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Pres. Obama's budget underestimates federal deficits by $2.3T over the coming decade, according...

Pres. Obama's budget underestimates federal deficits by $2.3T over the coming decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office. His budgets would produce deficits totaling $9.5T over 10 years rather than his expected $7.2T. Chief reason for the discrepancy: Obama uses rosier economic assumptions.
Comments (134)
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (3992) | Send Message
     
    It's ok, as former RNC chairman Michael Steele explained to us, the CBO lies and is a tool of the government which controls what it can say. So no point caring about what the CBO says since they are liars.
    18 Mar 2011, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4011) | Send Message
     
    The only politicians who seem to care about deficits are usually out of power, with the possible exception of the Tea Party, but it looks like the mainstream Republicans have them in check.
    18 Mar 2011, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Obama is not looking forward as far as the coming decade.
    Only results of the Nov 2012 elections.

     

    After that it will be somebody else's responsibility for "Hope and Change."
    18 Mar 2011, 07:00 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1500) | Send Message
     
    Yep, I agree with 1980...;

     

    Obama is looking for re-election....

     

    Where does he gets it's forecast for the economy growing faster than the 2000s with above 4% GDP growth and the unemployment rate getting to 5% in 2013...that are exaggerated statistics...
    18 Mar 2011, 07:07 PM Reply Like
  • HA65MPH
    , contributor
    Comments (1366) | Send Message
     
    Citizens , We , ..Are in Very Deep ..DOO-DOO .
    18 Mar 2011, 07:11 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Holy Crap Joe. Agreement?

     

    I just fell off my chair! LOL

     

    Regards
    18 Mar 2011, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7699) | Send Message
     
    Does anyone seriously believe that this number is not understated?
    Hope and change wasn't suposed to mean lie and decieve; or was it?
    The goal was to sink America: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
    18 Mar 2011, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4011) | Send Message
     
    "Hope and change wasn't suposed to mean lie and decieve; or was it?"
    Only if you believed it in the first place.
    18 Mar 2011, 07:33 PM Reply Like
  • Geoffrey Rocca
    , contributor
    Comments (69) | Send Message
     
    Rosier economic projections...so Congress is replacing one wild guess with another.
    18 Mar 2011, 07:30 PM Reply Like
  • Morocco Bama
    , contributor
    Comments (130) | Send Message
     
    yes but a less wilder guess.
    18 Mar 2011, 07:45 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Look for a cut in the USA's credit rating in 2012 if serious spending cuts aren't implemented soon. You know what that means for interest rates on the debt. The cuts include Medicare and Social Security, I'm sorry to say, being senior and all. We need to immediately go back to 2008 levels of spending.
    18 Mar 2011, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Japan will likely not be buying our debt going forward as they have to invest internally so that source of funds will dry up and they might even have to sell Treasury Securities. Both possibilities will push up rates.

     

    In one sense rates should already be higher as the Fed is buying Treasuries because there is not enough demand at current rates.
    19 Mar 2011, 10:12 AM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1848) | Send Message
     
    Hey guys, this is a rounding error if you look at it from the standpoint of the larger utopian agenda. That's a lot of money he's spreading around there, and it's for the "children."

     

    I can't believe he's got me wishing for Clinton, but I do, even Hilary. forget 2008 levels, how about 1999 levels when we had surpluses.
    18 Mar 2011, 08:13 PM Reply Like
  • cook5520
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    You are just now wishing for Clinton??? I was wishing for Clinton 2 years ago. I am reduced to wishing for Carter at this point!
    19 Mar 2011, 06:27 AM Reply Like
  • wkl
    , contributor
    Comments (289) | Send Message
     
    I thought this was Carter.
    19 Mar 2011, 12:16 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1848) | Send Message
     
    LOL - I fear change, especially this much and in the wrong direction....
    19 Mar 2011, 07:43 PM Reply Like
  • BlueOkie
    , contributor
    Comments (4708) | Send Message
     
    Carter gave us the Cruise Missiles so we could fire 110 at a cost of a Million or two each at Africa
    20 Mar 2011, 08:09 AM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Blue Okie

     

    Actually about $600K each.
    20 Mar 2011, 09:18 AM Reply Like
  • User 487974
    , contributor
    Comments (1105) | Send Message
     
    What President? This fool isn't even close to being president of a bunch of first graders! This isn't Obama's anything! It's George Soros' and communist's Van Jones/Valerie Jarrett, progressive perversion of this great country! I don't know if we can survive Barry's time left in office. This country has NEVER faced a bigger threat, from anyone/anywhere than this megalomaniac! Lord have mercy on us all!
    18 Mar 2011, 08:15 PM Reply Like
  • stocknerd
    , contributor
    Comments (1266) | Send Message
     
    Jerry you sound like an old angry white guy. I bet you are. Sure they all lie to you. Better end it now. Culture wars, which side are you on?
    18 Mar 2011, 08:46 PM Reply Like
  • pcg396
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Jerry, you sound like a smart guy -- regardless of your age, race or emotional state, which are, of course, irrelevant to your argument, unless your name is Stocknerd.
    18 Mar 2011, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • Terry330
    , contributor
    Comments (866) | Send Message
     
    Jerry, W. Bush is the fool of the century, for cutting taxes for wealthy and borrowing billions from China for never ending wars. Turn off Rush and Fox and join the adults in America.
    18 Mar 2011, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • Good Captain
    , contributor
    Comments (455) | Send Message
     
    Terry,
    I had some issues w/ Bush although likely different than those you probably had w/ him, but unfortunately, the clear trend line since Obama assumed office runs decidedly against Obama being the better president save the clear fact that Obama has a much better Teleprompter than Bush did.
    18 Mar 2011, 11:20 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7699) | Send Message
     
    Terry:
    You poor pathetic little brain. You can never discuss anything without bringing up Bush. Read a newspaper, Bush is no longer President.
    19 Mar 2011, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • Dan Detroit
    , contributor
    Comments (92) | Send Message
     
    Terry330- You do know that Obama created far more debt in his first 100 days than Bush did in 8 years, don't you?
    What a foolish comment!
    btw- Only congress has the power to tax and spend, not the president. His power is limited to signing or vetoing bills. Democrats controlled congress for the last 2 years of Bush's second term, and are responsible for all spending since they took control.
    19 Mar 2011, 08:57 AM Reply Like
  • wkl
    , contributor
    Comments (289) | Send Message
     
    You may think of Bush as the fool, but there is nothing to fear from the village idiot. But, there is much to fear from the village con man. We currently have as president the village con man.
    19 Mar 2011, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (834) | Send Message
     
    Stocknerd, you sound like a bigotted multi-culti knee jerk leftist agitator with that stupid "old angry white guy" line. Where'd you pick it up, a box of crackerjacks?

     

    Obama is the worst President in our lifetimes and is bankrupting us. If you arent angry about the fall of our nation at the hands of incompetents, then you aren't paying attention.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:36 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1848) | Send Message
     
    This is like a bad presidential card game and Obama has seen W's bet keeping Gitmo and the existing war, and is now raising him one bankrupt country and a third war!

     

    There is no difference in W and O except in degree of stupidity and recklessness, and degree of ownership by the banks, like GS.
    19 Mar 2011, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • SSALarry
    , contributor
    Comments (235) | Send Message
     
    The Republican House cut a bunch of non-essential stuff like our membership in some climate change organization, which the Democratic Senate put right back in.
    Cutting is hard, one person's waste is another person's pet project, which is why Obama has been staying out of the fight. His plan is to stay out of the budget cutting so when people get mad at what is cut, he can claim he isn't responsible. That's some leadership.
    18 Mar 2011, 08:33 PM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4011) | Send Message
     
    "...[o]ne person's waste is another person's pet project..."
    The easiest way to get reelected is to fund whatever your big contributors and important interest groups want. Nothing else really matters unless you have integrity; but, then, you wouldn't be a politician. The average voter doesn't understand this which explains why deficits don't matter to politicians.
    18 Mar 2011, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Well you have the government you deserve. It's a republic after all, and if you stopped bickering about gay marriage for 5 minutes and learned something about finance i'm sure someone could turn things around.

     

    Even Warren Buffet admitted that its the minority "elites" waging "class warfare" on the majority poor- and they are winning!

