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Detroit's despair: Population has plunged 25% in a decade to hit a 100-year low; vacant housing...

Detroit's despair: Population has plunged 25% in a decade to hit a 100-year low; vacant housing units now comprise 20% of the city's housing stock. The no. 1 reason, IBD says: the United Auto Workers union. As long as total full-time pay and benefits for a Big Three factory worker stay near $140,000/year, Detroit will continue its descent.
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Comments (94)
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (10706) | Send Message
     
    You could focus on IBD's diatribe or read this...

     

    Detroit Outgrows Silicon Valley in Technology Jobs as Ford Binges on Hires - Bloomberg
    24 Mar 2011, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • Econdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (2944) | Send Message
     
    Interesting.

     

    Trade Unions are attracting high tech investment? I doubt it.

     

    My mother used to be a seamstress in the '50's and '60's and trade unions helped get her better conditions. But today's reality is that most companies, if not all, are a lot more enlightened as to what drives productivity and profits and a well trained, stable and positive workforce is a key factor. In many cases, labour unions are an impediment to improved pay and conditions. You only have to listen to the leadership to understand what a bunch of dinosaurs they are.

     

    The capital and the people have just gone somewhere else - they will come back if and when it is attractive or compelling.

     

    In this case Detroit's loss is San Antonio's gain. Let them get their act together and it will improve. Detroit has great natural assets - it is cheap and close to major markets and transport hubs.

     

    I believe it has as much or more to do with bad city governance than unions.

     

    E
    24 Mar 2011, 07:16 PM Reply Like
  • bigazul
    , contributor
    Comments (1069) | Send Message
     
    Be careful of your percentages bbro, 1000% growth from 10 equals 100. 1% growth from 20,000 equals 200.

     

    Personally I never understood the whole Silicon Valley mandate...high cost of living, high taxes, obscene property values and a state that is 100% unfriendly to business.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Econdoc,

     

    I agree for the most part.
    But is not Local/City Governance.

     

    If it were that easy, a company can move over to the next city to find more fertile ground.

     

    The Auto business is big business and involves big money,

     

    As such, like flies on Dogshit, it will always attract Big government .(AKA Feds and States ready to skim business and taxpayers)

     

    With the Help of Unions they just use it as a source of funds buying votes until the parasite overwhelms the host, which is exactly what happened.

     

    It is the centralization of government and abuse of state's rights guaranteed under the US Constitution, that renders local governments powerless to control economic policy to local interests.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:48 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Probably because it's VC central.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:11 PM Reply Like
  • G. L. Turner
    , contributor
    Comments (309) | Send Message
     
    Course, I don't hear the point being made as to the math if all the Execs whose salary alone was over $140K, yet alone all their benefits and Golden Parachutes, was equally averaged out and thrown inot the "workers and managers," then I bet the overall cost could be lower by $25K. Add in the cost to company of all the luxury trappings in the exec suites and travel, adds up to a decent percentage.
    24 Mar 2011, 11:44 PM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (10706) | Send Message
     
    I lived in that area....beautiful....
    25 Mar 2011, 04:14 AM Reply Like
  • RyanDolan
    , contributor
    Comments (81) | Send Message
     
    If anything, it's encouraging that there is so much pessimism still about the economy in light of the fact that things are improving. Like they say... bull markets 'climb a wall of worry', so if no one is worried then you are likely at the top.
    25 Mar 2011, 07:48 AM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    I agree that Labor unions have been a factor in the decline.
    But management made unsustainable promises that could not be kept. Then you have politicians making laws disallowing companies to cut back or renege even when necessary to save the ship.
    With things like "Job Banks" and advance notice of layoffs.
    (We have such things in my socialist state of CT too)

     

    As far as the 140,000 per year, that's bunk, and history. What remains of those figures is expiring through attrition.

     

    It's not, and not scheduled to "stay" at $140K
    24 Mar 2011, 06:39 PM Reply Like
  • youngman442002
    , contributor
    Comments (5129) | Send Message
     
    A woman on Bloomberg today was talking about all the great tech jobs in Detroit...new green car stuff...said they needed to hire more workers than graduate from the Detroit schools.....LOL...that is because 85% don´t graduate.....lol....what a use of a stat...
    24 Mar 2011, 06:44 PM Reply Like
  • Ed's perspective
    , contributor
    Comments (262) | Send Message
     
    Fascinating .....

