Vanguard's Jack Bogle takes advantage of Facebook's (FB) plunge and the negative impact it's had...


Vanguard's Jack Bogle takes advantage of Facebook's (FB) plunge and the negative impact it's had on the psyche of the retail investor to hammer home the merits of index investing. Bogle says: "It all comes down to value and it all goes away from price, and avoiding IPO's and avoiding individual stocks is the best strategy for investors." (video)

From other sites
Comments (51)
  • sheeple2012
    , contributor
    Comments (203) | Send Message
     
    Translation : Listen muppets, invest in our mutual funds so we can invest in indexes for you...that's how I got to be this old and this rich without knowing my ass from my elbow about anything...
    22 May 2012, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  • goldseal5050
    , contributor
    Comments (40) | Send Message
     
    TOOSHAY...!!!! ROFL....you are so Right !!!
    22 May 2012, 08:24 PM Reply Like
  • bigg al
    , contributor
    Comments (18) | Send Message
     
    LOL sheeple!
    22 May 2012, 09:01 PM Reply Like
  • Noreika
    , contributor
    Comments (497) | Send Message
     
    Spot on translation Sheeple!
    22 May 2012, 09:09 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    A few points:

     

    1) Vanguard's ETFs are some of the lowest-cost funds out there.

     

    2) For most individual investors, low-cost index funds ARE the best strategy.

     

    3) "Investors" are not the same people as "traders". "Traders", like most of you here on SA, buy the IPO and sell on the first day, as described below. "Investors" hold stocks for a year or more. Jack Bogle is talking about investors, not traders.

     

    Remember, not everyone trades stocks all day. Some people actually add value. :)
    22 May 2012, 09:57 PM Reply Like
  • Paulo Santos
    , contributor
    Comments (33032) | Send Message
     
    I wouldn't say someone that buys in the IPO to sell 1 day later isn't an investor because of that. It's something with a solid statistical base, he'd be as much of an investor as someone relying on statistical arbitrage to put the bread in the table.
    22 May 2012, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • anonymous#12
    , contributor
    Comments (545) | Send Message
     
    I'm not going to reward Wall Street asset gatherers which profit anyway the market moves as they collect fees.

     

    I have a individual portfolio of equities, bonds and commodities. Have done pretty well. It isn't magic, it is doing the research and being alert.
    22 May 2012, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    > someone relying on statistical arbitrage to put the bread in the
    > table

     

    Which also doesn't add value. :)
    22 May 2012, 10:58 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    > It isn't magic, it is doing the research and being alert.

     

    Agreed, but many people don't have the time, the inclination, the education, or the aptitude for that -- and for those people, index funds are an excellent choice, worth every penny of the low fees.
    22 May 2012, 11:00 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    Index funds are a joke for investors also. End of story.

     

    Do I have to write more?
    22 May 2012, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • limitless
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    OBVIOUSLY Santos traded Facebook. ROFL.
    23 May 2012, 12:07 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    > Do I have to write more?

     

    Actually, yes, as you provide absolutely no supporting information for your claim.

     

    On almost any given year, an index fund will beat a majority of professional fund managers -- and most years it will beat more than three quarters of them -- all without doing research, picking stocks, using options, or attempting to time the market; all activities which typically lose money for most professional and non-professional investors alike.

     

    Dollar cost averaging into a low-cost index fund (i.e., SPY, or VOO) is hands-down one of the safest and most reliable strategies for individual investors.

