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"This was better than the Giants winning the World Series ... people are really excited." That's...

"This was better than the Giants winning the World Series ... people are really excited." That's how an NYT source describes the mood among Apple (AAPL) employees following Scott Forstall's removal. Om Malik basically reports the same, though he adds many think replacement Craig Federighi "is someone who needs to prove himself." Forstall's refusal to sign an apology letter for iOS 6 Maps was apparently the final straw, though all signs point to other factors also being at work.
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Comments (34)
  • wigit5
    , contributor
    Comments (4119) | Send Message
     
    I wonder if he protested against releasing the Apple Maps App and that's why he refused to sign an apology. Perhaps he didn't feel responsible?

     

    We'll probably never know the whole story unfortunately would make for an interesting read.
    30 Oct 2012, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • DanoX
    , contributor
    Comments (2697) | Send Message
     
    We will know the story early next year with 6 months, Scott Forstall will be working at Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo take your choice of competitor's.
    30 Oct 2012, 01:36 PM Reply Like
  • Barn Al
    , contributor
    Comments (152) | Send Message
     
    Wow... Good point. I think I'll go back and watch the event to see if he is dropping any clues. ( BTW, I have been having great luck with Maps. I actually like it very much)
    30 Oct 2012, 10:50 AM Reply Like
  • wigit5
    , contributor
    Comments (4119) | Send Message
     
    Its certainly not as bad in most areas as people think. And yes Google maps has its fair share of errors. But I still think Apple made a big mistake releasing it.

     

    Apple has an image to uphold and the Apple Maps (it's irrelevant that it's just one app on their product it tarnishes the brand so fanboys calm down) took that image down a notch. It showed they aren't as perfect as they have been over the last years (which isn't really accurate either they had a few flop ideas and I think the iTv will be next not because its not a great product but price is king and TV deals are scarce).
    30 Oct 2012, 10:59 AM Reply Like
  • Barn Al
    , contributor
    Comments (152) | Send Message
     
    Totally agree.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • sses
    , contributor
    Comments (45) | Send Message
     
    Apple maps are more advanced. They use the vector engine which allows for better labeling and infinite zoom without pixelation. And their maps are more current than Google's from what I have seen so far.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • wigit5
    , contributor
    Comments (4119) | Send Message
     
    @sses

     

    More advanced in every way except being maps.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • rdslater
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    If you travel internationally and need directions in English, Apple maps is nearly worthless. It doesn't matter if the underlying technology is better, the global data maturity of the Apple app is inferior.

     

    But one can still download Google maps app, utilized via Safari, and it works just fine. I am not selling stock over this.
    30 Oct 2012, 12:53 PM Reply Like
  • gensearch2
    , contributor
    Comments (1467) | Send Message
     
    I've had no problems at all with Apple maps ... There was one gliche that came up but when I checked it with Google Maps and a Garmin they all made the same mistake. It wasn't a map problem per se, but a logic problem.

     

    If I wasn't using Apple maps, I've use the mapquest app for voice turn by turn.

     

    Consumer Reports was likely correct about their Apple maps assessment ... It's not that bad and it will get better.

     

    Most Apple problems are blown way out of proportion. Antennagate was a good illustration of that. You had to hold the phone in a death grip to make it fail.

     

    Apple maps is not a mature product. Nor has it been on the street for 10 years either.
    30 Oct 2012, 08:13 PM Reply Like
  • johnofarizonaoregon
    , contributor
    Comments (278) | Send Message
     
    Apple did not make a mistake in releasing Apple Maps when they did. With a product like any maps product, it can only become better, never perfect, and can only become better with more use and more data input from usage.

     

    Apple had no logical choice other than to release the product and take the flack. They did the right thing.

