issues.

     

    Nano second trading is much better than pico second trading. If I want to trade in a nano second why not? Free country and that is a HUGE social benefit.
    18 Mar 2012, 01:05 AM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    Now you want to use the fact that there are additional problems in the world to divert attention away from problems related to the financial sector? Funny stuff, man.

     

    As far as treating them as we do the tech giants, why sure, actually applying the existing anti-trust laws would be a good way to start. Let's do that.

     

    "Crime in any industry does not call into question if the industry is necessary or needs to be bigger or smaller."

     

    Now you're misrepresenting what I wrote, which was: Nor will there ever be any real repercussions as long as these entities are able to threaten that their demise would disrupt all of civilization. Both the problems and the ability to extort bailouts and leniency are the DIRECT result of the size and structure of the financial services players.

     

    "Free country and that is a HUGE social benefit."

     

    That is not a societal a benefit OF nanosecond trading. Remember, you were the one who asked which activities of the financial services industry do not provide value to society. That's one of them.
    18 Mar 2012, 01:54 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Hey I asked the question and you need to answer it or go away to your own little echo chamber. The question wasn't to you anyways although you bit hard like a guppy. So here it is again:

     

    You want it to be smaller so what don't you like that you want to go away? What has no value besides our royally screwed up mortgage market which had government paws all over it for decades.

     

    This may be hard to follow but you need to argue what you don't want from FS excluding crime and size of FS. You don't like nanosecond trading but you don't have any reasons beyond you don't like it so that is not much of anything to talk about.

     

    Fact is people who complain about FS just do it with high level talk with a lot of emotion. I am fine with cutting services and products. I could give a damn. But when I ask for logic for taking things away nobody has a solid list with solid rationale for removing said product or service. And people are actually buying those products and services which is why the exist in the first place.
    18 Mar 2012, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    "I asked the question and you need to answer it or go away"

     

    Always amuses me how the people who say they want a "free" society are the first ones to demand the right to dictate to others.
    19 Mar 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Surfer

     

    You are free to answer the question as posed rather than answer a question that was not asked.

     

    If you want to make up your own questions feel free to start your own post.
    19 Mar 2012, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    Funny stuff, TVP. You don't get to dictate what people may or may not say in their comments.

     

    Even funnier is that I did in fact answer your "question as posed". I presume the reason you're now changing the question is because you didn't like the answers you got. Life's so hard isn't it when you don't get to be the one giving orders.
    19 Mar 2012, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Surfer

     

    You are boring me with this poor excuse for dialogue.

     

    Later.
    19 Mar 2012, 04:53 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Thank god. For decades now we have needed to stop the flow of the wiz kids into finance and get them back into fields that produce real value for society.

     

    Now if only compensation will follow suit.

     

    For too long we have given 7-figure bonuses to scumbags trying to game the markets and screw their clients, but 4-figure bonuses to pioneers trying to cure cancer and develop cheaper/cleaner energy.

     

    It's about time we flip-flop that arrangement.
    17 Mar 2012, 10:51 AM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    d_v
    When they figure out that those pesky school loans have to be repaid and they want the mcmansion in a few years, they'll change their minds.
    If they wanted to "cure cancer and develop cheaper/cleaner energy" they wouln't have gone to get an MBA in the first place.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • avickrey
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    I am a recent MBA grad from a decent school, albeit non-ivy.

     

    I am not so sure that people seek higher education in finance only to find creative ways to put your hand in the other guy's (muppet's) pocket.

     

    Lessons learned in finance can help you contemplate key strategic decisions as they relate to your business. There were plenty of entrepreneurs and those in completely unrelated industries pursuing higher education in finance. I know that if I didn't get a masters, my career prospects would be capped - though I found the experience fulfilling even though it didn't translate to a lucrative Wall Street banking job.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Wyo, you're missing the point, putting the cart before the horse.

     

    *If* compensation structures rewarded socially useful industries like science and engineering in the first place, *then* the best and brightest would not seek MBAs but instead would pursue MSs and PhDs.

     

    It is noteworthy that even today, Wall Street heavily recruits the top technical talent, graduates with degrees in math, physics, computer science, and certain types of engineering. Rather than this already-technical talent being put to good use, it is paid grand sums to make even grander sums for the finance bosses.

     

    Greed is a constant, certainly, so it should be leveraged accordingly.