     

    And statistically speaking, it is an above-average strategy for so-called professional fund managers too. :)
    23 May 2012, 05:24 AM Reply Like
  • Paulo Santos
    , contributor
    Comments (33032) | Send Message
     
    Obviously I didn't - as I said, I'd only buy it if I could get it at the IPO price, and I'd flip it in the first session if I had bought it. So the returns would have been 0-12% of I had bought (which I didn't).
    23 May 2012, 07:11 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    DV

     

    OK here is more:

     

    1. When you buy an index you buy the slow moving dogs, companies going bankrupt as well as the growth and turn around companies. Why not just buy the best?
    2. When you buy an index you really buy the performance of the largest companies in the index which really drive the index. In the case of the Nasdaq why not just buy Apple?
    3. Since 2000 if you invested in the S&P 500 index you are down in nominal terms and signficantly in real terms. You would be much farther ahead by just buying CD's.
    4. The risk weighted return is just not worth it. Or you could use VAR and then ask yourself what is the risk? You have no idea when in an index.
    5. Comparing an index against the professional fund managers is often just comparing apples to apples with different packaging. Many of them just put the money to work and churn and burn clients. Any fund manager that can actually manage risk weighted return however may be worth their salt.
    6. Index funds sell the idea that you can invest and forget about it. And they lull people to sleep that they have nothing to manage. The US is driving inflation now and depreciating our currency. Perhaps we go broke. But apparently people in index funds will be OK? If you take the other approach and say "no you have to manage" then why bother with index funds?
    7. Index funds are just another sales pitch to give me your money and it will be optimzed but if something goes wrong it is not my fault because it is an index fund.
    8. Finally index funds really only buy companies that are mature and then go public which often means the best growth years of the company are behind it. Smart money is not spending a lot of time in the index companies they are selling by that point.
    9 - 20. Please add.
    23 May 2012, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    Thank for the thorough reply! :)

     

    Naturally, I do have some disagreements...

     

    1. Depends on the index. Russell 2000 might be a bit too broad, but SPY? DIA? You'll still get a few dogs, but arguably you'd get more dogs in a hand-chosen portfolio, unless you are a better stock picker than 80% of professional fund managers...which I predict most people aren't.

     

    2. Diversification? Enron was once one of the larger components of several indexes. As Buffett says, diversification is only needed when investors don't understand what they're doing...but again, most investors don't.

     

    3. Does that back of the napkin calculation include dividends? I have not done the math, but I expect if you factor in dividends you would come out ahead since 2000, and certainly ahead over a longer period. 2000 is also kind of a loaded start date -- tech bubble and all that. :)

     

    4. I can't argue much here as I don't have risk-weighed return numbers floating around in my head; but again I wonder if you're accounting for dividends?

     

    5. This is an excellent argument /for/ index funds over mutual funds, but doesn't tell me why stock-picking is better -- thoughts?

     

    6. False equivalency fallacy. :) With index funds, you have to manage is your high level asset allocation (stocks vs. bonds vs. emerging markets, etc), where as if you're picking stocks, you must do that AND micro-manage your equity allocation to individual stocks too, requiring a LOT more time/research to manage your money in total.

     

    7. Index funds make no claim about optimization, that I am aware of. They follow the market or some segment thereof...and that's it. Yes, if something goes wrong it's never the fund owner's fault, but the same is true of any company you invest in -- it's never the CEO's fault that you made a bad investment either, unless he commits fraud...and even then he's never prosecuted. :)

     

    8. Maybe, but again, index funds beat most of that smart money almost every year. (Unless you're talking hedge funds, with have access to instruments most retail investors don't, so I'd call out of bounds on that.)

     

    My take is that, in general, sure, if you're a great investor, and you have the time and education, go ahead and pick your stocks. But most investors aren't great and don't have the time and education, so they are better off with index funds most of the time.

     

    Thanks again, I always appreciate good replies! :)
    23 May 2012, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    DV

     

    I will let other people weigh in here as I have to travel for a while but I also forgot that you cannot manage your tax events very well in the Index funds.

     

    More later.
    23 May 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • limitless
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    You don't gotta lie about it buds
    23 May 2012, 10:57 PM Reply Like
  • limitless
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    You said everyone should be a trader. Not everyone likes trading. Some people like investing.
    23 May 2012, 11:00 PM Reply Like
  • Paulo Santos
    , contributor
    Comments (33032) | Send Message
     
    If someone tells you that something has a 80% chance of success and gives out 20-30% or so in average returns per trade, would you avoid taking that trade on the grounds that "it's not investing"?