     

    There have been other cities that have been deserted. Wonder how this one stacks up against boom towns in previous times. Charleston S.C. was once considered the wealthiest of cities in the WORLD ... when they were the largest supplier of rice.

     

    Days gone by. ...
    24 Mar 2011, 06:49 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    The mayor wants to raze 10,000 vacant residential units - good start. Detroit ranks pretty high up on the list of cities that need a 'do over'.
    24 Mar 2011, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • bigazul
    , contributor
    Comments (1069) | Send Message
     
    "I'll buy that for a dollar" Anybody remember the back-story to Robo-cop?
    24 Mar 2011, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    :) Yeah, a couple of those chain gun wielding robots couldn't hurt Detroit much, either.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:14 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Want to invest in my company--Omni Consumer Products?
    24 Mar 2011, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • Cuzilla
    , contributor
    Comments (42) | Send Message
     
    My 85 year old mother was a older of GM bonds. Between the UAW and their paid-for President, she will be "lucky" if she realizes 15-cents on the dollar. I'll never buy another car made by the UAW!
    24 Mar 2011, 06:54 PM Reply Like
  • epeon
    , contributor
    Comments (522) | Send Message
     
    I have thought about this. When Obama threw $50 + billion dollars at GM he did three things. First, he screwed the bondholders. Secondly, he screwed the taxpayer by leaving us with the bag. And, finally, he prevented a good bankruptcy judge from making the changes that were necessary.

     

    How many people who were bondholders or are related to bondholders hold a grudge and will never deal with GM again? How many taxpayers resent being used as a bank for GM and the UAW and will say "screw Government Motors"? And, finally, GM still makes non-competitive cars. Did Obama do the UAW any real favors?
    24 Mar 2011, 07:34 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    Damn, Law of Unintended Consequences!
    24 Mar 2011, 07:44 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Cuzilla,

     

    I understand your emotion and resentment, and also believe that the biggest mistake Obama made was how the bondholders were treated, despite the fact that I believed the industry should be saved.

     

    That said, one has to look forward.

     

    Is it the fault of the new 25 yr old, Skilled, Hard Working American making only a Middle Class wage as to what happened in the past?
    Should he pay for the recent mistakes of politicians and failed policies of the past?

     

    How does that help either yourself or future generations of Americans?

     

    Saying you would not consider an American car is comparable to saying one would never by a japanese car because of Pearl Harbor and WW2.

     

    Bottom Line, management has changed, the board has changed, shareholders have changed and many of workers have changed and/or been replaced.

     

    Boycotts you describe do not punish the culprits from the past

     

    It is time for healing.

     

    It would be best if most made their decisions based on the best product and price for their needs, rather than events of the past.

     

    I am sorry for the pain your mother has experienced and have endured similar within my own friends and family.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:03 PM Reply Like
  • nyuszika45
    , contributor
    Comments (633) | Send Message
     
    Of course not, no favours - but nothing was intended for GM, it was all intended for the unions. This keeps those fat union cats in their fat jobs for however long they can drag it out.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    No, no, no... Trumka and his ilk do it all for 'the people'.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Epeon,

     

    Changes were made and some in place before the bankruptcy, others instituted as part of.

     

    GM Makes non-competitive cars?

     

    On what do you base that on, 1970's rhetoric or your personal politics?

     

    www.cbsnews.com/storie...

     

    The attached article is just one of dozens I could furnish if necessary.

     

    Not that many decades ago, everybody said Japanese made goods were crap too!

     

    Ironic, because the US auto industry management likely once said the same as well.

     

    You're living in the past,
    and have no data to back up your claims.

     

    You should read Steven Rattner's book and educate yourself on the industry and the details of the bailouts, so you do not make yourself appear knowledgeable.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:23 PM Reply Like
  • francoisny
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Sorry for your mother but please cut Obama some slack on this one. Not his fault if she invested her hard earned savings in unsecured bonds of company with an overly fixed cost structured. Nothing is risk free. Including Uncle Sam's debt. And as friendly reminder, the first GM bail was brought to you in part by GWB.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:09 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    francoisny,

     

    Apparently you don't know much about Capital structure, Bankruptcy laws or the US constitution.