     

    But our financigarchy would fight such change tooth and nail, every step of the way, naturally.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    I hope that as your life progresses you follow your head and your heart more than you follow the money. If you do so then the money will find its way to you.
    17 Mar 2012, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > If you do so then the money will find its way to you.

     

    I've worked with a lot of high school and college students over the years and I think that is very dangerous advice, pragmatically speaking.

     

    In a perfect world, if you add VALUE then the money will find its way to you. But unfortunately the desires of many people's hearts don't necessarily trend towards adding value.

     

    Worse yet, there are parts of our society (like high finance) that do not reward the adding of value as much as they reward scamming the system to add profit (which is not the same as value).

     

    I think a better top priority is to be able to independently support yourself. Then focus on following your heart, etc, etc. :)
    17 Mar 2012, 12:20 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    Wow, you are even more cynical than I remember.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    I thought you were a conservative, Moose?

     

    Don't you rail against kids graduating college with Poetry degrees and then not being to support themselves?

     

    If most kids today followed their hearts, they would get degrees in beer, sex, video games, and weed -- a quadruple major!
    17 Mar 2012, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    DV

     

    I am LMAO at your rants. This must be your hot button topic. You are 1/2 of the comments.

     

    Now is a great time to head to Wall Street and get in on the ground floor of the next evolution of Wall Street and high finance. Spend time in London and Asia working and get ready to be the next generation of leadership.

     

    All these rants against finance are moronic. Regulators need to do their job just as they do in other industries.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    I no longer consider myself a conservative. I do not reside that far a field of middle America. I am fiscally responsible and I believe that this country needs to return to its roots but I don't want to do it at all costs. As for our children, they are responsible young adults who while they are not perfect take full personal responsibility for their actions.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    I work a lot with students, so yes, I feel particularly strongly.

     

    This is a big part of what is wrong with our culture and its rewards structures.

     

    > Now is a great time to head to Wall Street and get in on the
    > ground floor of the next evolution of Wall Street and high
    > finance.

     

    And no doubt the next evolution of Wall Street and high finance will be even more disastrous than the last.

     

    > Regulators need to do their job just as they do in other
    > industries.

     

    Indeed, but when the regulators are owned by the industries, implicitly or explicitly, what then? Click your heels together three times and say "There's no place like a meritocratic and ethical society, there's no place like a meritocratic and ethical society, there's no place like a meritocratic and ethical society...."
    17 Mar 2012, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    dv

     

    You have no idea what the next evolution of WS and finance will look like so you are speculating. My point is when people get out it is often time to get in. Don't follow the crowds.

     

    We can say regulators are owned by every industry. Mfg, energy, etc.

     

    That excuse is worn out.
    17 Mar 2012, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    Have you ever thought that the reason those schools cost so much and all the other "professions" have lost compensatory "value" in comparison to finance are due to the imbalances of our "pesky" financiers???
    17 Mar 2012, 08:05 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Rationale

     

    Have you ever thought that the relative loss of value is really due to the high leverage on a per employee basis of what they manage and the level of education they need to have to do the work? Running the largest bank now is a much more complex job than running a large bank 40 years ago. However a software engineer is doing a lot of the same work they did several decades ago albeit with better tools.

     

    You can argue if the banks should be downsized or not but that is a different debate.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:34 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    Thank you for proving everyone's point, the complexity of "running a bank" with all it's derivatives and schemes, is the problem. Please tell me what TRUE value this has added to society other than a pyramid of debt and mcmansions throughout the Hampton's...

     

    The only reason these people are so well compensated is that they create their own salaries based on skimming from their intricate ponzi scheme.
    18 Mar 2012, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    RE

     

    You only expose your bias at minimum and perhaps complete lack of logic.

     

    What value has money provided at all? Why can't we go back to stone age and just trade labor and our daughters along with their chattle. That was so much easier. We don't need anything complex. Let's just have passbook savings and cashier checks. Get rid of credit cards too and let merchants sell on credit and do it themselves. And let's not hedge anything. Let's all have naked positions because that is transparent and simple albeit stupid.

     

    Why do execs make a lot of money running a big oil company, tech company, hotel chain, grocery store, etc. What a ponzi scheme owning thousands of hotels so an executive can skim off money for his own profit and all he leaves is a lot of people with credit card debt that stayed at his hotel chain. I am offended by tech giants writing software and selling it millions of times for billions in profits at a high margin and sucking money out of every business and household. Blah, blah, blah!

