Ford (F) plans to debut its C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid in 19 U.S. markets this fall in front of...


Ford (F) plans to debut its C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid in 19 U.S. markets this fall in front of a national launch set for early in 2013. The automaker says the vehicle has a total driving range of 550 miles using both its electric motor and gas engine, giving it a selling advantage over Toyota's (TM) Prius plug-in hybrid.

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Comments (20)
  • marilyn61
    , contributor
    Comments (173) | Send Message
     
    I see that Ford have suggested a starting price of $33,745 and state that this car has advantages over it's two rivals - the Chevrolet Volt and the new Prius plug-in. If as they say the 550 miles total driving range is proven, given the smaller battery system than the Volt, which has already proved to be relatively popular, plus beating the Prius in both driving range ( marginal ) and speed, they could well be on to a winner and I watch with interest.
    7 Aug 2012, 09:16 AM Reply Like
  • Ryandan
    , contributor
    Comments (1594) | Send Message
     
    Anybody do a study on what it cost to juice a car with electricity verses putting gasoline into it? I can't believe the cost to make electricity is that much cheaper? And once we drive up the rates for electricity, I'm sure we'll be sorry we went down that road.........
    7 Aug 2012, 09:16 AM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    Hesitating to respond under the constant threat of personal attack, but yes it has been discussed at length. Here's the math, based on a typical EV, which can translate proportionately to a Hybrid as well...

     

    A 75-mile class pure EV requires on the order of 23 kWhr of battery power to do the job. At approximately 11 cents per kWhr the cost to drive 75 miles would be roughly $2.50 - give or take a dime or two. Call it 3.3 cents a mile.

     

    A comparable gas car gets maybe 30 mpg combined, so 75 miles would burn around 2.5 gallons, or maybe $10 these days, or 13.3 cents per mile, or 10 cents per mile more than the electric.

     

    Now suppose a commuter drives 12,000 miles a year. In a pure EV that is $400 in electricity, while a gas car it is $1600 in gas, or $1200 per year in potential savings, or, as stated, about 10 cents per mile driven.

     

    By the way, a pound of coal used to make electricity for the grid to the home provides about the same range to an EV as a pound of gasoline in a gas car - the thermodynamics and overall combustion efficiencies are pretty close in the end.

     

    As for the future of electricity costs versus petroleum, who knows.
    7 Aug 2012, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    errata: meant to say "...which can translate proportionately to a Plug-in Hybrid as well..."

     

    A regular Hybrid, which does not plug into the Grid to recharge, gets all its energy from the fuel (gasoline), although the regenerative cycle while coasting and braking makes the overall propulsion efficiency much higher. In any case it is tied up in the "miles per gallon" estimates.

     

    The Plug-in Hybrid can receive electricity from the grid (or other sources), and depending on the ratio of grid electricity used to gasoline used in a typical commute, it has proportional savings in cost of electricity to cost of gasoline.

     

    One other factor: depending on the availability of "free EV charging" in the local community, it is conceivable for the direct electricity costs to be much lower or even zero, with creative practices. For example, some stores, restaurants, and coffee shops have taken to offering free charging for customers - sort of like getting your parking ticket validated.
    7 Aug 2012, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • dougmccown
    , contributor
    Comments (31) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, but it's a Ford. The company that inspired 'fix or repair daily'.
    7 Aug 2012, 10:14 AM Reply Like
  • MYDRRX
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    I would like to hear more information; like how long you can drive on the battery without the help of the engine.
    7 Aug 2012, 12:46 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    You can review Ford's media press releases at http://media.ford.com
    7 Aug 2012, 09:30 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    The quick answer is, according to the press release (yes, we can read! And copy and paste!):

     

    * C-Max Energi electric-drive range is about 20 miles

     

    * Ford also said that the C-Max Energi will have a top all-electric drive speed of 85 miles per hour, which it says is 20 mph faster than the Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid.

     

    * Ford said the 2013 C-Max Hybrid will be priced from $25,995, including shipping. The 2012 Toyota Prius V starts at $27,395, including shipping; prices have not been released for the 2013 model.

     

    * Pricing of the C-Max Energi will be $29,995, including shipping charges and incentives, Ford said.
    8 Aug 2012, 06:55 AM Reply Like
  • frogola
    , contributor
    Comments (105) | Send Message
     
    by ford starting later there able to use the latest technologies with out retooling again.they also have a constant improvement program that seems to be working well.
    7 Aug 2012, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • therealstargazer
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    starting price is about $25K

     

    Also, recheck your reliability figures, oldtimer.