     

    Senior Bonds are the highest level and do not fall into the category "Unsecured"

     

    That's why some chose to invest in them.

     

    When making comments on subjects for which you have no expertise, you risk making yourself look foolish.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:29 PM Reply Like
  • coddy0
    , contributor
    Comments (1182) | Send Message
     
    francoisny
    And as friendly reminder, the first GM bail was brought to you in part by GWB.
    ======================...
    BHO! is it you ?
    24 Mar 2011, 11:33 PM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2688) | Send Message
     
    epeon-

     

    You said " Did Obama do the UAW any real favors? "

     

    Lets not forget that such political actions are always viewed through the prism of " how will this help me first" prospective.
    25 Mar 2011, 06:39 AM Reply Like
  • Yokyok
    , contributor
    Comments (330) | Send Message
     
    IBD is fulla poop.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:05 PM Reply Like
  • Duude
    , contributor
    Comments (3401) | Send Message
     
    I suppose if Detroit doesn't raze some of their most blighted of homes they're soon to become the shooting (drugs) capital of the US. Every large metropolitan has plenty of blight. They need to look at this as an opportunity to clean up as much as they can.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:06 PM Reply Like
  • nyuszika45
    , contributor
    Comments (633) | Send Message
     
    how about urban farms?
    24 Mar 2011, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • Hoopono
    , contributor
    Comments (323) | Send Message
     
    It's all the rage to assess blame so let me take a crack at it.

     

    Where enlightened management exists, labor unions do not. Smart organizers have known this for more than a century and never even try to organize a company or political body where enlightened management exists.

     

    However, it is difficult to find and hire mangers who are truly competent. They are rarely found in our best MBA programs, and would almost never consent to work for a governmental agency. An exception to this would perhaps be during time of war or genuine national emergency.

     

    It is also true that unions that come into being because their is a real or perceived need may in fact remedy the situation that they were called upon to deal with. By the time that happens however, the union leaders are very content with their newfound and comfortable job so they become very creative about finding new needs to fill. Remember we are still dealing with incompetent management here.

     

    So it goes on, year after year, everyone fat and sassy, blaming the other party for whatever is unpopular. We seem to never learn. Even though we urge our kids to get an education. Maybe even an MBA!
    24 Mar 2011, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Hoopono,

     

    Competent management in a free market, running a cyclical, capital intensive, highly regulated, business ,with very high fixed costs would take drastic measures to curb costs when demand falls of a cliff. The laws we have written by politicians, whose votes have been bought and paid for by organized labor, do not allow such.

     

    The best management in the world can't do their job with their hand tied behind their backs.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:17 PM Reply Like
  • Pandemonium
    , contributor
    Comments (44) | Send Message
     
    I find the following comment priceless, but that's probably because I'm not American:

     

    "If we could go out and identify another 40,000 people that were missed, and it brings us over the threshold of 750,000, that would make a difference from what we can get from the federal and state government," Mr. Bing said at a news conference Tuesday.

     

    I can already picture him with a flashlight looking under cardboards.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:11 PM Reply Like
  • Terry330
    , contributor
    Comments (870) | Send Message
     
    High paying jobs=state and federal taxes paid. Lower paid jobs in Republican states=food stamps, goverment housing, etc.
    The wealthy always have a way of taking "welfare" from goverment.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:13 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    The people on welfare, food stamps and living in government housing always have a way of remaining that way.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:25 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8852) | Send Message
     
    There you go again.................... once have an original thought.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • coddy0
    , contributor
    Comments (1182) | Send Message
     
    Terry330
    High paying jobs=state and federal taxes paid. Lower paid jobs in Republican states=food stamps, goverment housing, etc.
    The wealthy always have a way of taking "welfare" from goverment
    ======================...
    This explains why CA and Michigan are so right wing while North Dakota is liberal
    24 Mar 2011, 08:39 PM Reply Like
  • dave7782
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    More California tax dollars go to SD than the other way around.
    24 Mar 2011, 11:51 PM Reply Like
  • STAND UP FOR AMERCIA
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    By Joseph Foster
    Email jfoste3@aol.com . My book, ‘’Destruction of America", subtitled "Stand up for America” will be available February 2012 2011 at all major bookstores. Visit MY BLOG boblupoli.blogspot.com/

