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"If Steve Jobs were still alive, would the new map application on the iPhone 5 be such an...

"If Steve Jobs were still alive, would the new map application on the iPhone 5 be such an unmitigated disaster?" asks Joe Nocera. It's a question many others are also asking, given the huge backlash to iOS 6 Maps. But to Nocera, a potentially bigger concern is that Jobs' absence will limit the risk-taking that drove Apple's (AAPL) meteoric rise. Joshua Topolsky: "The iPhone 5 is unquestionably the best iPhone ever made ... but right now Apple seems to be in a holding pattern, too comfortable or too scared to take real chances." (also: I, II)
Comments (266)


    Nocera is notoriously anti-apple. You cannot take anything he says seriously. I don't even bother to read his posts. It is one thing to raise critical questions; it is another to rant incessantly.


    These guys are just cruising for page-hits.


    For a real analysis of Maps and why it was critical - see my post:
    23 Sep 2012, 01:35 PM Reply Like
  • Oh, yeah, right! And what are you "cruising for"?
    23 Sep 2012, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • Good points. Apple certainly has the money to create whatever. They could have bought Nokia. Then we could have had a actual smart phone with great maps that makes and receives calls clearly.
    23 Sep 2012, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • oh..yeah...check this crappy the maps in iOS6 is !!!

    23 Sep 2012, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • All the map probs are international.... they'll fix 'em without any fallout except by those who want to create hysteria for cynical ends.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:46 PM Reply Like
  • Nonsense. The app sucks. Period.
    23 Sep 2012, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • Putting out a good maps app is not trivial and it takes a lot of time. Sticking it to Google is easy but being as good as Google without making the same investment is likely not going to happen.


    As these guys battle it out they will likely ship sub standard stuff as emotion will overcome reason.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • You guys don't get it.
    It's not supposed to be a working program. Apple did it for the lolz!


    iPhone users don't care about a GPS function. They can carry a Garmin in their other pocket, if they want to. :-P
    23 Sep 2012, 06:25 PM Reply Like
  • I agree with you.. From the article you would think that every single person on this earth is LOST and everyone is using maps on their iphone to find their way around!!!! Has anyone managed to find any defect with the iPhone 5 thus far?!! I didn't think so... The apps for the map can be easily fixed if need to but as I said earlier, I doubt very much that everyone who has bought an iphone walking or driving around to find their way to their destination using this app. Pathetic article..
    23 Sep 2012, 06:54 PM Reply Like
  • Hey, it just happens to be the "chicken little" story of choice for the media and writers....when the next iPad comes out, it'll be some other thing that signifies the disintegration of Apple....
    23 Sep 2012, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • You might be right, but with an even greater implication. Could it be that popular media is no longer enamored of all things Apple? It was not long ago that Apple could literally do no wrong, and was the darling of everyone. Makes me wonder how perceptions will be when the iPhone 5S is released.
    23 Sep 2012, 07:15 PM Reply Like
  • That's right, Herr.....Apple has gone from the underdog with groundbreaking products, to the evil empire monolith that the media has more fun tearing down than building up...


    ....but you know....I gotta give Apple their due...smartphones would not be what they have become without them raising the bar....and tablets might still be a fringe market if the iPad never existed....and I have owned both iPhones and iPads, and the quality of build and their capabilities have been astounding...they have been worth to me far more than they have costed, even at full retail....take away all iPads, and I would pay double to get them back...


    ....they are now the "Big Bad Apple Bully", but they are still putting out products that are well worth my dollar.....
    23 Sep 2012, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  • Definitely Apple have lifted the mobile phone sector, which benefits many companies. I'm not yet convinced there is a tablet market, because so far it appears to be only an iPad market, though perhaps that will change with all the new devices coming out in the next couple months.


    I'm disappointed enough with soldered in RAM on MacBook Pros that I am considering upgrading my existing MacBook Pro instead of buying a new one. However, I may get my mom an iMac she can use at home, because the screen and form factor are really nice. The iPad is just not compact enough for me to get one to replace carrying my MacBook Pro on business trips; plus I need the greater capabilities on a laptop. My current smartphone does everything I need it to accomplish.
    23 Sep 2012, 07:47 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, the truth is, my 4 does what I need it to do very well...but our subsidy model means that I still pay a lot of money per month, so I might as well upgrade to the 5.... Laptops are also currently good enough that I feel no need to upgrade, except improved power consumption and batteries would be a plus...


    I am waiting for the day when my iPad can do all my laptop can do....that day is getting closer and closer....they need to merge Mac OS with iOS more completely....but I can do a lot with the iPad, especially with the keyboard cases that are availlable aftermarket....I don't understand why Apple doesn't make a custom iPad case that accommodates their Bluetooth keyboard and allow for landscape orientation....I think that would sell very well.....
    23 Sep 2012, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • I think the reality is seeping in that Apple is pretty much like every other tech company when you rub the stars out of your eyes. The press tends to be overly fawning and then overly harsh so look out.


    And frankly Apple always held themselves up as the opposite of greedy MS and now they kind of look the same.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • Sounds like the Windows Surface RT tablet. ;)



    You might find that article of interest. John Abell indicates he thinks smaller tablets are the next great growth area. I would consider an iPad Mini, but given the pricing of the iPod Touch and the iPad, I don't see where that would fit in the Apple product line. After a couple more quarters, we may get some better data on the tablet market. Samsung appears to be going after "phablets", while most other companies are improving small tablets. The size factor would be purse size for women, and jacket pocket size for men. We shall see.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • @ Herr
    Oh, correct, the surface is similar to what I am thinking...I am skeptical of Microsoft's ability to execute, hope is that the surface spurs Apple to execute the concept well...remember, the tablet concept has been around almost a decade took Apple to implement the concept well enough that I would buy one.... If Microsoft can do as well as they did with the Xbox, then it may work....but their track record leads me to place them in the "show me first" category....


    You know that I think things through in detail....I have studied Apple more than any other company, including RIM....and there is no one out there like Apple.....if you look at my most recent comments, I do not view Apple as infallible or as perfection, and there are more complaints that I have than I have written about....but, I think that any objective analysis of the company, it's execution, it's innovation, and its market position and room for further growth, would show Apple to be without peers.....


    Don't overdo the bearishness or skepticism, Tomas....those are good tools to mitigate risk, but taking it too far causes missed opportunities, sometimes big misses....the key, like in most things, is balance....RIM and Apple are almost polar opposites in their businesses and as far as strengths and weaknesses....because of this, I have always played RIM short and AAPL long (with one exception where I went long RIMM for a very short time)....and those have been absolutely the best trades that I have come across....EVER....


    The RIM trade will end much sooner than the AAPL trade as far as valuation and viability.....and so, I must seek out more terrible companies to short....
    23 Sep 2012, 08:33 PM Reply Like
  • Ronin


    I was commenting on the shifting perception of Apple not whether or not they are a good investment. I experienced MS through its buildup from a small nothing to a juggernaut that transformed the workplace and the desktop. What they did is overlooked which is very typical of human behavior and they went from darling to SOB's eventually. Apple will get the same treatment especially if they are hostile to everyone, sensitive to criticism and want to sue for everything. MS did not do much of the latter but was definitely the first two. What Apple forgets is that everyone you sue is a darling of someone else so if you sue everyone the number of people out to get you mounts. And hostility and sensitivity is not a communication strategy.


    Having said that I think they could double from here but then again there are smaller cap stocks that could double or triple over the next few years that I would rather play with and spread my bets.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:40 PM Reply Like
  • Sounds good Tomas, I agree that smaller companies will have an easier time doubling than AAPL....I believe AAPL has one more left in them trading rules permit me to go far more overweight on certain trades than you would ever approve for me, there is a substantial difference in safety between a small cap spec stock and AAPL...I can see that for you, that difference is minimized by your trading rules and diversification....lmk if you find good ones, especially great shorts.... :)
    23 Sep 2012, 08:54 PM Reply Like
  • Herr,
    My thought is that the right price point for an iPad mini is around $299....that will make them both competitive (yet, a bit higher), and will also give them a good 30-35% profit margin....


    The iPod comparison pricing will need to be adjusted to accommodate the tablet, as it is far more crucial strategically than the iPod touch....just my opinion, of course.....
    23 Sep 2012, 09:00 PM Reply Like
  • My iPhone 4S is now running turn by turn direction on the new map app. It runs very well and the voice sounds very natural and a lot clearer than on my Tom Tom, which I just put into retirement.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:01 PM Reply Like
  • And you can have your old iPhone 4 unlocked and resold for a pretty nice bundle.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:04 PM Reply Like
  • Probably not until mid to late next year, if ever. Unless 7" tablet sales take off, I just do not see Apple bringing out an iPad Mini. The margins just are not that great. It would acknowledge that other companies have the correct strategy of smaller tablets.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:15 PM Reply Like
  • When Microsoft reached its peak in the late 90s, it had achieved a 99% control of the desktop market even though a lot of the users were pretty much disenchanted with Windows, but had to use it at work because that is what the IT people dictated. Apple is far from achieving this kind of market share and its users choose to do so by choice. My guess is that Apple is a much stickier company and still have plenty of room to grow.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • How did you like my JPM call? That wasn't small but I nailed it.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:18 PM Reply Like
  • Yep, good job Tomas!!!
    JPM was a good call, gutsy too....I'm already too long though, keep me updated on good ideas, going forward though...
    23 Sep 2012, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • Herr,
    I get what you mean by perception about following the competition, but I would say that Apple needs to rise above that and do what is strategically cede the 7" market because of pride is just plain idiotic....if they do that, THAT is precisely the tyoe of errors that will get me questioning Apple's competency....not NFC or maps, but major strategic errors is what I am watching for....


    and based on supplier leaks, the mini is coming very soon, I think it has passed the point of just rumor....they were correct on every aspect of the I will go with what is being said on the mini for now....
    23 Sep 2012, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • Could do no wrong? Maybe you forgot when the first iPad was released. It was panned by most all the media and most of the so called experts. However, it was soon loved buy the people. They bought and loved what they bought. The map? I have a iPhone 4S. I almost never use it. When out I use the GPS in my car. Before I go out I use my iPad. I don't think maps are the primary reason people buy a iPhone. I purchased my iPhone because I had an android phone and the apps rarely worked. I tried ESPN once an waited for five minutes and it still did not bring up the screen. My iPhone works, plain and simple. I will never go back.
    23 Sep 2012, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • The day when your iPad can equal your laptop is soon here. It's called the Microsoft Surface
    24 Sep 2012, 12:06 AM Reply Like
  • Vix,
    Surface may be well done, or it might suck...but, I'm unlikely to dump both my iPad and my iPhone that is on the way, all for a Microsoft product...I spent too many years paying for frequent MS office and Windows upgrades that I neither wanted or needed...


    I expect Apple to bite the bullet and cut into their Mac lines...disrupt themselves....they did it with the iPhone, canabalizing their iPods....Id like them to do it again, this time with the iPad....
    24 Sep 2012, 12:20 AM Reply Like
  • Just bought my first iPad. Seems like an alright device. But when I went to my favorite golf instruction website,, a great site loaded with many helpful instructional videos, I couldn't watch any of them because iPad doesn't support flash. Is there a way around this? Seems like a big drawback.
    24 Sep 2012, 02:09 AM Reply Like
  • "I couldn't watch any of them because iPad doesn't support flash. Is there a way around this? Seems like a big drawback."


    No, it's not a drawback at all. Apple made sure flash is dead, so you just need to find the same videos in another format. Pretty easy, eh?


    Apple always knows what's best for the consumer. You may think you want to see flash videos but you really don't. It's all in your head.
    24 Sep 2012, 03:19 AM Reply Like
  • Wow, that was helpful...just another opportunity to bash Apple, huh mitrado? That's not helpful at all to either investors and consumers, just fulfilling your negative emotions...Are you employed by the competition, or is there a particular reason for such strong bias and hatred? Literally every comment you make shows what's the deal?
    24 Sep 2012, 03:49 AM Reply Like
  • Have I told anything which ain't true, Ronin?


    Apple killed flash... so if you're an Apple fan, why in the hell would you want to use it? Makes no sense.


    (One of these days, Apple users will want to run Windows from their Macs or something weird like that.)
    24 Sep 2012, 03:59 AM Reply Like
  • You haven't answered my question....what is your agenda? I am an AAPL investor...your constant bashing is not helpful, nor does it represent anything close to objective're just being unpleasant constantly...your comments need to have an "I despise anything Apple" attached....


    You make no attempt to conceal your utter now I am asking you what is behind all of that....reasonable question....
    24 Sep 2012, 04:12 AM Reply Like
  • "nor does it represent anything close to objective truth"


    Well, Ronin, I really thought I had the right answer, but apparently, I'm wrong. My bad, sorry.
    Then you go ahead and please tell me the objective truth, so I can be better informed. Why doesn't the IPad run flash videos?


