Seeking Alpha

More on Nonfarm payrolls: The guts aren't as pretty as the headline. Revisions downward to the...

More on Nonfarm payrolls: The guts aren't as pretty as the headline. Revisions downward to the Sept. and Oct. numbers total 49K, about equal to the 53K beat. The improvement in the unemployment rate comes as the labor force participation rate falls to 63.6% from 63.8. The employment-population ratio falls to 58.7% from 58.8%. The average workweek is flat at 34.4 hours.
Comments (30)
  • youngman442002
    , contributor
    Comments (5131) | Send Message
     
    350,000 more workers quit working....no work...no income..no tax REVENUES....
    7 Dec 2012, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • davidingeorgia
    , contributor
    Comments (2713) | Send Message
     
    Not to worry. Helicopter Ben will print up some more "money" to pay for their disability, welfare and food stamps with.
    7 Dec 2012, 08:49 AM Reply Like
  • RSI Raistlin
    , contributor
    Comments (400) | Send Message
     
    he'll print to the detriment of the "other" poor, low fixed income elderly who used to rely on the interest in their accounts for augmented income......
    7 Dec 2012, 10:09 AM Reply Like
  • Bill L.
    , contributor
    Comments (682) | Send Message
     
    The Fed "printing money" is an oversimplification, and people on welfare are not the beneficiaries of the fractional reserve banking system. In a fractional reserve system the Fed and their customers (consumer banks) are creating credit. While this is a growth in money supply, this is not the same as simply printing money and giving it away. I do not approve of indefinite welfare, but historical evidence is very clear, when credit is grown in this fashion the big beneficiaries are not those on the low spectrum of the economic food chain. They in fact are hurt the most since they are the most affected by inflation. They big beneficiaries are 1) financial paper assets, and thus the holders of such assets 2) those who under the Fed's provision are allowed to create loans while only having a fraction held in reserves (especially if you are not held accountable for losses, thank you tax payers). In both cases this tends to be Banks. In the simplest terms, Banks win, the majority tends to lose.

     

    The entire economic/political discussion right now is about one thing: pain. There is a lot if coming, it is past due and everyone is going to feel it. Special interest are jockeying to make sure their share is the smallest.

     

    -Bill L.
    7 Dec 2012, 03:17 PM Reply Like
  • wigit5
    , contributor
    Comments (4102) | Send Message
     
    Average work week hours will probably drop next month due to ACA correct? Or is that a bad assumption...
    7 Dec 2012, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (9741) | Send Message
     
    Lots of good stuff in these numbers...can you figure out what they are??
    7 Dec 2012, 08:42 AM Reply Like
  • davidingeorgia
    , contributor
    Comments (2713) | Send Message
     
    I'm sure that I could figure out what the "good stuff" is...if I was delusional. Thanks anyway, but no thanks. Pass the pipe to someone else.
    7 Dec 2012, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (9741) | Send Message
     
    Love the negative view,,,keep it up
    7 Dec 2012, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • mickmars
    , contributor
    Comments (1323) | Send Message
     
    "labor force participation rate falls to 63.6% from 63.8%"

     

    That's not a negative view... it's a negative number.
    7 Dec 2012, 10:29 AM Reply Like
  • maverta
    , contributor
    Comments (329) | Send Message
     
    why can't anyone look at the glass half full anymore?
    7 Dec 2012, 08:43 AM Reply Like
  • berbno1
    , contributor
    Comments (1357) | Send Message
     
    lots of people do, just not the GOP 47%...I'll be damned if even after the election, they want to continue paint doom and gloom. How about they jump to GOP "Plan Z" and talk positive the next four years. Then let Bachman/Palin battle Clinton/Warren for the WH...feelin' like the glass is more than half full!
    7 Dec 2012, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • wigit5
    , contributor
    Comments (4102) | Send Message
     
    Hasn't clinton denied a 2016 bid?
    7 Dec 2012, 09:58 AM Reply Like
  • berbno1
    , contributor
    Comments (1357) | Send Message
     
    Probably, but don't you really think Bill was laying the ground work? She'll get bored and with her approval rating, I'll put my money she'll be approached for the good of the country. Plus it's fun to picture the Repubs getting their knickers in a knot.
    7 Dec 2012, 10:13 AM Reply Like
  • mickmars
    , contributor
    Comments (1323) | Send Message
     
    Just because a commenter has a negative opinion of a jobs report doesn't mean they support GOP. Both parties are bought and paid for now.

     

    Just wait until your boy Obama caves on defense cuts and taxing the rich.