     

    Your letters of comment give us more insight as to the element of greed that has afflicted America. In brief here are my comments;

     

    Our Industrial cities are becoming a ghost town’ all you need is go to Detroit once the Automobile capital of the world.
    The number of Americans falling to the poverty level keeps increasing; we now have in excess of 43 million Americans surviving on government assistance in the form of food stamps.
    I want every voter to ‘’Stand up for America’’ Please do not accept the political rhetoric that the following political parties espouse; Republican, Democratic, Tea party or the Coffee party or the orange party if there is a such a party, will ever be able to make the change needed to turn America around, it is not going to happen, the only course of action that will bring about change is for the American people to begin to demonstrate and protest, perhaps one million.
    Americans should go to Washington and tell our elected officials of both parties that we the people shall no longer accept promises, but demand that the US Government forth with shall immediately address the issue of De Industrialization of America and restore the American dream.
    ‘’Never in the history of America has both political parties abandoned the American worker in favor of low paid workers abroad. ‘’Stand up for America’’

     

    .
    24 Mar 2011, 07:16 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    If America is deindustrialized, why is our manufacturing component larger than that of any other country?

     

    If you want to argue the number of manufacturing jobs, that's a different matter. Surely, the productivity of the "lazy" American industrial worker far outstrips that of all the industrious Chinese industrial workers. We don't need as many industrial workers as China to get a lot of output.

     

    Maybe it's time to consider setting a limit on the cost of regulation as a percent of the GDP.

     

    Maybe it's also time to consider changing the definition of "full-time" from "40 hours" to "30 hours."
    24 Mar 2011, 09:20 PM Reply Like
  • nfantis
    , contributor
    Comments (84) | Send Message
     
    Marketstudent --

     

    I agree with your point on changing the definition of a full-time work week.

     

    I've had discussions with my more intelligent friends about reducing the full-time work week from 40 hours. My premise is that the recessions shook out excess labor that wasn't really required; employers maintained them because times were good. Unemployment will continue to remain elevated above 5-6% until the full-time work week is reduced.

     

    There are just too many people to fully employ at 40 hours with increases in productivity over the years. Employees worked many more hours in the early 1900s, perhaps its time for another adjustment.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • Duude
    , contributor
    Comments (3401) | Send Message
     
    "Unemployment will continue to remain elevated above 5-6% until the full-time work week is reduced."

     

    France already tried this, and all will tell you it doesn't work at all. Reducing work weeks might mean hiring more people to you but the opposite happens. Business see the higher cost of hiring and training more to complete the same work. That means a drop in productivity. The end result is they bail altogether and outsource or they finally see the argument to add even more automation and robotics.
    25 Mar 2011, 10:42 AM Reply Like
  • Poor Texan
    , contributor
    Comments (3531) | Send Message
     
    When I began my career companies hired for peak periods and everyone got a rest during slow times. As employment costs rose, companies tightened up and by the time I retired they were hiring for the base period and using temps for peak periods. Think that's what happened in France also.
    25 Mar 2011, 10:20 PM Reply Like
  • STAND UP FOR AMERCIA
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    Joseph Foster, Author, ‘’Destruction of America", subtitled "Stand up for America’ ’Release date May 2012
    My blog: boblupoli.blogspot.com/

     

    In response to cutting the hours of work so as to create more jobs is not the answer, such action will only increase our labor cost and make us UN competitive.
    We are faced with in event in history when the G7 countries for over 100 years for the most part enjoyed a monopoly in manufactured goods, to day that is no more, other emerging market countries have now acquired the education and skill to produce the goods that was once produced by the G7 countries.