     

    When Americans spend more time watching college basketball than studying their own personal or national finances/politics/poli... economy, of course the elites can rip them off blind without anybody noticing or even caring.

     

    I'm sure the 270 million 'average' people could do something versus the 30 million 'elites' if they had enough education and interest to do anything.

     

    But then again American Idol is soooo interesting and important!!!!!!!!
    18 Mar 2011, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    FX maven,

     

    They're watching much more important stuff than basketball.

     

    Try American Idol, The Bachelor, and THE BIGGEST LOSER.
    Pun intended.
    18 Mar 2011, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • Francis Meyrick
    , contributor
    Comments (86) | Send Message
     
    "The average voter doesn't understand this which explains why deficits don't matter to politicians. "

     

    Correct. Plus the average voter is:
    1) too young to remember inflation,
    2) not interested enough to bother to try and understand it.

     

    Print on!
    18 Mar 2011, 09:37 PM Reply Like
  • Egg
    , contributor
    Comments (268) | Send Message
     
    And the CBO, itself, probably underestimated the deficits by another 2-3T on top of the 2.3T.

     

    Reason being: The CBO doesn't ever forecast any recessions in its 10 year forecasts. Why? Well, because no economists have ever been able, with certainty, to forecast recessions therefore the CBO just assumes no recessions ever.

     

    One recession in the next decade will destroy the CBO projections.
    18 Mar 2011, 09:59 PM Reply Like
  • Jackson999
    , contributor
    Comments (468) | Send Message
     
    Speaking of being optimistic:
    ---------
    CalPERS Board Refuses To Lower Investment Forecast, Insists Pension Fund Will Make 7.75% Per Year
    Grace Wyler | Mar. 17, 2011, 2:50 PM

     

    www.businessinsider.co...
    18 Mar 2011, 11:35 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    I cannot remember when Washington ever over-estimated the deficit so we should not be surprised. At the same time we cannot trust the people who are spending other peoples' money to give the other people an accurate forecast of what they are spending. Why should they? It is too much fun and too easy to keep writing up more spending bills. These numbers are massaged as much as the inflation and growth numbers. And spending more dollars gets votes.

     

    So we have $14 plus trillion in debt racked up at the Federal level, we have someplace between $50 and $100 Trillion in unfunded benefits at the Federal level and our economy is struggling with high energy costs and creation of new jobs. Although WDC wants to build more roads and high speed rail which nobody is asking for which is another topic and they cannot figure our an energy strategy for their life. And we have not even touched the debt and unfunded benefits at the state and local level.

     

    Inflation is looking like the only way out of this mess without just going into default.

     

    Our political system is broken, public official ethics are broken and we are broke and our standard of living is going down.
    19 Mar 2011, 01:04 AM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (9441) | Send Message
     
    I guess Rand Paul will come clean with the 58% of over 65 Kentuckians that voted for him too???
    19 Mar 2011, 04:29 AM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    Debt?

     

    What?

     

    I can't hear you over the jackhammers building that bridge to my Unicorn Ranch in the clouds.

     

    I'm getting a 50% pay raise next year and every year after that for five years.

     

    Where are my sunglasses - the future is so bright - and the rose tint in them so wonderful...
    19 Mar 2011, 05:45 AM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    Obamas blatant misrepresentation of our federal deficit is as clear a sign as one needs as proof that he "simply cant be trusted"

     

    The obvious disdain for Obama is no longer just a phenomenon of the traditional center right as more and more from the left for different reasons join the ranks of the disenchanted, we can only hope that come 2012 the electorates short term memory doesn't fail it, where as Obama has already begun to govern in anticipation that it has and will.

     

    Fool me once same on you fool me twice shame on me
    19 Mar 2011, 07:59 AM Reply Like
  • BlueOkie
    , contributor
    Comments (4708) | Send Message
     
    The Republican strategy is a CRA reducing the deficit by $2B every week. Just passed CR for three weeks means another $6B reduction. It is slow and painfull but remember the Dem had both houses of Congress and failed to pass a budget starting Oct of 2010 (last year). Once we get thru 2011 budget if we ever do, then another fight for 2012 before 1 Oct. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense must be cut.
    19 Mar 2011, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • Bozerdog
    , contributor
    Comments (464) | Send Message
     
    Wanna fix the budget?

     

    Pull out of Iraq or raise taxes to support the war.

     

    Let is be clear the grand deficit we are sitting on is not because of public education or the evil epa. It is unfunded wars overseas. Every single minute the Iraq war costs $186,000, every minute. That money could be spent on lets say...
    21,510,598 full four-year scholarships to public universities
    7,689,734 new public school teachers

     

    Instead our answer is to cut these programs, is it not obvious what we should be cutting?
    19 Mar 2011, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    Bozer- The liberal socialist agenda thrives under the guise of
    moral appropriation but most often ends up wasteful, abused, counter productive and eventually a third rail entitlement that further exacerbates our financial burdens
    19 Mar 2011, 10:37 AM Reply Like
  • Good Captain
    , contributor
    Comments (455) | Send Message
     
    Taking your comment literally Bozerdog, wouldn't we still have a multi-trillion $ deficit? Instead of "war spending", it appears as though you'd just shift the focus of the budget. Taxes are unlikely to comprise a significant solution as a $10 trillion tax would likely be of short duration due to the demise of those voting for the tax.
    19 Mar 2011, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Detroit
    , contributor
    Comments (92) | Send Message
     
    Bozerdog- Choosing between foreign policy and domestic policy is like choosing whether to breath or to eat! Both areas are necessary and are not interchangable. Your lack of logic is appalling, and so sadly typical of liberal thinking!

     

    More importantly, the war may be expensive, but the expense is nearly trivial compared to the rest of the budget. Maybe a remedial arithmetic class is in order?
    20 Mar 2011, 08:23 AM Reply Like
  • Bozerdog
    , contributor
    Comments (464) | Send Message
     
    "The war is trivial compated to the rest of the budget"

     

    20% of our fed taxes go to "defense". When is the last time you felt threatened?

     

    My mother paid taxes for 46 years of her working life. She earned her social security and medicaid...and her spending during her final years goes back into the economy. Now what are any of her children and grand children to gain from the war in Iraq? Especially since we are borrowing money to pay for the war, and when it ends we will pay interest on it.

     

    Please tell me how my logic is flawed?

     

    How is 20% of the budget trivial remedial boy?

     

    I can sum up your answer to my comments...Drill more, lower taxes, relax regulation.
    20 Mar 2011, 07:59 PM Reply Like
  • Dan Detroit
    , contributor
    Comments (92) | Send Message
     
    Bozer- The Federal Budget was $3,552B in 2010.
    The Iraq war cost $709B over 8 years, according to CBO. That is an average of $88.6B a year, or 2.5% of the '10 budget.

     

    The Afghanistan war has cost about half of the Iraq fiqure, though has been estimated as high as $117B last year, or 3.3%.

     

    Maybe "trivial" exaggerates, but not by as much as you imply.

     

    Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than all of the wars combined and was all added to the deficit just last year!
    21 Mar 2011, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Dan Detroit,

     

    But Obama will deem money spent on stimulus as better return on Capital.

     

    Because unlike stimulus, war does not buy as many votes from special interest groups.
    21 Mar 2011, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Most wars are unfunded because nobody plans out a war in 2 years against another country as a matter of fiscal policy. Yes they are a real problem and I am not sure why Iraq is not paying for at least some of our expenses. Obviously we don't know how to negotiate.

     

    At a high level war debts are just another flavor of the debt we are issuing for massive government spending. In aggregate we are overleveraged at every level so cuts need to be made in a lot of places and entitlements will need to be addressed. At least we could do means testing and quit sending Warren Buffet social security checks.

     

    Education is on the radar because they stuck their head up in a bad economy and insisted they are special and it is not obvious that more money has been solving education problems in the US as other countries turn out better engineers than we do on a lot less money. And our teachers want to be compensated very high in spite of the fact that they teach the same people the same thing every year. Not all the fault of the teachers but they are not professors doing research and driving innovation so their expectations are way out of touch with the value they bring for only 9 months each year.
    19 Mar 2011, 10:40 AM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    TVP- "Obviously we don't know how to negotiate."

