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Samsung (SSNLF.PK) is taking Windows Phone 8 (MSFT) seriously: the company has disclosed in...

Samsung (SSNLF.PK) is taking Windows Phone 8 (MSFT) seriously: the company has disclosed in court documents it's planning to launch two WP8 models in Q4. One will feature a 4.65" display, and both (like the U.S. version of the Galaxy S III) will run on Qualcomm's (QCOM) powerful MSM8960 processor. It looks as if Nokia (NOK), reportedly launching two WP8 models of its in the coming months, will have its work cut out for it. (also)
Comments (56)
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    You can`t have it both ways: critics of NOK whine to say WP7.5 has small market share, nobody wants it and NOK was dumb to chose it. Then when other OEMs say they want WP, they say "ooh watch out NOK, other OEMs are going to make it harder for you". I say bring on all the WP OEMs and let WP market share grow to popular acceptance. Then we'll see whose OEMs' phones people want. Samsung, bring it on (and thank you BTW).
    30 Jul 2012, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • The USA
    , contributor
    Comments (17) | Send Message
     
    Toatally agree with you Charles, excellent point!
    30 Jul 2012, 02:20 PM Reply Like
  • techy46
    , contributor
    Comments (5505) | Send Message
     
    Totally agree, the more vendors the more WP gains market share the more the ecosystem generates app revenue and user acceptance. NOK has never had a problem building mobile hardware, Microsoft and Nokia's problems have been with software for mobile touch based computers. WP8 with W8 core is going to fix a lot of those problems when running on Lumia 910, 920 and 950.
    30 Jul 2012, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    The danger is that people will pick the more familiar brand...Samsung.
    30 Jul 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    DVL: I could be going out on a limb here, but I think Nokia is quite familiar in many parts of the world. I don`t think any reasonable person would consider that a "danger". Samsung is no 1 now, but they are on the no 1 platform. If people have a choice between cheap and quality, quality will get its share of sales. Not worried there.
    30 Jul 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • The USA
    , contributor
    Comments (17) | Send Message
     
    are you looking at this from a US point of view? Yes Samsung is known in the US or let me correct it... has become known lately in the US, but if you broaden your view a little bit, the rest of the world knows and knew NOK for decades now.
    30 Jul 2012, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    Nokia is known for their durable, cheap feature phones.

     

    Their smartphone fan base is tiny.

     

    It'd be like if Subaru came out with a $95,000 car.

     

    People would say, "yeah, I know Subaru, but I don't trust their high end products yet".

     

    Where does the U.S. rank in cell phone markets?

     

    2nd?

     

    3rd?

     

    That is pretty high.

     

    Americans don't usually run to unfamiliar brands.

     

    Samsung is selling SO many phones right now in every country. I wouldn't discount their power.

     

    It will be RC Cola vs. Pepsi.
    30 Jul 2012, 02:34 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    The world knows their utility, feature phones.

     

    The world is unfamiliar with their high-end phones (comparatively speaking).
    30 Jul 2012, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    Nokia: "Their smartphone fan base is tiny." Wow. I will someone else have a go at that one as I do not have any numbers at the tips of my fingers, even though I'm pretty sure Nokia has sold millions and millions and millions of Symbian smartphones outside the US. In fact, I would not be surprised if Nokia has sold a ton more smartphones than Samsung ever has. BTW, Samsung is also known for their feature phones throughout the world, albeit of the cheap variety.
    30 Jul 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    Nokia's current fiscal situation doesn't support your thesis.
    30 Jul 2012, 03:20 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    Heh heh heh. Good one DVL, I didn`t see that response coming. :-)
    30 Jul 2012, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    NOK up 6 cents today, almost 3%. That is the 6th consec. day gain. Cause: EU relief only, and/or other info?
    30 Jul 2012, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    Actually Nokia's price action has been very impressive lately.

     

    One of the greatest technical tips I've ever gotten (from an old, grizzly technician back in the day) was upward momentum for 5 or more days STRAIGHT in a stock while the SPY is just bouncing around is a clear sign of consolidation and a strong base.