     

    That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
    24 May 2012, 05:52 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    DV

     

    So the CAGR for the S&P 500 including dividends from Jan 2000 to Dec 2011 is 50 basis points. Over the same time period the inflation rate averaged 2.53% which is arguably low but for sake of this analysis we will keep. So in real terms you lost 2.03% every year in the S&P 500 index. That would make a $1000 investment made in Jan 2000 only worth $781 by the end of 2011 in real terms. About a 22% loss.

     

    Conversely if you bought CDs at a bank with no risk your nominal return is around 1.5% to 2% over the same time period which also does not keep you ahead of inflation but it performs relatively better.

     

    At the same time in an Index fund your VAR is pretty substantial given the macro economic factors at work and on a relative basis to CDs. Taxes only complicate matters further.

     

    Summary in my mind is that index funds do not offer a good risk return relationship. A lot of this has to do with how screwed up and overleveraged our economy is with government needing a bailout through inflation. Most investment advisors also are subject to that conclusion as well as they are not really managing anything they just want a lot of assets to skim off.

     

    So index funds don't offer a solution. One strategy may be to only expose a small percentage of your investment dollars to stocks and pick out 5 to 8 growth stocks with global potential or buy some turn around stories and keep the rest of the invesment funds in CD's and/or corporate bonds with short maturities.

     

    A broader question in my mind is regardless of class do we keep our investments in the US dollars?
    24 May 2012, 09:50 AM Reply Like
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (4558) | Send Message
     
    You are assuming an index fund investor is non-diversified and in one fund only.

     

    If you want to be honest in doing such a comparison, most index fund investment advice promotes a diversification amongst US Equities, Int'l Equities, EM, Bonds, Commodities and Real Estate, while adjusting weights based on how aggressive one is.

     

    So it would really be a portfolio of 5-8 ETFs based around index funds like say EEM or BND.
    24 May 2012, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    kmi

     

    I am being fair to the arguement and I chose the S&P 500 because it is reasonably broad.

     

    The arguement was that investors don't have time or the expertise to analyze stocks. So how do they have time or expertise to analyze different sectors or countries? If you have expertise to analyze sectors or countries which means you are also making currency calls then you can likely handle stocks also.

     

    If you throw in ETF's they have another set of problems that take sophistication to navigate.
    24 May 2012, 10:21 AM Reply Like
  • jeanewight
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    I have the same question of whether we should keep our investments in US dollars. As a way of exploring possibilites, I wrote for and received an appllication for a savings account (don't offer checking) at Bank of China (NYC branch) where one can deposit one's dollars, then convert them to yuan. But they offer no interest rates at all;and one must do one's due diligence in keeping track of the currency valuations and so on.
    24 May 2012, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (4558) | Send Message
     
    "So how do they have time or expertise to analyze different sectors or countries?"

     

    My point was precisely that you don't need to be sophisticated or spend a lot of time or get that deep into it.

     

    Here is a simplified example:

     

    Say I sat over the last 12 years in a combination of the SPY, EEM, BND, GLD, IYR. At any given point one or more of them would be in decline and one or more would be defensive or in growth.

     

    Let's say over those 12 years I got a little more educated and chose QQQ for some years over SPY, or HYG over BND, or EWT over EEM.

     

    The strategy is still simple, I still don't need to be sophisticated, I'm still not stock picking, but I am adjusting very mildly in very simple ways to maximize my return. It's simplistic, and performs way better than a 100% S&P allocation.

     

    Basically, denying an index fund strategy is viable by looking -just- at the S&P is what I am disagreeing with you about.
    24 May 2012, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    kmi

     

    You are a relatively sophisticated person arguing that you are simple..........LOL. Anyways if you want to show the rough math on your hypothetical portfolio that would be interesting.