     

    I dont believe any country defeated or defended by America has ever paid us back directly for its intervention, but most have become our political and economic allies which benefits all, if we demand direct payment then we become nothing more then mercenaries who will have few friends but many enemies.

     

    "At least we could do means testing and quit sending Warren Buffet social security checks"

     

    Not unreasonable though politically dangerous for both political parties, so stalemate

     

    "And our teachers want to be compensated very high in spite of the fact that they teach the same people the same thing every year."

     

    And not very well I may add. Teachers know very well what they signed up for but hope that collective bargaining will give them the advantage and a better financial future. Unions wont allow individual financial appreciation because it would undermine the unions reasoning for its existence, so mediocrity reigns supreme
    19 Mar 2011, 11:12 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    enigmaman

     

    Kuwait and Saudi Arabia paid us a chunk of money for the first Gulf War.

     

    Our parties are breaking us because it is "politically dangerous" to do anything. We will not need parties when we are completely broke and speaking to creditors about what we need to do to compensate them. Obviously we will try to inflate our way out first because at least you maintain your own sovreignty but all of this spending is totally irresponsible.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    TVP- Would appreciate a link to establish this fact, Im not saying its not so but all I could find on this matter was an article posted by
    1 muslimnation, basically it was talking about the additional revenue generated by the increase of oil during the1st gulf war that was split between USA and Kuwait and Saudia Arabia, insinuating that a deal was struck before hand.

     

    Inflation appears our only way out of this, but it will be at the expense of our standard of living, especially the shrinking middle class, both parties will point blame at the other when in fact neither did anything politically dangerous to make any difference.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:44 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    enigmaman,

     

    Here you go.

     

    I thought everybody knew about this by now

     

    Obviously this is old news.

     

    www.nytimes.com/1991/1...

     

    people.psych.cornell.edu///~fhoran/gulf/GW_cos...

     

    Sorry, second link not working. I will try to provide update

     

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    19 Mar 2011, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Enigmaman,

     

    The Persian Gulf War Cost each US citizen only $26.92 cents each.

     

    Not a very big component of the US per capital national debt.

     

    My P-O-S state has the dubious distinction of having the highest per capital debt in the nation.

     

    For me, one has add that to the Federal Tab.

     

    But, I don't recall it being as a result of wars.

     

    It is the result of using the money from future generations to buy votes from special interests today.

     

    Sorry to disappoint those that like to just blame deficits and Debt
    on Wars.

     

    www.poetpatriot.com/ti...
    19 Mar 2011, 05:51 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Enigmaman,

     

    Were were reimbursed of the costs of the Persian Gulf War by the rest of the word by 88% of the costs.

     

    Leaving roughly $27 cost per citizen.

     

    A bit less than the $4800 per person instate debt for my garbage state of Connecticut that I failed to mention in my previous post.
    I don't remember them fighting any wars either.
    Perhaps only against business, as the state is very hostile to business.

     

    www.poetpatriot.com/ti...
    19 Mar 2011, 07:09 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    So countries should pay US to be invaded and have their infrastructure and societes destroyed ? I'm surprised you don't support slavery either, it would fit right into your worldview.

     

    Actually I prefer Lao and Burmese to Thai, Thais are way too lazy and willing to acquiese to an invader. In Burma you would get a real lesson how the world works.
    21 Mar 2011, 11:51 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    Your dialogue really is becoming childish and is bird bath deep.

     

    These countries like Iraq are countries in name only. They are really dictatorships with brutal rulers who rape and plunder their people and give them no hope and occasionally gas a bunch of them to keep them under their boot. Then they threaten their neighbors, blame all their problems on the US and for good measure threaten the US. Since their people are unarmed and beaten into the ground we eventually get fed up with these tin horn dictators and we take them out because they are small time bullies. Apparently since you live in Thailand you must like the periodic military ruler but if you want the full effect move to Libya or turn back the clock and live under Sadaam.

     

    There are a lot of mouthy people like you who do absolutely nothing but second guess world events as they unfold and believe you stand on the high ground and can speak for everyone. That is incredibly narrow minded and shows a lack of depth and understanding.

     

    If the US does nothing then we are accused of racism because we don't help Arabs or other non-western groups who are living under lousy abusive governments. If we do something then we are colonialist. I could care less because people in the stands like you don't get anything done and millions of people die because of it and have no hope.

     

    Our problem in the US is that we cannot afford to save everyone and my view is that countries need to help us pay for the cost of their restructuring because there is so many of them. If they don't want to invest in it then they really prefer the latest dictator and they are not ready for change and don't want to own the change.

     

    It is a little unbecoming to trash Thailand when you say you would rather live there than the US and if they don't want to work hard that is their choice and not for you to judge. Calling them lazy is an insult but I guess you don't get along with them either. And God bless Burma but frankly they don't make much impact on how the world works.

     

    You need a bitterness lobotomy.
    21 Mar 2011, 08:07 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    US can't even afford to save itself and its own restructuring, forget about interferring in other countries. The rest of the world is none of your business, so please move your military back home where they belong.The way the US turned Pattaya into a giant brothel during Vietnam is a crime against humanity, and I do blame the Thais for allowing it to happen.

     

    US has the worst roads, schools, hospitals, airports I have ever seen, as well as the most arrogant neo-imperialistic attitude, trying to steal back what it has lost through its own stupidity.

     

    Now, you have to pay the world price like everybody else.

     

    Once US was a great place, where if the Govt screwed up, people would raise their voices and stop the elites from starting wars and extorting wealth from the middle classes. Now its just another fake democracy (oligarchy) run by greedy arrogant elites who get away with stealing whatever they want.

     

    I can live somewhere and criticize the place at the same time, these concepts/opinions are not mutually exclusive, although maybe not permitted/ or wanted in an oligarchy of the simple-minded. Try wrapping your brain around that concept.

     

    Funny thing is none of this matters one bit, fate will take its course anyway, yet the obvious arrogance of the US will not get you far in life or in the next
    21 Mar 2011, 08:47 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    FXmavenRetard,

     

    "US has the worst roads, schools, hospitals, airports I have ever seen, as well as the most arrogant neo-imperialistic attitude, trying to steal back what it has lost through its own stupidity."

     

    But, we need to put up a fence to keep all the people like you that hate us, out of here.

     

    GO AWAY!
    21 Mar 2011, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    It appears you are really jealous, bitter and uninformed which is a bad combination. Your individual arrogance is off the charts as you really think you have the correct view of the world from your little perch in Thailand and you hope that we have not been to Asia or these other countries to refute your stupid statements.

     

    I have been to many countries around the world including right there in Asia and their schools, roads, hospital and airports are all well below US standards with an occassional shining star. People travel to America for school and healthcare not the reverse. Our schools have produced more ground breaking research than anywhere in the world across all industries. We give a lot away and also have countries trying to steal if from us. I know a lot of Asians and they want to be here for an education and live here and raise a family. They don't want to be somebody's servant in Asia sweeping floors and driving their kids to school.

     

    If we charged the world for pharmaceuticals what Americans are charged it would bury most countries so you don't know what you are talking about with respect to prices. We have more roads in individual states than many countries have in total. The roads in some of the Asian countries are terrrible. China is spending like crazy but if you leave the big cities their roads turn into an ordeal.

     

    America has always been a great place but if the bar is raised to perfection then there is only room left for disillusionment. We have done a lot of good in the world and been a shining light for a lot of people who moved here and for countries that have copied some of the things that have made us successful. That is a great but silent endorsement that refutes your views to emotional rants.

     

    Go get an education and quit writing this garbage with no facts.
    21 Mar 2011, 09:35 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    I have a masters degree in finance from IMD (Lausanne) so no need for futher education. I'm sure you've heard of it, its not too bad as Unis go.

     

    America does have decent tertiary education, yet it is unaffordable and inaccessable for the masses, and now Asians take the education and run. Health Care is also a gigantic rip off in the US, with doctors living in mansions, driving mercedes, offering mediocre care. Yet the passive brainwashed masses haven't figured it out yet.

     

    Bangkok, Hong Kong and Shanghai have far better transportation than any American city. And I would rather drive my motorcycle anywhere in Laos than on any boring tarmac road littered with stupid gaz guzzling Jeeps in the US.