     

    Has served me well in the past. Will continue to monitor...
    30 Jul 2012, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • sreimer77
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Facts are, Nokia sold 84 Million phones of which represented an increase from the prior year. So if people go with what is familiar, then Nokia is sure to win........
    30 Jul 2012, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • sreimer77
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Do you represent America? Amazing how someone has the Balls to speak for 300+ Million people. Your ignorance is astouding. I am in need of an upgrade as my screen is cracked through. My HTC droid was ok, but I am waiting for the Nokia launch for W8. So I am a educated (PHD Finance) American who will not be buying an Iphone, but will be buying a Nokia Lumia 1000......
    30 Jul 2012, 05:10 PM Reply Like
  • sreimer77
    , contributor
    Comments (227) | Send Message
     
    Please expand upon their fiscal situation. If intangibles were really priced at the market price, they'd be worth a hell of a lot more then current accounting value.as if they were. Billion in Royalties discounted is worth anywhere from $5Billion to $20 depending on the discount rate. Giving most of the current losses are one-timers, aka cost to lay off thousands of employees, plant closures, devaluing inventory etc, none of this actually affects cash. Average selling price held up better then expected and volume as well. I know the Smart phone segment is the area of concern, but giving here in the US Nokia is gonna go from 2 carriers to 4, with some major marketing surrounding, we can expect at a minimum to double sales. If they sold 4 Million last quarter, then 8 Million is not a long shot, especially giving sales have doubled over the prior 3 quarters for the Lumia line.

     

    Also, giving the fact that people are going to have to pay full price for their phones, or lose unlimited data, the actual cost of an Iphone is going to cause people to think twice about spending $700 on a device that will last two years, especially when $150 is just for some extra memory of which would only cost you $32 if you could just add a 32 g sim card...
    30 Jul 2012, 05:16 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    "Also, giving the fact that people are going to have to pay full price for their phones, or lose unlimited data"

     

    I have 2 iphone 4 that will expire in august with unlimited data.

     

    If they take away my unlimited data if I try to upgrade to the iphone 5 on att, I will either 1)wait half a year and buy a used iphone 5 on ebay. or 2) buy lumia wp8 phones and sell on ebay, then buy a used iphone 5 later on and keep 1 of the lumia wp8 for myself.
    30 Jul 2012, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • Mr. Knowitall
    , contributor
    Comments (7388) | Send Message
     
    I don't think that matters as much as you think DVL.
    In my lifetime I've owned two Nokia (feature) phones. If I were not following the stock and not working in a technical field I would still unflinchingly consider a Nokia smartphone because of my previous satisfaction with their feature phones.

     

    I don't think the average consumer says to himself "Oh geeze, that smartphone technology is entirely different than feature phone technology, I better give that a lot more thought."
    IMHO, people tend to trust a manufacturer if they have had a good experience in the past. It's like buying a Sony Vaio after owning a Sony TV and Sony PlayStation - because you were very satisfied with the other products.
    30 Jul 2012, 09:57 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    The problem is the gap in time.

     

    If we could go from 2005 right to now then people can carry forward with that loyalty to Nokia.

     

    But in the dark years for Nokia, tens of millions of people have embraced Apple and Samsung.

     

    Those people aren't going to all of a sudden go, "Hey, Nokia! I remember them! Let me just drop my Apple or Android app ecosystem and once again become loyal to Nokia like I was in the middle of the last decade."

     

    Nokia will sell phones but not enough to dent that fierce loyalty to Apple iOS and Android that has taken hold in the last few years.
    30 Jul 2012, 10:15 PM Reply Like
  • stealthology
    , contributor
    Comments (308) | Send Message
     
    I don't expect WP to ever become comparable in sales to Apple in the next 5+ years, but I think they can still increase their marketshare gradually without much harm to Apple and the rest. I think there's no way WP becomes a complete bust, it will catch on gradually. Microsoft will make sure that happens. Are they really going to give up on mobile?

     

    The question is how much of the WP sales pie will Nokia get. They better be going all out with phones just as powerful and fast as Samsung, etc in 4th quarter. Then again, the US is just one minor part of their earnings. I do believe in other countries, Nokia has maintained its strong reputation, unlike being MIA the past 5 years in the US.
    30 Jul 2012, 10:42 PM Reply Like
  • techy46
    , contributor
    Comments (5505) | Send Message
     
    @DVL $95k car analogy isn't really germane to the smart phone market. Subura Impreza WRX STI at $37.000 is a pretty popular car with young geners. Who cares about the majority of American's smart phone preferences? The global market is where the real growth will be. Microsoft and Nokia have global brand appeal and smart Americans know those brands. It's going to be Apple vs Android + Samsung vs Microsoft + Nokia but Samsung will also validate the Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 branding especially after Apple spanks Android and Samsung in court.
    30 Jul 2012, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • techy46
    , contributor
    Comments (5505) | Send Message
     
    @dvl

     

    The world didn't know squat about Samsung Android phones three years ago and guess what happen on the way to court in California?
    30 Jul 2012, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • Mr. Knowitall
    , contributor
    Comments (7388) | Send Message
     
    >> "Nokia will sell phones but not enough to dent that fierce loyalty to Apple iOS and Android that has taken hold in the last few years."