     

    Index funds from the John Bogle perspective are invest and and forget it because people are just not smart enough to know what to do with their money and they will do better than any other approach. That I don't believe. Just buy CDs and forget them is better from 2000 to 2011.
    24 May 2012, 11:09 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    Regarding the difficulty of asset allocation, there are many very simple models one can follow that is almost trivial to manage with just a handful of various ETFs, for example the Swensen model:
    http://seekingalpha.co...
    24 May 2012, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • Paulo Santos
    , contributor
    Comments (33032) | Send Message
     
    Avoiding IPOs makes no sense. Avoiding holding IPO stock after the first session, now that's something altogether different.
    22 May 2012, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • bigg al
    , contributor
    Comments (18) | Send Message
     
    Paulo - do you mean a person should buy and sell IPO on the first trading day?

     

    btw- I loved your coal piece. I would love to talk to you about an Ohio company, OXF, if you are willing.
    22 May 2012, 09:00 PM Reply Like
  • Paulo Santos
    , contributor
    Comments (33032) | Send Message
     
    Yes, if possible one should buy every IPO (if one can get allocation), and then sell in the first session. Even FB had a 0-12% return if one did that.

     

    Read this: http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    OXF seems like it will have a rough time, like most coal producers. I'll try doing a new series tomorrow on several coal producers.
    22 May 2012, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • bigg al
    , contributor
    Comments (18) | Send Message
     
    Thx Paulo. Thought that is what you meant. I have had success buying IPO's just after market open. BNNY, ET, SPLK are 3 I was able to make 10% or more on.

     

    Very good article btw. Im new to the site so I missed that piece.

     

    I am really interested in your piece on coal producers such as OXF. For the last 2 quarters, I have bought shares ahead of ex-div and been able to make some money. Was considering OXF for a long-term option....

     

    Thx !!!
    22 May 2012, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • limitless
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    You have no soul.
    23 May 2012, 12:09 AM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    , contributor
    Comments (9401) | Send Message
     
    Jack Bogle is not with The Vanguard anymore, from what I gather. He, of course, was there for many, many years and certainly knows his way around index funds.

     

    It would seem that this advice could have come from a vast number of folks in the financial world. He has made the argument for indexing over individual stock investing for years. Credit must be given to him for creating such low cost mutual funds, in my opinion.

     

    Nothing new here, move along.

     

    Where is Jon Corzine?
    22 May 2012, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4911) | Send Message
     
    deer

     

    Where is Jon Corzine? I appreciate your insistence on making this slug surface to take the heat he deserves. Maybe this is the new Where's Waldo?

     

    He is probably raising money for Obama right now.
    22 May 2012, 11:54 PM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    , contributor
    Comments (9401) | Send Message
     
    ThomasViewPoint

     

    Thank you for your comment.

     

    It seems that each day brings a new scandal that sweeps MF Global further from our thoughts. For some $2B to "vanish" is simply amazing to me, as is the fact that nobody with the powers to investigate seems to care.

     

    No doubt the connection to the President and the Democratic Party are helping Mr. Corzine remain a free man.

     

    Where is Jon Corzine?

     

    Have a great day.
    23 May 2012, 07:11 AM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    > It seems that each day brings a new scandal that sweeps
    > MF Global further from our thoughts. For some $2B to
    > "vanish" is simply amazing to me, as is the fact that nobody
    > with the powers to investigate seems to care.

     

    I think it's out of the news because they already found the funds. :)
    http://bloom.bg/LCBHUx

     

    Regardless, yes Corzine should be in jail.
    23 May 2012, 07:19 AM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    , contributor
    Comments (9401) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for the link.

     

    90% of the money has been "traced", according to the Bloomberg report. Sadly the investors have not received a cent of the missing funds. Tracing the money and returning the money are clearly two different things.

     

    The investors deserve their money back, without delay, as MF Global used client funds in an illegal fashion and lost them.

     

    Bankruptcy proceedings are dragging along. It took six months for MF Global financial data to be released. The Honorable Jon Corzine was paid $3M cash and $5.3M in stock options. Clearly the stock options are not worth anything presently, but who know what Mr. Corzine did with them prior to the collapse.