     

    You actually make some fair points, but you describe the US as it used to be. This is gone forever. You should at least try to see the other side, rather than accept the reality of the decline in the US, and the transformation of the US into an oligarchic, corrupt system where elites are above the law, as it is in most of the world. Turns out US and emerging markets are becoming the same, but more along the lines of the 4.7 billion people in EMs compared to the 300m in US.

     

    The Buddha will not also look kindly on your ad hominim attacks, you may be reborn as a flea, dung beetle or mosquito in your next life .
    21 Mar 2011, 09:56 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fx

     

    One degree is a bit limited for perspective. Hate to burst your bubble.

     

    I am not sure how Asians afford our education as they have lower incomes than US citizens so it is incongruent to say that Americans cannot afford it but Asians can.

     

    Healthcare is more complex than the headlines would lead you to believe. Americans subsidize the healthcare of the rest of the world as we carry the full cost of R&D while other countries do not. That is a lot of people to carry. In addition we carry our own fools who do not have health insurance or in the event they are just down on their luck we carry them too. Then to boot we carry illegal aliens' healthcare as they show up in our emergency rooms and pass their costs on to the rest of us. And we still have Canadians crossing the border to get health care which is surprising since they are the supposed model and other people flying in when they really need experts. Not sure how our doctors are mediocre when people are flying in to visit them. If we priced our healthcare correctly the rest of the world would be paying a lot more.

     

    If you want to compare transportation of a few select cities then sure you can pick out the jewels but on average American cities have better transportation and I have been in more nasty traffic in Asia with dirt, smoke, grime and filth than anyplace in the world. It is also difficult to compare as we are so spread out and a lot of the small motorbikes used in Asia would be too dangerous in the US as the traffic moves too fast.

     

    You don't know US history very well as we have went through very dark periods before with all kinds of problems. That does not mean we will automatically come out of this financial crunch with flying colors but we will do OK. Our fall has been predicted for close to 250 years now which has been a losing bet.

     

    Buddha does not bug me at all.
    21 Mar 2011, 11:28 PM Reply Like
  • HA65MPH
    , contributor
    Comments (1366) | Send Message
     
    FXMAVEN , ...You are a Giant human ' .FISTULA ...
    21 Mar 2011, 11:39 PM Reply Like
  • inthemoney
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    It is pretty funny to read all the americans getting mad at fxmaven when in fact what she says is the view of the US commonly held by most europeans and many asians. They just keep it to themselves. Why fight american sense of superiority? There is no gain in telling the truth.
    22 Mar 2011, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    To complete your Masters you need an regular degree as well, you should know that. Mine was applied mathematics.
    22 Mar 2011, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    InTheMoney.

     

    Constructive criticism is one thing.

     

    Comments escalated well beyond that category over time.
    (see one of my posts)

     

    Ratings of comments tell the story. PERIOD

     

    Please don't make excuses for despicable behavior.
    22 Mar 2011, 01:46 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fx

     

    Know it well. It surprises me with all your quant background you don't have better empirical evidence to back up your statements. As we say here in the US "numbers talk bull walks."
    22 Mar 2011, 06:01 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (3620) | Send Message
     
    "The U.S. tried to steal the oil, but they failed."

     

    That about sums up fxmaven. Makes silly claims with no supporting evidence.
    22 Mar 2011, 08:53 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    you never answered my very direct question, why you invaded Iraq.

     

    maybe you just wanted to throw away a trillion dollars, and make Iran more powerful.

     

    well then job well done
    22 Mar 2011, 10:30 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    just look at at usd/eur chart for the proof, although maybe i am being too naive assuming that you can look it up yourself.
    22 Mar 2011, 10:32 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (3620) | Send Message
     
    I, of course, did not invade Iraq. Those who were in (elected) power at the time believed it was to eliminate WMD's. Did I think Iraq had WMD's? Nah, not really. The government did, so that's that. The government does a lot of things I disagree with...

     

    You said the goal was to 'steal the oil'. You never explained how that works.... Did the U.S. have black ops tankers sitting off the coast waiting to load up? Maybe the CIA was directing a secret program to build a covert pipeline right to Cushing, right?

     

    So, was it 'stealing' oil, throwing away money, or empowering those nutjobs in Iran that made us commit to Iraq? Pick one, but at least offer something to back it up with.
    22 Mar 2011, 10:41 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    US would have forced or pressured new govt to give contracts to US companies, just like they have been doing for years. A very thin veil of legitimacy, try looking that word up.

     

    Amis are just stupid hillbillies, plain and simple. Anyway your time as an Empire is over.
    22 Mar 2011, 10:48 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    And, everyone knew there were no WMD's. It was just a big lie, like the entire US society. You were just dumb enough to believe it.

     

    Amis are too scared/weak to face an enemy with WMD's, that's why you will never challenge Iran.
    22 Mar 2011, 10:50 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (3620) | Send Message
     
    le·git·i·ma·cy (noun) - A thing that fxmaven does not have.

     

    Americans are just dumb hillbillies - got it.

     

    Here - I'll play your game.... Thai food sucks, and Thais are just a bunch of dumbasses that eat dogs.

     

    I don't like your game - feels like tossing around opinionated and / or baseless claims just to denigrate an entire nation of people.

     

    I'm perfectly happy to be a dumb hillbilly as opposed to a bitter, bigoted, angry ex-pat who is hanging out in some Bangkok opium den spewing anti-american venom on Seeking Alpha.
    22 Mar 2011, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Fxmaven, why did you invade Iraq?
    23 Mar 2011, 09:08 AM Reply Like
  • Trever99
    , contributor
    Comments (105) | Send Message
     
    Your comment on US R&D is no longer applicable. American drug companies spend substantially more on advertising than they do R&D. They came to the profitable conclusion that it's better to treat than cure.. Treating requires alot less R&D.

     

    And she is also correct on health care costs in the US. The exact same drugs in the rest of the world are a fraction of the cost they are in the US. Its because in countries with socialized medicine there is more purchasing power. If Canada decides a drug is too expensive.. it doesn't get sold. As simple as that. The drug companies buckle and the prices go down.
    25 Mar 2011, 11:29 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Trever,

     

    The reason that drugs are cheaper outside the U.S. is because other countries don't respect property rights the same as the U.S. and allow competition from generic makers much sooner.

     

    If Canada decides a drug is too expensive, patients suffer. It's as simple as that.
    26 Mar 2011, 08:00 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Trever99:

     

    You are looking for numbers to support your already foregone conclusion that US companies are bad and advertising is only an extra expense that they love to spend money on. Which if you think about is really something that hurts their shareholder return. So here is the real story.

     

    ALL drug companies, including non-US companies, spend a ton of money on SG&A which includes sales and advertising. And it is typically ALWAYS more than R&D. So apparently according to you all drug companies have concluded "that it's better to treat than cure." That would include Swiss, German, French and UK companies.

     

    The US has about 50% of the top pharmaceutical companies in the world which means we are roughly carrying 50% of the R&D in the world. The balance is the already mentioned European countries. All of these companies have SG&A and R&D ratios that are in a similair range and do fluctuate based on drugs in the pipeline and drugs in the market.

     

    US consumers do pay more because other countries either cannot afford the drug or their government leverages lower prices. In the latter case we are carrying people that should pay the same as US citizens. And as pointed out by market student in another comment property rights are abused and some people just suffer so the government can say they did not pay too much. Welcome to rationed health care.

     

    US consumers are carrying alot of the world on their back.
    26 Mar 2011, 10:47 AM Reply Like
  • svz3029
    , contributor
    Comments (21) | Send Message
     
    @Bozerdog- very true. Even the true blue deficit hawks ignore two extremely effective ways of lowering the deficit- raising taxes and ending unnecessary wars. In fact we just cut taxes.

     

    But political posturing has no place on this forum. The real question is: how will the market respond come monday? Those fearing a weakened dollar as a result of this increased debt might pile into equities or commodities. Or, investors might panic and sell into the sell-off we're currently in. Where's that crystal ball I had?
    19 Mar 2011, 10:41 AM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    svc3029 & Bozerdog,

     

    All the wars we ever fought combined, represent a small fraction of the current national Debt.