     

    That's ok as long as the stock goes to $8 :-D
    31 Jul 2012, 12:31 AM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    I don't know the outcome of that court case.

     

    I don't think anyone does.
    31 Jul 2012, 01:19 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    Android = heavy advertising.

     

    Nokia = tumbleweeds rolling across the TV screen (at least in America...a pretty important market)
    31 Jul 2012, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • NIKKG
    , contributor
    Comments (114) | Send Message
     
    For now, I agree with you DVL, but wait till the Christmas shopping season when M$ is heavily promoting WP8 as well as Windows 8. You have to look at the potential of Nokia, I never cared for WP7, but WP8 is hot, I actually don't mind trading in my Galaxy SIII for it.
    31 Jul 2012, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    I keep reading on these threads about Microsoft's promotion of Windows Phone.

     

    What about Nokia placing their own darned ads on the TV?!?

     

    There must be a reason why Nokia thumbs their nose at American advertising...
    31 Jul 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Nokia does a lot of advertising here in the usa. TV ads are not the only way to advertise nowadays.

     

    times sq
    http://nokia.ly/QavgIf

     

    herald sq
    http://huff.to/QavfUM

     

    Expect a much bigger presence this coming fall.
    31 Jul 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    NIKKG: you never cared for wp7? What?

     

    If Nokia asked me where should they spend their ad money, here is what I would say: - TV - don`t bother. For the TV that people watch, the ones that have cash have DVRs and spin through the ads.
    - I say find the most popular podcasts and advertize there. Also YouTube, Facebook, & other popular websites. Also magazines and newspapers that still print, billboards, buses, metro, etc. No charge for this advice.
    31 Jul 2012, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • NIKKG
    , contributor
    Comments (114) | Send Message
     
    Good, the more manufacturers make WP phones, the bigger the market for WP gets and more people start buying WP phones. Isn't that the reason why everyone kept bashing Nokia for not going to Android because WP was such a small market?

     

    At least now with WP8, we know that its getting top notch hardware with bigger screens compared to WP7.
    30 Jul 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    So let me get this straight. Nokia will fail because Wp7/8 has a tiny market share. Even if wp7/8 gains popularity and grabs more market share, it still wont survive because Samsung will sell more phones then Nokia.

     

    The bottom line is that Nokia will fail regardless..... oh well, I guess I am a fool then for believing otherwise.
    30 Jul 2012, 04:03 PM Reply Like
  • DavidJ65
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    So, you will buy a Samsung WP8 phone? right.
    30 Jul 2012, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    I dont know about DVL, but I am in for a Nokia wp8 phone and a iphone 5 for my girlfriend. I had a samsung focus phone before and it felt kinda flimsy.
    30 Jul 2012, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    Look, I agree Samsung can't hold a candle to Nokia's QUALITY. But Samsung wipes the floor with Nokia when it comes to MARKETING.

     

    Why do you think America is so stuffed with cheap, Chinese crap? Because Americans like anything that is sold at a rock bottom price (Samsung and its cheap parts) or is of high quality and is brutally expensive but is marketed like mad (Apple and its cheap parts but high quality design).

     

    If it was all about quality then Nokia would be as successful as HTC was a couple of years back.

     

    Can someone tell me why Nokia doesn't advertise in the U.S. with the same passion as Budweiser or Ford?
    30 Jul 2012, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • techy46
    , contributor
    Comments (5505) | Send Message
     
    It'll be amusing to see Samsung WP8 phones with Nokia Drive and Maps Inside.
    30 Jul 2012, 11:24 PM Reply Like
  • Mr. Knowitall
    , contributor
    Comments (7388) | Send Message
     
    @DVL
    Samsung is Korean BTW (http://bit.ly/M0e07Z) and I don't think Chinese products are crap.
    Where do you think Foxconn is? Ireland?
    31 Jul 2012, 12:36 AM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8144) | Send Message
     
    Of course Samsung is Korean. So is Kia, LG and Posco.