     

    Many of US jobs are being shipped overseas, other countries are heavily taking advantage of the US and the value of the U.S. dollar continues to decline...
    The biggest threat is American jobs being replaced by foreign low paid workers.
    Most of our politicians both Republican and Democrats are telling the American people that free trade is good for America, the facts does not bear such statement.
    Here are some startling numbers although I am unable to vouch for the numbers being absolutely accurate it comes very close.
    In 1970 approximately 28% of all jobs in America were manufacturing jobs,
    Today that number has shrunk to 9%
    Our garment Industry once employed one million workers to day that number has become history. The clothing workshop is now in Bangladesh, Jordan and other third world countries.
    In the past over one million Americans were employed in the electronic Industry,
    Now that Industry for the most part no longer exists in America.
    Technology has replaced many jobs but not as many that were lost to other countries

     

    We have become the joke of the world the people are not being told, how lopsided our trades with the rest of the world which translate to America buy more than you sell the rest of the world. It means massive trade deficit for the US, the numbers are ignored by Washington, the promise given by other countries that have gained advantaged is not to worry, make us more prosperous and we shall buy more from you, , that is not happening and will never happen.
    Yes, it may happen if we reduce American labor wages to perhaps $200, 00 per month without any fringe benefit. At that level all manufacturing will return to America and our export will zoom skyward.
    As to the American worker at this wage level, he or she will no longer be able to
    afford a car, a decent home or decent food.
    The American Auto worker hourly rate is $24.00 plus fringe benefit, new hire
    Are paid $15.00
    At this wage level India and China will in time produce all of the cars
    For the western market, with exception of German cars, Germany does not sell price they sell quality.
    4 Apr 2011, 07:23 PM Reply Like
  • STAND UP FOR AMERCIA
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    Joseph Foster, Author, ‘’Destruction of America", subtitled "Stand up for America’ ’Release date May 2012
    My blog: boblupoli.blogspot.com//

     

    The information you have that Amercia manudacturing componet is the largest in the world, this facts is now history. This year China is the largest Industrial country on earth, and it is predicted it will surpass the U.S. economicily in the next 15 years
    The U.S. and other G6 countries have now lost their monopoly in manufactured goods. China and India are now capable of producing any products that many years ago, were unable to do so, why the lack of education in the past has been corrected and to day India and China
    produce more scientist and engineers than the western world..
    7 Apr 2011, 09:52 PM Reply Like
  • Teutonic Knight
    , contributor
    Comments (2918) | Send Message
     
    That, $140,000, exceeds the pay scale of a Distinguished Professor in top US Ivy Schools. Check it out at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

     

    Likewise, a top UK Oxbridge Endowed Chair Professor won't even make it close to that. [Who supposedly could walk on water with their First Class Honors Degree].

     

    Amazing, really amazing. It begs the question. Who wants to wreck their brains to rush to the top? Not me, I'm not Oxbridge-educated nor Ivy, just run of the mill though.

     

    Hallelujah!
    24 Mar 2011, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Teutinic Knight,
    I would agree as to the absurdity of $140,000 for a UAW worker if it were true.

     

    But despite the Headline sensationalism, it is not.

     

    Don't believe everything you read.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:08 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered."

     

    The slaughter has begun fire up the barbee.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:32 PM Reply Like
  • tigersam
    , contributor
    Comments (1711) | Send Message
     
    Too cold. I can not mover there. I am moving to Florida. Do not look at me to occupy.
    24 Mar 2011, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1610) | Send Message
     
    Typical case of the parasite killing the host.....

     

    Obama screwed shareholders, bondholders to save the union and in the place secure votes...

     

    Setting aside that for a moment....Detroit maybe getting trashed around but other states are picking the slack and in the process working for a better America...an example is Texas....
    24 Mar 2011, 08:25 PM Reply Like
  • alpharox
    , contributor
    Comments (380) | Send Message
     
    This is easy - if workers hadn't been forced to work 18 hour days with no vacation under unnecessarily life-threatening work conditions there would be no unions.

     

    You can bet if you had to face the conditions business forced on workers that brought about unions, YOU'D JOIN THE UNION, too.

     

    How many thumbs down can I get for this nugget o' truth?
    24 Mar 2011, 08:26 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Alpharox,

     

    The conditions you describe best depict the US factory worker 70 years ago.

     

    Since then the US government has laws outlawing such abusive practices.

     

    The Unions have outlived their usefulness and should celebrate, "Mission Accomplished"
    24 Mar 2011, 08:31 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1610) | Send Message
     
    Nope, unions are there to funnel money into the political campaigns and provide lavish perks to people that doesn't do anything productive(top management of the union)....

