Seeking Alpha

More from Tesla Motors (TSLA -0.8%) CEO Elon Musk (previous): The company plans to add 9 stores,...

More from Tesla Motors (TSLA -0.8%) CEO Elon Musk (previous): The company plans to add 9 stores, 3 galleries, and 26 service centers by the end of this year. After the expansion is done, he notes 85% of all Model S reservation holders in North America will be within 50 miles of a Tesla Service Center and 92% will be within 100 miles.
Comments (39)
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    3 galleries??? WTF... are they now considering their cars as art? Like I said... Tesla = more toys for the rich.
    22 Oct 2012, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • weekendmoe
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    Well, here in Norway it`s a car for the middle class. I do not know of any rich reservation holders in Norway.

     

    Do some research and you`ll also find that a lot of the US reservation holders are average people really stretching their budget to be able to say goodbye to the outdated gas guzzlers. Noone wants to drive crappy gas-cars after trying electric cars.
    22 Oct 2012, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • nwdiver
    , contributor
    Comments (313) | Send Message
     
    I signed papers for my model S last week. I have a blue collar job. I seriously doubt anyone would call me "rich". It's an huge financial commitment but after a tour in Iraq I've realized how important breaking our addiction to oil is... Any true patriot has three options; drive electric, walk/bike or public transportation.
    22 Oct 2012, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • Vico Confino
    , contributor
    Comments (205) | Send Message
     
    I will be 80 on March 11, 2013.
    I have owned 19 Toyota's since 1978.
    Never had a major problem. Just serviced them drove them carefully like an auto should be. Getting tired of all you naysayers, short sellers and nit pickers panning Elon Musk and the car of the future. Trying to maintain my sense of humor in reading your dribble. I beg you to wipe the cobwebs from your eyes and get a life. Nuff sed. Have a nice day.
    Vico
    22 Oct 2012, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    >>>I beg you to wipe the cobwebs from your eyes and get a life.<<<

     

    Sounds like you live in the land of unicorns and fairies. Reality is... electric cars are a novelty. They always have been, ever since the dawn of the auto age. In fact, the electric cars produced in the early 1900's are actually more efficient (technically speaking) than the cars we have today. Funny how all the "feel goods" fail to take into account the logistics involved in producing electric cars on a wide scale basis. It's been analyzed many times over by those that know the truth of the problems involved in bringing these types of technologies to the marketplace.

     

    Same goes for all this bio mass algae crap the feel goods are trying con the public with. Yeah... nothing like paying $400 a gallon for JP4.
    22 Oct 2012, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • weekendmoe
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    I guess that comment was meant for me?

     

    I do not live in a land of unicorns and fairies. However, I live in a country where electric cars now are approaching 6% of total car sales, and the share keeps increasing.

     

    You should swing by Teslamotorsclub.com forum. Check the polls yourselves regarding people stretching to get the car :) Believing that the Model S is only for the rich is a common misunderstanding.

     

    And to repeat my previous statement: noone who tries a Leaf ever want to get back into a noisy, polluting and technologically outdated gas-guzzler.
    22 Oct 2012, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • sellis1234
    , contributor
    Comments (9) | Send Message
     
    I just want a nice car that doesn't run on gas. Now I can and have bought one.

     

    I'm not rich

     

    Gas prices will be insane soon.
    22 Oct 2012, 02:42 PM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    Just watched a show about John D. Rockefeller on History channel. Experts said Rockefeller lived in a land of unicorns and fairies when he was a near-bankrupt oil wildcatter in Ohio. But they don't say that now. To be sure some 90% of the wild-eyed visionaries go broke, but we have railroads and oil and iPhones from those that did not. Don't forget---the opinion writers get paid to write, not to be correct in what they write. It's too soon to know if Tesla will live or die, or why.
    22 Oct 2012, 02:43 PM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    Rockefeller was a refiner. He used Vanderbilt's rail roads to move his product, and later he built pipelines as the railroad owners got greedy and wanted a larger piece of the action.

     

    I'm a big fan of Elon Musk, as I used one of his companies to get a free wash on many thousands of dollars before he finally caught on. He's doing great with his space business, and will probably do okay with Tesla. I just don't see the ELV market taking hold, given the logistics and extreme regulations involved in bringing these technologies to the masses.
    22 Oct 2012, 03:09 PM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    If Big Oil and OPEC get as greedy as the railroads once did, then just maybe the electric vehicle will become more affordable, both comparatively and absolutely. Add environmental regulations for more incentive. But the missing ingredient for Tesla or for Volt and Leaf is a better battery and several of those are in the lab. It might be 20 or 50 years yet. I've lived long enough to watch several visionary/expensive/" ideas become cheap and commonplace.
    22 Oct 2012, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    >>>But the missing ingredient for Tesla or for Volt and Leaf is a better battery and several of those are in the lab. It might be 20 or 50 years yet.<<<

     

    Actually we have some pretty cool technologies in the pipe as we speak. Trouble is... it all depends on the "feel gooders" not cutting their own throats by imposing extreme regulations on the mining and processing of the materials that go into making those batteries. Never mind the requirements to upgrade the power grid to handle all of this new found transportation. The "feel gooders" are already cutting their own throats on that issue.