     

    I've never seen an American tout the high quality of Chinese goods.

     

    That is a first!
    31 Jul 2012, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Luke your right, My iphone 4 and ipad 2 are made by foxconn workers in china and I find them to made pretty well.
    31 Jul 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • Mr. Knowitall
    , contributor
    Comments (7388) | Send Message
     
    DVL, you should watch the video, you'll probably get a chuckle out of it :p
    31 Jul 2012, 04:54 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    Luke: everyone knows FoxConn is a Fox company located in Connecticut, thats why it is FoxConn! :-)
    31 Jul 2012, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Charles I live in Conneticut. The only Fox company I know is a certain entertainment company called FOXWOODS :)
    31 Jul 2012, 05:06 PM Reply Like
  • Russell Christopher
    , contributor
    Comments (17) | Send Message
     
    Nothing against Samsung, HTC, and other OEMs who created WP7 offerings. The resulting hardware was "good enough". I own one of the early devices.

     

    By comparison, the 900 series from Nokia is a work of art. Given the choice between a WP8 enabled Galaxy III or a Lumia 9xx running on my network, the Lumia wins for me me - hands down.

     

    So I see this as good news. More WP8 adoption, with Nokia as the leader in the WP9 space.
    30 Jul 2012, 05:14 PM Reply Like
  • marvinsannes
    , contributor
    Comments (51) | Send Message
     
    Competition is good for everyone. Nokia and MSFT together is
    a no brainer for me - bought @ 1.83 and it's as sure a bet as I've ever made in my life, a long one!

     

    Fear and greed drive stock exchg and have little to do with the real market. Quality always wins in the real market and both these companies have delivered for a long time. Goodwill on the balance
    sheet comes right after cash.
    30 Jul 2012, 06:28 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Wp8 is when Microsoft and partners will be marketing in full force. It will finally start comparing their operating system feature by feature. And it will finally not lag behind the competition.

     

    Bloggers will not be able complain about missing features, especially not the oh btw it doesnt do screen capture or hey there is no peer to peer blue tooth transfer. Or the skype program doesnt work correctly. oh and also most importantly, its running on a outdated single core cpu. Dual cores will be a start and it will be pretty much unlimited to how many cores the oems can add because it runs on the NT kernel. And apps will problably have surpassed 150.000 by october. Most of the popular apps will be onboard by then.

     

    3d game engines like Havok and unreal, Unity3D will also be available on Wp8 along with DirectX. Developers will finally be able to port their 3d games over from ios, android, Xbox, windows 8 desktop with ease.

     

    Verizon, Att, Sprint will be on board that will make a huge difference in terms selling lumia phones.

     

    In October the real marketing will begin for windows phone and windows 8 and windows RT.

     

    Oems like Dell, HP, lenovo, Asus etc etc will start marketing their Desktops/laptops/hybrids running touch enabled version of windows 8. People will start getting use to the interface of the new windows and discover that there is a phone using the same kind of interface.

     

    And once those fade away along will come the next generation of XBOX (xbox720?)
    30 Jul 2012, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    Leont: reading your post has whipped me up in a frenzy! I wish I had more money to buy NOK.

     

    BTW: quick story re my Lumia 800: in a campground in a small village with wifi, called my brother long distance (350 km - 200 miles) via Skype and it sounded better than a regular cell call. Needless to say I was super impressed as Skype never worked that well on my Android phone. It always had strange noise accompanying the call.
    31 Jul 2012, 09:31 AM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Charles what I find exciting is that I finally get a chance to be able to buy a stock with such potential to make money. Its like being able to invest in Microsoft, google, apple at their lows. I plan to keep adding to my nokia shares over time and keep them for a long long time. I will sell puts and calls for additional income and keep collecting the future dividends once Nokia is in the black again.
    31 Jul 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • Charles Santerre
    , contributor
    Comments (1242) | Send Message
     
    Leont: well I hope you`re right but I don`t think NOK will compare to those companies at their lows. I hope I am wrong.
    31 Jul 2012, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    Charles, I hope I get to be right also about my prediction. But I do not have a crystal ball. But I do understand one thing, that is that Steve Jobs is gone now, his reality distortion field is not cloaking Apple anymore. If Apple keeps coming out with these mediocre upgrades people will move on to the next "in" thing.