    My agenda? I don't have any particular agenda. My preference for companies changes accordingly to their attitudes and offered products/services.


    I used to love Apple but... but that phase has passed.
    I used to despise Microsoft and that ended as well.


    I guess I just go with the flow and tend to love what I believe to be the best offers, at any given time, by whatever company...


    If Apple changes its ways and goes back to being the great company I used to love, don't be surprised to see me returning and saying they are great. But at the moment, I can't do that as Apple keeps disappointing me more and more.
    24 Sep 2012, 04:42 AM Reply Like
  • As far as flash....yeah Apple made the decision not to support flash, and even Adobe has moved on....but that is not what I am talking about...I was obviously not referring to this one comment...


    Here's the objective truth: You showed up on AAPL articles less than a month ago, with this attitude...Apple has a ton of positives as well as some negatives, some of which I have recently mentioned....your comments are so heavily biased and lacking balance that it is disruptive rather than helpful...

  constantly expressing your contempt, it only serves to irritate certainly aren't saving people from a bad investment or doing anything that could be construed as constructive...and it certainly isn't the intent if this forum to just be airing your personal frustrations....perhaps you can go and attack Apple on some Nokia or RIM website where it will be'll be supported and applauded there.....
    24 Sep 2012, 04:56 AM Reply Like
  • "Here's the objective truth: You showed up on AAPL articles less than a month ago, with this attitude..."


    Sorry for that, Ronin, but Nokia has part of the blame for it.
    If Nokia hadn't come up with a smartphone that can be compared to the iPhone, I probably would never had commented on any AAPL related thread at all.


    "You certainly aren't saving people from a bad investment or doing anything that could be construed as constructive..."


    I'm just giving my opinions, you don't have to agree with them.


    Also, you should never, ever, ever invest on any stock by filtering out all the noise coming from people who dislike that particular company. Listening to all sides is a very important thing to do. Listening only to bulls or listening only to bears will achieve nothing.


    I don't consider AAPL a bad investment for now but I don't know (and I don't want to bet) when this Apple trend will end. At the moment, Apple can mess up quite a lot as that won't affect its stock performance, since Apple has enough fans to give them millions of $$ in profits... but I doubt they can keep it up for long.
    Apple need to regroup and rethink some of its strategies to return being the magnifique company they used to be.


    "personal frustrations....perhaps you can go and attack Apple on some Nokia or RIM website where it will be'll be supported and applauded there....."


    Who said I criticize Apple in order to be supported or applauded?
    All I want is to see a good and fair attitude from every company, as that is usually the best for the end users.
    I feel the patent wars (that Apple insist on pursuing) and Apple's very recent laissez-fare attitude are not good for competition and technology progress.
    24 Sep 2012, 05:36 AM Reply Like
  • Okay, well at least I know where you are coming from....that was an honest response.....I have disliked Microsoft as a consumer for years now....but I don't feel compelled to go to Microsoft investors and blast everything about Microsoft....what purpose does that serve except to irritate them? Sorry for being so frank, the negatively emotionally charged stuff can wear on me after a while....


    With Apple, there are positives that they have brought to technology and in initiating and leading the mobile computing has brought a lot of value to people, including those using devices by competitors....


    I deliberately try not to filter out negative info, I actually take note of information that makes logical sense to me and seems likely to have an effect on the stock in either the short-term or the long-term....I have many conversations with some who are cautious or even bearish..


    If it helps any, know that I dislike constant overly emotional and zealousness by Apple bulls as well, especially when they suddenly attack other reasonable commenters....I don't like some things that Apple does either.....for instance, I think that the least Apple could have done with the connector transition would be to include an adaptor with each product for a while....I think it is bad for customer relations to do otherwise....


    As an investor, for the time being, there seems to be a lot of positive catalysts coming...and Tim Cook's performance has been much better than I expected....but, I am watching the strategic decisions Apple is making and evaluating them for early signs of will see some of these come out in some of my comments....


    Btw, I play Nokia, sometimes short, sometimes long.....they have a good product from what I can tell...I wonder if they will do well or if they have taken way too long to play catch up...they probably would do okay if it was only Apple, but Android is taking up too much of the air in the room, and that may hurt Nokia... the outcome will probably be decided by consumers soon....
    24 Sep 2012, 06:21 AM Reply Like
  • Yes, Nokia delivered an awesome product... and for all the cool stuff they fit inside it, I don't think the size difference towards iPhone is the least bothering:


    Last year I was very sceptical about Windows Phone and I didn't get in NOK simply because they've used Windows, not Android.


    Later on, after reading a lot of reviews and seeing some of my friends using it, I've changed my mind.
    It's very different from what most people are used to. I should know, since I've been using all kinds of OS for the last 3 decades (I've tried everything from DOS to Windows, Mac OS, QNX, Linux, Amiga OS...)


    Nevertheless, I've overcomed my prejudice against Microsoft and realized Windows Phone is an excellent interface for small devices, very intuitive, configurable and easy to read, particularly for people with vision problems.
    I'm a bit astonished that Microsoft has come up with such an idea. Coming from them, I was expecting Windows Phone would come out to be very similar to Android/iOS.
    At the moment, WP might look a bit awkward for people used to Android or iOS, but I think that happens with idea that breaks a established status quo... in this case, the 3 decade old concept of aligned icons.


    Only time will tell if this new interface will be successful. As every new idea, it might gain traction... or simply fade into oblivion.
    As you refer, it will be both consumers and developers to decide its fate, not Wall Street investors or analysts.


    Either bearish or bullish, I don't think anyone can be very sure about which way things will go for Nokia and Windows Phone...
    and that's why it bothers me to see some users here condemning Nokia to failure, with such a high degree of certainty.


    All things considered, we can only guess.


    PS: You might not believe but 2 decades ago, I was one of those kids who referred to MS as being Micro$oft. I guess I grew up.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:09 AM Reply Like
  • "Is there a way around this?"


    Manolive, what the haters don't want to tell you is that, yes, there is a way around this. You need to get a browser for your iPad that supports flash:



    But having said that, I should say that mobile flash is no longer being supported and many mobile devices do not support flash. The industry is coming around to what Apple said two years ago -- that flash is not a good mobile platform. (The Surface -- when it becomes available -- will not support flash, so this is not an Apple "problem".) You may want to contact those who run your golf site and let them know you want videos in a mobile format. If they get enough feedback they are likely to see it is in their best interest to get current.


    But this is not a thing big bad Apple did to the web, the existing video standard (flash) was simply woefully inadequate for anyone trying to play video using the least possible data and processing power. Things are changing in video standards largely because Apple took the lead. But if Apple hadn't done it, someone else (probably Microsoft) would have. The haters talk like losing flash was some sort of crime. In fact it was shedding old dead skin of the desktop era for something more suitable for mobile. Tech improvements require change and anyone who tries to treat this change as an oversight or gaffe has an agenda.
    24 Sep 2012, 10:31 AM Reply Like
  • "You may think you want to see flash videos but you really don't. It's all in your head."


    Is this your line for why the Surface will not support flash as well?
    24 Sep 2012, 10:34 AM Reply Like
  • "Is this your line for why the Surface will not support flash as well?"


    You guys just can't take a joke. :-P
    24 Sep 2012, 11:01 AM Reply Like
  • When someone as biased as you are against Apple says it, it's not a joke, it's a diatribe. It's a joke if you make fun of Nokia :)


    ... although NOK was its own punchline last year, I suppose...


    (I'm long NOK and just bought more seconds ago... as I think it is returning to bargain territory.)
    24 Sep 2012, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • Don't take it so personally, please. I know I'm kind of crazy sometimes but don't let anything I write get onto your nerves, specially when I'm not being serious... :-P


    I have a small bet on Nokia but not interested in buying more unless it falls below $2 again (which I doubt). This is a long-term play, I don't want to keep much money glued onto it.


    As an investment, I'm considering getting into IRBT, again.
    Anyone looking into them? One of their latest products uses iPad as its "brain" --- looks pretty cool!
    24 Sep 2012, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • There is a huge market for tablets. It's causing major damage to the laptop market. Soon there will be many tablets other than iPads and in time the tablet will evolve to replace laptops for most applications.
    24 Sep 2012, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • That's what I have been anticipating for some time now....tablets replacing most laptops....they are compact and easy to carry around, low power consumption, and not nearly as hot running to need special equipment to have it in your hands or lap.....


    I think that the iPad mini may cause problems for the other tablets though.....
    24 Sep 2012, 03:46 PM Reply Like
  • Not completely true with Surface. What is not supported is direct implementation of touch in Flash apps. Flash will also not work in the default Internet Explorer browser.



    In desktop mode, or with a different browser, Flash based web content will still be viewable. Also, Adobe are working on a Flash server, which will convert older content on the fly for streaming delivery to mobile devices.
    24 Sep 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • Try writing an article to that effect and the Microsoft lovers jump out of the woodwork pointing out how Windows 8 will lead a renaissance in tablets, desktops, and laptops.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • I've written a few articles about Windows 8, including one that was my most popular article. I don't "love" companies nor products, because they are inanimate objects. "Love" is a term that should be reserved for very important and special people in your life, not things.


    I would expect MSFT to do well with Windows 8. At the moment shares are high, so I would wait for a market pull-back prior to investing. I have no idea if I would ever buy a Windows 8 product, though I am curious enough to go try out the Surface when it is introduced.
    24 Sep 2012, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • "'Love' is a term that should be reserved for very important and special people in your life, not things."


    I love that comment...
    24 Sep 2012, 09:24 PM Reply Like
  • It seems to me that Apple's principal legitimate flaw is a lack of communication. The vector approach to mapping is from a technical and usability point of view superior to bit mapping.


    I experience This firsthand. I have a rather poor Internet connection and the Maps load much faster. They had to Try and provide a map service to their customers. Google was going to lessen the user experience for those customers by not including turn by turn directions. No one is talking about this.


    No one is really discussing how Superior crowdsourcing is to any other method of data refinement.
    I believe that if the consumer understood both how difficult the Enterprise is and how quickly it can be accomplished any of this residual negative feeling would dissipate.
    25 Sep 2012, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • This is a Norm MacDonald comment.
    25 Sep 2012, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks DM, I'll check it out. I really appreciate the input.
    25 Sep 2012, 12:01 PM Reply Like
  • @mitrado


    "You guys don't get it.
    It's not supposed to be a working program. Apple did it for the lolz!"


    I did laugh out loud when I read that.. funny!


    Part 2 is almost as funny, although maybe you could have tied in the iPhone's thinness or super light weight as a justification for carrying the Garmin. Actually, that would be a funny-ass YouTube video:


    The title would be something like "Fixing your iPhone's map"
    Then the video would show how to duct tape a Garmin to the backside of your iPhone! haha!


    This idea copyright(C) Luke Tomasello :-)
    27 Sep 2012, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • @selimthesot


    I see you got 4 likes, congratulations :)


    A couple points though:


    "Has anyone managed to find any defect with the iPhone 5 thus far?!! I didn't think so..."


    Well, actually yeah. Here is a list of the top 9 complaints:


    "The apps for the map can be easily fixed if need"


    Incorrect-o! I see you know nothing about mapping databases .. it's a huge deal and very hard to collect. It's not as if an engineer can stay up all night and 'fix a bug'.
    28 Sep 2012, 12:02 AM Reply Like


    You might like that video about the iPhone 5
    28 Sep 2012, 12:05 AM Reply Like
  • Howdy Ronin...


    Well, it's unfair and unfortunate but the bar for apple is way higher than for anyone else.


    Apple has in many ways done this to themselves by perpetuating their snob appeal.
    Apple isn't an every-man's phone, not like HTC, Samsung, Nokia, LG, etc.. they are something *special* and as such they will get scrutinized far more than any other smartphone manufacturer.
    28 Sep 2012, 12:09 AM Reply Like
  • I don't care what it is reserved for....but I would love for one of my astrologically high beta penny stocks /co.s to be
    28 Sep 2012, 12:10 AM Reply Like
  • @mitrado


    again you made me laugh.. you're on a roll man!
    28 Sep 2012, 12:21 AM Reply Like
  • Generally, I try not to insult your preferences because it's more fun for us to get along....which trumps any desire to bad mouth certain stocks....have fun....I don't think Scott nor I will be laughing much though....
    28 Sep 2012, 12:29 AM Reply Like
  • mud slung is ground lost......
    28 Sep 2012, 01:35 AM Reply Like
  • Someone should create a Twitter feed entitled Apple maps is really okay. I use them in the backwoods America, I've used them to investigate Hungarian geography I have heard reliable reports of them being used in the Dominican Republic in Prague again reliably... yesterday it led me to local businesses some of which only been at their current locations for a month or two... this is fine people.


