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If you think Jamie Dimon (JPM) can't end up like Barclays' Bob Diamond, think again, says...

If you think Jamie Dimon (JPM) can't end up like Barclays' Bob Diamond, think again, says Jonathan Weil. The fact that JPMorgan only decided on Thursday to restate Q1 results shows that Dimon still hadn't grasped how internal controls are failing him and the company.
Comments (83)
    14 Jul 2012, 08:28 AM Reply Like
  • Not all diamonds are created equally ! Bob Diamond was an American in a foreign country and he didn't have the ability to own a large enough share of the English Government ! Where as Jamie D has enough invested to have a bunch clearly in his pocket. Didn't you see the luv during the Senate grilling !


    PS I have screamed for him to go for 2 years. The US is death !
    14 Jul 2012, 08:31 AM Reply Like
  • Money changers in the Temple. Who'd a thunk it?
    14 Jul 2012, 10:12 AM Reply Like
  • DaLatin
    Didn't you see the luv during the Senate grilling !
    Why senate ?
    He is not government employee and he is not in baseball business.
    He runs company for profit, they run non profit organization with $1T loss.
    They don't compete


    Bob Diamond ?
    Is there appearance of misconduct committed by Jamie D's company
    What is in common except letter D in their last name
    14 Jul 2012, 06:54 PM Reply Like
  • Yessssssssss. And, Dimon is clearly not telling the truth ! His firm is also commiting the bigest no no against thier clients and steering them in to JPM products ! That is what let US big brokers almost take down the entire world financial system in the packaged mortgage paper fiasco. That forced the FED to illegally bail out banks and companies all around the world with trillions of dollars ! We know this only because of the Supreme Court case forced the FED to publish the info years after the fact.


    Remember JPM and it's buddies were brokers not banks ! In order to save them they had to convert into banks so they could receive billions to buy each other up and save the pensions and parachutes !That is what TARP really was about ! Cleary ! Follow the money ! Dimon may be fooling the sheep,but,not the many with a brain !
    14 Jul 2012, 07:21 PM Reply Like
  • DaLatin


    Usually you and I agree but I need to hop in on this thread as you are spreading the butter liberally.


    JPMC was always a bank so let's not confuse them with GS, Merrill, Bear, Lehman, etc. The movement of those surviving players like GS to take on bank charters was directed/encouraged by Geithner, Bernanke and Paulson as they needed to prevent more FS company failures regardless of charter and because many of these players did not have bank charters they could not borrow from the Fed directly or be helped very easily. It was too late for Bear and Lehman but the government was trying to prevent more failures.


    Of all the players JPMC had the best balance sheet although BofA was in decent shape although they ruined it by taking on Country Wide. Massively stupid.


    Finally JPMC had very little exposure or activity in housing until they were asked to take on Bear and WAMU.
    14 Jul 2012, 09:50 PM Reply Like
  • DaLatin
    Yessssssssss. And, Dimon is .........................
    big yesssssss can't hide the absence of substance
    15 Jul 2012, 12:57 AM Reply Like
  • TVP...The reason JPM took money on Bear & WAMU and all those other industry takeovers was for the reason I stated.Dimon's comments that he did it as a favor are ridiculous ! JPM had major clients worldwide that needed funding asap as Ben B said as he defended the funds used outside the US. All those moves were not part of "thee" TARP plan as it was set up.


    That was not the way the Congress had negotiated it when Paulson went to them.I forget the bunch of brokers JMP acquired over the years,but, their hands were not clean.


    And, even after this 5% move the stock price has been dead money compared to many other symbols over the decade ! That is a fact ! So, JPM for the millions of long term holders has been a poor hold ! Also, the US dollar has devalued as I stated ! So, for most holding JPM for 10 years it's been a lousy investment!


    Consider this. I don't live in the US and I have recently used Costa Rica's largest credit union to set up CDs for the great grandkids for there college use. There 5 year CDs as I am trying to time there need. The face rate is 14.25% and by rolling it without monthly payouts the yield is 20%.. The money doubles at 5 years, So, for virtually no risk the money doubles in that time and compare that to owning JPM........ Not ! Not in any way shape or form !


    Excuse me,but, I managed client funds for decades and for the risk of owning a stock JPM and at current value has been a horrible hold ! To me this is a fact !
    Not speculation !


