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Twelve global banks publicly linked to the Libor scandal face as much as $22B in combined...

Twelve global banks publicly linked to the Libor scandal face as much as $22B in combined regulatory penalties and damages to investors and counterparties, according to admittedly "crude" Morgan Stanley estimates. The calculation excludes the potential fallout from ongoing U.S. and EU cartel investigations, which could result in multibillion-dollar fines.
Comments (32)
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (9319) | Send Message
     
    Ah litigation....more non productivity for our economy...
    13 Jul 2012, 04:11 AM Reply Like
  • Ray Lopez
    , contributor
    Comments (1508) | Send Message
     
    Serves them right. Here is an instance of tort lawyers doing good, not unlike those civil rights lawyers in the 60s. I'm against frivolous lawsuits but this is not one of them: one of the key assumptions behind the 2008 US bailouts by Hank Paulson was that Libor was so low for so long (fixed, we now know) then it shot up in September 2008. This was a false signal. In fact, credit default swap rates peaked in the spring of 2009, proving that the US should not have bailout out anybody in the fall of 2008.
    13 Jul 2012, 03:34 PM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    Excellent observations it is getting traction at last that it was Paulson's connections to his former bank and the fear in Bush's face that caused this long lasting meltdown and I predicted it would last eight years but UK government is on the brink of failure so it might go on for another 10 years.
    15 Jul 2012, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • MexCom
    , contributor
    Comments (3050) | Send Message
     
    Jesus comes to the temple!
    13 Jul 2012, 06:34 AM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    Agreed but not soon enough for me.
    15 Jul 2012, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    These fines dont assist clients who lost their life's savings. These thieves should be fined TRILLIONS not pocket change.

     

    For Example Bank of America robo signing foreclosures considered a bit naughty ITS A CRIME TO FORGE A SIGNATURE!!!

     

    Bank of America foreclosing on a home that not only did they never have any lien on but wasn't even mortgaged.

     

    COME ON OBAMA close the crooks down.

     

    Bank of America currently has 45 trillion in optiond derivative bets. Hope they lose the lot!!!

     

    Seeking Alpha stop pumping BoA its a crap worthless stock

     

    I think you are invested in it and you cannot sell at 75% loss. and are trying to do a DATEK online investing against clients un used money. FOR SHAME!
    13 Jul 2012, 09:13 AM Reply Like
  • green_valley
    , contributor
    Comments (43) | Send Message
     
    Robo signing. That's forgery. In Japan the CEO would be forced to resign. In China he would be hung. In the US, he blames the economy and scams the overdraft charges, and makes himself a hero. lol
    13 Jul 2012, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    In the eyes of these bankers greed is not only good it is vital Time to remove our business in the billions of customers. In Uk Barclays are losing and have already lost millions of their customers who simply have

     

    HAD ENOUGH!
    15 Jul 2012, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • thotdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (1417) | Send Message
     
    I'm just so shocked that the smartest and best would shirk their fiduciary responsibilities.
    13 Jul 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • Eighthman
    , contributor
    Comments (212) | Send Message
     
    Ah, CronyLand - where the rich and powerful never go to jail and the fines are low enough to be a cost of doing business.

     

    Fraud? Lying? Cheating? Hey, Youse didn't see nuthin'. Move along.

     

    How can anyone with any brains at all invest in these markets, knowing that the TBTF banks can do anything and get away with it?
    13 Jul 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • Whitehawk
    , contributor
    Comments (3129) | Send Message
     
    This "scandal" is old news...Libor "adjustments" were an issue back in 2007 and very much in the media then. Counterparty risk was a major factor in seizing credit markets, and that contributed to the toppling of a number of financials. So one has to ask why the recent enmity on the issue after all this time? Perhaps a diversion from the current plethora of market manipulation, most specifically from central banks.
    13 Jul 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • Jeremy Johnson, CFA
    , contributor
    Comments (778) | Send Message
     
    An excuse for continued financial repression?
    13 Jul 2012, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Ray Lopez
    , contributor
    Comments (1508) | Send Message
     
    Or perhaps more simply: nobody paid much attention then, when the economy was better. That was then, this is now. It's payback time now. Prepare for jail, banksters. And when the fiat money economies of Japan, EU (Ger, Fr), and the US default (China, Greece, etc will have defaulted before then) you can be sure central bankers will be scapegoats. Hopefully out of the ashes we can return to a fixed money supply and exchange rate aka gold standard.
    13 Jul 2012, 03:37 PM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    It has all been a long investigation and has come to the light of day because of the presidential elections. Nitt Romney is a venture corporate raider capitalist the very essence of what has caused this meltdown . I dont believe there are many citizens investing in markets it is just the Banks and companies connected to the fall out and they are going DOWN.
    15 Jul 2012, 08:48 AM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4009) | Send Message
     
    The banks are convenient fall guys for the biggest manipulator of them all- the FED.
    13 Jul 2012, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • green_valley
    , contributor
    Comments (43) | Send Message
     
    The FED are the banks. So they bailed themselves out using the US Treasury money, the people's purse.
    15 Jul 2012, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • scabalqu
    , contributor
    Comments (264) | Send Message
     
    You would think that EVERYONE in the US would be glad that that someone is going to be found accountable and responsible for this Libor scandal.