     

    Any why have hospitals since that is your profession. Let's just have each doctor go out on their own and buy their own equipment, etc. Hospitals are too complex.
    18 Mar 2012, 07:17 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    I'm not in any way defending my own profession. In fact I think physicians are as bad as anyone else and anyone with a "vested interest" in their system is inherently biased. As for logic, what is logical to me is that money has to stand for something. I believe it should stand for a store of value as well as for an exchange mechanism. However, once things get a little more complex than your stone age analogy, this store of value over the years becomes dissipated through manipulations of inflation/deflation and money supply manipulated by central banks.

     

    Complexity in any system allows the wolves to "pull the wool over the eyes" of the sheep. Now if you think this is just survival of the fittest a la Darwin, then say so. Just don't come crying back to the tax payer to bail you out again...
    18 Mar 2012, 08:31 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    RE

     

    Before you overwhelm yourself with the failures of our economic model in the past 10 years you need to look at the alternatives. Not a pretty picture. And our biggest weakness is that the government is taking it over and using it for political purposes which will do major harm.

     

    I am OK with complexity that is transparent. You can argue against complexity that is not transparent and that is a good argument. Transparent complexity is manageable. The converse is not.
    18 Mar 2012, 10:05 PM Reply Like
  • Tricky
    , contributor
    Comments (1583) | Send Message
     
    I got my MBA from one of the primary Ivy League "Wall St feeder schools". Believe me, there are PLENTY of graduates who will work on Wall Street regardless of its image, as long as the money is there.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:02 AM Reply Like
  • anonymous#12
    , contributor
    Comments (552) | Send Message
     
    Wall Street is a pack of hyenas looking to devour the small guy. They only care about short term profits, if they could sell their mothers for a profit they would do it. Their greed is insatiable, disgusting and immoral.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Wrong............they will devour the big guy. Small guys are not worth doing business with.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    Just like the rest of the employers, WS will welcome the H1B's.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2542) | Send Message
     
    Another article bashing Wall St, courtesy of the NY Times. Figures from two graduating classes at one school hardly point to a trend, or a recruiting problem. If you spend $250,000 on an education, you better have a high paying job lined up afterwards, because its going to be hard to buy a house and have a family while you have to make those student loan payments for the rest of your life.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:37 AM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    Mike
    While they love to bash Wall Street, someone should ask the NY Times why they just gave their FIRED ex president a $24 Million going away present. If a Wall Street firm did likewise, it would be front page news for the times.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:41 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Wyo, I'm totally with you, but you have to take the good and the bad and hold opinions of them accordingly, and often separately.

     

    The NYT is GOOD for bashing Wall Street. Wall Street deserves all the bashing it gets, plus public canings.

     

    And yes, the NYT is BAD for giving its CEO a golden parachute. But that doesn't make their Wall Street bashing any less GOOD. Hypocritical, certainly, but no less GOOD.
    17 Mar 2012, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    Mike, wondering if you happened to take a class in B school about why A) tuition has gone up so much, and B) why most finance jobs pay such a much higher strategy? It can't be purely supply demand. Something is rotten in the state of "financialism" and our economy is no longer geared towards enterpreneurship and growth but more to rollercoaster business cycles followed by central bank money printing (to save said crony capitalism) , and thus wealth destruction for savers and enterprises. Now please tell me how Wall street is trying to correct this and I will stop bashing them.
    17 Mar 2012, 07:49 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2542) | Send Message
     
    College tuition has gone through the roof because the government made loans for college affordable to everyone. Increase in demand means upward pressure on price. Thats not b-school either, thats econ 101. Its the same thing as the housing market.

     

    As for "and B) why most finance jobs pay such a much higher strategy?", im not sure what you were trying to say, so i cant answer.

     

    And our economy has seen powerhouse corporations like apple and google in the last decade,so we do still innovate. Central bank money printing is a new thing to keep us out of Japanese style deflation, so don't pretend its the norm. No one bitched about the savers being hurt when Greenspan encouraged everyone to buy a house with teaser rate mortgages and then raised rates for 2 years. Wall Street doesn't have to fix anything, that's what D.C. is for. Corporations exist to make money, not to correct the problems that you dream up.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:03 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Rationale

     

    You are looking in the wrong direction. Not all roads lead to WS.