    I understand that the market has been in a horrific down patch,but, the folks who were with my old firm they did not hold on the way down and were put in during the capitulation and have done very well over the last 3 years ! Very well !


    There were great stocks over the last decade and even a WMT has added 50% in value while paying a dividend ! Not JPM !


    And, you always deserve respect and an answer. The whack jobs who say there is no substance ! NOT ! DL
    15 Jul 2012, 03:58 AM Reply Like
  • One last mention ! In 2006 the CD yields were much higher do to the stronger US dollar. It was 17 to 18%. It has gone down as the USD/Col is at the strongets rate in 2 years against the dollar. So, the CDs I opened in 2006 have yielded over 30% without rolling ! Just case you want to compare time to time !
    15 Jul 2012, 04:27 AM Reply Like
  • DaLatin


    Anyone taking on a troubled firm in 2008 needed subsidies or they were in fact giving away capital. BAC is the case study with respect to their taking on CW. Borrowing from the Fed if necessary for liquidity is a separate function and issue.


    US stocks in general have been dead money for a decade so why bother nit picking on JPM? And the Fed is driving our interest rates here in the US as they try to keep the debt service load of the Federal Government as low as possible.
    15 Jul 2012, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • Why ? This thread is JPM ! I have surly nit picked other symbols ( especially JNJ as they are a defense law firm that happens to make shoddy many dangerous medical products IMHO ) and praised some that have been great holds over the decade ! And, as we all know timing is life in the current game. BAC and C are terrible,but, when C hit 98 cents I was there until 5.08. When BAC hit 4.95 I was there and at 11 I was gone.. I still play and am there when all are going one way I step in.


    It is clear to me and many others who follow as well that those takeovers were never about saving the symbols,but, the players controlling those symbols ! The facts are too strong.. Only lamb I saw was Paulson's own brother ! But, who knows what has been done to help him ! DL
    15 Jul 2012, 09:47 AM Reply Like
  • DaLatin


    My point is that your rhetoric around JPM is that they have unique performance to the downside. That is not valid as compared to peers and the S&P in general. If Dimon should go on performance issues then most all of the public companies have the same issue and they should all go.


    I am not sure what you are saying on your second point with respect to "the facts are too strong."
    15 Jul 2012, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • "the facts are too strong" means that 11,000+ banksters were saved by TARP scam and FED efforts to ship trillions overseas. The takeovers & buyouts lasted until the group got paid and retired or were resituated. Then the banks were dismantled. This was a GS/Gov engineered deal from the very top and AIG bail was for GS totally too keep things flowing until it could all be setup ....


    My old firm now has a large bunch as clients and I/we know from horses mouths ! Dimon was major player and saving Lehman was not in GS or JPM's interest. Less pie to split !
    15 Jul 2012, 06:33 PM Reply Like
  • What DL is saying is that 11,000 big pensions and golden parachutes were paid out to the upper crust and then those institutions were absorbed an shut down. That is why there is so much pressure by millions towards banks and led to the OWS b/s.. And, Dimon is in the thick of it all and knows where all of the skeletons are. That is why he is still there !And, best for him to go !


    "the facts are too strong." That is what my uncle is saying and he/we know first hand ! These are facts we know not suspicions !


    15 Jul 2012, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • DL


    I have been in banking almost my entire life and have worked with most of these banks. I have also read a ton of the documents and books that came out afterwards and also talked to people in these FI's. What you are saying does not synch up with all those conversations nor does all of it make business sense.


    I can see Dimon and I know Dimon did not want to save Lehman but nobody wanted to save Lehman because they were a bunch of pricks. They gave everyone the finger during the LTC problem years before. Lehman burned those bridges when everyone else needed help and they had no bridge to cross when they needed it.


    Bear and Wamu were dumb you know what. AIG bailout was for more than GS by a long shot. AIG was guaranteeing everything for everyone and nobody knew what their total exposure was. And on the other side of the house AIG was insuring peoples' homes and businesses, etc. If AIG would have went down it would have been a spectacular explosion. I can't even summarize the damage it would have been so big.
    15 Jul 2012, 11:05 PM Reply Like
  • TVP, I'm no spring chicken and this business has been my life for 70 years ! If I disclosed all and the Foundation's all I'd be on" that" list !