    More to the point, 500 million uses in a week that number will only grow and even if it doesn't accelerate, that's 26 billion data points per year approximately. That's a foundation to build upon.
    28 Sep 2012, 03:58 PM Reply Like
    28 Sep 2012, 04:03 PM Reply Like
  • Maybe I have more patience than author, less than 1 year since Jobs has been gone and "it seems to be in holding pattern". Really?
    23 Sep 2012, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • I just don't understand these "articles"... or news tidbits, whatever they are.


    Amongst other "failures", Steve Jobs oversaw the release of Mobile Me, iPhone 4's antenna issues and Ping.


    And surely "people" realize he was the one who called out the war on Android. Very likely it was under his tenure that the in-house maps movement started and gained traction.


    Anyone suggesting that Jobs had the ability to make maps perfect in the time allotted (namely before the end of the GOOG/AAPL contract) is kidding themselves for the sake of a headline.
    23 Sep 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • for your information....why would you want to push unfinished or buggy features to customers? Steve Jobs would have never let it happen

    23 Sep 2012, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • It was the iPhone 4 release a year earlier not the 4s.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • Wha? "unmitigated" ? That means it's an "absolute disaster?"
    Guy has a screw loose or he's out to distort things for his own purpose
    I bet appl maps are pretty good. Info comes from DGI now the best satellite mapping Co going (also a great stock) ! Apple's maps are good now and will be the best sooner than it can make a difference.
    23 Sep 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like


    Nice Tumblr compilation here. When I first saw this page, there was no Alexa rank. Yesterday the Alexa rank was near 100k and today it is near 30k. These are all actual problems submitted by other people. Some are quite hilarious, while others are just sad.


    To be fair, Google Maps has been in continuous development for quite some time. Apple licenses TomTom, so the navigation should be better, but some of the other aspects are not working well. Also, it does appear most of the issues are happening outside the U.S.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • And oh the irony...


    Joshua Topolsky: "The iPhone 5 is unquestionably the best iPhone ever made ... but right now Apple seems to be in a holding pattern, too comfortable or too scared to take real chances."


    Um, yeah... So on one hand Apple moved to in-house maps likely before they were ready to do so. On the other hand, they're not taking any real chances.


    Confusing, to say the least. ;-)
    23 Sep 2012, 01:48 PM Reply Like
  • Kenn,


    When you replace an existing feature with an inferior feature that is not considered innovative - that's called stupid.


    It is a measure of the cult-like power of the company that its users would defend it rather than criticize it for lowering the quality of the user's experience. Eventually, however this type of behavior sows the seeds of its eventual downfall.
    23 Sep 2012, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • I doubt if anyone who has used the new maps app wouldn't say overall it is far superior to the Google maps app. I certainly do. I wouldn't go back.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:08 PM Reply Like
    23 Sep 2012, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • The iMap application is NOT a disaster. There are a few bugs, but every new software has them.
    23 Sep 2012, 01:55 PM Reply Like


    Much more than a few bugs. The errors continue to pile up daily. These are actual submissions.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Tumblr is never a valid reference.
    23 Sep 2012, 04:54 PM Reply Like
  • Really? Can you prove some of those examples wrong?
    23 Sep 2012, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • I tried the Istanbul one and got a totally different more accurate view, hmmm?
    23 Sep 2012, 09:53 PM Reply Like
  • That Tumblr is open submission, and there are a ton of screenshots there. Definitely contact them. Seriously though, it is not the only place on the internet showing these, and I highly doubt these are faked. If I had not seen errors on 3D view with my own eyes, I would not have believed it.
    23 Sep 2012, 10:05 PM Reply Like
  • If Apple had kept Google Maps, everyone would be complaining that the Apple Map program couldn't give turn by turn GPS like Android phones do. That's because Google wouldn't provide that feature to Apple. I expect that over the next year Apple upgrades will correct the problem. Meanwhile if you want you can still download and use Google Maps on your iPhone 5.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • It is long past time for the "What if Steve Jobs were alive?" questions to stop, in my opinion.


    Any bugs in iMap application will be fixed via updating, I would imagine. This would be no different than any other app.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • yep they can't move on.....When people think of going to Disneyland do they first say...Gee I wonder if its not going to be a good vacation ....Walts not alive anymore...
    28 Sep 2012, 04:39 PM Reply Like
  • @deercreek


    The map application is very different than most other applications.
    If I have a bug in my music player an engineer can sit down and 'fix the bug', but if the map database (huge) is erroneous or incomplete, there is no 'bug' to fix.


    Do you see the difference? It's a data collection/validation exercise. It takes outside data.. outside of the app itself.
    28 Sep 2012, 05:58 PM Reply Like
  • You could think of a map program as having thousands of minor bugs to fix....the program wil constantly improve over time. Google had a lot of problems too, and their Maps improved over time. Google is far from perfect too....they have some inaccuracies that one of the businesses that I am a customer of, repeatedly called for months...Google never fixed it, and new customers always get lost.
    28 Sep 2012, 06:25 PM Reply Like
  • Do any of you realize how important Maps is to the future of Apple and Google. Think about it. I Think there is a very good possibility that Apple will correct the bugs and create a very good application.
    They may even elect to monetize the application. What do you think?
    23 Sep 2012, 02:16 PM Reply Like
  • Just went on a trip to new parts of my world using new maps function. Worked just fine. Turn by turn directions are at least as good as the google maps from my laptop. The full google maps is still buggy and still gives bad turn by turn directions at least 1/3rd of the time. I imagine apple will do better in time. Apple's programmers are, in general at least a full class better than those at google. This ios6 hullaballoo strikes me more and more as shorts desperately trying to avoid the surge that a huge opening for that crappy product, the iPhone 5, is likely to give the stock. So far they have been successful but aapl is now like a coiled spring -- you can keep pushing it down but it is, in my opinion, likely to burst upwards fairly soon.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Long options are almost 2:1 short options at the moment. The people on the internet who appear to be complaining about maps are end users, who want better product performance.



    Just remember that these people posting the map failures are using iOS 6, which means they own some form of iDevice. They are all Apple customers.
    23 Sep 2012, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • Herr, so the options market is anticipating more upside on the stock in the near-term....are they usually good or poor prognosticators, is that an indicator or a counter indicator in your opinion?
    23 Sep 2012, 03:27 PM Reply Like
  • Tough to gauge options activity as a predictor of stock movement. When options activity is very high, with a large percentage of open interest, then the activity prediction seems more accurate. However, there are few major companies with a large amount of open interest, and at the moment certainly not AAPL shares. Remember that many positions are not held until expiration. Over a longer term, the track record of options guiding share movement is quite poor, almost to the level of being a good contrary indicator.


    It really is just another factor, and I think there are far better indicators. What is interesting is to see some analysts price targets go up, but not see a change in earning estimates also go up. Of course if the companies where those analysts work have long options positions, then a higher price target may cause the value of those options to appreciate. At the moment there is nearly nothing illegal about that.
    23 Sep 2012, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • rather than looking at option volume alone, you should look at the resulting IV and trends. If IV is trending down (and it is), then the stock price is likely to continue its uptrend (and it is).
    Later on, If the stock crashes and IV increases, then it is a normal and expected behavior and the stock will form a down trend. But if the stock dips but IV decreases (and I've seen Apple do this a few times) then it's a signal for reversal back up (and we should buy the dip).
    What I find option volume useful, is when I'm trying to guess which strike price the Apple will pin to (it tends to gravitate toward a strike price toward the Friday close due to options expiration) Market makers and large participants usually have the ability to manipulate the stock a few points toward the strike, and they'd choose a strike with highest open interest volume.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:54 PM Reply Like
  • @Glenn


    "Just went on a trip to new parts of my world using new maps function. Worked just fine. Turn by turn directions are at least as good as the google maps from my laptop. The full google maps is still buggy and still gives bad turn by turn directions at least 1/3rd of the time."


    Yeah, you're the only one then...
    It's now very well documented Apple's maps are full on crap. Saying their are at least as good as Google's is just disingenuous.


    Also, there is scuffgate


    And now purplegate (camera hardware failure)


    I'm not short Apple, but as an investor I'm raising a flag to serious problems with the iPhone 5 and IMHO, Apple in general.
    28 Sep 2012, 10:52 AM Reply Like
  • Please, Luke. Scuffgate? The fact that if you key your phone it will scratch it?


    When you say, "as an investor" you mean in general right? Because it sounds like you are saying you are long AAPL, but I don't think you are, are you?


    And if you're speaking in general "as an investor" about "problems with Apple" it sounds like you are suggesting it is not a good investment? Is this what you're saying, because "as an investor" I have found these kind of assessments fun to revisit the following year.


    This is antennagate all over again. Right down to the slightly late apology by the CEO. It confirms for everyone that already believes that Apple is a sinking ship exactly what they already think. And for the general consumer it appears to be nothing but a distraction that will hardly be remembered in a year or two.


    Apple can't have it both ways. They can't be the greatest consumer electronics company in the world and not get viral scrutiny about such revelations as "aluminum can be scratched with a key". But they have to live with that. And any other company would love to be in that position. If it turned out that one of Nokia's Lumia 920 colored cases faded prematurely in uneven blotches, can you imagine the outrage that would spread all over the internet? Yeah, me neither.


    The outpouring of criticism Apple receives for any imperfection, real or imagined, is not actually a sign of trouble. It is a sign of their on going dominance of the consumer electronics market. The day something happens at Apple and the internet shrugs? That will be the day they are in trouble.
    28 Sep 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • I think you listen to too much over-hyped blogging. We use maps on phones when going somewhere. In the US the new maps works pretty well. It screws up in Australia and especially in England, in very humorous and bloggable ways.


    But the google maps application the new apple maps replaces was godawful -- it had no turn-by-turn making it useless at best and dangerous at worst to use while driving. And google would not give apple the full turn-by-turn app that is used in Android.


    And even the full turn-by-turn google maps program you can get on a laptop is full of bugs and problems to this day -- better than it was last year or the year before for sure. But still gets a direction challenged dude like myself lost on a regular basis.


    Did apple release this thing a bit prematurely? Sure. Is it the end of the world? Of course not. Does it work reasonably well in US -- yes it does -- half a billion map searches to date -- if it didn't work reasonably well everyone would have already stopped using it.


    The entire iPhone + apps artifact is possibly the most complex and sophisticated artifact available for sale to the general public. It is mostly software and as software gets more complex it becomes increasingly impossible for anyone or any company to make it totally bug free. The consumer does the last bit of debugging -- Think of those incredibly buggy windows opsys. Or the first version of any complicated game.


    Apple is better than anyone else but far, far from perfect. I can get my iMac to crash if I really try. That's just life.
    28 Sep 2012, 12:13 PM Reply Like
  • Wonderfully said DM.
    28 Sep 2012, 12:16 PM Reply Like
  • DM, I think you are ignoring some pretty significant numbers:


    "MacRumors posted an informal poll on its website that shows more than 36% of nearly 1,400 new iPhone 5 owners have scratches that were evident on their device as soon as they took it out of the box."


    That's significant. I don't know about you, but when I bring something home I want it 'like new'.


    I will agree that Apple is scrutinized more than all other smartphone manufacturers, but that's partially because of the aura of perfection and glam Apple has helped to build.


    With regard to Apple being a good investment, that is for the individual to determine; personally I do not think so, not at these levels and especially with the lack of innovation and quality going into the iPhone 5.
    28 Sep 2012, 01:49 PM Reply Like
  • They had a similar issue with one of the iPod versions years ago, prior to the iPhone launch. That episode resulted in a class action lawsuit.

    28 Sep 2012, 01:53 PM Reply Like
  • I own a black Honda Accord. If I use my keys to scratch the door on the driver side, it will show, my goodness, scratches! Does that mean Honda makes lousy cars?


    Ugggh...plastic covers, anyone?
    28 Sep 2012, 03:00 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, Honda make lousy cars. ;)


    The antenna issue of the iPhone 4 was solved with free covers. It would be an easy solution for Apple to offer those. There are too many underworked lawyers in California already, so a class action lawsuit is probably too tempting for some of them. So now we will wait to see how quickly Apple responds.
    28 Sep 2012, 03:45 PM Reply Like
  • sfphoto


    The complaints are coming from Apple's customers
    28 Sep 2012, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • @Luke


    Try this for the iPhone 5:

    28 Sep 2012, 07:01 PM Reply Like
  • "36% of nearly 1,400 new iPhone 5 owners have scratches that were evident on their device as soon as they took it out of the box"


    Or, put another way, 652 people claim to have scratches on a phone they say they just purchased. Forgive me if I'm not blown away by that notion.