     

    Google maps are great, but since I appreciate the pioneering work Apple did in designing and introducing the first true smartphone which everyone else has been competing against and stealing from ever since... I boycott Google at every opportunity and opt for an Apple way to do search, navigating, etc, to avoid helping the thieves and bullies at Google.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:03 PM Reply Like
  • interzone826
    , contributor
    Comments (186) | Send Message
     
    Then Apple should have called it "Apple Maps Beta" and simply asked for their customers' input to better the data, as a collective project. Apple screwed up royally here, no matter how many people Maps worked fine for. Apple exposed itself needlessly to bad press. Had they indicated it was a work in progress, the PR problem would never have happened. The screwed up. No amount of rationalization changes that.
    31 Oct 2012, 02:57 AM Reply Like
  • iknow777
    , contributor
    Comments (32) | Send Message
     
    Remember these people report to Cook , So I ask you who really is to blame? It's hard to fill a big person's shoes but don't blame others if you the captain ran the ship aground.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:05 AM Reply Like
  • qiuhong
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    It's definitely a good news to remove the bad seeds from the company.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:28 AM Reply Like
  • drrjv
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Nice to see that Tim Cook has the guts to get rid of poor performers. Wonder what would have happened if Gates dumped Ballmer?
    30 Oct 2012, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • earlalbin
    , contributor
    Comments (97) | Send Message
     
    Bad is an opinion, let's call him different. You know this is really no different when the ,"Shirts," ran Steve Jobs out of Cupertino. NO different.

     

    WE at Apple used to make fun of and laugh ar sick Steve Jobs jokes. Not that he wasn't eccentric and hard to understand (deserved some criticism to be sure), but it was an ,"Old boy network." You are eithet in or out.

     

    To think this solves any problems or makes Apple better is foolish thinking. Yes Cook deserved the blame because it's his pay grade. He wasn't blind sighted. The board isn't getting rid of him just yet for good economy reasons, but I'm betting he is on notice himself.

     

    Blaming someone else for Mapgate is just that, blame.

     

    And I agree that Google maps are bad, bad, bad, bad as well. Google maps told me I had a bank branch location at an empty lot. It told me there was a gas station where there a house 40 years old. Imagine had I been low on gas and actually depended on that information.

     

    Anyone thinking Google maps aren't bad don't use them or work for google, either way they arentt from this galaxy.
    30 Oct 2012, 11:44 AM Reply Like
  • criticalbear
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    Just like when jobs blamed papermaster for antennagate right?
    30 Oct 2012, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • rocback
    , contributor
    Comments (1015) | Send Message
     
    The best thing is that the man who some say was more responsible than Steve Jobs for bring Apple back, Mr. Ives, has been given a much bigger role which includes replacing Forstall. I feel like my fantasy team just dropped Tim Tebow and hired Drew Brees.
    30 Oct 2012, 12:12 PM Reply Like
  • DanoX
    , contributor
    Comments (2697) | Send Message
     
    Wasn't Forstall a software engineer, how is Ive replacing him at the programing level, I understand Scott Forstall was the driving force behind the core of OS X being used on the iPhone, imagine if it had been Linux like the other completing team at wanted, if Apple had used Linux, the OS on the iPhone and iPad would have been forked by Google like Amazon and Samsung are doing to Android.
    30 Oct 2012, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • sduris
    , contributor
    Comments (574) | Send Message
     
    Good things happening with AAPL. It will all be good in the end. An apology letter? I still think maps was much ado about nothing. Still - Still - I have found no issues whatsoever in my maps. They should have followed the antenna gate strategy. But that's neither here nor there. In my opinion, if his refusal to sign an apology letter was his undoing, they were looking for anything - even as trivial as that - to get rid of him. It's all good for AAPL. Long A-A-P-L.
    30 Oct 2012, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • DeepValueLover
    , contributor
    Comments (8661) | Send Message
     
    Nokia should hire him.
    30 Oct 2012, 12:35 PM Reply Like
  • Remyngton
    , contributor
    Comments (354) | Send Message
     
    famous last words
    30 Oct 2012, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • Kgee
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Man, I really hate to say this because I love Apple so much, but I think this is just a sign of the beginning of their fall from grace. If Jobs was still alive and there, this would have never happened.