     

    And that does not even take into account the economic growth during the Clinton years that would likely not have taken place without the results and outcome of Gulf War 1.

     

    Weather you believe in any particular war, one should not ignore the return on investment that some may bring.

     

    Are you saying we should not have fought WW2 just to save a couple bucks?

     

    I would guess the average american's living standard was considerably elevated as a result of the outcome.

     

    Not saying wars don't matter, but not as much as many would like to portray in order to futher their political agenda.

     

    poetpatriot.com/ti...
    19 Mar 2011, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • Econdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (2944) | Send Message
     
    You want me to pay more tax?

     

    I already pay over $100k per year. Not enough for you? So much for me winning the war on the lower income group.

     

    Sure. I make a lot of money. Actually I don't make it - I actually don't even work - I just get it gifted to me. That's what you want to believe so fine I will go along with that. The guy making $40k per year - he really works - me I'm in easy street. Just don't try to reach me between 8am and 9pm on weekdays - I am working my cushy 70 hours/week job and coasting all the way to the bank.

     

    Is is equitable that so many pay no income tax at all? Where is the equity in that? Are they not using services? Am I the only one who uses the roads? Or get's the benefit of the US military?

     

    And while we are talking taxes - why tax dividends at all - hasn't that income already been taxed at the company level. Leave them alone. Increase incentives to invest in productive assets

     

    Capital gains is another - why is my house exempted but stocks are not. Why? Increase incentives to invest in productive assets

     

    Get rid of the mortgage tax deduction. Reduce incentives to invest in non-productive assets. Why does the Government want me to own a house? Why?

     

    Why not tax consumption and activity especially stuff you want to influence. Does it make sense to you that the US sends over $30 billion of its currency overseas every month for a product that is burned on the highways? Why not effect a gas tax - $1/gallon - that will do more to change the landscape that the ridiculous green subsidies and other distortions. It will also reduce the deficit in a very direct sense.

     

    The solution is in 3 stages.

     

    Stage 1. The US must run deficits short term to maintain escape velocity. This is important. Growth is key. There must be growth.

     

    Stage 2. Get rid of the distortions and subsidies noted above. Just do it. Income taxes are high enough. Consumption taxes are too low. Eliminate distortions that push you away from productive investment toward non-productive investment. Get rid of corporate and farm subsidies. Why subsidize ethanol? It is a lousy fuel and is actually creating food inflation. Get rid of this.

     

    Stage 3. Reform entitlements. The real US deficit story is post 2015 that is where the rubber hits the road. Raise the SS retirement age - I would push it to 72 - for all - men and women. Why is it different? Especially when Women live longer. Implement a means test. Implement a Medicare means test. Limit the coverage to catastrophic and basic only. Medicare should be bare bones - not carte blanche. If you want Viagra - pay for it. As a Medical Doctor - believe me I know how abused this program is by all and sundry.

     

    All of requires political backbone and will. Obama has neither. After promising so much he is an utter failure as a Chief Executive and Leader. He was and remains a terrible mistake. He needs to go back the Senate where inaction and vacillation are a career strategy.

     

    E
    19 Mar 2011, 11:43 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Econodoc -there will be no growth, US has too much debt and a still overvalued currency. It's Japan all over again, without the technology or manufacturing capability.

     

    The only way out is discharging the debt through a massive Argentina-esque restructuring, both for Japan and US. I wouldn't lend the US Govt a dime, unless taxes are raised and spending slashed.

     

    Americans want their wars and benefits, now its time to pay for them, with interest.
    19 Mar 2011, 12:37 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Econdoc

     

    Agree with a lot of what you say except the following:

     

    1. I don't believe we can wait until 2015 to reform entitlements and the longer we wait the more we have to cut them. And it is looking pretty bad now. And some jobs people cannot work until they are 70 so the idea of raising the age is good but not that easy for all career types to handle.
    2. Running deficits is not a good idea if it is more stupid spending like in the past with building roads when gas is $3.50 a gallon as that is just a bigger burden with little return. We don't have the talent in DC to know how to work with corporate America to make that money turn into jobs. And we lack the talent to know how housing immobility is causing jobs to go unfilled. We may also have structural unemployment which is not just business cycle related and which is a very deep problem and takes more analysis and better remediation then the helicopter fiscal policy we have seen thus far.

     

    Viagara was one of the big drugs that GM employees were using before GM went into bankruptcy. The amount of money spent was reported as $17 million per year.

     

    Voters need to remain active in demanding action to get us on a better path and punish both parties for inaction or we will all suffer.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12962) | Send Message
     
    The problem with consumption taxes is three-fold:

     

    1) One they're merely a scam to raise more tax revenues in a new way (seekingalpha.com/symbo...) because the Government knows that with income taxes always in the spotlight and sales taxes ready to burst into double digits, they'll get a revolt if they cross the double-digit line. So, the clever plan is to add a new "layer" of taxes, as a separate line item, so one's sales tax remains 8.5% or 9.5% (not that dreaded revolt-producing double digit) and they can add a new VAT line item of 1%, 2%, 3%, etc. (quickly growing, of course), and even better, they'll probably figure out a way for that to be collected from manufacturers, wholesalers or distributors, so it doesn't stare consumers in the face on their sales receipts.

     

    2) Any and all added taxation utterly never --repeat, never-- reduces deficits because it's the lifeblood of politicians, who not only spend all the new imagined largesse before it even arrives; they leverage those imagined new tax windfalls 2-3 times, to that deficits expand at an even more rapid rate.

     

    3) Consumption taxes are both regressive and massively deflationary. If economies run on monetary velocity, and they do, then, the very last thing you want is to provide disincentives to spending and incentives to hoard money. If folks start to perceive that the incremental cost of buying that new car, widget or whatever has a 15%, 20%, or more, penalty associated with it, the they might just decide they can do without it. This benefits precisely nobody because when things aren't in demand, they don't need to be made, and people don't need to be employed, and taxes aren't collected, and so on, ad nauseum.

     

    As capricious as our current taxation system seems to be, taxes on income --especially taxes on salaried income that are withheld-- do not affect people's psychology about spending. For the average wage earner, that money that was withheld is money he never had and doesn't even think about. Nobody sits around counting their "gross income," just their "net." If one wishes to get that net income back into circulation quickly, the last thing one wants is to build big taxation walls between the buyers and the goods.

     

    In the end, it's always the same issue. One must allow funds to move freely and unfettered in the private sector and one must limit wasteful, non-productive Government initiatives, which add nothing or real value to economies and are directly almost exclusively to employment in vote pandering to keep office holders and their sycophants employed and in office. The only way to achieve this objective is to reduce and cap taxation, not reinvent it in some new formula, designed only to add to the coffers under a new guise.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:28 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    People like you keep railing against government, yet it grows bigger and bigger every year, deficits get bigger, and everyone acts like this is sustainable.

     

    Either get your fiscal house in order or go bankrupt while USD continues to plummet, even though it is still severely overvalued and Americans are overcompensated by 10X compared to comparable Asian goods and Services.

     

    Sales taxes instead of income/investment taxes would be the smartest thing possible, forcing the rich to pay taxes, and forcing the federal govt to balance the budget (actually you need a surplus to pay down debt).TPTB have cleverly promoted a deficit spending based fraudulent benefit system. A VAT would promote investment, not pointless spending on imported goods that really only benefits Asia.

     

    Obviously the neocon agenda has failed in every possible way, your pathetic justification for such egregious failures is laughable.

     

    G.H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton raised taxes, cut spending, and the US economy boomed.Americans are bloody mentally handicapped not to understand their own bloody economic history, only repeating the neocon drivel created by AEI and then repeated endlessly and pointlessly by FOX.

     

    Next thing you will claim that Iraq and Afghanistan are successes. Looking forward to that.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    I agree with most of what you say.

     

    We need to get rid of insurance altogether.

     

    If the people in government had any brains or balls they would not have bailed out the banks but paid out a lump sum of what was owed to every citizen who ever put into SS - then end the lie and let the chips fall.

     

    Tata motors probably would have bought out what was left of GM, Hyundai might have picked up Chrysler, Canadian banks would have picked up WaMu and the other sick whelps. Imagine! Allowing free markets to operate and capitalism to function! Alas, much too late for that.