    When you drop this phone, it will surely scratch, but will it break? Probably not as likely as the 4s. Apple made a design decision and chose not to do a glass back this time, no doubt to add much needed strength to the very small frame. Aluminum does scratch. There's no doubt about that. Not sure that rises to the level of scandal. If 36% of people who buy this phone really are receiving a scratched product, that is a real problem. (That would be 3 million phones by now.) But some informal survey that doesn't even make you prove you bought a phone in the first place is probably not the way to assess the magnitude of this problem.
    28 Sep 2012, 09:05 PM Reply Like
  • "They had a similar issue with one of the iPod versions years ago, "


    In that case it was the screen that was said to be prone to scratching. Interestingly, the original lawsuit named a person who said he never agreed to be named as the plaintiff. The lawyers bringing suit refused to remove his name and threatened to sue him for attempting to interfere with their suit. Not the most pristine example of lawyers acting in good faith. Apple settled what was bound to be a costly distraction for 22.5 million. Remember they also settled with ProView and re-purchased the license they had already bought for the iPad name in China. That was 60 million.


    Apple has a tendency to be very strategic about these cases. It would not surprise me if some law firm is salivating over the opportunity to sue them over the iPhone 5. That would not in and of itself mean there was any merit to the case, however.
    28 Sep 2012, 09:15 PM Reply Like
  • TheUglyTruth..... in one of his latest columns provided a link to a samuing/ aapl drop test video on youtube, from pocket height ear height and top of head height aapl won hands down...
    28 Sep 2012, 09:23 PM Reply Like
  • "MacRumors posted an informal poll on its website that shows more than 36% of nearly 1,400 new iPhone 5 owners have scratches that were evident on their device as soon as they took it out of the box."


    Why should I believe an "informal poll"? More FUD?
    28 Sep 2012, 10:53 PM Reply Like
  • Lawyers look for opportunity. In my ownership of Apple products, I have been part of two other class action lawsuits. Each one was settled, and I was given credit to spend in the Apple Store. Neither of those was for an iPod. I'm sure the lawyers made out quite well in each case.
    29 Sep 2012, 01:15 AM Reply Like
  • FUD against Apple on MacRumors site...? Yeah, that makes sense. For sure.
    29 Sep 2012, 08:41 PM Reply Like
  • "I own a black Honda Accord. If I use my keys to scratch the door on the driver side, it will show, my goodness, scratches! Does that mean Honda makes lousy cars?"


    Analogies are always fun... but most of the times are completely misleading.


    Honda gets easily scratched, just like every other competitor...
    IPhone gets easily scratched, unlike some other competitors...


    See the difference?
    29 Sep 2012, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • Mitrado,
    since you seem already overly bearish, I hate to direct you to more negative info, but, actually, Apple sites have many articles which are far from complimentary of Apple:




    I try to make it a point to read the positive and negative stuff....
    29 Sep 2012, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • Making the map program from the bottom up, will be cheaper and better than buying another company or renewing a license from Google, Apple made the right decision long term, after all Microsoft is better off with Bing and Bing Maps (three-four years ago), than paying 30 billion for Yahoo and doing the same amount of work on another source code after the purchase anyway.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:48 PM Reply Like
  • I am sure that Google maps was not a finished product when it was introduced. Just give Apple some time and I believe they will have a good product.
    23 Sep 2012, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • Like my thunderbolt interface?
    23 Sep 2012, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • Thunderbolt is great. I've got a high res monitor (not Apple's) that is hot swappable between my MBP and any other TB computer. It makes my laptop a true desktop replacement that's portable.


    A little 11" MacBook Air will display at full high resolution 2560x1440 on this 27" monitor because of TB - looks awesome.


    I don't have an iPhone, but Nocera is the only one who says the iPhone 5 is a disaster. Most of Nocera's articles are worthless anyway so why make a big deal about this one.


    Agreed, it was a lame move to dispense with Google Maps. Google already has an app, the question is how long will it take Apple to accept it. I think customers will decide for Apple.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:47 PM Reply Like
  • Yes, Google has an Map app for iOS but it seems they made it an incomplete version and that's probably one of the reasons for Apple ditching it... Since Apple started a war with Google, these things are bound to happen. It will only get worse.
    24 Sep 2012, 03:25 AM Reply Like
  • Just went to an Apple Store and tried the new iPhone 5. Only one word can describe it:




    The iPhone 5 is destined to become the standard upon which all other smartphones will be judged. No need for useless features, geeky design, unwanted stuff. Just great design, clean look and really, really fast.


    Now about the Apple Maps...too much ado about nothing. The problem is not with the app itself although it has some problems rendering 3D bridges but the map data which Apple sourced from TomTom. With cloudsourcing, I have no doubt Apple will improve the accuracy of the map data but the real culprit here shouldn't be Apple but TomTom.


    Will the Apple Maps "fiasco" hurt sales of the iPhone 5?


    Not likely. After all, there are dozens of third-party Maps apps available but one thing that Apple did right, I think, is to get rid of Google Maps.


    Hasta la vista, Google!
    23 Sep 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • "but right now Apple seems to be in a holding pattern, too comfortable or too scared to take real chances."


    Not including NFC in this release is another excellent example of this mindset.


    Innovators lead they don't follow - without Jobs AAPL is becoming a follower.
    23 Sep 2012, 03:40 PM Reply Like
  • The "app" for maps is miserable. Jobs would have 1. kicked ass, 2. canned somebody, 3. not released it. The acolyte gets some thing right but this is not one of them.
    23 Sep 2012, 03:53 PM Reply Like
  • You mean waiting another year with the release of original iPhone to give Adobe one more year to get Flash right on mobile? Jobs would have gone ahead, Google needs to be gone, don't like it go long with Google or Amazon.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:41 PM Reply Like
  • Not in a holding pattern, just not as beautifully managed by an anal neurotic. Jobs's particularity is not readily reproducible and certainly the new lad is not anything close to Jobs. Perhaps better for his family...
    23 Sep 2012, 03:55 PM Reply Like
  • I certainly agree that it is better for his family....but, just because he's gone, let's avoid sanctifying his every decision and impulse...


    Just in case anyone accuses me if never pointing out problems with Apple: there were many things under SJ's watch that were far from perfect....Jobs didnt originally want third party apps, just Apple designed apps...was that brilliance? What else?....antennae gate, Safari would crash and still does, managing music playlists is cumbersome, video even worse, and who decided not to include the alarm app for the iPad? This map thing is minor in me, they just can't figure out a better thing to harp on, so that is the map "whipping boy" for it blow over as soon as a better story hits the presses....
    23 Sep 2012, 04:23 PM Reply Like
  • Who would rather have Meg Whitman? Who had a smartphone light go at HP this week.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:44 PM Reply Like
  • Oh...and iTunes was unattractive, buggy, slow, and unintuitive....I bet maps is way better than when iTunes first came out, so anyone saying that SJ only allowed perfection failed to pay attention...I see some SA authors again harping on this as "The Sign" that Apple is not Apple anymore....silly...


    .....the culture at Apple was good, but never was everything they did perfect under SJ....selective memory....feeds their thesis....
    23 Sep 2012, 05:44 PM Reply Like
  • I used SoundJam prior to the buyout by Apple and renaming to iTunes. A friend of mine who worked for introduced me to it. At the time it was not the best music player, and there were some music playing aspects of QuickTime that actually functioned better.


    Just like the iPhone 4 antenna issues, I don't think Apple Maps issues will push away potential purchasers. The style and design, and that Apple logo on the back, are the most important aspect for purchasers, especially early adopters. Of people I know with older iPhone models, some are choosing to stick with iOS 5, rather than be on the bleeding edge of releases.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:52 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah I agree, I don't think this will change buying habits much....and that is what matters to us investors....most of us won't be getting their iP5s soon anyway, the backlog is so big....for myself, I will probably be fine with maps, I'll give feedback when I get my phone, but I see lots of posts from real customers instead of reviewers saying that maps has been working fine for them, so maybe it depends where one lives...


    If I really want Google maps, I can delay my OS change on my iPad, or I can just put google maps on favorites in Safari....problem solved....Apple will be improving their map app as they go....Also, I use maps programs on the iPad, phone maps are too small for me when I'm driving....Google maps has been less than stellar for me when it comes to locating local businesses, so I actually think it won't matter to me....
    23 Sep 2012, 06:09 PM Reply Like
  • I just down loaded my entire itunes library to the Google play cloud.
    It said I could then upload to any Android device. However, after it was done 122 songs remained and 3 of them were the only songs I had purchased thru itunes. So much for the claim.
    Oh well, guess I don't how too much invested in any ecosystem to be concerned about no matter what platform I use.
    24 Sep 2012, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • lockman, that's not Google's or Android's fault.


    How to Remove DRM Protection from iTunes for Free:


    "iTunes is definately the undisputed champion of media downloading services.
    The annoying part is that iTunes purchased songs and videos will not run on any other media player except for Apple products due to digital rights managements (DRM) which limit usages of devices or files."


    You can find lot of sites about this. Just google for "itunes drm protection"


    I'm sure you can import all songs into Android, after removing these protections.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • Thanks for the link Mitrado!
    28 Sep 2012, 11:30 AM Reply Like
  • This whole thing sounds like a bunch of Google followers whining because they lost their YouTube app and Google maps.


    This is more a part of the tit for tat battle in tech right now more than a real problem. Google derived a lot of revenue from maps and searches from maps and now it is lost.
    23 Sep 2012, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • It's actual users. I saw examples of Apple Map failures on the New iPad, on which a friend of mine installed iOS 6. There are examples all over the internet about map failures. The screen shots are from actual devices, which means that they are from users of Apple products.


    Under Steve Jobs, this would've been handled quickly, and we would see something better. I would bet that Jobs would not have allowed this release until it was more polished. Eventually Apple Maps will be a good looking and working application, but at the moment it appears to be in beta.


    It amazes me the lengths people go to apologizing for Apple. Criticism, and the response the company provides, are ways to improve the user experience. Or don't you want Apple to improve?
    23 Sep 2012, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • Google gone, go long Google if don't like it but before you go look at this:

    23 Sep 2012, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Benchracing. Fun for geeks, but irrelevant for the average purchaser.



    The average iPhone purchaser is completely clueless about the specs. Obviously this video clip is just in fun, but it shows a reality of perception. When the iPhone 4 came out, I had at least half the people who owned one tell me that "4" meant it was 4G capable.


    People buy any new iPhone because of the look and feel. Of course they want it to work, but most users never get into the advanced functions. Few users push their devices to be so fast that they will notice the difference. Carrier through-put and connection signal strength will often impact performance. Early adopters get the latest iPhone for instant gratification, and kudos for Apple milking that with free news coverage of their store, even though historically barely 15% of iPhone purchases are done at an Apple Store.


    The iPhone 5 will sell because people think it is cool, and they want to impress someone, or they want what they perceive it to be. Those who want a bigger screen will shop somewhere else. Smartphones are quickly becoming commodity products.


    As to whether or not I personally like the iPhone, that should have no bearing on whether or not I buy or sell shares in Apple. It should also have no bearing on whether or not I buy shares in any other company. I don't need to buy barrels of oil from Total (TOT) in order to justify holding shares in their company.
    23 Sep 2012, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • Nobody is apologizing for Apple.


    It has grown tiring listening to the whining that accompanies every Apple release over the past year while Google fanboys tout Android.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • So we see the paradox of the internet. If you criticize any aspect of a company, then you are a hater or a "fanboy" for the competition.


    I don't own anything Google. In fact, I use Yahoo search on my MacBook Pro as the default search engine. I don't own shares in either company.


    What I do have is 18 years of owning and using Apple computers. I have also bought adn sold shares of AAPL numerous times over many years. I have never regretted taking profits in AAPL shares. Given a pullback in AAPL I may be tempted to buy shares again in the future.


    You must be very new to Apple to think they never make mistakes, because that is what you are implying. You appear to think that there is nothing wrong, and that Google "fanboys" are making up these issues. Maybe it surprises you that there are people who expect Apple to do better.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:28 PM Reply Like
  • Try the search test between search engines, not much to care about unless you like sponsored search.
    23 Sep 2012, 05:49 PM Reply Like
  • I've used many different search engines. What I like about Yahoo search over Google is that it appears to feed me less sponsored content. Bing looks clean and interesting, somewhat like Google, but I rarely use either.


    Back when OS 8.5 and 9 were the main Apple OS, I used a feature called Sherlock, which searched multiple search engines at the same time. Somewhere I may still have an Apple T-shirt from the Sherlock intro, which I got at one of their product release conferences.
    23 Sep 2012, 06:20 PM Reply Like
  • Also can use Same concept but not sure how great it is as of today.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:17 PM Reply Like
  • Almost forgot about that one. It was not long ago that there were many search choices. I use to like using Lycos too. The simplicity of Google is what attracted more users.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • If anyone want to try a new-ish search engine, is a nice tool. The best thing about it is something called bang tags, which let you search a specific site very easily.



    For example, often times I want to search for a book, so you can hit "!a valuation" and get an Amazon search for valuation. Or Google News "!n Egypt", or YouTube "!v regression analysis excel".