     

    I am sure Apple will still do great in the future, I am only mentioning this to get to my next point. Which is that there is room for Microsoft and grow and grab at least a 20 percent of the future smartphone market. Not now and not next year. But in 4 or 5 years.

     

    By then I hope that my nokia shares will be worth $15 dollars a share.

     

    Maybe by 2016 we can revisit this for further discussion.

     

    (this is all my own point of view, no links no backup)
    31 Jul 2012, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • Mr. Knowitall
    , contributor
    Comments (7388) | Send Message
     
    >> "But I do understand one thing, that is that Steve Jobs is gone now, his reality distortion field is not cloaking Apple anymore. "

     

    Funny you should mention that. Have a look at this article on Nokai and Apple, quite an eye opener.

     

    [Jobs had no idea how to build a phone. He sidled up to Motorola’s incompetent CEO Ed Zander a few years ago and totally rolled him in a supposed joint venture. When it was over, all the best radio frequency engineers had been made available to Apple. Jobs had all the key Motorola secrets he needed for his phone and MOT had nothing in return. Now MOT is gone. Thank the MOT Board of Directors, including the over touted Indra Nooyi for her role in that catastrophe. http://onforb.es/MXO0tu ]
    31 Jul 2012, 04:58 PM Reply Like
  • stealthology
    , contributor
    Comments (308) | Send Message
     
    Hmm. 2 questions.

     

    1 - Can anyone please lay out why they believe Nokia's "premier partnership" status w/ MS will make a difference when some guy is deciding which WP8 device he wants to splurge on? It looks like we're talking about Samsung Galaxy SIII hardware here.
    2 - Is it true Nokia would have just about broken even this past quarter if they didn't pay the dividend? If so.. wouldn't these next few quarters mean NOK is fairly safe to break even? I'm not even counting on the dividend for next year.

     

    I am long Nokia, cost basis around $2.50ish; a whopping 8% of my portfolio.
    30 Jul 2012, 07:31 PM Reply Like
  • stealthology
    , contributor
    Comments (308) | Send Message
     
    To add to my comment/questions.. I'm thinking what the liklihood MS will bail out Nokia if shit hits the fan for Nokia in the next few years (which I highly doubt based on the seemingly smart decisions Elop has made since taking reign). Part of the deal struck between these companies last year was MS using Nokia's Navteq subsidiary to power Bing Maps and maps on WP. Would MS really let Nokia die being so invested in their mapping technology?

     

    Hmm.. to make Nokia a larger position for me or not..
    30 Jul 2012, 08:06 PM Reply Like
  • pureview8
    , contributor
    Comments (226) | Send Message
     
    If NOK is already 8% of your portfolio already, I probably wouldn't increase it. There is tremendous upside, but no investment is riskless. Spread your money around so one sucker won't sink your ship.
    30 Jul 2012, 11:46 PM Reply Like
  • westkite
    , contributor
    Comments (218) | Send Message
     
    I have time and time mentioned that SamSung will dominate the phone market. Nokia is no match (Pureview at best will be at 13mb not 41mb- Nokia cannot integrate 41mb into WP8). It has no edge over SamSung phones. Even Apple can't compete. Nokia has no chance. Sell Nokia today while it's up and then rebuy around $1.50 - $1.60.
    31 Jul 2012, 01:51 AM Reply Like
  • stealthology
    , contributor
    Comments (308) | Send Message
     
    hmm. Now is that "at best 13mp" something you pulled out of your ass, or is it based on something? Just curious.
    31 Jul 2012, 06:44 AM Reply Like
  • Leont68
    , contributor
    Comments (1356) | Send Message
     
    he said time and time again, its "mb". not megapixel :)

     

    And sure I will sell while its going up. And if it does reach 1.50 you will be the first one telling us that Nokia will go bankrupt.

     

    How about I just hold on to my shares and buy on the dip.
    31 Jul 2012, 07:01 AM Reply Like
  • godalmightee13
    , contributor
    Comments (466) | Send Message
     
    The bankrupt word seems to be getting rarer :-O with regards to NOK 'amazing ah lol,,, Well if the $1.50 pops up again between now and sept. I will purchase some more NOK stock ;-), an may be by Oct. short Apple :-O.
    31 Jul 2012, 09:44 AM Reply Like
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