    I understand who & what AIG was all about 100% I also know that the 40 billion was only a third of what AIG received and that was just the spoken amount.That money was never in AIG's hands.It was a direct payment to GS to reduce AIGs debt to GS.. I respect you banking ties and the years there,but,if you don't know about these things then your JUST NOT IN THE KNOW ! That money was directed by the Sec.of the Treasury who had a mega amount of his aka blind trust in his former company. And, we all know how high up he was there. And, we all know all the other Gov.big wigs had mega amounts tied up in GS. Saving AIG as too big to fail was a convenient talking point and now it's the cliche used for anything an everything.


    It was b/s then and b/s NOW. Respectfully ......DL
    16 Jul 2012, 05:00 AM Reply Like
  • DaLatin


    You got me on 70 years but I am not complaining. LOL And I am close to retirement so I have paid my dues and seen a lot.


    I spent a lot of my time in NYC in lower Manhattan and Midtown. I am in the flow of these conversations. I have met many of the people at these FI's from staff employees to middle management all the way to the top. I understand money never being handled by AIG they had obligations all over that the US taxpayer was picking up for them in return for equity. Why give them the money to handle they were a mess and close to bankrupt.


    The conspiracy theories live on forever and they typically have some thread of truth whether perceived or real and that is what gives them the feel of authenticity to people who want to believe. However when it takes a massive conspiracy putting together enemies on the same page to pull it off and maintain secrecy then it loses weight.


    Believe it or not.
    16 Jul 2012, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • TMV..Actually not conspiracy.. At our last count 53 AIG subsidiaries around planet got major help from FED.. We only heard about the 40 billion headline number. What tempered all the speak was all the markets plummeting and the 3 years it took Bloomberg an Fox to suit all the way to the Supreme Court to force the Fed to release that info.


    By the time that happened the market had climbed 3000 points and who cared We did ! And, that is why I will post until I'm gone..


    PS Don't know if you knew Barton Biggs,but,they just said he's gone. He was a good honest egg ! Seeing all the old friends going .. Time sucks ! pura vida,, DL
    16 Jul 2012, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • DaLatin


    Don't you go! Hang around a while there are still some good laughs left in this crazy world. Even better if you have family.


    I did not know Barton but did see him on TV a number of times. He was easy to listen to as his style was thoughtful and came from a deeper place than most people.
    16 Jul 2012, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • Ahhh, here is this minutes JPM headline !


    Like I was referring too. Not just the CIO trades.. or Libor issues,but, this one really gets my goat ! The client comes first and JPM was so desperate for the bottom line they steered clients. This comes from the top and this drives home my point. If this suit is successful or they settle many more will come and they should....Just keep saying DL!
    16 Jul 2012, 02:01 PM Reply Like
  • If they did they deserve to pay for it. Good luck to all.
    16 Jul 2012, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • What? Jamie Dimon is not the smartest person in the room at JPM?
    This is shocking news, indeed.


    Mr. Dimon needs to step up and "take one for the team." How many more folks need to resign at JPM before the man in charge finally takes some responsibility for what is happening under his watch?
    14 Jul 2012, 08:32 AM Reply Like
  • Who else would you rather have in charge? I've yet to hear anyone suggest a possible replacement.
    14 Jul 2012, 11:05 AM Reply Like
  • Free Bernie Madoff.
    14 Jul 2012, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    How many more folks need to resign at JPM before the man in charge finally takes some responsibility for what is happening under his watch?
    resign is not necessarily means taking responsibility
    in some cases, resign meas escaping responsibility


    his responsibility is to fire wrong and retain right
    if he does it not
    14 Jul 2012, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • How about splitting up the "bank", then we can get a couple people in charge of the different entities. And at the same time we'll eliminate a TBTF, err......I mean TBFTB (too big for their britches) bank.
    14 Jul 2012, 11:47 PM Reply Like
  • Bloomberg reports that Ohio's AG has filed a lawsuit against JPM over the "Whale Fraud" which has cost JPM some $5B (and counting). Ohio pension funds lost $27.5M dollars and the state is taking the lead in lawsuit due to the "size of the losses."


    Ohio is looking to lead class-action taken by Louisiana against JPM. Oregon, Arkansas, and a Swedish pension fund are seeking to join the Louisiana lawsuit.