     

    Tuition has gone up because professors are greedy too along with the colleges as they want higher pay and newer and bigger buildings, etc. Look at the endowment of some of these schools. It is hideously large but they still want more and they go to wall street and hedge fund managers to grow it.

     

    Ugh.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:38 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    Tom and Mike, I'm not sure we disagree that much as to the problem, just how we got there. All these fancy buildings were built on cheap credit and cheap student loans. They are a waste and do not add anything to the education of the students. The schools only build more to get students and their loan money. Professors are paid a fair salary (pennies when compared to wall street) because you can't ship their jobs to India or make a software program to replace them, yet.

     

    My point is that financialism has created these bubbles, and has yet to prove any REAL value that isn't equations and inflated numbers. So, when blaming the high cost of somethings and blindly ignoring the high compensation of others is hypocritical.
    18 Mar 2012, 09:38 AM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    "professors are greedy"

     

    That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time:
    http://bit.ly/yKWhTP

     

    Administrators, otoh, routinely pull in 2x-4x more than the profs who do the actual work. Administrators are just politicians.
    18 Mar 2012, 09:48 AM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2542) | Send Message
     
    If Wall St charges too much for its services, why does every corporation in the world work with this banks? Why wouldnt they choose other banks to run their IPO's, work on their mergers and acquisitions, set up financing etc?

     

    The problem is that too many people today want everything and don't want to work for anything or pay for anything. That means no one wants to pay taxes, but everyone wants schools, healthcare, roads, airports, etc. That also means they don't want to try to understand that when a credit card offers you a $5,000 limit on a credit card with a 19% interest rate, you might as well borrow the money from a loanshark, because the interest rates are practically the same.

     

    Bubbles have been around since tulip-mania hundreds of years ago. They are a result of people ignoring risk while attempting to get rich. The big banks are making it easier for money to flow into these things, be them tulip bulbs, or tech stocks, or real estate, or gold, but that doesnt mean its the banks fault that there are willing buyers at too high of a price. Everyone should know by now that prices don't only move in one direction.

     

    Student loan debt is the next crisis, and its been created by the govt making loans too availible, and a bunch of 17 year old kids being told that spending $35,000/year for college was the American dream.
    18 Mar 2012, 10:05 AM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    Corporations work with banks because they need to make the numbers look good for their shareholders, or have nothing better to do with cash on hand. That is only part of the equation. Your second paragraph deals with the second part, the american consumer. The greed on their part combined with access to easy credit (greedy banks) created our most recent bubble. If that was the end of the story no big deal, greedy consumer looses their house/car they can't afford and greedy bank (eventually) takes a loss. Now, when greedy bank packages said loan into complex investment vehicles, this is where I have a problem. Greedy bank sells these loans to who ever they can... Do I have to keep going in paraphrasing what lead up to the near collapse of our economy in 2008?
    18 Mar 2012, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    RE

     

    Education is an industry and is plagued by the same problems as big industry although it pretends to be something more altruistic. Every industry thinks they are different but when you step back and look you see the differences fade away.

     

    Textbooks are a crime against the students and is akin to racketeering and is all related to greed.
    18 Mar 2012, 07:20 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Surfer

     

    If you don't believe professors AND the schools they work for are greedy then you are naive or just willfully stupid. Open your eyes and look as they rape the student body and then tell me they are not greedy.

     

    And sit on corporate boards, write books and do consulting for big money.
    18 Mar 2012, 07:22 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    I agree with you on this one Tomas, although I'd argue the professors have their heads too wrapped up in theories to worry about endowments and tuition. Why don't you look at the real inflators that are the administrators trying to "lure" students to their institutions with fancy gyms (climbing walls in several I have attended), multimillion dollar sports complexes, and dorms. I truly believe most professors are not in this "business" for the money. Now, if you're referring to business school and economics professors who revolve between universities, DC and Wall Street, I would still argue that their time in the universities (or DC for that matter) is not compensated nearly as much as on Wall Street. The real problem with this, is the institutional intermingling and reinforced biases of the Economic schools/Federal Governement/Wall Street cabal.
    18 Mar 2012, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    RE

     

    Education is now big business and is dominated by ever bigger budgets and ideas of how to soak students who don't have that much to begin with. Textbooks are a crime and the dragging of feet to put them online is ridiculous but they want the same revenue as in hard copies.