     

    Where is Jon Corzine? Last seen at a CA fundraiser. Said fundraiser was not for jilted MF Global investors

     

    Have a great evening.
    23 May 2012, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • aretailguy
    , contributor
    Comments (1911) | Send Message
     
    If Corzine raises enough money for Barry, the "Justice Dept" just might look the other way long enough for Sen/Gov Corzine to find a home for his billions in Grand Cayman or Bermuda. Just the way that crony capitalism works...
    24 May 2012, 01:08 AM Reply Like
  • noob
    , contributor
    Comments (393) | Send Message
     
    OK, I'll bite.
    What's the big wrong with large index funds/ETF's? They do seem to have slightly more stability than buying single stocks. And there are only a few thousand books written on the broad based stock diversification strategies.
    As I understand it - this broad based diversification won't beat everyone, but it's going to perform in the 95th percentile for a lot less effort. Given the trade-offs it seems to give you returns with some degree of predictability.
    Of course, past performance - blah blah blah - which may have changed everything in the last two years.

     

    So - what's *wrong* with it?
    22 May 2012, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • untrusting investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9903) | Send Message
     
    Yep for the vast majority of lazy and uninformed investors out there, which is probably most of the individual investors, index funds make a lot of sense. Of course for those individual investors willing to put in the time and effort, which is a very small minority, they maybe can outperform.
    22 May 2012, 09:44 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2278) | Send Message
     
    > vast majority of lazy and uninformed investors

     

    And more importantly, the vast majority of professional fund managers, because historically more than 85% of them fail to beat the market EVERY YEAR, so even they would have been better off simply buying low-cost index funds.
    22 May 2012, 11:16 PM Reply Like
  • jeanewight
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    I took upon myself to manage my own (almost exclusively stocks-1 index fund) portfolio having had absolutely NO previous knowledge or experience; (It was inherited.) it's by far the hardest thing I have ever attempted to learn or do. NO QUESTION. I keep vaccilating (sp?) between thinking about hiring an advisor; selling them all and buying index funds, and keep on bumbling through on my own. For the time being I have time so I am reading/studying and doing the best I can. I think investing is not for the faint of heart.
    22 May 2012, 10:43 PM Reply Like
  • aretailguy
    , contributor
    Comments (1911) | Send Message
     
    Buying index funds is not a bad idea. You will occasionally own Enron, GlobalCrossing, AIG, GM and any number of companies that end of with a zero net worth. I would strongly advise against so called "advisors". They will either charge significant load on poor fund choices or they will put you in bad individual stocks. You can do much better by doing your homework here at SeekingAlpha and several other web sites (MotleyFool is also good). There are several SA authors that are extremely good. Many times I will have to look at several recommendations before I find one that worries me. My suggestion would be to create a "test" portfolio based on certain authors reccomendations and watch those for 3-6 months and backtest to see who you like to follow. The number one mistake individual investors make is buying when the market is high. You MUST buy when the market is tanking and you MUST sell at least a little when the market is high. The one other suggestion is to NEVER buy an entire position all at once. If you want 100 shares of CVX, buy 25 when the price seems good and watch and wait. Buy some more on the next dip. Nobody can time markets with any degree of success. Buy high quality at good prices.
    23 May 2012, 12:09 AM Reply Like
  • jeanewight
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    very good advice (Thanks.).....I think I am going to have "Sell high, buy low" tattooed on my body as a daily reminder.
    23 May 2012, 12:59 AM Reply Like
  • ogd
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    Just buy index funds Jeane. There is no better advice. What makes you think you've got the chops to beat more than half of the professional dollars, on your own? With index funds, you will, and it's guaranteed.