    As for the core search engine itself, it is not as good as Google, but it does often give you different and sometime better results. On the plus side, it does not use adaptive search, meaning it does not adapt the results to your search history.
    23 Sep 2012, 09:38 PM Reply Like
  • Or Apple needs to exit products before litigation. Apple is still building a monopoly that no matter how much smoke is blown maps is not the issue, controlling user resources and monetization is the goal. Nothing for free... Here..
    23 Sep 2012, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Monopoly!, Apple has no monopoly as the Android fanboys keep pointing out Apple's lack of market share, Apple has however across the line the best phone, tablet, computer, music player, OS desktop, OS mobile, App store,
    App ecosystem, mobile dev ecosystem and the best mobile processor's custom designed (A5, A6) in the world, but they do not have anything close to a monopoly unless you just talk about profit which Apple earned by merit in the open marketplace and not thru government granted monopolies (cable, and cell phone companies).
    23 Sep 2012, 08:51 PM Reply Like
  • Mapocalypse, no 4G support in most European countries... and now, this?


    "When the iPhone 4 first launched two years ago, quite a few users got devices that had odd yellow spots in some areas, for example.


    This time around, the issues are a bit more mysterious. Some iPhone 5s, for example, show an odd bubble effect when their users press the screen too hard. Others report that their screens are flickering and are blurry in some areas."


    It might still be the best-selling phone and AAPL should go up... but Apple is really losing their grip. What happened to "quality first"?
    23 Sep 2012, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • That's not really too surprising. Millions of handsets, and a few with problems. This is why they have a warranty. Hopefully Apple has updated their warranty replacement agreement and gives these people brand new (not refurbished) iPhones. I don't think it is really a problem to have these issues, unless Apple does not handle them quickly and without fuss.
    23 Sep 2012, 08:50 PM Reply Like
  • @ mitrado
    Apple is implementing a new display technology in the isn't the same, but is thinner, more vibrant, and uses less power.... even pressing the older LCD screens will produce an effect...but the other defects may have to be worked out....


    The other factor is that they are diversifying suppliers as well as moving away from Samsung components....despite their copycatting, they have excellent component quality control....better than what the current suppliers have....but, I have no doubt that Apple will replace faulty devices.... they will have to pressure their current suppliers on QC, as they have pressured Foxconn to change their worker conditions and compliance with Chinese law....
    23 Sep 2012, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • Can Apple maps render Jobs' virtual distortion field (fairly large and inflated)?
    23 Sep 2012, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • I had my first chance to see the iPhone 5 yesterday. The best superficial aspect is how light it is compared to the predecessor. The screen length is a nice improvement, but certainly still a bit cramped versus the Galaxy S3. I think they could have made it a touch wider as it is quite narrow. The owner of the phone was quite worried about scratching the aluminum -- I hope this does not turn out to be a problem for people. Overall it seems like a great device.


    I wrote a short product strategy analysis here:
    23 Sep 2012, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  • Does anyone think a longer phone is a problem. More prone to bending but more importantly does not fit into a pocket as nicely. Now it needs to be carried in the hand all the time.


    If you don't believe that then at what length is it too long?
    23 Sep 2012, 09:47 PM Reply Like
  • @Tomas,


    not sure what you mean, In terms of size,
    iPhone 5, 4-inch
    Lumia 920, 4.5 inches
    Galaxy S3, 4.8 inches
    One X, 4.7 inches.


    It is still more pocketable than the other flagships, eh?
    23 Sep 2012, 09:57 PM Reply Like


    Probably this version. LOL
    23 Sep 2012, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • Ha, right on!
    23 Sep 2012, 10:30 PM Reply Like
  • Don't know but supposedly Apple only releases great products so why add length if it was all figured out before? And if the other phones suck why copy them?
    24 Sep 2012, 12:54 AM Reply Like
  • The original iPhone was great, but that never did mean that it couldn't be made better....and in fact, it was, repeatedly....


    As far as I know Android phones are pretty good, but there are many who would rather switch to iOS, like my girlfriend did....perhaps they are not AS good?....don't know...


    What I do know is that, unlike a Trojan, phones and tablets are not "one size fits all", and customers do want some degree of choice...I want a bigger screen, but not bad enough to switch platform...the equation would turn out different for different far as iPads, we will soon have some choices: 10"....7"....and 3.5" (iPod touch), similarly, for Macs, there are several choices. For phones iOS has many choices as far as function (apps), but only one size....if that ever changes, it will be a good thing....


    Oh...and sometimes the competition does things better than Apple: Google search, Google's chrome browser (not mobile chrome), Facebook social network, and the OEMs size options, and even BBs physical keyboard as an option.... just because someone else did it better or did it first doesn't mean Apple shouldn't try to improve too....
    24 Sep 2012, 01:12 AM Reply Like
  • Seems to me that Apple is increasing the size to support advertising and/or they see appeal in Samsung's mobile device sizes. I just question it for the sake of understanding.


    By the way I have patented a 4" long screen so I will be logging on from my new private Caribbean island next week.
    24 Sep 2012, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • If Apple without Steve Jobs is, as author accuses, "too scared to take real chances," they would not have dropped Google in favor of developing their own replacement.


    Apple is bold, like Steve Jobs would have been. I'm totally sure Steve Jobs would have done the same thing.
    23 Sep 2012, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • What people failed to realize is that Apple had a contract with Google for some of their product, such as Youtube and Maps. I believe the contract was for 5 years. Now, I'm guessing that Apple probably asked for a renewal on annual basis and Google must have forced their hands by requesting another 5 years. Apple refused and decided to F**K It, the more people use it, the more data we will collect (Like Siri). So that within 3 years, we will have enough data for people to forget Google Maps on IOS ever existed.
    24 Sep 2012, 12:27 AM Reply Like
  • Personally I am not having any map issues with iOS6. However, being an Apple devotee, even I know that there is not much time or features left until cell/smart phones converge and it will be hard to differentiate. So, Apple needs to go in a different direction with other products - like entry into streaming audio, etc. - if they want to prove everyone wrong that they are not losing their mojo without Steve Jobs.
    24 Sep 2012, 12:33 AM Reply Like
  • Lucky you, I bet you are American. The rest of the world was heavily terraformed by Apple. It seems that most of Tokyo was wiped out... and let's face it, Tokyo is not exactly an unimportant city... is it?
    24 Sep 2012, 03:32 AM Reply Like
  • Sorry about that. Yep, heard issues with Europe and Asia. Hope it gets better for you quickly. :)
    24 Sep 2012, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • Don't understand the premise. Apple's demise based on a maps app that they provide for free in place of Google maps that customers can easily get back on their phone if they want. What am I missing here? Would they have been better off by not providing the free map app?
    24 Sep 2012, 01:05 AM Reply Like
  • It is just a discussion around Apple is perhaps cutting corners and shipping crap which was supposed to anathema to the company at least in a lot of peoples' eyes. Apple supposedly was better than everyone else and blah, blah, blah. Although anyone using AT&T service on an iPhone knew differently.


    Apple hates Google so that is what drove them into maps and they are control freaks.


    The most interesting part of it is that competition has forced their hand in a visible way. This will be a slug fest and both will get their lumps.
    24 Sep 2012, 01:14 AM Reply Like
  • "What am I missing here?" Turn-by-turn navigation. That's what you'll be missing since Google took that module out. You need Android to access the full functionality of Google Maps.


    Apple: - We'll spend up to 40 billion dollar to make sure Android dies.
    Google: - Oh yeah? And we'll make sure Google apps are crippled under iOS.
    24 Sep 2012, 03:39 AM Reply Like
  • We NEVER HAD TURN BY TURN. Google wouldn't give it to Apple.
    24 Sep 2012, 06:40 AM Reply Like
  • I still like my 4S, I'm not sure I need anymore than I already have. I'm old school. My primary use is Phone Calls and then Texting. I do not want my e-mails going to my phone. I have constant access to my Mac Book Pro and with all the graphics and attachments I get I strongly prefer a 17" screen over 3.5". I have over a hundred apps and only use 5-10 on a weekly basis. I am a Professional Photographer and need to be in personal touch with my clients. I have had every iPhone since it was introduced. Everyone I know was using a Blackberry. Not anymore. I do really like Google maps and have blocked upgrading to iOS 6 on both my phone and iPad. As far as losing Steve Jobs, he was a Computer Profit and it will be hard for anyone to live up to his insight in such a short time.
    24 Sep 2012, 01:06 AM Reply Like
  • They'll fix the bugs, update the software and all will be well and fine in no time. If you're still unhappy, buy a Garmin. (geesh.)
    24 Sep 2012, 01:18 AM Reply Like
  • Ok ... for the past week or so all I seem to be hearing from the non Apple side is that the iPhone5 lacks invention, innovation and adventure in design and application .... and yet these exact same people also complain strenuously about the logical move forward from a 10 year old technology and clearly improved small adaptor and the short term PR risky but long term very beneficial launch of beta Maps which will improve extremely quickly with user Cloud input. So which one is it guys, please do make your minds up.
    24 Sep 2012, 01:38 AM Reply Like
  • There is an easy solution that Jobs set up for you.
    Go to google map and add to the home key- click the icon to the left of the web address bar swipe to the second page. If you drag to the apple map a navigation folder automatically is generated. If you need walking or public transit info use google. The car navigation on Apple Maps is way better.
    24 Sep 2012, 01:42 AM Reply Like
  • " So which one is it guys, please do make your minds up"


    They will chose whatever way will facilitate their Apple bashing....inconsistent as the logic is...
    24 Sep 2012, 02:05 AM Reply Like
  • Call a spade a spade, when the fan boy (or investor) shine fades off, maybe there is a rainbow on the other side. I have had many problems with Apple products over the years. It seems to be getting worse. There are bashers out there and those that want people to keep their eyes open because, just as bad as bashing is the opinion that Apple can do no wrong or unabashed blindered fan boyism. Now as a stock holder I can see that we want to keep the good news up and the bad news down, but, morally, I would rather tell my experience as it is and be enthusiastic for any tech device's that make my day easier and have less frustrating daily problems.
    24 Sep 2012, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • " just as bad as bashing is the opinion that Apple can do no wrong or unabashed blindered fan boyish"


    Wow Lockman, you didn't read our comments right on this thread? I have always made it a point to keep my eyes open... however, the name calling, like "blind" and "fanboy" is inexcusable if you are trying to improve awareness and don't belong in any civil discussion...perhaps you have drifted from that intent a bit....maybe a little self-reflection is in order....


    Here's our earlier statements:



    I also said these things on this thread that are clearly not fanboy talk:


    "I get what you mean by perception about following the competition, but I would say that Apple needs to rise above that and do what is strategically cede the 7" market because of pride is just plain idiotic....if they do that, THAT is precisely the type of errors that will get me questioning Apple's competency....not NFC or maps, but major strategic errors is what I am watching for...."


    "I expect Apple to bite the bullet and cut into their Mac lines...disrupt themselves....they did it with the iPhone, canabalizing their iPods....I'd like them to do it again, this time with the iPad...."
    24 Sep 2012, 10:25 PM Reply Like
  • If you can't see the blind enthusiasm to which I see as fan boyism in comments than you got blinders on.
    I don't notice you criticizing anyone for android based negative comments only Apple, so, I don't see you as objective perspective.
    You can try to justify yourself but the fact that you have to respond to my reply is enough proof in my experience as to where you are coming from.
    Did you even notice that I did not mention you in the reply.
    Apple is not sacred and doesn't need your emotional support.
    And don't get your pantys in a wad over comments that don't have both barrels aimed at you.
    25 Sep 2012, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • Whoa Lockman,
    I shouldn't have replied, as it shows my guilt as a fanboy? You specifically posted your comment as a reply to of course, it seems directed at me....and, after all, I am an Apple investor and a Apple consumer....and an AAPL bull, but neither blind nor am I a lemming....


    I don't expect to be considered as completely objective, just open-minded....I have been a known investor in AAPL and someone who likes the prospects of the company and stock....


    Lockman, this is an AAPL thread, I'm not on some hopeless crusade to turn every poster on an AAPL thread to be objective about MS or AAPL....I find it unnecessary to prove my objectivity by picking fights with the bulls on this thread....


    I agree that apple is neither sacred, nor does it need my support...I have said similar words myself....


    Watch it with the panties comment....I try to be reasonable, but I'm known to be pretty aggressive when pissed off....dont start a war unless you WANT to be in the middle of one....


    You have no comment about your own behavior or your language? ...I guess you didn't self-reflect at all then....unfortunate
    25 Sep 2012, 12:22 PM Reply Like
  • Remind me again what other companies are doing that is so innovative. Seriously.
    24 Sep 2012, 06:41 AM Reply Like
  • Wireless charging, optical image stabilization built into the camera on the smartphone, and NFC all look like nice items to include in a smartphone. Unrestricted true multitasking would be cool, except I think it would confuse most users. At the moment NFC is still new, though Visa and MasterCard are supporting the technology. Just as Apple was safe being a year late with 4G LTE, they can be a year late adding NFC. So when the iPhone 5S comes out, probably with improved battery performance, we might reasonably expect NFC.
    24 Sep 2012, 06:50 PM Reply Like
  • Why do so many people want turn-by-turn navigation on an iPhone? Don't most new cars have GPS built in, and add-ons like TomTom and Garmin are mostly in-hand by anyone who wants one? I would never let my phone be running Maps on 3G, sucking data like crazy, in a car on some stand on the dashboard. I also don't like the new Maps (the look and feel is too cheap, not nice and detailed street-wise like Google's, and Street View is useful before going somewhere to get an idea of what building, shop, etc. I want) but Maps won't be the decider for most, I would bet.