     

    http://bit.ly/TNTdmX

     

    http://bit.ly/UtDONZ

     

    http://nyti.ms/TNTfuO

     

    http://bit.ly/UtDQFz

     

    I guess in their feeble little minds, they think Obama is gonna sprinkle his magic fairy dust, and all he electricity required to power the cars will magically appear in the batteries each night.
    22 Oct 2012, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • nwdiver
    , contributor
    Comments (313) | Send Message
     
    No doubt some people are far too zealous in their desire to live a "no consequence" life. We're always going to have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

     

    The key component many cynics continue to overlook is that EVs are one pillar of a sustainable future. Wind and Solar are making huge strides at becoming an important part of the energy mix. The fact that they are intermittent sources INCREASES the importance of EVs. The importance of "on-demand" demand is minimal in most areas but will become more vital as wind/solar increase. I actually get free electricity at night since there isn't enough demand for the wind farms.

     

    In terms of energy transmission, while wind is rarely cited near large cities solar is. The power generated on my roof travels <100' before being consumed and I generate >120% of what I need.
    22 Oct 2012, 06:00 PM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    Obama has been sprinkling a lot of faerie dust, and the faeries are overjoyed with that. As for the grid feeding all those electric vehicles, see my report at http://bit.ly/QmH4JF

     

    Meanwhile, if there is no money to spread around, it will not matter what political philosophy is in vogue. We will be the next Greece. But this is way off the subject!

     

    My wife and I winter in Imperial County, CA which is home to all sorts of new geothermal, solar, wind and natural gas power plants and all that energy is going to coastal metropolises here in CA. None of it stays in Imperial County.
    22 Oct 2012, 08:24 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    Not sure what your "Report" is trying to say about the grid's ability to charge EV's. Yes, most charging will be done slowly at home, or at work, so what? That's not a strain on the grid.
    23 Oct 2012, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    >>>Yes, most charging will be done slowly at home, or at work, so what? That's not a strain on the grid<<<

     

    Not yet it is, as the number of car owners are so low.

     

    In the future if the magicians are correct in their projections, then yes, the nations electrical grid will be severely strained. Combine all the projected solar/wind projects, and you're looking at some major outages unless more reliever lines and smart grid technology can be built.

     

    http://1.usa.gov/T8F6rc
    23 Oct 2012, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    From your link:
    “Fast demand response is about 10 percent of the cost of grid-scale batteries—much cheaper than power plants.”

     

    A fleet of EV's plugged in provide a great opportunity for load throttling, thereby supporting the grid and increasing its stability. EV's will not strain the grid.
    27 Oct 2012, 09:25 PM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    >>>EV's will not strain the grid.<<<

     

    Maybe not in Obama's magic land of unicorns and fairies where everything is free, and all the citizens wear rose colored glasses, and smoke weed all day.... but here in the real world, yes... multiple thousands of EV's, along with expanded solar/wind plants, will over strain our current grid system... unless more capacity and newer technologies (smart grid) can be added and widely adopted. Unfortunately, the eco-freaks love eating their own, so any chance of grid expansion, or improvements is probably not going to happen anytime in the near future.

     

    http://bit.ly/S4d5C9

     

    http://bit.ly/U68dg1

     

    http://bit.ly/S4d5Ce

     

    http://bit.ly/TLrhpc

     

    http://bit.ly/S4d8xV
    27 Oct 2012, 10:50 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    Your links ignore the whole point of load management that EV's can provide. Timed charging, which already exists, and two way communications that allow charger throttling, eliminates all your concerns. Of course I don't expect you to acknowledge that possibility since it contradicts your tightly held preconceptions.
    The grid will improve to meet any demands, just as it always has.
    28 Oct 2012, 09:40 AM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    My report does not discuss the grid's ability to charge EV's. It does look at the cost to the EV owner to keep his/her EV recharged. In the example given, fully charging a high-end (85KWH) Tesla model S four times in one month will use as much energy from the grid as our suburban home uses that month. Just think of it as doubling your home's energy use.
    28 Oct 2012, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    Not true.
    1060 miles per month at 320 wh/mi is 339.2kWh's per month. The average US home uses 958kWh's per month, so your claim is false.
    http://1.usa.gov/RnwMrx
    28 Oct 2012, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • weekendmoe
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    Haha. You seem quite interrested in magic, unicorns, fairies and cobweb :) Not ordinary for grown up people, but then again maybe you`re a bit younger than I thought......
    28 Oct 2012, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • weekendmoe
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    At least here in Norway household electricity consumption is decreasing as heating and cooling gets more efficient due to improved building techniques/materials.