     

    Instead, we see this as a "polarizing" issue between the left and right, and between the "wrong" and "right" moral compass.

     

    What is the next generation learning from us? Is ethics too expensive?

     

    Has America degraded so much that "GREED IS GOOD" (e.g. 1987 "Wall Street" movie)? Deflect and blame it on someone else... Pathetic.

     

    Shame, shame, shame.
    13 Jul 2012, 08:21 PM Reply Like
  • Eighthman
    , contributor
    Comments (212) | Send Message
     
    It is a real tragedy that lawsuits and ambulance chasers are the only defense remaining against these corrupt overlords of finance. This situation exists because of the continuing failure of regulatory agencies to do their jobs.
    14 Jul 2012, 09:36 AM Reply Like
  • scabalqu
    , contributor
    Comments (264) | Send Message
     
    @8thmam. very astute with your observation about our regulatory agencies. let me elaborate...

     

    How to Destroy America in 3 easy steps:

     

    Step 1) congress sharply curtails the budget of our regulatory agencies (e.g. SEC, EPA, etc)

     

    Step 2) congress melodramatically lament and scream in US media that our regulators are not doing their jobs. people are outraged. media frenzy. yeah.

     

    Step 3) congress installs watchdogs (or lapdogs) over these agencies that can influence or delay any ongoing or future civil (or criminal) investigations that does not meet their political agendas. LOL.

     

    Lessons learned: Sick but true -- whoever has the gold makes the rules.

     

    In conclusion, american people no longer have the power over their own. I weep for our children and the next generation

     

    checkmate. done. see you on the other side.
    .
    14 Jul 2012, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    If you remember we once had a new and very active SEC but Mt Bush was convinced by Wall Treet to pink slip him and replace him with one of their own. About that time Suntrust grited me out of $30,000 I took it to SEC FBI and banking regulators but they had blinders on and would not do anything For that reason I recommend everyone of my family and friends to get away from Banks especially J P m and Bank of America take your cash and run. In addition switch all your investments to cash if possible this is going to get a lot worse.
    15 Jul 2012, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • Eighthman
    , contributor
    Comments (212) | Send Message
     
    Here's another trick done by our government: Make an example of little, defenseless people while allowing the rich and powerful to evade prosecution completely. This way, it maintains the facade of law enforcement while allowing the Privileged to do as they wish.

     

    Examples? The FDA sends out thugs to persecute people for minor infractions about vitamin sales while convicting major drug companies of a Misdemeanor and fine (less than profit) for blatant illegality.

     

    The TBTF banks commit open, obvious document fraud and nothing is done. Corzine presides over theft of customer money and nothing is done. Geithner fails to pay his taxes while little guys get prosecuted.
    14 Jul 2012, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    Today on TV announces the conclusion of a massive PILL MILL operation many doctors in the frame I cant wait to see what happens to billionaire doctors this election.
    15 Jul 2012, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • scabalqu
    , contributor
    Comments (264) | Send Message
     
    The big pharma can afford lobbyist groups to assist them with either hiding the truth, changing the laws and/or scuttling the problems.

     

    A movie called "Erin Brockovich" in 2000 was inspiring when I read about things like this. Fortunately for her, she had the financial incentive, the she some background in law, plus it was her job.

     

    If you truly believe that the government did you wrong, go after them -- and enlist the help of CHANGE.ORG, or your congress person (if you live in US.)

     

    Good luck. And keep me updated on your effort.

     

    If you need any help, let me know too. I can sign your petition.
    14 Jul 2012, 08:37 PM Reply Like
  • Losing Paper While Gaining ...
    , contributor
    Comments (497) | Send Message
     
    Won't matter, they'll get 22B and more back in the next batch of bailouts.
    15 Jul 2012, 01:57 AM Reply Like
  • onewhatsbeendonebefore
    , contributor
    Comments (145) | Send Message
     
    This LIBOR scandal is growing all the time UK has only attached itself to the USA investigation because of its weak Conservative elitist government. Bank of England are also in the frame it seems. So everyone who has a mortgage savings in cash loans is urged to contact their banks for substantial compensation.