    Apple apps have some negative history - the recent Podcasts app is an awful app that had huge negative reviews (check the app store) and was clearly a work-in-progress, for one of the ecosystem's biggest draws - podcasts via iTunes.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:02 AM Reply Like
  • Well, Internal Source, with Nokia you can have a full feature GPS, not simply a mapping application.


    Check out how the verious mobile mapping solutions compare to each other:


    A GPS in a smartphone is a good feature for me, as it can replace my current Garmin, but if people don't use GPS at all, it doesn't matter which mapping solution they end up with.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:24 AM Reply Like
  • That wasn't an answer to my question, just yet another Nokia troll diatribe.
    25 Sep 2012, 01:44 AM Reply Like


    Three years worth of data suggest 17.8% of users are using Maps. So it is not a huge user base, but if this is something important to an end user, it might be a deal breaker. Currently around 152k apps are available on multiple platforms.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:13 AM Reply Like
  • Being a deal breaker would mean that customers find the maps unusable for their purposes, are not okay with employing simple workarounds, and that one function overrides all the other reasons they prefer iOS....including just personal preference or familiarity....


    Honestly, I just don't think that is the case for any except for a very small minority....within the US, the map data seems to be much better than outside of the US....even with the posted pics of the problems, they appeared to be amusing to them rather than frustrating....


    .....and just anecdotally, I haven't heard much about this from real users, nor have I run into comments on SA stating that they were buying a iP5 but the maps thing was too much and they cancelled their order.....have you seen this, maybe one, maybe none? Seems like FUD to me.....
    25 Sep 2012, 02:57 AM Reply Like
  • Sorry, Internal Source, if my answer didn't satisfy you.
    I'm sorry if I can't give you the motives of the rest of the people who want a GPS feature included in their phones but I can only answer for my self when I say: "it can replace my current Garmin"


    Wasn't this exactly what you asked?


    Then, why the need to call me a troll? Just because you prefer other brand yourself?


    While we're here, I'll take the chance to answer your second question:


    "Don't most new cars have GPS built in, and add-ons like TomTom and Garmin are mostly in-hand by anyone who wants one?"


    Yes, but an integrated GPS solution for my car is around 2500€.
    Way too much money... and why would anyone prefer going on holiday with a phone + a GPS device instead of a single device combining the 2 features?
    25 Sep 2012, 03:14 AM Reply Like
  • "Seems like FUD to me"


    The best way to confirm that is not in the Seeking Alpha forums but in Apple oriented forums, such as Mac Rumours or The Cult of Mac.


    In Seeking Alpha, you'll mostly find noise.
    25 Sep 2012, 03:19 AM Reply Like
  • Mitrado, don't you think this is getting blown out of proportion? I have an iP5 on order....if I hate maps, I will just access Google maps through my browser, well actually with my iPads, phone maps are too small for me.... I can't see it even remotely discouraging most it just me?


    btw, I notice the change in your tone...and appreciate the effort....
    25 Sep 2012, 03:24 AM Reply Like
  • I don't know what most buyers want but I was never interested in a smartphone until now. (Like I say, if I can ditch my Garmin GPS in my next holiday through Europe, that will be perfect.)


    Is the reaction out of proportion? Maybe yes, maybe not. I've read somewhere that maps was among the top 5 apps being used in smartphones. If that's true, maybe users are more interested in driving directions than most smartphone brands think.


    Of course some folks are just joking and having some fun but I expect them to be Apple fans. (Very few lunatics would buy an expensive product just to joke about it.)
    25 Sep 2012, 03:52 AM Reply Like
  • HH


    Refining the date further I would add the following.


    1. The data included kids from 13 and over which don't need the maps until they are likely around 18 and leaving home. This then reduces the denominator so the % jumps.
    2. If you need maps and feel you have to get a GPS this is additional expense.
    3. I only use maps a few times per year but I want it to work when I do. Not sure how this comes out in the data.
    4. Feedback on maps will come over time as people move to use it. For most people it is not a daily application but Apple will take a hit to their brand for this half baked application which will only worsen if they don't fix it. Not sure they can fix it that quickly though.
    25 Sep 2012, 10:46 AM Reply Like
  • Exactly. Glad you picked up on my point.


    This is also true of many other apps, and somewhat true of music libraries. Major apps are available across devices. Music, unless it is locked down as rights protected content, can be ported or synced quite easily. People who sometimes speak about the "ecosystem" ignore that few people are locked into an operating system. This is not much different than the desktop. On a smaller scale, look at all the Palm apps developed years ago, yet few people had trouble leaving that platform as it moved towards phones.


    While there are some people who will not give up specific, or exclusive apps, these people are a subset of overall end users on any platform. There are some people who have bought many apps, though this is another niche, and research indicates most people purchase very few apps.


    That leaves the biggest tie-in, which is actually the carrier. We saw that in testimony at the Samsung vs. Apple trial. Information presented there indicated that many Verizon customers were unwilling to switch to AT&T just to get an iPhone, so they bought an Android phone instead.


    So far I know some iPhone 4S users who will not be getting an iPhone 5, and will not be updating to iOS 6. Some others are not too concerned about the Maps, and are more interested in the panorama photo feature.


    The biggest issue at the moment is the riot at Foxconn involving over 2000 workers. Civil unrest in China is disrupting the Apple supply chain. I think this is why shares have dipped, though there has been quite a run-up without any release of financial information.
    25 Sep 2012, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • If it is truly crowd sourced content from many places, it would seem a bit tougher to fix quickly. Interesting that Apple has been hiring ex Google Maps veterans to work on this. Eventually they will get it right, and improve it. Approving a Google Maps app would alleviate some criticism. I doubt many people are returning their iPhones. Early adopters usually are more receptive to living through problems.


    Some of the researchers may look a bit more into map usage, but it will take months for new data to really show more detail. There are other reports that somewhat match the usage data in that link, but rather than write an article in a comment, I will leave it up to others to find more research. Obviously, never just use one source of data to make investment decisions.
    25 Sep 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • Unfortunately, I think, as usual, Apple is the usual whipping boy, some are outright blaming Apple's launch:


    ....yet most reports center around alleged ongoing disrespect as well as verbal and physical abuse by guards at the dormitories and managers, another issue that Foxconn needs to address, rather than a problem because of iP5 doesn't seem necessarily related to Apple, but may be internal problems in Foxconn's management style, and with dorm security behaving like bullies....


    "News reports and witnesses said the violence Sunday night in Taiyuan in northern China stemmed from a confrontation between a factory worker and a guard that escalated. One employee reached by telephone said the violence was fueled by workers' anger about mistreatment by Foxconn security guards and managers."


    "Foxconn, some supervisors, and security guards never respect us," said the employee, who asked not to be identified by name. "We all have this anger toward them and they (the workers) wanted to destroy things to release this anger."


    As far as supply issues, I wonder if the bottleneck might have to do with the screen quality problems that were raised prior to launch, problems with supplier Sharp, rather than Foxconn?
    25 Sep 2012, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • The bigger problem with Chinese workers rioting is not the supply chain but that it hits Apple's brand as a company that acts granola crunchy and CA cool but is screwing workers in China.


    So much for being cool and they sell a lot on the cool factor.
    25 Sep 2012, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • HH


    "Interesting that Apple has been hiring ex Google Maps veterans to work on this"


    Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen for hiring people who have inside knowledge or IP on Google Maps.
    25 Sep 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • All these issues really are about the impact to Apple's brand. If they ever lose the coolness factor it is big trouble because they are making a lot of sales on trust and being cool. Lord help them if they lose it.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • Perhaps on the screen issue. It's not completely new technology, though the usage has been limited until iPhone 5. My take it the screen issue is overblown, but of course in the age of the internet mole hills become sink holes. A high return rate would hurt follow on quarters more than the next quarter, because early adopters probably are unconcerned. Heat issues and returns on the New iPad do not appear to have made too much of an adverse impact on sales volumes.


    Apple users appear to be more willing to put up with any issues, in comparison to other brands. They happily waited for 4G LTE and very likely they are fine waiting for NFC at some point in the future. Quite likely many will happily wait for better maps, or download another map app.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:03 PM Reply Like
  • Exactly, Apple users pay more for less... and are perfectly happy with that as long as their gadgets have a fruity logo.
    Apple culture is no longer about buying the best, it's about buying the coolest gadgets, no matter their quality.


    Hell, some people don't even know why they want Apple...


    Waiting for an iPhone 5...for no reason:


    Owning Apple is now a trend, as the Levis jeans once were, but nothing more than a trend. It will go the way every other trend goes: which is to slowly fade away. (I just don't know when... and not willing to gamble on it.)
    25 Sep 2012, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • Foxconn is a Taiwanese company that owns and operates factories in China. They are the world's largest CEM or Contract Electronics Manufacturer. Most consumer electronics vendors including Nokia, Samsung, HTC, etc. have factories in China. Instead of having its own factories in China, Apple outsources the assembly of its products to companies like Foxconn using components manufactured by other companies.


    Should Apple be held legally liable for Foxconn's management practices?


    I don't think so.


    The media keeps harping on Apple's culpability on this issue but in reality, Apple has very little control over the management practices of its third-party suppliers. After all, Apple is not in the business of enforcing labor laws. That's the job of the Chinese gov't. Period.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • Apple will be held responsible for supplier actions whether they like it or not. They hold the position of leverage and by doing nothing are condoning it.


    Nike had the same issues .


    If Apple does not get their crap together on these issues they are going to get beat severely. Denial and avoidance is not a strategy.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • "If Apple does not get their crap together on these issues they are going to get beat severely. Denial and avoidance is not a strategy."


    I suspect Apple's investors couldn't care less about how many people are exploited as long as Apple keep its profits... but with their kind of profit margins, they have nothing to worry about.


    At this pace, the next iPhone will cost less than $150 to manufacture... and in 2010 Apple will be making $30 phones and selling them by $700.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • With China's labor problems, I think that it is helpful to identify those responsible.....


    First, Hon Hai and Foxconn and their employees and management are number one in responsibility for the problems, as they are the ones directly participating in bad behavior...I don't like it when the responsibility is deflected away from the front line where the problems are occurring....


    Next, the Chinese government is responsible for enforcing their own the Chinese government, more than most governments, given the nature of their system, could have this monitored and corrected relatively quickly....


    Third, and this is where I Agree with Tomas, is that
    "Apple ....hold(s) the position of leverage and by doing nothing are condoning it." also, I am not sure why only Apple is held to far as I've heard, Foxconn makes products for dozens of large seems only fair to expect them to take action as well....


    I think that responsibility lies with these parties, and in that order....
    25 Sep 2012, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • @TomasViewPoint


    Really? So how come the Chinese media does NOT blame Apple for Foxconn's management practices but only the U.S. media which does this after every Apple product launch?




    "At this pace, the next iPhone will cost less than $150 to manufacture... and in 2010 Apple will be making $30 phones and selling them by $700"


    The labor cost in assembling the iPhone is quite low with the majority being the BOM, i.e., screen, battery, processor, baseband chipsets, flash memory. Over time, the costs of the components will go down but labor costs will remain the same. However, the labor costs in China is growing rapidly and I wouldn't be surprised if Foxconn moves its factories outside of China in a few more years. This is already happening in the apparel and leather goods industries. Nike, for example, is closing most of its factories in China and moving them to countries like Vietnam.


    Smartphone ASPs will decline over time especially when the smartphone market reaches the early majority phase which will take a few more years. In China, sub-$100 smartphones targeting the low-end are already out in the market. Apple's brand, channels, platform (iOS), ecosystem (iTunes/AppStore), services (iCloud, Maps, Siri), design, technology (A6 CPU designed in-house) will allow Apple to price its products at a premium for years and years to come.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:56 PM Reply Like


    Internal component costs are already in the $105.00 to $150.00 range. That would leave the case, packaging, software development and advertising expenses. An older iPhone sold at $299 off contract would still be profitable.


    Smartphones are quickly becoming commodities, just like dumb phones were in the past. Apple has iTunes music and apps for recurring revenue. At some point the user base will be more important than new device sales. Then Apple iAD will become an important source of revenue. This will take a few more years.
    25 Sep 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Mitrado: "I suspect Apple's investors couldn't care less about how many people are exploited as long as Apple keep its profits"


    I think that this is simultaneously untrue and unfair....