     

    So the extra consumption from electric cars are NO problem. And of course the grid will be improved where neccecary, and production of electricity will keep getting more and more renewable. Electric cars are the future, only "nay-sayers" who don`t care about sollutions claim otherwise.

     

    Glad I live in a land of bright and optimistic people (Norway) where electric cars has allready captured about 6% of the total car sales, and the share keeps increasing. The Tesla Model S has been received by norwegian car journalists as a total stunner, and the first norwegian journalist to test the car actually went as far as to reserve his own Model S. And he refused to be driven back to the airport in a Merc E-class after driving the Model S....... Says alot......
    28 Oct 2012, 01:00 PM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    JRP3: False in your home, perhaps. Our own home with over 2,000 square feet and 4 bedrooms with 3 adults living here used 441 KWH in September 2012. It was 359 KWH in August 2012 according to our Southern California Edison bills. Copy of bills available on request.

     

    Could it be that we conservatives are just a bit more conservative in our energy use? Of course, the benign local climate does help some.
    28 Oct 2012, 06:51 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    I used nationwide statistics, you used your own anecdotal experience, which is rather meaningless in the larger scale. My own experience is that my EV adds very little to my already low electrical usage, which is still lower than yours, averaging around 300kwh per month, in central NY state. I do live near work so my daily miles driven are much lower than average, and I can charge at work for free if I need to, which is rare.
    30 Oct 2012, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • 123man
    , contributor
    Comments (1095) | Send Message
     
    My wife I will be 65 in February 2013 - we are not wealthy by most standards, average more describes us - our Model S will be a stretch, but a worthwhile one - as an aside , Norway and the Nordic nations enjoy one the highest standards of living, AND living SATISFACTION in the world - to go along with their high taxes - I guess you need to get something for your money and what they get is cleaner air, universal healthcare, great educations and, better unemployment AND the willingness and ability to drive a Tesla - kudos
    22 Oct 2012, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • juicejack
    , contributor
    Comments (87) | Send Message
     
    On March 11, 2013 I'll be 68 years old. I've never bought a foreign car (unless you count a Chevy Luv). I'll keep buying American cars 'til they pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel, tiller or whatever.

     

    I"m willing to invest in Tesla and buy one. Just a touch of $4.50 gallon gas this past few weeks leads me to believe the oil companies are out to screw us, and it will only get worse.

     

    If I don't pay $300 for gasoline, I can buy a slightly more expensive than usual for me electric automobile. "nuff said.
    22 Oct 2012, 04:23 PM Reply Like
  • orthophonist
    , contributor
    Comments (126) | Send Message
     
    Elon Musk will be viewed, together with Steve Jobs, as one of the truly great visionaries of the 21st Century. We will all owe him a debt of gratitude as great strides in battery technology silent the strident voices of the short sighted.
    22 Oct 2012, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • Ed Lewis
    , contributor
    Comments (62) | Send Message
     
    Like weekendmoe and nwdriver, I am not a millionaire but I do want to do my part to help push the all-electric cars into the mainstream. I have been waiting for the moment when I will be (very shortly) getting behind my Tesla Signature performance vehicle and I will be happily showing it off to all my friends - and likely encouraging them to get one either now, if they can, or waiting until the 30K model comes out. Don't beat up on those who want to push us into the future when the air will be cleaner because of many moves toward reliable renewable energy; which will eventually be every where.
    23 Oct 2012, 03:04 AM Reply Like
  • 123man
    , contributor
    Comments (1095) | Send Message
     