     

    There is no fix other than utter collapse. We have spent over 100 years pitching and yawing back and forth between capitalism and socialism, consequences and enabling, liberty and slavery, that we now have the worst of both worlds and to end either side would collapse the whole system anyways.

     

    In the meantime, we are all hamsters on the wheel, squeeking and sweating while maintaining the dysfunctional machine of the Kleptoligarchy.
    19 Mar 2011, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    why do you think i moved to southern thailand?
    19 Mar 2011, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7699) | Send Message
     
    Tack; Re the VAT
    The payer, you and me, never see the tax because its burried in the cost of whatever we buy. Its like our electric or phone bill, they are loaded with taxes but the tax is not broken out as a seperate line item. Once put in place the bastards in Washington can raise ot again and again and the "masses" won't see it. They'll all blame the manufacturer for raising the price.
    At least sales tax is a seperate line item.
    Good points made.....................
    19 Mar 2011, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    The alternative to legal bankruptcy is financial inflation thereby reducing the debt through value reduction.

     

    We know our economic history pretty well so if your only reference is "neocon" which is a divisive political term more than a history term then you are not going back very far.

     

    If raising taxes solves all problems then let's raise them to the moon. The arguement here in the US is how much of each dollar should our government bodies consume? Some apparently think it should exceed 50%. The second arguement is why should anyone work if the government is happy to just hand out money for not working? Almost 50% of our population does not pay Federal tax which means a lot of them are happy with the government dole. Which of course they take from people who are working.

     

    Obama just shot 100 missles into Libya today so I guess he does not believe in paying for wars either.

     

    All this political nonsense just obscures the real conversation that needs to take place. Any country can have a great economy if they get their act together but the converse is also true.
    19 Mar 2011, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Inflation is simply a stealth tax, and people are sophisticated enough to understand the effects.No sane investor will lend money at negative interest rates, hence the requirement that the Fed monetize the debt. Barry Ritholz has a great chart out showing the purchasers of federal debt, the last and only buyer is the Fed.

     

    www.ritholtz.com/blog/.../

     

    The US is trapped in a debt cycle which can only be solved by spending less/higher income (taxes). Inflation only impoverishes the country and screws investors dumb enough to be long Treasuries. Neither is easy, but only one method has ever worked....
    19 Mar 2011, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    Yes inflation is a stealth tax but people are not protesting now or looking in the right direction to understand how it has been taking off and we have already been driving inflation for well over a year with various stupid government activities.

     

    Anyone buying Treasury Securities right now is borrowing at negative rates or close to it. The Fed may be the last party but they are still not the only party buying Treasuries so obviously there are a lot of insane people.

     

    Both taxes and inflation impoverish a country. Especially when the taxes are only used to service debt. And in a country where the leverage is already high inflation may be the best alternative because taxes may create serious deflation and a massive depression. Then we move to bankruptcy if that happens.
    20 Mar 2011, 10:04 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    USA has a choice between weimar style hyperinflation or argentine debt restructuring, one is an orderly process (the latter in my opinion), the former usually leads to some kind of instability/conflict.

     

    Hey, its your problem, not mine.
    20 Mar 2011, 10:12 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    So why do you kept adding more debt/deficit spending when it only makes everything worse? (and better for Asia/ME).

     

    You may know your economic history (which i doubt) but its pointless if you keep making the same mistakes for centuries, especially this misguided belief in deregulated markets that brought you a banking and energy crisis (which has just been papered over and lurks in the shadows, ready to reappear).

     

    And yes, in any normal country the "neocons" would be shamed by their complete failure and would have disappeared into political oblivion long, long ago, like the stalinists or khmer rouge..
    20 Mar 2011, 10:17 AM Reply Like
  • Good Captain
    , contributor
    Comments (455) | Send Message
     
    I am curious about your use of the term "neocon" w/in this economic context?
    20 Mar 2011, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Who do you think created the huge federal deficits,distorted corporate subsidies, and deregulated the financial/energy/labor markets bringing the system to near collapse?

     

    Neocons have done more damage to western economies than Mao, Al Qaeda and Stalin combined.
    20 Mar 2011, 10:30 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    If this is our problem and not yours I am not sure why we are wasting our time educating you.

     

    Having said that, and for everyone elses' sake, choosing between hyperinflation and debt restructuring is a false choice. There are a lot of inflation numbers between zero and the rate of inflation experienced by Germany post WWI. For example inflation running at 8% a year for 3 years lowers the value of the debt in a material way.
    20 Mar 2011, 03:22 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    I do know my economic history and obviously you don't since you believe we have made the same mistakes for centuries. Do some research on the history of the US and what our government spending has been over the past 2.5 centuries along with our regulatory structure. Our government has become far more invasive over the past 250 years than ever.

     

    And although our free market economic system has its faults and imbalances at times it sure looks better than all the command and control economies out there in the world. All the failed economies have been emulating the US to one degree or another. Notably China and Russia had to abandon their centralized economies before people starved to death or revolted. I travel a lot internationnaly and our poor live like kings relative to the poor in other countries.

     

    At the core of our housing crisis which really caused our last economic recession was a government that believed with good intention that everyone should own a home and was willing to overlook poor credit underwriting practies.

     

    Tieing unregulated markets to the energy crisis is hilarious. That is a very regulated market domestically and is really led by a cartel, OPEC.

     

    Your fascination with neocons is just noise and makes no difference to the current discussion
    20 Mar 2011, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    This is so absurd, as the American assets and income are declining at an equal or faster rate than inflation, so the net worth of USA, even net of inflated debt, priced in USD, still goes down.

     

    You can choose any inflation number you like, yet any economy with negative real interest rates steals from creditors to reward profligate debtors who should be restructured or foreclosed upon.
    Priced in EUR, CHF, Gold or Oil, US net worth is down tremendously, so clearly inflation is not a successful economic strategy.

     

    At no time in history has inflation been anything but a means to steal from creditors and taxpayers, the last tactic of a declining debtor. And USA is so pathetic just to deny the inflation exists, rather than attempting any kind of productive economic policy, which has destroyed any credibility of the Fed or Federal Govt.

     

    so you enjoy the deflation in assets and inflation in costs (including taxes) which reduces your net real income (purchasing power) and net worth. Clearly somebody needs an education in real monetary economics, and it's not me.

     

    I won't hold usd (except for commodities nominally priced in usd), nor will lend you money at negative rates. that's why my equity/bond portfolio in EUR, AUD and CAD appreciates, and the Dow/USTs/USD in real terms is down tremendously. Check any Dow chart priced in Oil, Euro or Gold and the conclusion is obvious, what is going down and what is going up.

     

    20 Mar 2011, 03:49 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    Thanks for the rant. It seems to me that when the logic of your statements are questioned you want to argue something different and mix in a few well known economic axioms to give yourself credibility.

     

    Having said that if you have problems with some of the inflation discussion and tricks being played by the US government here in the US well so do we. You have not discovered anything new.

     

    If you can find a currency that has not declined against oil, gold and silver then let us know. And the rise of these commodities is not just about inflation but aggregate demand shifts in the world as China and India come online with much higher energy demand. The price of oil will likely continue to increase as their demand is just getting started. I assume you know this already from your comments as being so well informed which means you would never confuse demand shifts with inflation.

     

    Telling us that there are better places than the US is also not something new. Look all over SeekingAlpha and see the conversations around Canadian Royalty Trusts.

     

    I would not count on the US raising taxes much as people here only believe in taxes for someone else which is why the Fed finds it easier to print money. And corporations in Asia with little tax obligations compete with US corporations with heavier tax burdens which means the pressure here in the US is to cut corporate taxes and pull all the jobs back to the US. Not saying it is right but I don't see the US becoming the austerity leader of the world. I see debt becoming devalued and everyone suffering for all this irresponsibility. After all the rest of the world also grew through this same leverage.
    20 Mar 2011, 05:42 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    I hate this Ami obsession with the word "rant". We are fed up with the US causing problems all over the world and then just thinking they can inflate their problems away, screwing their creditors. It's a perfectly legitimate point of view, and I resent the way you try to denegrate my arguments in your sly insulting style by somehow implying they are not warranted or not correct. I guess that's what passes for an informed discussion in the US these days.