     

    The mere fact that people are happy Scott is gone and then the added fact that the iOS has been so successful tells me that Scott was very demanding on his people, just like Steve was in his younger days and that is exactly what made iOS so great. Now you will see the quality get worse, deadlines missed, more bugs, more issues, etc... as time goes no. Dumb move by Apple.

     

    Don't get me wrong, by no means am I saying that Scott was another Steve Jobs. He was not, but he is up there as one of those A players that Apple is so famous for and without Steve there to pre-qualify new A players, the quality of employees Apple hires won't be as high as before.

     

    I can see the bad decisions already starting, this being one of them. This is only the beginning. Just my opinion. What do you guys think?
    30 Oct 2012, 12:50 PM Reply Like
  • rocback
    , contributor
    Comments (1015) | Send Message
     
    I disagree. It was a good move to remove an irritant to the other heads as opposed to his underlings. Also.Forstall has been disgruntled since he was passed over for CEO. Why do you think he sold 95% of his shares a few months ago. On top of that he has been replaced by someone everyone at Apple considers a god, Ivy. Ivy, not Forstall, was with Steve Jobs since neXt. In fact many think it was Ivy who saved Apple and Jobs got the credit. This is a VERY good move in my humble opinion to give Forstalls responsibility to Ivy.
    30 Oct 2012, 01:33 PM Reply Like
  • DanoX
    , contributor
    Comments (2697) | Send Message
     
    So letting him go to work for a competitor is best?, he's A list, and Scott Forstall was in the middle of every major advance of OS X, and iOS, there at the beginning. forget what the geeks say on tech forums the software groups at Apple have executed the last 15-16 years no one has done it better and he was a very big part of it, Next is OS X and iOS.
    30 Oct 2012, 01:58 PM Reply Like
  • sduris
    , contributor
    Comments (574) | Send Message
     
    Incorrect rocback, Steve hired SF to NeXT out of Stanford. Ive was at AAPL where Steve met him.
    30 Oct 2012, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • rocback
    , contributor
    Comments (1015) | Send Message
     
    Thanks for correcting me. You are correct about Ives not being at neXt with Jobs but I stand by the rest of my post. Apparently so do the analysts:

     

    "Apple's executive shakeup will end well due to Jonathan Ive's influence, analysts say:

     

    Reuters

     

    Posted: 10/30/2012 09:03:34 AM PDT

     

    The exit of Apple's (AAPL) longtime mobile software products chief may be a surprise, but a band of able executives led by Tim Cook and a bigger role for design boss Jonathan Ive mean the Cupertino company is in good hands, analysts said Tuesday.

     

    Ive, Apple's celebrated industrial design chief will now look into both hardware and software designs, following the departure of Scott Forstall after years of friction with other top executives.

     

    "Yesterday's announcement all but confirmed that Ive will be with the company for the foreseeable future, putting to rest

     

    a recurring investor concern of an Apple without Ive," Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster said in a research note. "This, combined with Tim Cook's nine years remaining on his contract with Apple, suggests the two most critical management figures will be in place for the longer term."
    John Browett, recently hired as Apple's retail chief, will also leave, the company said on Monday.

     

    Eddy Cue, who runs online products, will lead Apple Maps and its Siri voice search software, while Craig Federighi, who oversees the OSX software that powers the Macintosh computers, will take charge of the iOS software.

     

    "We think that despite the departure of Forstall who ran iOS development, iOS's future is in good hands," Munster said.

     

    Forstall

     

    -- longtime lieutenant of late Apple cofounder Steve Jobs -- refused to sign a public apology after the mapping software on the latest iPhone contained embarrassing errors and drew fierce criticism, Reuters reported citing sources.
    His departure was years in the making, and came to a head with the Apple Maps incident, sources said.