     

    And that "investing is not for the faint of heart" -- that's the volatility of single stocks eating away at you. With well-diversified funds, that volatility goes away and all you're left with is the intrinsic market volatility, which you can't do anything about (at least, anything that you'd be right about more than wrong), so you can stop worrying about it. Save your time -- and tattoo space -- for something worthy in life.
    23 May 2012, 02:34 AM Reply Like
  • jeanewight
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    Thank-you for your thoughts....Yeah, I can see all this eating away at my time and mental well-being for what? I absolutely do not think I can beat the professionals. It's just that a professional set this portfolio up with over 30 stocks weighted against the S&P 500 and devised in such a way as to minimize/defer taxes; I am tentative about messing with it and afraid-or at least wary- of (capital gains) taxes. I have made some changes, though, not sweeping changes but setting a larger goal and advancing toward it incrementally. I really do like and strongly agree with your point about index funds.
    23 May 2012, 07:08 AM Reply Like
  • ogd
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    Yes, taxes are the one thing that the average investor can do something about. If you do have large capital gains (a good position to be in, don't you think?), then deferring and earning income on that 15% tax bill might be the one reason to stay put. It sounds like you're doing the right thing exchanging slowly out of it. A market slump like the current one is a good time to do some of that. The other thing to keep in mind is that the cap gains rate might be going up to 20% after this year.

     

    Going forward, a broad market fund like VTI / VTSAX is one of the most tax-efficient stock investments available. You basically never pay cap gains.

     

    Good luck and enjoy your eventual worry-freedom :)
    23 May 2012, 12:52 PM Reply Like
  • jeanewight
    , contributor
    Comments (344) | Send Message
     
    Thanks so much for your suggestions; I so appreciate the input. With the increase in cap gains likely, as you say, I may close out positions in several stocks this year (as opposed to waiting until next year or beyond), pay the lesser 15% cap gains tax, and take up your suggestion of investing in VTI or VTSAX.
    24 May 2012, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS-2.0
    , contributor
    Comments (528) | Send Message
     
    And,

     

    What would his indices be based on if nobody ever bought , or owned, any individual names?

     

    Time for the old Gheezer to retire.
    22 May 2012, 11:45 PM Reply Like
  • Bearsrally08
    , contributor
    Comments (175) | Send Message
     
    "avoiding individual stocks is the best strategy for investors." How do you respond to such an idiotic statement. I guess it depends on your definition of investor. Bogle pumping index funds is similar to our old friend T.Boone Pickens pumping up oil & natgas issues. I did not build up my portfolio by investing in index funds or ETFs. Granted it's not for weak willed especially the past 10 years.
    23 May 2012, 12:54 AM Reply Like
  • wald22
    , contributor
    Comments (402) | Send Message
     
    Volatility breeds speculation. We are in a bear market, so it is best to avoid stocks all together. Buy a good index fund that is short the market. We no longer have a stock market. What we have is a casino where the 1% take from the 99%.
    23 May 2012, 05:58 AM Reply Like
  • remurraymd
    , contributor
    Comments (2274) | Send Message
     
    Sadly Vogle has become a shill for Vangard Budget Index funds for the clueless we follow Peter Lynch "One Up on Wall Street" and have done well.(FB) was a classic "pump and dump" scheme "flippers" almost always get burned stay away. Folks who break out fifth grade math fundamental analysis skills can still pick growth dividenders of quality diversify into A FEW of quality and outperform indices by hundreds of percent over the last decade.We have for our clients. (http://bit.ly/pFSoX2) (http://bit.ly/ISkKzS) (http://bit.ly/IIcNQc) (http://bit.ly/zgclHA) to name but a few for our clients.Always good for us to buffer with 20% Gold of some sort for safety and 5% goes into a spec (http://bit.ly/JbJWmX) (http://bit.ly/I2oi2V) (http://bit.ly/nizUqy) for us since 2002. We like and will enter (http://bit.ly/zmUlk5) as a spec after employee lock up tax selling makes entry valuation attractive perhaps 35-50% lower than here.We think folks who got in too high can sell covered calls cash secure puts deep out of the money and gradually decrease their base and get their money back.All is not lost and one does not have to take a loss.But a lesson can be learned APD
    23 May 2012, 06:25 AM Reply Like
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)
ETF Hub
ETF Screener: Search and filter by asset class, strategy, theme, performance, yield, and much more
ETF Performance: View ETF performance across key asset classes and investing themes
ETF Investing Guide: Learn how to build and manage a well-diversified, low cost ETF portfolio
ETF Selector: An explanation of how to select and use ETFs