    The next time you read that JPM did not lose investor money in the derivatives loss, think again.


    The next time you read that JPM CEO Jamie Dimon is one the best and brightest CEO's in the financial world, think again.


    Where is Jon Corzine and where are the class-action lawsuits against MF Global?
    15 Jul 2012, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • Here are some suggestions for a replacement for Jamie Dimon. I took the names from INSEAD's global ranking of CEO's. I only focused on the Financial sector for these names. JPM's Jamie Dimon did not crack the top 200. That is correct. In survey that measured three (3) metrics, Mr. Dimon did not make the top 200.


    The rankings can be found at:


    The three metrics were: Industry adjusted total shareholder return (TSR), Country adjusted TRS, and Change in market capitalisation.


    1. Gordon Nixon- Royal Bank of Canada
    2. RA Eung Chan- Shinhan Financial- S. Korea
    3. Craig Donohoe- CME Group- US
    4. David Simon- Simon Property Group- US
    5. R. Sridhar- Shriram Financial- India
    6. Ronald Hermance, Jr.- Hudson City Bankcorp- US
    7. Pete Lowy- Westfield Group- Austrailia
    8. Steven Lowy- Westfield Group- Austrailia
    9. Alessandro Profumo- Unicredit- Italy
    10. Jean-Philippe Thierry- Allianz- France
    15 Jul 2012, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols


    Here are some suggestions for a replacement for Jamie Dimon. I took the names from INSEAD's global ranking of CEO's. I only focused on the Financial sector for these names. JPM's Jamie Dimon did not crack the top 200. That is correct. In survey that measured three (3) metrics, Mr. Dimon did not make the top 200.


    The rankings can be found at:


    The three metrics were: Industry adjusted total shareholder return (TSR), Country adjusted TRS, and Change in market capitalisation.


    1. Gordon Nixon- Royal Bank of Canada


    coddy: looks Ok


    2. RA Eung Chan- Shinhan Financial- S. Korea


    coddy: Shinhan Chairman Ra Said to Face Sanction by South Korea's Bank Regulator


    3. Craig Donohoe- CME Group- US
    coddy: The undoing of CME's Donohue
    CME Subpoenaed by Federal Grand Jury, CFTC on MF Global
    Donohue said his decision was unrelated to the failure of one of the company’s customers, MF Global Holdings Ltd. (MFGLQ)


    I did not google 4 through 10


    4. David Simon- Simon Property Group- US
    5. R. Sridhar- Shriram Financial- India
    6. Ronald Hermance, Jr.- Hudson City Bankcorp- US
    7. Pete Lowy- Westfield Group- Austrailia
    8. Steven Lowy- Westfield Group- Austrailia
    9. Alessandro Profumo- Unicredit- Italy
    10. Jean-Philippe Thierry- Allianz- France
    15 Jul 2012, 10:48 PM Reply Like
  • coddy,


    I simply took a ranking of the top 200 CEO's and listed the top ten in the financial sector. Clearly there are some "questionable" folks, my point was/is: There are people who could replace Jamie Dimon.


    If the Board of JPM were to conduct a search for a CEO, they would surely find qualified candidates. I do not believe that JPM is too big to fail, and I do not believe Jamie Dimon is too important to be replaced.


    Where is Jon Corzine?
    16 Jul 2012, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • deer


    Last I knew Corzine was in the Hamptons. Everyone was trying to avoid him.
    16 Jul 2012, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint,


    I saw the report on The Honorable Jon Corzine summering in the Hamptons. Such a tough life for Mr. Corzine! He looked "tired" according to the report. Must be the weight of making $2B disappear is dragging him down. Back to his chateau in France for the winter and he gets to do it all over again next summer.


    Where is Jon Corzine and why is he a free man?
    16 Jul 2012, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    I simply took a ranking of the top 200 CEO's and listed the top ten in the financial sector. Clearly there are some "questionable" folks, my point was/is: There are people who could replace Jamie Dimon.
    and my point is that you did not make your point
    however your effort was not completely wasteful


    I got feeling the your #3 candidate for JD replacement Craig Donohoe is that person able to answer your "Where is Jon Corzine? " question.
    16 Jul 2012, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • He is free likely because he is a political wild card that could talk about all kinds of indiscretions and at least some illegal.
    16 Jul 2012, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • I disagree.