    Apple investors don't differ morally from other investors. Where is any evidence for the accusation? I have spoken out in the past as this is an older issue....personally, my original occupation is centered around helping others, and I hold a special interest in the welfare of other people....even if they are on the other side of the globe....


    and, I have buds on SA who are very, very, long AAPL, and I will attest to their character....they are good guys who care about people....


    Yet, as I stated above, as investors, I don't feel that we are the primary mechanism for change to be enacted, nor do we hold responsibility for Foxconn abuse....I think that Cook seems to be more empathetic than SJ....and has tried to enact change...change which is in process over time according to Foxconn....
    25 Sep 2012, 03:08 PM Reply Like
  • Ronin, "I suspect" means it's a suspicion, not an accusation.
    25 Sep 2012, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • And the basis for your suspicion?


    If I say, "I suspect" that you are stealing from me.....should I interpret that as a simple innocuous passing comment or an accusation?


    It is questioning the character of a whole lot of people, no?
    25 Sep 2012, 03:23 PM Reply Like
  • "It is questioning the character of a whole lot of people, no?"


    Of course. Can't I?


    Wall Street and Moral Values don't seem to go well with each other.
    If Wall Street was a place only for investors with character, there would be no short selling 'cause that means betting on the failure of a company. Not exactly a very moral thing to do, is it?
    25 Sep 2012, 03:37 PM Reply Like
  • @Herr Hansa: "Smartphones are quickly becoming commodities, just like dumb phones were in the past."


    True and false. True for Android smartphones. False for the iPhone. Just think about this: the resale value of used iPhones is HIGHER than the list price of new but low-cost Android smartphones.
    25 Sep 2012, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • Read my full statement. "This will take a few years." You can tell me I am wrong in three years. ;)
    25 Sep 2012, 03:48 PM Reply Like
  • Mitrado,
    "It is questioning the character of a whole lot of people, no?"
    Of course. Can't I?


    Sure you can, but it is unfair, and could be considered a personal attack....I don't like it and I think that others here won't either...


    You know nothing about me and the others you are disrespecting with such comments....
    25 Sep 2012, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • You're taking my comment too personal, Ronin.


    The same I said for Apple is valid for every other company, including the ones I invest into. My feeling is that most investors care only about profits and nothing else really matters.


    And by this I refer mainly to the big sharks who can move markets, not to every individual investor. Most of the times I say "investors" I really mean "Wall Street."
    Sorry, I should have been more clear about this.
    25 Sep 2012, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • Ronin


    I will answer all the comments in one thread.


    It is really critical for Apple to protect its brand. That is what allows a company to charge a premium for their products. That alone should spur them to get on top of any labor issues. They need to have codes of conduct for their suppliers and hold them to it with penalties. Most large companies have these in place.


    Secondly the Chinese government doesn't give a shit about their people so don't take any tips from them.


    Third look at Nike's experience and understand what they eventually had to do which was not that hard really but you have to care and you have to believe you are a responsible stakeholder in the value chain. It is very unseemly to charge $100 for a pair of tennis shoes and pay people a pittance each day. Apple's problem is 700% worse than Nike and they have tens of billions in the bank. They are painting a huge target on their face and asking for it.


    If Apple does not take care of this issue which is really not that difficult they will pay the consequences. There is no upside to ignoring it and being arrogant.
    25 Sep 2012, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • Tomas,
    I applaud you advocating for human rights and better working conditions....I think that we agree more than disagree on this topic...I think that it is a good thing for Apple to try to positively influence the situation....


    Where we part ways is that I think that there is a definate hierarchy of responsibility, as I have already discussed. Also, I separate out actions and responsibility more than it seems that you do... I think that there is a definite difference between doing good and the responsibility to do that good.... for example, if I see a motorist stranded with a flat tire, and I stop to help them change the tire....that is doing good. Do I feel that it is necessarily my responsibility to do this? think that Apples responsibility is a little more than this, but it is a grey rather than a black and white matter....


    From Hon Hai's perspective, and from Chinese government's perspective, they may feel that this is none of Apple's business to be dictating to them the management style of a Chinese company....don't forget, Apple does not own this business, but is merely a business partner....


    I find it a bit inconsistent that you seem to consider Apple a bully and one to go overboard in asserting control outside its own business, and even within its business (which seems well within their rights)....yet, you seem to think that it is a moral imperative for them not only to be assertive, but to dictate to Foxconn on a number of their business practices....For me, I think that they have much more right to advocate for their own IP, then it is their right to dictate terms to Foxconn....yet because of the importance of reasonable working conditions, I understand Apple making efforts in this direction....


    As you mentioned, from Apple's perspective, Hon Hai's practices has an effect on Apple's brand....the degree to which this is true, IMO, is less than you are presenting, because not everyone feels nearly as strongly as you do about this.....yet, it is a worthy cause, nevertheless....


    Since Cook has gone as far as to go to China and discuss this with Foxconn and gain some agreements for change from them, I would say that Apple has done far more than I have seen a company do in this particular worker issue at Foxconn....I have heard nothing about any of the other corporations doing so....I think that it is a good idea, for the other corporations to join forces with Apple in pressuring Foxconn...this all may be a sticky issue though, because as I mentioned, this can be construed as undue manipulation on their part, and create some political tension between governments....


    You are suggesting that they are arrogant, but I get a very opposite impression based on their actions.....I believe that Cook has done far more than SJ or any other CEO has done for this situation.


    I can only conclude that such an undeserved response stems from some resentment that people harbor for Apple.....I don't see any arguments that anyone else has any responsibility in this matter....just Apple I laid out, I think the primary and secondary responsibilities lie with Foxconn and with the Chinese government.....Apple's responsibility is tangential....yet they have made efforts where no one else seems to be making....
    25 Sep 2012, 08:42 PM Reply Like
  • I am only responding to the comments that think Apple has no play in the problem. It is their brand. They can hide behind legal niceties but brand image has nothing to do with legal terms. It is the image of being a good corporate citizen. When the ball starts rolling in the wrong direction it is a beast to turn it around and then everything sticks to you whether it is true or not. Look at GS.


    Nike is a good case study. Denial was followed by a recognition that they were not going to be able to hide and then they got involved. Apple is the big guy making a massive amount of money so they will have to play.


    It is not inconsistent to look at their IP activities and their brand activities. Both fall under pushing the envelope for their own benefit without regards to being a good corporate citizen. Oracle can do this easier since they sell B to B but Apple is a consumer brand that depends on hype and buzz. That hype and buzz can turn on you too if you don't do the right things. And sometimes it is just the effort that counts.
    26 Sep 2012, 12:51 AM Reply Like
  • I am with you in wanting Apple to do what they can about the far as I know, they have done so, and it is up to Foxconn and Hon Hai to carry out their plans for improvement....because of the importance to their business I believe they will, but they are doing so over a year and a half plan....probably not quick enough for many....I think that dealing with a workforce as large as theirs will take time, as well as changing the corporate culture....however, I think that some more focused efforts in specific target areas would result in quicker results....


    It is possible that additional pressure from Cook might prove counterproductive, rather than helpful....I know that when pushed instead of asked, I tend to push back......I wouldn't expect different from the Chinese.....and Cook has already pushed, and should he start shoving, it might lead to trouble.......


    Tomas, I think that it is being grossly unfair to view this as a matter of Apple merely looking after their own best interests....I actually believe that if they chose to have never done anything at all, they would have gotten away with it and demand would remain very high for their products....


    However, there comes a point where doing the right thing is worth some substantial extra effort....I believe that it is simply ignoring the facts to claim that Cook has not made much efforts in this area....neither you or I have bought tickets, jumped on a plane to China, and seen what we might do to is just's where the rubber hits the road that counts....I know, because of my occupation....there are many good "talkers"....I respect the "doers"....Cook has been a doer...and to say otherwise is unfair in my opinion....
    26 Sep 2012, 01:14 AM Reply Like
  • Apple put sourcing in China as that was in their best interests for profit. Everything they do is in their best interests let's not be naive. If Apple reflects Job's values then they will be just as selfish as he was. He was nobody to emulate in a number of ways. Technology companies in general are not known to be great leaders in empathy for anyone else as they believe their brilliance is enough. And I work in technology so I live it.


    Cook needs to be on the supply chain simply to make sure it can produce enough units at the quality level they need to run their business.
    26 Sep 2012, 02:27 AM Reply Like
  • I have direct experience with the QC at Apple in the recent past. I am not impressed and feel deceived. I received my defective Macbook Pro with the SSD in 2 days from Shanghai. All that was needed was to turn it on in a darkened room to see that all the backlight was all in one small area of the keyboard. After getting a DOA from them, it took 2 weeks to get my replacement (why?). That was after having to go to the store to have them tell me they could not fix it.
    Then no one was able (even in the highest service tiers) how to do a secure erase before sending my transmigrated data even with second party software.
    I spent hours on this since I have data I do not want reconstructed by some nerd in Shanghai. I finally had to pull the drive and did a 15 pass zeroing that twice the requirement for government documents, but, I was told not to do this by Apple's minions and they would not do it even if I brought into the "geniuses".


    Did you read about my Mac G5 having its hard drive erased and all the was left was the hackers calling card? That was a fun tower. It sounded like a 747 taking off when you turned in on.
    Or the last Mac Pro that had gremlins causing the updates to retrograde? Or my laptop that was recalled before it burst into flames. In these past incidents, I had much greater respect for Apples service. Generally, their QC was above average. When I had a problem, it got fixed without a lot of hassles. I received a better laptop (Pismo) for the potential flamer and so on. However, from the latest Mac Pro on (been using Apple products since the Apple II), the service has been dismal and I am required to prove my problems in black and white to guys who can't even tell me how do a secure erase on my hard drive before sending back to China. That is when my loyalty to Apple waned. The iphone was the stake in my heart that ended any attachment to any product they produce. See I used to look at everything they put out and try to figure a way I could incorporate it into my life.
    After getting burned, I do the opposite. See if I can do without it.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • Lockman


    Do you think your experience is just a lemon experience which is bad luck? Or something else?
    27 Sep 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • Well Lockman,
    sorry to hear about the problems....I did not have such a negative experience....but like you I have used various products all the way back to Mac II (well, not quite as long as you, but close enough)....For the most part, there were not very many failures that happened prior to them running a reasonable lifespan....most ran so long that I was still keeping Mac pluses around when they looked like they belonged in museums...My family's G5 eventually failed, but not less than a decade in....


    With the Apple stores, the attention that they pay to problems is far beyond what most people expect....but perhaps they lack the technical expertise level you required....I think that it would be a good idea to fix that.....for instance, in my local area we have 3 Apple stores....the stores should have at least one highly technical geek who is paid very well to service situations beyond what most of the "geniuses" are capable of handling....


    Perhaps there are suggestions you can make to Apple that will help....
    27 Sep 2012, 12:57 PM Reply Like
  • Great idea. I actually have along the way. I would much rather see Apple go the route of responsibility instead of the o'mighty dollar.


    I didn't realize you went back as far as you have. Good to know.
    I still have a quadra 700 down in my basement for some ungodly reason.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:26 PM Reply Like
  • You know, I kinda glossed it all over when I was a fan. Then the last bout with 4 products in a row (well almost) took the shine off.
    I am really more of a phone user than most. I run my entire locksmithing business with it, so, I probably am not the average phone user by a long shot.
    I have had my share of Window based problems as well. Enough to keep my MacPro as my preferred method of addressing the web on almost all fronts.


    Thanks for asking.
    27 Sep 2012, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • Once my couple of pluses got old and I upgraded, I took an old plus and attached it to a portrait display to write and do word the time, most people were using these tiny little screens (no giant iMac screens), so this felt like freedom, to view an entire page with no scrolling was good for a long time like that...loved it....that was when the Quatras were good machines (wow...30mHz..lo it sounds funny now, but they were big time powerful at the time) and eventually the power PCs began entering the picture....


    ...perhaps they should have never gone the Motorola route in the first place....
    27 Sep 2012, 01:40 PM Reply Like
  • I've been through three Apple recalls and two class action lawsuit settlements, in my history of owning Apple laptops. My first was the PowerBook 5300. I've used Apple Service twice on my WallStreet PowerBook, and the experience sucked and was slow. The battery in my current MacBook Pro swelled enough to leverage the case open, but luckily I was able to replace the battery. On the newest MacBooks with soldered on RAM and soldered on batteries, we would be completely tied to Apple Service. At the moment I am looking more at upgrades than buying a new MacBook Pro. Affordability is not the issue, but I have a problem with disposable electronics that cost thousands and are difficult to repair. The software I run costs far more than the computer, just for reference. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience.
    27 Sep 2012, 02:55 PM Reply Like
  • Despite problems I continued to buy Apple laptops. Compared to other companies, I did not think Apple was really worse than other companies. It was also a way to avoid Windows, which I have never liked much.