     

    Amis just think they rule the world, but they don't anymore. And when the Fed can longer run its Ponzi scheme the real trouble will start, and no-one will come to bail out the US.

     

    I'm just glad that people where I live have some respect for fiscal prudence, positive interest rates, a stable currency, which is pretty good when you view the sorry state of affairs around the globe.
    20 Mar 2011, 06:16 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    BTW the last time I was in NYC sales taxes have been increased 20% ( another form of inflation). This is happening in other states too, as they have to balance their budgets. UK raised VAT, it is a worldwide phenomenon.

     

    The US Federal Govt will eventually have to do the same, or cut entitlements, or provoke weimar-esque inflation through QE 3,4,5.

     

    There is no fantasy 10% inflation per annum escape route without real cuts or real austerity.
    20 Mar 2011, 06:29 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    I think rant fits your frame of mind and discourse quite well.........."we are fed up with the US causing problems all over the world........." You can have any point of view you like but you cannot make up your own facts.

     

    And who is "we?" Apparently you just moved to Southern Thailand and are extremely happy so why all the vitrol?

     

    You really don't have a sense of history. The US has historically never inflated away our problems and thereby screwed over creditors. And in fact our credit issues have been reasonably managed until the last 3 to 4 years.

     

    The flip side of the credit issue is that we took in a lot of money for consumption because a lot of countries found it easier to drive cheap exports and lend us back the proceeds than to develop their own economies. Most of those were centrally planned so look in your own backyard for that source of misery.

     

    And we have been bailing out a lot of countries over the years and worked to make sure their poor did not hit the cesspool while their glorious leaders raked off a lot of foreign aid into Swiss bank accounts. Look all over the world for this sad story and realize this did not help our level of debt.

     

    If you really knew the US like you pretend you would understand we don't care to rule the world and we would prefer to stay home but we get dragged into a lot of miserable situations and areas of the world where people resent us while at the same time they don't want to look in a mirror.

     

    The US is too big to bailout frankly and we will just start over. There will be a lot of complaining but there will be no choice. And it will hurt other countries as well.

     

    I will still take this over Thailand although I think Thailand is beautiful. I like my standard of living a whole lot better than the average Thai.
    20 Mar 2011, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    States by law must balance their budget and they cannot issue their own currency. Our federal government does not have those restrictions and that is where massive debt resides.
    20 Mar 2011, 07:05 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    "If you really knew the US like you pretend you would understand we don't care to rule the world and we would prefer to stay home but we get dragged into a lot of miserable situations and areas of the world where people resent us while at the same time they don't want to look in a mirror"

     

    The US has been essentially occupying the ME through its support of the house of Saud, to provide cheap oil to fund its overconsumption.This, plus Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, hardly counts as "staying at home".

     

    Without this Oil the US standard of living is finished, the rest of the world lives with $8.50 gallon petrol, Amis burst into rage at $3.00 petrol.

     

    My unique contribution is the US will either get its fiscal house in order, or pay market interest rates. In either case the overconsumption, greed and fraud is likely finished, the broad equity and credit markets will correct, and Amis will have to grow up and make tough economic choices like everybody else.
    20 Mar 2011, 07:17 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    ever heard of the CFTC? The deregulation of derivatives has alot to do with the speculative interest and price increases in Oil, which was previously not permitted.

     

    I love the way you gloss over the massive mortgage/CDO/credit card fraud,enabled by free market lunatics, like its a minor issue.

     

    Glad somebody else is paying for the bank bailouts :)
    20 Mar 2011, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    You are proving my point that your historical perspective is pretty limited. Our history goes well beyond the 1960's. We have historically been hesitant to get involved in foreign conflicts. The discussion we often have over here is can we watch while some dictator or rival tribes butcher each other or are we obligated to step in? If we don't do something we have second guessing and if we do something we experience carping anyways which you are doing well.

     

    Saudi Arabia does well enough on its own bribing its people to maintain stability. China is actually their biggest customer so if anyone is interested in Saudi stability it is China.

     

    The rest of the world does not live with $8.50 per gallon of petrol as a number of governments subsidize the price which does not the dampen demand. We in the US consume more petrol per capita as we have a much larger developed economy and it consumes a lot of energy. That is not a comment on whether it is right or wrong that is just where we are at.

     

    Our fiscal house needs to be put in order no doubt about it. The downside goes beyond market rates and into slash and burn austerity, inflation or a combination of both. Right now we are going down the inflation road because our government leaders cannot cut spending in spite of the pressure from a large percentage of the population. This will be an important year so let's see what happens.
    20 Mar 2011, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    fxmaven

     

    I know the CFTC well along with the all the commodity exchanges and various players. The amount of liquidity speculating on all commodities has increased dramatically. One arguement is that liquidity enables better pricing as more players and contracts are written against various underlying commodities. The other arguement is that prices overshoot to the upside and downside so someone should step in and regulate it which is another way of saying set the price. My view is that there is diminishing returns to liquidity so there should be some governor on the volume. That's another debate.

     

    On the bank bailouts we have all the TARP funds back from the banks so the US taxpayer has our money back with only AIG left which is an insurance company.

     

    Correlating fraud and free markets is another false conclusion. No bigger frauds in the world than in command and control economies and the local dictator/military ruler.

     

    Our Federal Government here in the US was right in the middle of the mortgage mess with Fannie and Freddie pushing the home ownership percentage up past the point of credit worthy borrowers. And then everyone in the government and private sector including characters like Warren Buffet state that they could have never seen the housing debacle coming.

     

    Credit card fraud is a rounding error in the big picture. If that was our biggest problem we would be laughing in relief.

     

    The US will not crumble because the private sector is involved in fraud because individually they can only do so much. We will be really hurt by government fraud and abuse.
    20 Mar 2011, 11:35 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1500) | Send Message
     
    Excellent comments from Tack, econdoc and 1980XLS....

     

    Our biggest threat is entitlements....and as1980 said our Defense Budget is low...only 6% of GDP.....
    21 Mar 2011, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    What's this nonsense about the U.S. lacking technology or manufacturing? We lead the world in technology. On a per capita basis we are no. one in manufacturing. 30% of our jobs are in manufacturing and therefore our manufacturing productivity leads the world. China is challenging us for the lead in goods output.
    21 Mar 2011, 02:02 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    VATs penalize consumption, hurting the economy, especially if it is very dependent on consumption. VATs add a lot of administrative overhead. Dumb idea.

     

    The rich don't pay sales taxes if they buy overseas where there are no sales taxes.

     

    Asian labor rates are rising to meet American rates. It'll likely take between 5-10 years for them to equilibrate.

     

    The economy didn't boom in the '90s and 2000's because taxes were raised, but because the housing bubble was being pumped. Housing stimulated the economy during Reagan's era, where there was real demand for housing due to bringing interest rates down to where mortgage payments were affordable and there was no housing bubble.

     

    Spending hasn't been cut since Hoover's time.

     

    Iraq was clearly a success, though Obama may still be able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

     

    You are very confused.
    21 Mar 2011, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    My state is fiscally responsible (no major debt) and yet hasn't raised taxes.

     

    You are correct that inflation may lead to major problems--especially for those on fixed incomes. It may lead to stagflation such as occurred in the '70s.

     

    You are correct that the U.S. needs to cut spending. It also needs to cut its regulatory overhead (est. 14% of GDP) from idealistic levels back to optimal levels (say, 9% of GDP) in order to stimulate growth.

     

    The retirement age at which benefits start will likely need to be raised.
    21 Mar 2011, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    I dispute your implied notion that the U.S. is nearly-exclusively a free market economy. The part of the economy tied to govt. spending is primarily crony capitalism. That includes much of health care as well as defense, alternative energy, banking, and construction. The larger the budget, the greater the crony capitalism.
    21 Mar 2011, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    The housing bubble was free market? LOL Ever heard of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, or Countrywide Bank? They are/were major crony capitalists who pumped up the housing bubble. Of course, the Fed had a major hand in it as well by keeping interest rates low. The Fed is obviously a govt. crony.