    Mr. Mahar said that there were never any names given as to who could replace Jamie Dimon.


    I listed ten of the top financial CEO's as rated by INSEAD's Global Rankings of CEOs.


    In listing these, I certainly made my point. The uber-smart Mr. Dimon did not show up in the top 200. There are qualified people to replace Jamie Dimon. This is the point. How exactly did I fail in this?


    Have a good day.


    Where is Jon Corzine?
    17 Jul 2012, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    In listing these, I certainly made my point. The uber-smart Mr. Dimon did not show up in the top 200. There are qualified people to replace Jamie Dimon. This is the point. How exactly did I fail in this?
    yes you failed


    you failed to realized a simple fact that in America, which is part of a free world everybody entitled to create their own list(s) even as SA has own lists.


    Your target was picked unfair
    Your argument was lightweight
    Your relentless pursuit of "Where J. Corzine" issue stumbled on this thread
    In short you failed to yourself


    Dimon returns as CEO of the Year


    For a second consecutive year, James (Jamie) Dimon of ...



    If JD can be replaced is not the issue
    Yes he can


    Everybody is replaceable
    Apple, HP and Yahoo all know it


    Issue is resulting outcome
    17 Jul 2012, 06:57 PM Reply Like
  • Seriously?


    INSEAD's Global Ranking of CEO's listed the top 200 based on three metrics which I listed above. Jamie Dimon was not in the top 200. These metrics have nothing to do with popularity.


    The issue has everything to do with whether or not Jamie Dimon can be replaced. Mr. Mahar was interested in names, I gave names. You took the time to search the top four of the financial sector.


    I will take my lightweight argument and INSEAD's Global Ranking and enjoy my evening. You should too.


    I will continue my relentless pursuit of Jon Corzine. The great thing is that you really believe that I am looking for him and actually care where he is located in the world. You miss this point too.


    Where is Jon Corzine? (come on, a smart guy like you can figure this out)
    17 Jul 2012, 09:16 PM Reply Like
  • deercreekvols
    The great thing is that you really believe that I am looking for him and actually care where he is located in the world. You miss this point too.
    in other words it was figure of speech on your part
    and you believe that I missed it, and I believed it


    you are too naive


    difference between globally and locally is globally they are more cynically
    18 Jul 2012, 12:27 AM Reply Like
  • Without any personal love for Dimon, the claim above ("...only decided on Thursday..) is rather asinine. Who knows when JPM decided that some estatement might be necessary, and since it's been only a few weeks since the original discovery and revelation, how long does the author of such remark think it takes to make an audit of such matters in an institution the size of JPM?
    14 Jul 2012, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • I agree with you to a certain degree, but it's possible the reason for the delay to restating Q1 was to make sure the methodology was consistent with what they would use to show the p&l for Q2.
    There are essentially three aspects to how you price the trade. Firstly, there is the midmarket on the CDS (which is an observable), second there is the correlation between the longs and the shorts and thirdly, there is the spread reserve needed for a positions of this size. The biggest unknown, and one which is always more of an educated guess is the spread for size. It would not be surprising if they waited until they decided what was an acceptable number for Q2 and then backsolved for the Q1 number.


    Given it is almost impossible for them to unwind the trade unless they pay silly money, or do it very very slowly, the spread is an arbitrary number, but they clearly wanted to send out a positive message.
    14 Jul 2012, 05:47 PM Reply Like
  • I like the fact that Jamie Dimon has his money where his mouth is.
    See his JPM stock ownership.
    14 Jul 2012, 08:55 AM Reply Like
  • Typical bullish contributor speak ... Right or wrong mean nothing ! Just let my stock price be high ! Who cares if the millions of clients get nothing and now have to pay for services that had been provided as customer service for decades. Maybe your too young to remember that for almost ever people got a passbook and received 4% interest. That was the norm for all.And, bankers were respected members of society. Now there greedy pigs and we learned that the famous TARP 2 page plan was corrupted in less than 48 hours by the GS boys that had mingled into the highest levels of Government. Then they directed the love feast with the money to buy each other and save the billions in pensions and parachutes.