     

    $16.4 Trillion in debt... and counting.
    7 Dec 2012, 10:37 AM Reply Like
  • coelacanth10
    , contributor
    Comments (78) | Send Message
     
    Payroll numbers need to be up 250,000 every month just to stay even. These numbers tell us little about improvement in the economy and according to John Hussman are lagging indicators of recession, which means they have little predicative value vs. the Philadelphia or Chicago manufacturing indexes, which have been down recently. These numbers may be spun politically, but there is little reason for optimism about the future shape of our economy, based on the lack of leadership in Washington from all three branches, and their lack of desire to structurally deal with the mountain of debt.
    7 Dec 2012, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • Old Rick
    , contributor
    Comments (503) | Send Message
     
    Here's a glass less than half full view from ZH: Job gains in the 55-69 demographic, +177K. Job declines in the 25-54 demographic, -359K. What made the headline number positive was seasonal adjustments. U6 is still in the 14.5% area. 25-54 total employment now back to 1997 levels. I'm curious how you koolaid drinkers think that a constantly declining participation rate that is the lowest since 1979 means the glass is half full. Oh yeah, it's all GWBs fault.
    7 Dec 2012, 01:27 PM Reply Like
  • anonymous#12
    , contributor
    Comments (552) | Send Message
     
    Overall a good report. The trend is clear, the economy is growing.
    7 Dec 2012, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8087) | Send Message
     
    Great news today. The market should roar on this news.
    7 Dec 2012, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • Terry330
    , contributor
    Comments (867) | Send Message
     
    What a great leader we have in President Obama,America is looking forward to his next 4 years.
    7 Dec 2012, 08:45 AM Reply Like
  • SoldHigh
    , contributor
    Comments (1013) | Send Message
     
    Four more years of failure - but poor, poor Barry inherited such a mess from his predecessor!
    7 Dec 2012, 09:02 AM Reply Like
  • youngman442002
    , contributor
    Comments (5131) | Send Message
     
    like the revisions down.....like the loss of construction jobs...manufacturing jobs.....gain in retail jobs and we know how high paying they are.....government jobs....its funny how the government doesn´t even know how many they employ.....?????
    7 Dec 2012, 08:46 AM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (9741) | Send Message
     
    You are missing 3 leading indicators in the payroll survey...which remain positive
    7 Dec 2012, 09:01 AM Reply Like
  • MasonK
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    So we over shot employment numbers by 49k the two months leading up to the election. No kidding
    7 Dec 2012, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • Johann Galt
    , contributor
    Comments (236) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, Jack Welch was a madman!
    7 Dec 2012, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • Padawan learner
    , contributor
    Comments (60) | Send Message
     
    I love SA, the information is far less politicized. The comments may get politicized, but the overall information is far superior. Here is the one sided lead in headline from another site “Jobless rate drops to 4-year low, economy creates 146,000 jobs “
    We seem to be trending and striving for full employment achievement with only 50% of the population looking for work.
    7 Dec 2012, 10:35 AM Reply Like
  • june1234
    , contributor
    Comments (2628) | Send Message
     
    What I love is how they can get so enthusiastic about the labor force participation rate again falling and usual downward revisions for October’s- 33,000 and September’s growth -16,000 .On the surface that might seem to make their reporting of the last 5 years appear incompetent which I do not believe they are
    7 Dec 2012, 11:31 AM Reply Like
  • mikeycblue
    , contributor
    Comments (34) | Send Message
     
    Keep in mind that as the baby boomer population bubble retires, we are going to see a decrease in overall labor force participation rate.
    7 Dec 2012, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • Old Rick
    , contributor
    Comments (503) | Send Message
     
    Mike, The biggest gain in the jobs report was in the 55-69 demographic at +359K. 25-54 Demographic lost jobs.
    7 Dec 2012, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • surfnspy
    , contributor
    Comments (415) | Send Message
     
    "The biggest gain in the jobs report was in the 55-69 demographic at +359K"

     

    Walmart greeters?
    7 Dec 2012, 02:41 PM Reply Like
  • mikeycblue
    , contributor
    Comments (34) | Send Message
     
    Look at the trend, not one month. Best of luck!
    7 Dec 2012, 03:40 PM Reply Like
DJIA (DIA) S&P 500 (SPY)
ETF Tools
Find the right ETFs for your portfolio:
Seeking Alpha's new ETF Hub
ETF Investment Guide:
Table of Contents | One Page Summary
Read about different ETF Asset Classes:
ETF Selector