     

    This car will be a huge winner
    7 Aug 2012, 05:23 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    The $25k base price applies to the regular C-Max Hybrid, not the plug-in C-Max Energi, if the press releases have it right.
    7 Aug 2012, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    Actually $26k, but yeah.
    8 Aug 2012, 07:07 AM Reply Like
  • EdwinJ44
    , contributor
    Comments (61) | Send Message
     
    You can bet your sweet donkey that when electricity becomes more popular (because of the need to power our automobiles) the price will rise. And that will mean higher costs to maintain your home and businesses. Recreation gets a double hit. Recreation using electricity will go up and recreation that requires gasoline will also rise due to the need for refineries to raise their prices to offset the lower production to maintain their profit margins. Supply and demand.
    7 Aug 2012, 05:39 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    Possibly. There is also a very good chance that a liberal administration, after being resoundingly re-elected in 3 months due to semi-conservative bumbling, will take it as a popular mandate to boost incentives and tax benefits on electrified vehicles, by substantially subsidizing electricity used for charging EVs and Plug-in Hybrids. And raising taxes on gasoline to pay for it.
    7 Aug 2012, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • fflow
    , contributor
    Comments (38) | Send Message
     
    All the above comps assumes that the battery last for the life of the car. I understand that this is not true. What is the cost per mile of the battery?
    7 Aug 2012, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    "You understand"? On what basis? Someone said?

     

    Toyota has been making Prius for some 13 years, the typical useful life of a normal car, and there are no substantiated reports of massive numbers of batteries being replaced prematurely on warranty or off. Of course some Prius cars have been wrecked or otherwise damaged, which may have necessitated a battery swap. In any case, it is not like 90% of the batteries have had to get replacements after 5 or 6 years. More like 0%.

     

    Ford, in making hybrids for some 9 years, also has had no such issues with high voltage batteries, and has suggested the new lithium batteries are expected to last at least 10 years and 150,000 miles, maintaining something like 80% of original capacity.

     

    Of course you can always find a story or two here or there. There are Exceptions that Prove the Rule when it comes to anything in the automotive world, as folks find unusual ways to break their cars.
    7 Aug 2012, 09:06 PM Reply Like
  • Ryandan
    , contributor
    Comments (1594) | Send Message
     
    From what I've read the guess is battery replacement averaging around 8 years for Ford and GM.

     

    So do the numbers for me on cost of batteries factored back into mileage cost for 8 years. I'll let you cheat and do 10 years. Don't cheat and do it for more than that, because I've heard pessimist coming in at 6 to 7 years with heavy usage and those are people working for Ford. (I live in Detroit) Plus we have the retail factor of the car which is significant even with the government subsidy.

     

    Thanks - Ry (Notice, I haven't been negative for almost a week?)
    9 Aug 2012, 12:14 PM Reply Like
  • Ryandan
    , contributor
    Comments (1594) | Send Message
     
    Tdot

     

    I trust you for information more than the current CEO who I believe is becoming ineffective. We disagree on a lot of issues, but lately, we've been on the same train a few times.

     

    Thanks for the information. If you don't work for Ford you should, someone needs to get them off the merry-go-round. Ford and GM are using the same marketing techniques and business models for 100 years and the same ones they used to go bankrupt (or close to it). Management has been inbreed and incestuous for years. Asian companies have been eating them alive for years and they still drudge along like headless donkeys.

     

    The only thing that will help them improve is the economy, because management is clueless. After 100 years they should own the world but they don't. They don't even own the last 12 months.

     

    If you look at the volume of stock trades daily, I think the computers are playing with the stock because real investors wouldn't bother with the confusion.

     

    Thanks again for the info..............I think I'll stand back and see if you can get the train rolling again. (Could be a thankless job.....)

     

    8 Aug 2012, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • RP_NY
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    One other thing to consider regarding Hybrid/Electric Vehicles is the CRASH WORTHINESS of the Vehicle. It seems to me that these car do not look very strong.... IMO
    8 Aug 2012, 09:49 AM Reply Like
  • Tdot
    , contributor
    Comments (8905) | Send Message
     
    Well, looks can deceive.

     

    Ford, which owned Volvo for several years, was able to combine Volvo's legendary bullet proof crashworthy design philosophies with their own advanced in-house crash simulation systems to refine body designs to achieve 4-5 star crash ratings on virtually everything in the fleet nowadays.

     

    That said, yes any compact car or crossover that goes head on at 90 mph with a cement truck is most likely going to come out the loser. At some point even "best in world" crush zones and energy transfer structures and deflectors will yield to big enough energies. They won't survive a direct nuclear strike either, unfortunately.
    9 Aug 2012, 10:16 AM Reply Like
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