     

    I have already started and the denials are flooding in . It wont put me off I am going for gold and so should everyone That my friends is how we scare the Banksters into surrender nothing else will.
    15 Jul 2012, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • msphar
    , contributor
    Comments (156) | Send Message
     
    Wow, just wow! The bitterness towards the banks is certainly amazing. This string of comments read like a series of Occupy Wall Street cheers.

     

    At some point the pendulum ought to swing a little bit back in the other direction. I'm looking forward to some corresponding stock price recovery.
    15 Jul 2012, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • scabalqu
    , contributor
    Comments (264) | Send Message
     
    @msphar: I'm open to new ideas and perspective... I'm going to assume that you're in the banking/financial sector.

     

    3 questions:

     

    1) From your perspective, what should we do about the libor-scandal?

     

    2) Should the groups responsible for the libor-scandal be penalized?

     

    3) Lastly, if wall-street is against regulations, what can american people do about financial abuse such as insider trading, ponzi schemes, MF-Global, etc.

     

    Just trying to understand and bring the pendulum back to the center of the conversation by using civil and calm discussions.

     

    Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
    15 Jul 2012, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • msphar
    , contributor
    Comments (156) | Send Message
     
    I am pretty much an amateur in the banking sector. I've just piled into BAC with the hopes that it will recover some over time, in contrast with the strident and numerous calls for failing the big banks.

     

    I certainly can't speak with any authoritative opinion about manipulation of the Libor index. I have had several mortgages over the years and one or two of them had a Libor index as the interest setting rate. In all those transactions I never felt like I was in control of selecting the interest rate and the teaser rates that lured me in never seem to materialize in the end result, So I just ignored the issue and pressed on with my immediate goal of buying some property. I don't blame the bank or the mortgage broker. I was a big boy and knew what I wanted and in most cases got close enough to my goal to be okay.

     

    As a shareholder I don't look to punish the TBTF banks, instead I'd like to see BAC reestablishing their dividend. A penny is a pretty small dividend although I am not adverse to picking up the pennies that I see discarded near the gas pump or in the parking lot as I always remember my grandmother saying take care of the pennies and the dollars will take care of you, a wise old woman who died in 1979.
    16 Jul 2012, 12:08 AM Reply Like
  • scabalqu
    , contributor
    Comments (264) | Send Message
     
    @msphar:

     

    over 25+ years ago (e.g. 1987), I dabbled in financing commercial and private properties using "libor-indexed" rates. usually, the rates were "libor+9" for hard-money or stressed properties.

     

    your right -- a lot of my customers didn't care about the rates. all they cared about was getting the financing they needed to survive. they were "big boys". and I wasn't holding a gun to their head when they is signed the finance contracts.

     

    but let me tell you though -- we took advantage of people's desperation and their dire financial needs. we could have sold them "prime+9" but sold them "libor+9" (with higher commissions, bonus). some of these individuals didn't know the difference. ignorance was truly bliss, for the broker.

     

    I don't know how long "libor" has been manipulated, but someone has been profiting nicely from libor rates for a long time.

     

    and as a "libor" customer yourself, you were happy because you got close to your goal. your finance guy got a good commission too. smile, you have just been taken for a ride.
    16 Jul 2012, 01:18 AM Reply Like
  • msphar
    , contributor
    Comments (156) | Send Message
     
    1987 would have been a good time to buy the house in the neighborhood where we eventually bought in 1989. Unfortunately we weren't shopping for one at that time. In any case the house we bought in 1989, we sold in 2008. Perhaps we were taken for a ride on that buy-in transaction but it was overshadowed by the 190% gain in equity over the 19 years that we maintained that position and whatever loans were in place. So it turned into a win-win-lose deal. With the loser being the buyer in 2008, but who can say, maybe they will eventually be winners as well. We all go for rides. That is what life is all about. Some rides are more memorable than others.
    16 Jul 2012, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • Losing Paper While Gaining ...
    , contributor
    Comments (497) | Send Message
     
    If I remember correctly, after the depression it wasn't until the mid to late 40s when house prices recovered to their previous levels, and that was with inflation too.

     

    Winners? Probably not.
    16 Jul 2012, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • msphar
    , contributor
    Comments (156) | Send Message
     
    With houses 15 to 20 years is a reasonable expectation. I just checked their house value on Zillow and it is only 8% below what they paid us for it in 2008. They won't have to wait 20 years or 15 years probably not even 10 years. 5 years is more like it. Of course that was in a desirable part of Santa Clara, California where fixer uppers are price to the absurd. So I will grant you it is an unusual situation and not the norm.

     

    The house we bought with our equity is down over 40% So we are probably in the 15 to 20 years situation. I'm not sure I will be alive in 15 to 20 years. I certainly hope so, but life is unpredictable and I will be in my early 80s. Knock on wood.
    17 Jul 2012, 01:21 AM Reply Like
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