     

    A lot of professors don't directly want just money but indirectly they pull the same levers. They want to be in the best schools with the most publicity and managing the coolest research projects. That translates into money.
    18 Mar 2012, 10:10 PM Reply Like
  • SanDiegoNonSurfer
    , contributor
    Comments (2670) | Send Message
     
    "they rape the student body"

     

    Yes, day after day, that's all professors do is rape. One student after another...rape rape rape. I wonder what they did before Viagra???

     

    "And sit on corporate boards"

     

    No doubt because they're blackmailers too. Why else would profitable business owners invite known rapists to sit on the boards of their companies?

     

    "write books"

     

    How unseemly. How unspeakably evil. Imagine if everyone were so committed to a subject as to be willing to undertake the daunting task of writing a book about it. That would be horrible!

     

    "do consulting"

     

    Must be all that blackmail activity paying off again. Surely there can be no other reason anyone would hire a globally renowned expert as a consultant.

     

    "for big money"

     

    So that explains why every college professor owns his own private tropical island and retires at 35! Gosh, I've always wondered about that.
    19 Mar 2012, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    d_v
    Do you hate the government as much as you hate Wall Street?
    After all, it is the government who is the supplier and enabler of all that Wall Street does and doesn't do.

     

    Personally, I am sick of the government, all branches plus Ben, of providing billions to the bankers at the expense of the family on main street. We get inflation and zero interest on our meager savings while the bankers get to borrow billions at zero interest.

     

    And, it will only get worse when the unintended consequences of the deficit spending comes home to roost in the form of inflation and austerity.
    17 Mar 2012, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    You can do whatever you want to the government, Wall Street (corporations in general) will still own whatever you replace it with.

     

    I just focus on cause and effect. :)
    17 Mar 2012, 12:39 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    That does not answer the question.
    17 Mar 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    This question?

     

    >Do you hate the government as much as you hate Wall Street?

     

    Comparatively speaking, no.

     

    Though the government certainly has plenty of aspects that are hate-worthy, there's no question there.

     

    See, the government is only slightly less of a pawn than John Q. Public is. They are a little higher on the pyramid scheme, but not much.

     

    People (rightly) criticize the government for enabling much of the evils perpetrated by Wall Street, but they forget who enables the government. Politicians are not elected by votes, they are elected by dollars.

     

    Yes, it's kind of a "chicken and egg" problem, historically speaking, but at this moment, the very big chicken (Wall Street and corporations) is sitting on the comparatively small egg (government) and controlling what it does.

     

    There have been times when that was less true, but at the moment the chicken-egg influence ration is at an all-time high.

     

    People speaking with their votes does little, as those choices are illusions. You vote for the blue candidate who is owned by some corporations or the red candidate who is owned by other corporations -- with still other corporations owning them both (after all, they are so cheap!).

     

    People speaking with the dollars has a little bit more influence, but the dollars controlled by the many are dwarfed by the dollars controlled by the few.

     

    So go ahead, hate the government, but once the gov you hate is replaced by the gov you want, the corps will still have you right where they want you.
    17 Mar 2012, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    Thats better.
    Personally, I don't hate the government, just a lot of the things they do.
    And, I might add, that for me,it is not a democrat or republican thing. There is bad in both parties.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Oh come on now, you have to at least answer your own question. The suspense is killing me! :)

     

    Do you hate the government (or the things is does) more than Wall Street and corporations (or the things they do)??
    17 Mar 2012, 01:12 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    No Wall Street is evil. At least some in the government have good intentions and then nine out of ten things they touch they screw up.

     

    Corporations that make and sell things are different then Wall Street though. Sans maybe the very top execs, most in the corps are decent people trying to do the right thing.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:16 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Agree, most of the corporate badness is confined to the c-suite.

     

    And the lobbyists. :)
    17 Mar 2012, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    Wow. Some things we can actually agree on.

     

    Now lets go enjoy St. Patty Day.
    17 Mar 2012, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • Terry330
    , contributor
    Comments (867) | Send Message
     
    Several collage grads this year told me they would like to work in President Obama's second term.
    17 Mar 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7852) | Send Message
     
    Birds of a feather flock together.

     

    There won't be a second term.
    17 Mar 2012, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2542) | Send Message
     
    Hopefully those grads will be unemployed.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:06 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Terry

     

    Actually they all probably would like to work during Obama's second term but given UE I doubt they will.

     

    LOL.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:40 PM Reply Like
  • Street Instincts
    , contributor
    Comments (98) | Send Message
     
    Everyone has got their hands in someone else's pocket.