    Yes, your a contributor ! Long live greed and leave the crumbs for the 300 million non-bankers ! DL
    14 Jul 2012, 09:07 AM Reply Like
  • When you look at their numbers, the last earnings data should have torpedoed the stock. All of the beat was a smoke and mirrors. The claimed CIO hedging (between 10 and 30 percent of profits came from the CIO's office? from hedging?) was obviously gambling. It blew up.


    And they got away with it.


    When gross miscalculations are rewarded Its not the numbers, its the Dimon mystique. Who knows how long the fawning will last?
    14 Jul 2012, 09:08 AM Reply Like
  • The buck stops here.


    H. Truman
    14 Jul 2012, 10:08 AM Reply Like
  • Great quote PT,but, I think Bess said it or yelled it at him before we heard it ! Behind every president is his boss ...
    14 Jul 2012, 10:10 AM Reply Like
  • Right. And who's the boss behind BHO?
    14 Jul 2012, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • Same answer as above and her best friend ! Valerie J.. She is absolute boss and she answers to Mrs BHO..........
    14 Jul 2012, 10:27 AM Reply Like
  • Amused, DaLatin, and they are both strong women, but neither is a shaker or a maker. Follow da money.
    14 Jul 2012, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • DianeLee, always follow the money...
    I have mucho for all my success on WS !!!


    But, scuttlebutt is enjoyable in the higher arky soap opera.And, when the insiders talk about General Holder almost in a all out fight with David Axelrod a simple threat by Ms Jarrent about them finding new jobs showed all in the US who runs the country ! And, she gets that power from the Mrs O. Not BO ! DL


    So, I do follow the money and the person in charge of the real money in the WH is Valerie Jarrent. BO is the speaker with the great gift and she is the iron pants ! Yep. folllow the power that controls the money !
    14 Jul 2012, 05:57 PM Reply Like
  • Lol, DaLatin. How can I argue with that? What I actually suggested was to follow the SuperPac Money (unions, etc.) and big-time contributors. As to Mrs O, I understand "she" controls the remote....;)
    14 Jul 2012, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • SuperPac money is irrelevant. I am not in Obama's camp,but, the alleged close race is for the media to sell adds . Especially for that superpac money,but, reality says the election is over. There is less than 1% chance Romney can win. Even his own plan to 270 doesn't work and we all see what is going on ! Florida will end election before most states will finish. Most tout Ohio as the must of musts,but, that is only if Romney wins Florida,but, Obama doesn't need it !


    I've recently left the US lock stock an barrel and not looking back ! The Government is outta control and with the Supreme Courts two monstrous cases they ended any shred of freedom ! The Congress can do anything they dream up and tax it and the Automobile cases chucked out US contract law making any serious plans by foreigners to invest pure stupidity ! IMHO.


    And then there is Obama's secret weapon !!! psssst Romney !
    You can not use the word passion and Romney in the same sentence and he is toast ! Never missed an election call !
    Pura vida , DL
    14 Jul 2012, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • Theres many employees at JPM. He can't be responsible for the fraud of every one of them! He's discovered a problem and now hes fixing it. If anything needs to be done, its fire those directly responsible and claw back their bonuses!
    14 Jul 2012, 10:34 AM Reply Like
  • cw, NOT ! Bloomberg uncovered it and blasted it all over the financial media world and Dimon couldn't hide it ! He knew as CIO head was family member and good old nepitism ! He was aware of CIO moves !


    14 Jul 2012, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • bloomberg didn't uncover anything. They reported it. Fact is...if this would have never gotten out in the media..their loss would be negligible.


    1. News media talks about a player who has size in the market
    2. Market participants know who has size and how to hurt them
    3. Political pressure forces capitulation and JPM literally top ticks the market
    4. Huge loss


    Just like LTCM. If people didn't know their positions. They would (probably) never have to puke those positions and could have ridden them to maturity.
    14 Jul 2012, 02:05 PM Reply Like
  • itsAme,


    What you say sounds nice in theory. In the real world, history has taught us that players who break the rules seeking to make a killing in the markets usually become desperate when losses begin piling up. The next act is to double down to get even. When things continue to worsen, said gambler usually makes even more desperate bets in an attempt to cover up their mistakes/crimes. Las Vegas was built on the reliability of such behavior.
    14 Jul 2012, 04:23 PM Reply Like
  • The trading position of the London Whale wasn't breaking any rules. And JPM unwound the position, they didnt double down.
    14 Jul 2012, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • ha ha ha ! What planet do you live on ? I posted the transcript of the conference twice. Might want to read it before making a boo boo of a comment ! pssst page 16 Trade still ongoing ~ DL
    14 Jul 2012, 06:03 PM Reply Like
  • Cherry Picker


    14 Jul 2012, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • Class action lawsuit by Louisiana, Ohio, Arkansas, and a Swedish pension fund claim fraud was committed. Not sure if fraud is a rule, but there are some state AG's who are not too pleased with JPM.