     

    No question that free market agents tried to make lemonade out of lemons and that their leverage made a bad problem worse. Too bad that crony capitalism bailed them out instead of letting them all fail.
    21 Mar 2011, 02:36 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    -I would love to know what the rich buy "overseas" which is VAT exempt. When you import something you have to pay the VAT + Customs.

     

    Which is the practise in the entire world outside USA (maybe you have never been there)

     

    -Housing did well because interest rates declined, when the deficit was closed and the bond market boomed. It's called Macroeconomics.

     

    - The average Thai earns about $6,000 per year, and the average American just south of $50,000. That gap will not close within 5 years, unless the dollar goes to 5 baht per dollar. Not happening.

     

    The average Thai is just much more productive than the average American, works 7 days a week, and doesn't receive benefits such as unemployment, health care.

     

    I hope you get the chance to visit Iraq, especially the Shiite regions. I would even pay for your airfare so you could enjoy the success of your imperialism. Try saying "allah sucks" when you get to Kirkuk!
    21 Mar 2011, 05:13 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    FXMaven,

     

    I have observed all your anti-american bantor with others and have even agreed with some of your points.
    But enough is enough.
    This is supposed to be about investing, not politics although I concede I have gotten caught up in the BS many times myself.

     

    Keep the religion out of it or go away.

     

    And yes, ALLAH SUCKS, and I'll tell that to any Goddam Terorrist Muslim Extremist to their face.
    (this is in now way to degrade any peacefull worshipers of any religion)
    I live in the NY area, and was affected by what religious fanatics bring to the world.

     

    Nothing Positive, never have and never will. If it were not for the west they would not even know what the hell to even do with their oil. In fact the wheel would not even have been invented. They'd still be riding Camels as well as enjoying other favors from them.

     

    Give it a rest already.

     

    Next time the world comes crying to the US, we should tell them to eat their oil, or, take it from them in exchange for food and water.
    21 Mar 2011, 05:31 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Agree with you on all points and we need more states like your state.
    21 Mar 2011, 08:12 PM Reply Like
  • HA65MPH
    , contributor
    Comments (1366) | Send Message
     
    fx , why ?? ..ok , i know why you moved , ..ummm , ...you suck '' ..and thai'' needs more ..Suckers''
    21 Mar 2011, 11:50 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    We also have spec homes being built near my house and foreclosures are low in my town. I live in "flyover country." My county has been growing for decades as people have moved here from the coasts. State income taxes are high, but the cost of real estate is low.
    26 Mar 2011, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    In an economic context, "neocon" is just a euphemism for "progressive."
    26 Mar 2011, 08:13 AM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    The rich have the resources to travel overseas and buy high ticket items there absent sales tax. They don't pay VAT or sales tax on high ticket items like yachts or planes. Brazil was the beneficiary of American luxury taxes those harmed our yacht-building and private-plane-building industries. Americans went overseas to buy their high-ticket items.

     

    What was the interest-rate-decline but the pumping of the housing bubble. Deficit-closure was irrelevant to housing and so was the bond market. More important was WaMu and Countrywide making no-money-down, stated-income loans and being rewarded by the regulators by being allowed to purchase other banks in pursuit of universal home ownership as govt. policy. You don't know "come here" from "sic 'em."

     

    The wages in Thailand are increasing rapidly and unemployment in the U.S. is increasing as well if you use Gallup numbers. When you factor in U.S. unemployment, then the U.S. wage is closer to $40K. Factor in inflation, and the numbers are even closer.

     

    American productivity is still the highest in the world. Sorry.

     

    Try going to rural Pakistan and present yourself as a Canadian and yell, "Allah sucks." Good point.

     

    Go to the Shiite regions of Iraq and say, "I'm an American." Guess what? It's not an issue. Your claim of hatred because of "imperialism" is simply a lie.
    26 Mar 2011, 08:34 AM Reply Like
  • Trever99
    , contributor
    Comments (105) | Send Message
     
    Your logic on dividend tax is amusing. Don't tax dividends???? That's practically retarded. The proper solution would be to reduce corporate taxes and increase the tax on dividends. Income is income.
    19 Mar 2011, 12:06 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Trever99
    I think Econdoc's argument re taxes on dividends was not that they should not be taxed, but that they have already been taxed at the corporate level.

     

    I, like him, don't agree with the double taxation part.

     

    I also (in this rare circumstance) agree with most of what he said.

     

    The only thing I would question is what is his contingency if the growth he refers to in "stage1" does not happen?

     

    The effectivness of his entire plan needs such in order to be sucessful at all.

     

    And debt, not just deficits matter.
    19 Mar 2011, 12:27 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1848) | Send Message
     
    I'd go a different route, don't tax income at the corporate level at all, require a minimum annual dividend distribution to shareholders (25%) and then tax it at the individual level.
    20 Mar 2011, 07:38 PM Reply Like
  • HA65MPH
    , contributor
    Comments (1366) | Send Message
     
    Community leader ?? ...he left the village folks , to Rio'' ..Village Idiot -in chief .Gone !.....''HOPE' he never comes back , ..his stupid bu^^ boy biden , omg , .Another 'VI'' ....JMHO
    19 Mar 2011, 01:11 PM Reply Like
  • BlueOkie
    , contributor
    Comments (4708) | Send Message
     
    Do you remember the Clinton ad during the elections that said "Who will answer the phone at 3 am in the White House". Guess we found out. No one home.
    27 Mar 2011, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • Dopamine
    , contributor
    Comments (363) | Send Message
     
    Deficits are clearly understood by every politican in the entire world. But to say we are broke and your not going to get your pension is not why they ran for office. They ran for office to gain power.
    Telling the truth does not always bring the power to control a situation.

     

    Basically America should be discussing a subject that they can win.
    The current political system is at fault. A president should not run the country for more than 1yr. The Swiss system may not be perfect, but by sharing the leadership role between 7 politicans, means less lies. Change your top tier management structure and your deficit will shrink with the size of the power that is held by one party. By sharing the power the responsibility of governing is more likely to be done to a high standard, on behalf of the people not against them, and more difficult to blame last guy who did the job badly.
    19 Mar 2011, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • HA65MPH
    , contributor
    Comments (1366) | Send Message
     
    IN THE CASE OF OBAMMY , 6 MOS. IS LONG ENOUGH !
    20 Mar 2011, 07:57 PM Reply Like
  • BlueOkie
    , contributor
    Comments (4708) | Send Message
     
    If you write more than 2 or 3 sentences, people will not read what you have to say. Keep is short!
    20 Mar 2011, 08:13 AM Reply Like
  • Bozerdog
    , contributor
    Comments (464) | Send Message
     
    lets move to a new thread on a new topic. i think it is bad business to go to war without paying for it. just like supplementing medicaid or any other program without paying for it. ok done lets move on.
    21 Mar 2011, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • HA65MPH
    , contributor
    Comments (1366) | Send Message
     
    new thread ,
    Sir Winston Churchill 1899

     

    This is amazing. And even more amazing is that this hasn't been published long before now.

     

    CHURCHILL ON ISLAM

     

    Unbelievable, but the speech below was written in 1899! (check Wikipedia - The River War)

     

    I am sending the attached short speech from Winston Churchill, delivered by him in 1899 when he was a young soldier and journalist. It probably sets out the current views of many but expressed in the wonderful Churchillian turn of phrase and use of the English language, of which he was a past master. Sir Winston Churchill was, without doubt, one of the greatest men of the late 19th and 20th centuries.
    He was a brave young soldier, a brilliant journalist, an extraordinary politician and statesman, a great war-leader and Prime Minister, to whom the Western world must be forever in his debt. He was a prophet in his own time. He died on 24 January 1965, at the grand old age of 90 and, after a lifetime of service to his country, and was accorded a State funeral.

     

    HERE IS THE SPEECH:

     

    "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
    A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
    Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
    No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

     

    Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 London )
    Churchill saw it coming................

     

    www.incredimail.com/?i...
    22 Mar 2011, 09:40 PM Reply Like
  • BlueOkie
    , contributor
    Comments (4708) | Send Message
     
    Two things this country needs. One help thy neighbor instead of waiting for the gov't to do it. Two fight wars that are only in our, USA, best interest.

     

    If those two thoughts existed, then our gov't interference would decrease and our Defense budget would come under control.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:30 AM Reply Like
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