    Geniuses are not what they are made out to be, but then again it is not like they are paying these people in the stores that much. They are barely better than when we use to call in to Apple Support, and some "expert" would invariably tell you to reformat the drive and re-install everything. On the older laptops a re-install of necessary third party software meant at least 10 hours to get everything back to the way it was. Now on the newer machines it means about 4 hours. I suppose that is progress of a sort. Time Machine helps a bit.


    I dread the idea of needing to send my MacBook Pro in for service. I keep a slightly older one as a back-up machine, just in case. If you need a laptop for work, and not just for entertainment, then you always have a back-up. They do have a long lifespan, though I'm not so sure on the latest with many solder connections and even thinner cases to load up on dust and heat.
    27 Sep 2012, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • So my experience has been a lot of Windows based laptops and desktops. I put all my data on an external hard drive so I can quickly move to a new machine if necessary. I don't trust any manufacturer or software company to give me a fault proof machine.


    I did buy my wife an Apple machine and I ended up taking it back. The biggest problem was that all the 3rd party software she was used to using was not supported by Apple.
    27 Sep 2012, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, I really like the concept of time machine but when I used it, it didn't get everything over, so, I lost some data. I also try to manually back up now.


    Does anyone have experience with a great piece of back up software for both Mac and another for PC? I used to use carbon copy but I haven't used any third party automatic programs, only the default ones.
    27 Sep 2012, 08:28 PM Reply Like
  • Probably not. I remember when the first rotating portrait display came out, it was a really big deal!
    I remember when the first Mac hard drive came out. It was like 10 megs and cost what, something over $1000?
    27 Sep 2012, 08:33 PM Reply Like
  • lockman


    So if you are only going to backup your files I just make sure they are all in a directory on the hard drive under documents or something like that and then just copy that over to an external hard drive daily or weekly. If you do it this way you can use the files immediately on another machine.


    My experience with back up software is that it often backs up a lot of stuff I don't care about which takes forever and it may compress it so you cannot use it immediately elsewhere.
    27 Sep 2012, 08:35 PM Reply Like
  • That was it, the 5300. That was my first laptop as well (fortunately, transformed into a fully loaded Pismo, kudos to Apple).
    I am with you on the soldered ram and for me, non removable batteries (although I cracked open my iphone 4 and replaced it.).
    MacBooks are by far the nicest laptops I have owned and the most expensive. Mine was over $3500 with the SSD in it. I just haven't really enjoyed lion as much as snow leopard.
    What software do you run, Hansa?
    27 Sep 2012, 08:40 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, I have had to archive and install many times over the years thanks to my inability to figure out a way around it. Very frustrating, especially when you find out the problem is still there or there was another answer.
    I was very impressed in the Dell laptops some years ago. They seem to be built to drive nails on the business side. I fixed all sorts of things myself with the help of Ebay for parts for upgrades and repairs. Haven't rummaged around much in the MacPro other than to change ram and hard drives though.
    27 Sep 2012, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • I have some proprietary ship tracking software, and other tools that I need for my work. Luckily these things are available for Mac OS X.


    I tend to stay just slightly behind the bleeding edge of technology changes. Being an early adopter can cause problems with third party software. Also, new prices always decline a bit months after launch.


    The 5300 was interesting, though the Wallstreet was the first really powerful laptop I owned. The keyboard on the Wallstreet was the best I have ever used on a laptop, though it was way too bulky to be continued on later versions. So now we are stuck with Chicklets.
    27 Sep 2012, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • Easy to clean anyway...
    27 Sep 2012, 09:25 PM Reply Like
  • @ Lockman


    "I remember when the first rotating portrait display came out, it was a really big deal! I remember when the first Mac hard drive came out"


    Yeah, that rotating display is the one that I'm talking could use it in landscape too....


    I don't recall what was the first hard drive, was that the first Mac?


    The MacII at work used to have hard drives, and later, the Mac SE had hard drives....I never worked on the original Mac....


    I know that my Pluses didn't have hard drives....I would get them upgraded with all the RAM that could be shoved in there, and they would work pretty well....the Mac software was so efficient back then, they could run on these machines with so little power...stuff like MacWrite.....I used to consider non-Mac stuff bloatware, but now everything seems bloated and needs powerful processors....
    28 Sep 2012, 05:24 AM Reply Like
  • @Internal Source,


    "Why do so many people want turn-by-turn navigation on an iPhone?"


    I myself like it when I'm walking somewhere. Recently I was walking to a farmers market but I wasn't exactly sure which street to take. My map app conveniently has walking directions, so it saved me from making a wrong turn and getting lost.
    28 Sep 2012, 11:24 AM Reply Like
  • try this Luke mught help you find some tomatoes
    28 Sep 2012, 11:30 AM Reply Like
  • . apple customers don 't need google maps to find the stores..22 more countries today with long lines......
    28 Sep 2012, 12:32 PM Reply Like
  • Scott, ;-)


    Um, so I went to Google maps to see if this store was as desolate as it appeared in the video..


    Scott, there is nothing out there!
    He start out on McKees Rocks Road, and the store is on McKees Rocks Road! there's pretty much no way to get lost.


    Anyway, I'm sure Apple's maps can find most locations.. heck I've had voice assisted turn-by-turn navigation on my 2 year old Droid all along.
    28 Sep 2012, 01:59 PM Reply Like
  • Seems to me like most of the complaints are coming from anti-Apple guys trying to stir things up as much as possible....constant griping as if you have been personally traumatized by a missing dot or a distorted bridge.


    I'd bet that most of you guys don't buy Apple products judging on how you all like it dis them. Those of you that have iOS6, have you all gotten lost and felt helpless, so you are venting? Can't find your way? Can you find Safari, google search Google maps? If you're still lost, then come back and ask us questions.
    28 Sep 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • So why did Tim Cook apologize, and suggest third party solutions?
    28 Sep 2012, 06:44 PM Reply Like
  • Odin, I own an iPhone and iPod Touch, I've also bought like 4-5 other iPhone and Touches for my family and I subscribe to iTunes Match at $25 per year. (My primary phone is a Droid.)


    This is an investment forum and we are discussing if Apple is 1) having trouble innovating, and 2) producing quality product.


    Many like me are concerned with buying Apple at or near $700 because we worry if Apple has peaked. If we see more slipups we may turn to shorting the stock.


    This is why the discussion. It's not hating Apple, it's wondering if it's a good buy at these prices.


    Disclaimer: I'm also a Nokia long and I view the Nokia 920 as a better phone for the money, and mapping is one of Nokia's strong points. This is all very relevant to the discussion.
    28 Sep 2012, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • all fodder for complainers and apple disaster, just same old stuff. Given any excuse to make the issue bigger, they will...all sitting here (with glee, I might add) trying to pour lighter fluid on the guys have every right to do so, but it is irritating as hell....but you already know that, and it doesn't matter, right? When is enough, enough?
    28 Sep 2012, 07:41 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, I bet. LT got lost using iOS6 maps and almost died in the desert. FUD!
    28 Sep 2012, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah Ronin,


    it was. The SE (SE30?) was the one of the first one's out with a built in hard drive so you didn't have to do the floppy shuffle. What a pain that was...


    More powerful processors so we can see more ads! Soon in 4D and Dolby 12.2. ;)
    29 Sep 2012, 12:52 AM Reply Like
  • Hahaha...the floppy shuffle....can I still do that step? Come to think of it, it may have been the floppy shuffle that motivated me to stock up on RAM...I think that it helped not have to do that much...


    ... I think the IIs also had optional internal drives, cause at work I never did the shuffle....


    Ads are getting really intrusive...greying out the whole screen....following as you scroll (stalking), sending you to their page when you click "x" to shut them off.....don't they realize that I will never buy crap that is shoved down my throat? Maybe someday I'll click "x" and the product will fall out onto my lap with my account already charged....
    29 Sep 2012, 01:04 AM Reply Like
  • Yes, you're right... most complains are coming from anti-Apple guys who bought an IPhone 5 and have been using forums like Mac Rumours for quite some years now.


    It's a conspiracy!!! The aliens are coming!!! Run for your lives!
    29 Sep 2012, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • If only people used Nokia.......
    24 Sep 2012, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • You mean if only Apple had used nokia? ;-)
    24 Sep 2012, 06:44 PM Reply Like
  • nokia got used by aapl....thatswhy they layed off 10,000
    28 Sep 2012, 12:15 AM Reply Like
  • Nah, other way around. Nokia lost its way.
    24 Sep 2012, 07:58 PM Reply Like
  • David Urban, yes, it's true that Nokia lost its way more or less a decade ago... but they seem to be getting back on track.


    Now I'm starting to think Apple is losing its way.
    Please check out these 7 pieces @ Mac Rumours:


    1) Apple's New iOS 6 Maps App Drawing Significant Criticism


    2) Black iPhone 5 Anodized Aluminum Susceptible to Scratching?


    3) LTE won't work on most European countries


    4) No NFC chip, no Wireless Charging, but with a new Lightning Connector instead


    5) Reports of Slow and Inconsistent Wi-Fi Connections on Some iPhone 5 Devices


    6) Siri Delivering Incorrect Weather Forecasts for Common City Names


    7) Fix for App Store and Passbook "Can't Connect to iTunes Store" Error


    It's a little too much, no? What happened to the testing phase?
    24 Sep 2012, 08:06 PM Reply Like
  • They still make better phones than Apple and better maps from what I have heard.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • Hmmm....could it be possible that Apple had other motivations in releasing the Apple Maps as is?



    The Chinese version of Apple Maps doesn't seem to be full of egregious mistakes, does it?
    25 Sep 2012, 01:44 PM Reply Like
  • Great find there. Previous Apple iPhone 4S sales volume was lifted by sales in China. The U.S. is nearly a saturated market for smartphones. It makes sense to bias towards China sales growth potential.
    25 Sep 2012, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Might as well, they are made there.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:15 AM Reply Like
  • Seems like we are finally getting some leaks as to why the Maps problem happened.....sounds like Google was trying to hurt Apple by offering better map tech to Android than to iOS....



    maybe Google should begin providing sub par search algorithms, custom made for iOS....then things will really hit the fan.....
    27 Sep 2012, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • Yah Scmidt didn't want to give aapl voice navi....even though there was another year left on agreement, sent aapl scrambling pretty good for last minute change in plans,,,
    27 Sep 2012, 02:16 PM Reply Like
  • Google made maps apps available to all the competing smartphone platforms but only provided turn-by-turn to Android, it seems Google didn't want to provide it for Apple because it would then likely be forced to provide it on other competing platforms as well.


    I can't say I blame Google, it has somthing like 1,500 full time employees and as many as 6000 contractors working on its maps, that's a lot of time money and effort it has invested.
    27 Sep 2012, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • Maps on iOS probably made them a lot of money given the amount of users, they should have done their best for that platform...I don't buy that they must provide it to only Android or to arrangements are not black and white like appears they were trying to provide an advantage to their platform....the simplest explanation is this one.....


    Over the medium to long term, Apple will be fine, and Google will have shot themselves in the up Google: yank search from iOS.....that would be entertaining.....
    27 Sep 2012, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • Scott,
    Maps seems to be not bad in the US, Looks to me like Google not only initiated the Map problem, but now, they are using deception to trick people into thinking the Maps are worse than they are....

    27 Sep 2012, 07:50 PM Reply Like


    ... and on Yahoo Maps



    What exactly is BGR trying to accomplish with this?
    27 Sep 2012, 08:01 PM Reply Like
  • Does anyone have iOS6?
    Can someone search for it and see what Apple comes up with?
    27 Sep 2012, 08:49 PM Reply Like
  • @Ronin.....thats not nice!.
    27 Sep 2012, 11:21 PM Reply Like
  • MapQuest gets it wrong.

    27 Sep 2012, 08:03 PM Reply Like
  • 315 E 15TH ST, NEW YORK NY 10003


    "The address you provided is not recognized by the US Postal Service as an address we serve. Mail sent to this address may be returned."

    27 Sep 2012, 08:07 PM Reply Like
  • It's a park. Would you expect the address of a person or business, or a real phone number, in an ad?



    Type in 317 instead of 315, and it still gets you close. The NYC Parks Department maintains Stuyvesant Square.


    Anyway, I am not sure what you are getting at here. I've seen the 3D view on iOS 6 using a New iPad, and the melting buildings and falling roadways are viewable. Clearly Apple Maps could use some fixes, otherwise why is Apple hiring former Google Maps staffers?
    27 Sep 2012, 08:28 PM Reply Like
  • If somebody listed "315 E 15TH ST, NEW YORK NY" as an address, then they must be referring to a building not a park. Otherwise, they would just say "STUYVESANT SQUARE, NEW YORK NY".


    Let's say you're a tourist and there's a concert in the park. You would tell the taxi driver: "Please take me to Stuyvesant Square" not "Please take me to "315 E. 15th St." If you prefer walking, you would take out your map (or iPhone) and then look for "Stuyvesant Square" not "315 E. 15th St."
    27 Sep 2012, 09:47 PM Reply Like