    Question: If JPM "unwound the position," how can the losses still be mounting?
    15 Jul 2012, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • That's not exactly true. The CEO is, by definition, responsible for the deeds and misdeeds of his company. He is paid so much, not because he's a really smart guy, but by taking the role of CEO, he has taken on that responsibility.


    That is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with over-swollen corporations. No reasonable person could expect one person to manage the tens of thousands of JPM employees and so it creates an odd legal position.


    No one in that position can know everything that every manager does but he is ultimately responsible for them...the answer is that the corporation is unmanagibly big...
    15 Jul 2012, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • Even if there is no apparent replacement for Dimon he needs to resign or be fired as a matter of business practice. He is in charge and the buck stops with him. He failed the organization and worse yet the shareholders. The loss is only the small part of the impact. His team is in disarray and his shareholders have lost $20 billion. If this happened to you do you think you would keep your job? NO!
    14 Jul 2012, 12:56 PM Reply Like
  • If you know anything about banking Dimon has done pretty damn well for shareholders over the years. This loss in the big picture is petty cash and IMO JPM is a looking pretty good right now.


    Everything else is hyperventilation. Imagine if we stressed out over $4 billion at the Federal Government level? We would all be dead from the stress as they are blowing that much every few days.


    JPM and Dimon are not even on the radar screen as our biggest problem but certainly our politicians will make it seem like they are while they are robbing you blind of your future along with your kids and grandkids.


    Always look at the biggest numbers first. $4 Billion is not the number.
    14 Jul 2012, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • Tomas, your post is absolutely on point, imho. JPM and Dimon aren't much more than a diversion.
    14 Jul 2012, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • jeffk56
    Even if there is no apparent replacement for Dimon he needs to resign or be fired as a matter of business practice. He is in charge and the buck stops with him. He failed the organization and worse yet the shareholders.


    exactly of shareholder


    everybody, who is not shareholder of {JPM}, has nothing to do neither with their loss nor who in charge of this company as long as their loss does not threatens our personal accounts placed in their guard


    It also OK to criticize them (shareholder or non shareholder), if one runs against them for Job
    14 Jul 2012, 06:15 PM Reply Like
  • I partly agree with you TomasViewPoint. However, comparing a loss at JPM vs. the Federal Government of $5.8 billion (and counting) is not even close to an apples to apples comparison. JPM can't print money. If they could, I'd buy the stock :) . Plus, the Federal Government can run a budget deficit every year for an extended period of time (like we're currently doing) and still operate. A company can't (insolvency), unless it consistently receives a source of cash to cover cash losses and working capital needs. The big picture issue here is systematic risk and whether or not JPM has its operations under control. And yes, the Federal Government wastes taxpayers money everyday. Can't argue with you there! Thanks for your post. Have a good day.
    14 Jul 2012, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • TVP, 99% of the time I agree with your observations and you often beat me to the punch ! On Mr Dimon I must humbly scream NOT ! JPMs stock price is around where it was 10 years back and the US dollar has dropped in value quite a bit. Different calculations ,but, 15/20% is quite fair ! Dimon had done poorly IMHO and this stock has been around since the late 1700s and it's the oldest US symbol. This has been one of the worst decades in the history of JPM.


    We all see how Jamie helped Sandy steer Citibank into one of the largest disasters and come out smelling like a rose ( or diamond).He does not deserve any kudos now and a classy guy would step down. I doubt he has that class and should be removed. His CIO department was discussed at family dinners and he is not telling the truth playing the Sgt. Shultz I no nothing poop ! DL
    14 Jul 2012, 07:02 PM Reply Like
  • DaLatin


    Dimon took over in early 2006 and his performance is tracking a little below the S&P 500 in one of the worst banking environments since the 1930's. JPM stock is WAY ABOVE above peer institutions like C and BAC and tracks similair to WFC. And there are hundreds of banks not even around to compare to any longer. That is not bad given the shape of the industry.