    Ed's comment eludes to a key part of Tesla's marketing that does not get much attention - the simple fact that when we drive our Teslas anywhere, it will be a conversation starter, and the fact that we will not be apprehensive to both drive and discuss it will exponentially spread the news - this will drive sales as gas prices approach and then surpass $5.00 per gallon -
    23 Oct 2012, 09:43 AM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    Don't get me wrong. I like what Musk is doing. Go ahead and enjoy your Tesla cars. If you buy an 85KWH Tesla model S and drive it 1060 miles a month, or 12,720 miles a year, and if you recharge it from the grid, you will use as much energy as one suburban home. If a few thousand people do that the grid will take it. If everyone did that, the grid could not handle it. Simple.
    28 Oct 2012, 11:21 AM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    Even more simple, since most charging will occur over night, when the rest of the grid demand is low, the grid will handle it.
    However, 1060 miles per month at 320 wh/mi is 339.2kWh's per month. The average US home uses 958kWh's per month, so your claim is false.
    http://1.usa.gov/RnwMrx
    28 Oct 2012, 11:40 AM Reply Like
  • weekendmoe
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    It`s amazing how some people try to say electric cars arent going to happend and predict disaster, when the electric car so clearly is the future and the problems predicted are unrealistic (and those who are real are quite easy solvable....)
    28 Oct 2012, 01:05 PM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    >>>Even more simple, since most charging will occur over night, when the rest of the grid demand is low, the grid will handle it.<<<

     

    Just blows me away by the number of you "feel gooders" who live in LaLa land.

     

    You guys seem to forget that a level 2 charger pulls as much juice as an electric clothes dryer. Never mind the fact that most people in the average home (or apartment) don't have a spare 220v 40 amp leg, so they'll have to pay an electrician to wire one up, that is providing their panel has the circuit, or they'll have to leg off from the clothes dryer circuit. If not, then expect to pay big $$$ for an extra run courtesy of your local power company. Never mind that fact that in extreme temp conditions many people's heaters and A/C run constantly throughout the night. Nahhhh... that won't put any pressure on the grid, will it?

     

    Now... can our current grid system handle the current class of hobbyists and their little toy electric cars. YES! Can it handle a few more in the future, possibly.

     

    However, as electric cars become more prevalent and more widely adopted by the masses as serious transportation devices... then the entire grid will need to be upgraded at a cost that will surely be passed onto the consumers (via higher electric rates) to compensate for the influx of new energy demand.

     

    Course you guys in LaLa land don't see that do you? I guess just as long as YOU have juice to YOUR toys right here right now, screw everybody else in the future... huh?
    28 Oct 2012, 03:21 PM Reply Like
  • jkaness
    , contributor
    Comments (67) | Send Message
     
    False in your home, perhaps. Our own home with over 2000 square feet and 4 bedrooms with 3 adults living here used 441 KWH in September 2012. It was 359 KWH in August 2012 according to our Southern California Edison bill. Copy of bills available on request.
    28 Oct 2012, 05:01 PM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    Obviously you guys who are using only 359kwh, or the US home average of 958kwh per month, are not living in "all electric" homes. My usage during the summer months average 2800kwh. Winter usage averages 1800kwh.
    28 Oct 2012, 07:28 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    "Just blows me away by the number of you "feel gooders" who live in LaLa land."

     

    Just blows me away the number of you "feel badders" who think the grid doesn't get upgraded to handle extra loads, even though it always has. Your logic is the same as saying the invention of A/C, electric water heaters, electric dryers, and electric ovens, would crash the grid. Didn't happen did it? All those loads were added to the grid, without any special smart metering, and the grid survived. Amazing! How can that be? If the price of electricity has to go up a few pennies to cover it so what?
    30 Oct 2012, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • weekendmoe
    , contributor
    Comments (138) | Send Message
     
    How about the internet. It`s going to totally crash soon! People talking about sending pictures and videos over the internet are totally crazy and live in la la land with cobweb, unicorns, fairydust and lots of lots of other silly things. It cannot handle more traffic, and is obviously going to break down if everyone gets a computer. Mark my words....
    31 Oct 2012, 09:10 AM Reply Like
  • azblackbird
    , contributor
    Comments (358) | Send Message
     
    >>> It cannot handle more traffic, and is obviously going to break down if everyone gets a computer. Mark my words....<<<

     

    Nope, you just get throttled back if you're using too much bandwidth. You can ask the gamers about that ploy. Same goes for smart grid technology. You start using too much juice, the power company will throttle you back. It happens all the time in certain sections of the country whenever there are high load days. Course you guys living in LaLa land wouldn't know about that would ya?

     

    http://bit.ly/Y0FKgB

     

    http://bit.ly/ScUtQs
    31 Oct 2012, 12:40 PM Reply Like
  • JRP3
    , contributor
    Comments (7858) | Send Message
     
    You guys living in dodo land wouldn't understand that a fleet of batteries plugged into the grid can help avoid rolling blackouts through load throttling would ya? Smart metering is coming and it will strengthen the grid, especially with battery packs plugged into it.
    1 Nov 2012, 08:50 AM Reply Like
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)
ETF Tools
Find the right ETFs for your portfolio:
Seeking Alpha's new ETF Hub
ETF Investment Guide:
Table of Contents | One Page Summary
Read about different ETF Asset Classes:
ETF Selector

Next headline on your portfolio:

|