     

    Personally I blame the potato chip companies, I cannot stop eating these damn Sun Chips. We don't really need them either.

     

    Healthcare industry is no darling either. They charge $60 for an aspirin.

     

    Right now we are in the "finance is evil cycle" that we always go into after a market collapses.

     

    Personally I think finance is one of the best industries to be in. A person can make millions of dollars without creating any greenhouse gas emissions. It seems to me like the infrastructure is in place for a great amount of new engineering and social work projects financed by these new billionaires and millionaires. Instead lets hate on them for their wealth.
    17 Mar 2012, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • Josh Krause
    , contributor
    Comments (1361) | Send Message
     
    Helps when massive amounts of fraud and criminal activity are exposed and go unpunished.

     

    Adds a little zest to the soup.
    17 Mar 2012, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    You don't really need to deal with potato chip companies to have a decent quality of life. The same cannot be said of finance.

     

    Now about that aspirin.... :)
    17 Mar 2012, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • Avg Jo
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    When financial institutions "take" from all segments of the ecomony and provide little for the price, it is just another tax!!!! Little people are beginning to see the light and will communicate their displeasure on election day. Seniors will not tolerate politicians that allow "taking" from the people.
    17 Mar 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Average

     

    So you are offended that FI's take a small % of money from the economy to transact business but you are OK with government removing 30-40%?

     

    What a howler. Focus on the big numbers.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:42 PM Reply Like
  • Modernist
    , contributor
    Comments (2109) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps they are also concerned about their vulnerability to layoffs a couple years down the road.
    17 Mar 2012, 07:17 PM Reply Like
  • Rationalexuberance
    , contributor
    Comments (89) | Send Message
     
    You mean this may be the end of "financial engineers" and instead people will go back to engineering things we actually need like bridges, and energy efficient vehicles... Say it ain't so!
    17 Mar 2012, 07:40 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Rationale

     

    The Roman Empire was really good at making bridges, etc. I don't think that is anything new.

     

    And vehicles have been improving constantly in response to market needs.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:44 PM Reply Like
  • Eighthman
    , contributor
    Comments (213) | Send Message
     
    Thank you for this thread of comments. It is refreshing to see that someone on this site sees thru the Goldman Sachs 'doing God's work' nonsense.

     

    In nature, when the prey die off, the wolves die off too. That tells me what the future of Wall Street Banksters will be.
    17 Mar 2012, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2542) | Send Message
     
    You are right, there's no carnivores left in nature, so Wall Street is doomed.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:09 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Wall Street really means finance and that will never die off unless we all die off.

     

    Then I guess we will all be happy :-)
    17 Mar 2012, 11:45 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2888) | Send Message
     
    Chinese banks are earning 49% of all profits on their domestically traded A-share market.
    17 Mar 2012, 11:10 PM Reply Like
  • Nesjamag
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Students moving into sciences and engineering is very positive. If a bad image of the financial industry is part reason to this, than we should be even more grateful for the last market collapse.

     

    The brightest minds going into fields with actual productive and innovative value will ensure future growth. There is need for that right now to make up for lasting high energy prices (ridiculously low energy prices for the past 150+ years is one of the main reasons we ever got this far).

     

    Innovation is the real wealth creator. If you're smart you'll see that in the long run investors will win from more innovation.

     

    Don't worry. Eventually greed will gain ground again, banks will steal the brightest again and another market collapse will present lots of buying opportunity.
    18 Mar 2012, 06:27 AM Reply Like
  • Eighthman
    , contributor
    Comments (213) | Send Message
     
    Ah, blind to Wall Street mistakes by creating extremes of 'Straw Men'!

     

    Too Big to Fail equals Too Big to Jail. I understand (from the WSJ) that big banks are currently creating masses of fraudulent documents in regard to credit card accounts. Why? Because they demonstrated with robosigning that they are above the law, a law unto themselves - and they can buy off politicians as they need to.

     

    And the little guy? They lust to 'nickel and dime' him with fees and more. It will be sad to see wolves with bony ribs and little to eat. What do the velocity of money and interest rates tell you?

     

    And hypertrading? How does this act of financial mutual masturbation benefit an economy? It looks more like a symptom of a system in decline as big predators try to bite each other, if the sheep are few in number.
    18 Mar 2012, 08:32 AM Reply Like
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