    What are you referring to that Dimon got Weill involved in? Weill fired him a long time ago so Weill owned that by himself from my perspective.
    14 Jul 2012, 10:01 PM Reply Like
  • Seriously a $4 billion dollar loss on a hedge for a $350 billion credit portfolio? Yes yes yes.. fire Jamie...put the intern in charge


    buck stops here!!! lol
    14 Jul 2012, 10:10 PM Reply Like
  • I would vote for Mr. Dimon if he ran for president of the USA.
    14 Jul 2012, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • I'd volunteer to be his VP.
    14 Jul 2012, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • What makes you think he already isn't "president" of the US.
    14 Jul 2012, 11:51 PM Reply Like
  • This whole JPM loss is quite fascinating.


    I've yet to hear anyone make the point that someone won on their loss. Maybe a Euro gov't, maybe another bank, maybe an individual.


    For someone to lose, someone has to win. Of course, that would require an objective media to point out that simple fact...
    14 Jul 2012, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • You can't be serious, right?




    14 Jul 2012, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Oh, sorry.. they have been pointed out. I stand corrected. But that's certainly not the headline. Everyone is focused on the losing side of the bet. Perhaps the winners aren't the ones people want to win, but they're winners nonetheless. I'm not surprised... bad news sells.


    But it is fascinating to watch... perhaps even more so because it's our federal government throwing the stones, as if they're financially responsible and in a place to hand out advice.
    14 Jul 2012, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • ea:


    Most people have swallowed the politicians' and media's big-bad-banks story hook, line and sinker.
    14 Jul 2012, 03:35 PM Reply Like
  • The media needs something to report on since Lindsay Lohan went sober and Charlie Sheen refused to surrender(and continued winning).
    15 Jul 2012, 02:07 AM Reply Like
  • Yes your right,Where did the money go?
    15 Jul 2012, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • it is better for Jamie to move out
    is JPM so short of a good leadership talent ?
    14 Jul 2012, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • Nice, let's throw another bone to the peasants...
    14 Jul 2012, 04:50 PM Reply Like
  • This is just a truly silly discussion. All the "off with his head" bloggers here can rest assured that while significantly embarrassing to both JPM and Jamie Dimon, Mr. Dimon has earned a "mulligan" by basically steering JPM though the Great Recession in pretty reasonable fashion. Unless there is some direct malfeasance found, Jamie Dimon isn't going anywhere. So just learn to live with it and relax.
    15 Jul 2012, 12:57 AM Reply Like
  • The class-action lawsuits being brought by Ohio, Louisiana, Arkansas, and a Swedish pension seem to believe that Mr. Dimon and JPM have not earned a "mulligan." State AG's feel that there is enough wrong doing to file lawsuits over the "Whale Fraud" losses, which continue to climb as JPM has yet to exit their position.


    Not sure how this will play out.


    To relax and not hold the CEO responsible is exactly what "the smartest guys in the room" hope that you do.
    16 Jul 2012, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • Filing a lawsuit and actually winning a lawsuit are two ENTIRELY different things. Last time I checked, most state AG's were politicians looking to get elected to bigger jobs. In order to do that, they need big time publicity. What better way then to get publicity then to attack the "big bad bankers". 2+2=4


    I'm not necessarily saying that most big league bankers aren't thieves and crooks. What I am saying is that is the was they have always been that is the way they always will be. Therefore, the best you can do is to try and profit from the situation. And since Jamie Dimon isn't going anywhere, you should buy JPM right here (if you want to get into the financials at all), because unless Europe falls completely off a cliff and goes into a deep major recession, I'll practically guarantee JPM will be trading about 10-20% higher by years end. Perhaps more.


    Cursing the darkness never made anyone any money.


    Long JPM at $32.70
    17 Jul 2012, 12:31 AM Reply Like
  • Point taken.


    I have held Wells Fargo as the financial (Blackstone Group too) in my portfolio.


    I am not against JPM, I just don't care for Mr. Dimon.


    NY has had AG's that fit your description perfectly.


    Have a good evening.
    17 Jul 2012, 11:53 PM Reply Like
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