     

    "Though Scott Forstall's departure is a surprise, this appears to be part of Tim Cook putting his own stamp on the company, and importantly, he is still surrounded by several key long-time Apple executives and innovators," Robert W. Baird analyst William Power said.
    30 Oct 2012, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • sduris
    , contributor
    Comments (574) | Send Message
     
    Steve hired Scott to join him at NeXT. And Scott became part of AAPL with the NeXT acquisition.
    30 Oct 2012, 02:45 PM Reply Like
  • Gary Bushwacher
    , contributor
    Comments (544) | Send Message
     
    I made the point on another thread but it bears repeating.

     

    Yes, maps wasn't totally ready, but no matter when it was launched, it was going to have inaccuracies - clearly the sooner the launch the more issues.

     

    They would have been criticized whenever they launched, so bite the bullet, and get on with it. Fact is, it'll be finetuned quickly with 100M installed base helping.

     

    And it had to be done sooner than later, because using google version without voice is too much of a handicap to accept.

     

    I frankly don't think anyone is to blame, not Cook, not Scott, not Apple. It had to be done quick and it couldn't be done quickly without blemishs, live with it folks and enjoy it. I know I do
    30 Oct 2012, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • rocback
    , contributor
    Comments (1015) | Send Message
     
    In addition to improving things by Ives taking over responsibilities, many have missed another big benefit of this. Bob Mansfield will lead a new group, Technologies, which combines all of Apple’s wireless teams across the company in one organization, fostering innovation in this area at an even higher level. This organization will also include the semiconductor teams, who have ambitious plans for the future.

     

    In other words, Apple understands that in our cloud-centric connected future, the company needs to not only care about the “human interface” and the “industrial design” but that all of those pieces have to work seamlessly with the guts and nerves of digital devices — chips and the networking technologies. With Cue, Ive and Mansfield, Cook has ensured that Apple is putting its best foot forward. Forstall is no longer part of this future fortunately for Apple.
    30 Oct 2012, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • DanoX
    , contributor
    Comments (2697) | Send Message
     
    Maybe, should we all hold hands and have a sing song now?
    30 Oct 2012, 03:12 PM Reply Like
  • outerbankssailor
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Apple should not have presented maps as if it were the greatest thing ever. It should have been presented as a work in progress. It's not horrible but its not finished. Everyone's expectations for the app were much too high which caused all the problems.

     

    None of us on the outside can know the problems with working with Scott. If he thought maps was a finished product and encouraged its presentation as such he deserved to be fired, PERIOD.
    30 Oct 2012, 04:17 PM Reply Like
  • DanoX
    , contributor
    Comments (2697) | Send Message
     
    So the person who stick his neck out, Scott Forstall who was able to come up with iOS should be canned for the misfire on one or two programs.

     

    A OS where he put together the team, a team which then when on to design the OS for all the mobile devices that Apple makes and profits from at a immense level not seen by any tech company today a huge profit center that didn't exist five years ago bigger than Google and Microsoft.

     

    Siri and Maps work very well for the non geek public by the way, in fact I want Siri and Maps to be ported over to the Mac, which will of course be done in the near future.
    30 Oct 2012, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • alphafemme
    , contributor
    Comments (68) | Send Message
     
    Forstall was known to be a divisive person. That's why he was fired.

     

    This is a great move for innovation at Apple, and a brilliant move on the part of Tim Cook.

     

    As Bill Clinton would say: He's got brass! Tim Cook just took Apple out of the clouded limbo it's been in since the last months of Steve Jobs' illness. He's propelling the company into a clear and positive future.

     

    Alone the move of giving Jony Ive free reign over all aspects of design is going to bring new changes. And the whole team is going to be much more collaborative and cooperative. I believe this is going to bring a whole new era of great products and design. I can hardly wait to see what's going to come!
    31 Oct 2012, 03:41 AM Reply Like
  • sduris
    , contributor
    Comments (574) | Send Message
     
    ok, bailin, you reeled me in, when you say "typical marketing guy" what do you mean? Just curious.
    31 Oct 2012, 11:45 AM Reply Like
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