     

    What's wrong with this generation of Americans, that they need protection by Big Unions and Big Government?

     

    Where's our individuality and hardship to prosper?
    24 Mar 2011, 08:34 PM Reply Like
  • sysin3
    , contributor
    Comments (61) | Send Message
     
    "Escape From New York", just sayin'.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:37 PM Reply Like
  • tigersam
    , contributor
    Comments (1711) | Send Message
     
    Some people have one track mind. All problems caused by Obama.
    1. It rain today -- Obama did something to make it rain
    2. What is your name? -- Obama must be asking
    etc etc...

     

    Come on guys. Obam is one of the smart president in the recent history.

     

    Lets stick to stock trading and making money. Let somebody else handle the politics.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:43 PM Reply Like
  • tigersam
    , contributor
    Comments (1711) | Send Message
     
    If you want to see despair just go visit Trenton. Everything is empty there for last 20 years..Only I see the sign 'Trenton makes and world takes'.
    24 Mar 2011, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Check out East St. Louis, crime capital of the U.S.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • Angel Martin
    , contributor
    Comments (1355) | Send Message
     
    the UAW reminds me of the brain-dead british print unions.

     

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

     

    the UAW will wind up the same as those british newspaper unions
    24 Mar 2011, 08:46 PM Reply Like
  • alan.greenscam
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    This is one of the biggest loads of shit I have ever heard, UAW greed, lol, what a joke! IBD give your neanderthal thinking head a shake, since the beginning of 1970 the big 3 in Detroit hasn't built a car, truck or whatever they build today to match the era of the 50's & 60's when you could be proud to own an American auto! Way back when when Detroit management decided in all their inept wizardy to start building cars, trucks etc to fail with inferior products while paying themselves million dollar salaries, million dollar bonuses, perks, stock options, huge pensions whether the company failed or not was the start of their own downfall..... I know of no union who had as many lear jets as GM did...... So I'll ask some simple questions, did the UAW order those lear jets, was it the UAW who decided to build inferior products, did the UAW get huge pensions when GM went bankrupt, did the UAW cause the Silicon valley crash, how about ENRON, WORLD COM, was that UAW, did the UAW cause the financial crisis, cause the sub-prime mortgage scam, foreclosuregate, you want me to go on...... let me answer for you you ignorant IBD...... NO, when America gets back to building quality like back in the 50's & 60's without any hidden agendas always trying to rip-off the American people, you'll see city's like Detroit prosper again........ but not until these very greedy CEO's, boardrooms, management get it in their heads, these so called leaders (in their own inept minds mind you) that sharing the wealth with everyone is thee only way to economic prosperity for all, not just in America, but in North America & around the world....

     

    one last question, why is it ok for some inept CEO to collect a $500 million dollar salary, with bonuses, perks etc for the year but anyone trying to make a decent living on a lousy $100k a year is criminal....... your sick IBD, $500 million pays a lot of wages..... you best re-think what has caused all these nightmares in Detroit and around the world.............
    24 Mar 2011, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    AlanGreenscam.

     

    Newsflash,

     

    Did you Hear?

     

    Obama fires GM CEO Rick Wagner (2009)

     

    Yes, the UAW in abuses of Bankrptcy Laws (They were Creditors)
    bypassed the bondholders and got paid.

     

    Go ahead, Tell Cuzilla's (earlier commenter) Mom the UAW wound up with nothing.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    GM bought a lot of real estate and the market crashed. It didn't have anything to do with lear jets.

     

    A lousy 100K? Dude, just send me a measly 100K, please!
    24 Mar 2011, 09:29 PM Reply Like
  • alan.greenscam
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    another one misses the point...lol
    24 Mar 2011, 09:33 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    Actually Detroit put out some decent cars (and some total bombs) and trucks in the 70's. The era of 'good' U.S. built cars ended when all the emission crap started getting crammed under the hood in 1980/81.

     

    I remember a 6 cylinder in an '81 Firebird that was jam-packed under the hood. Replaced it with a '73 SB 400 from a Chevy truck, and I could then STAND in between the fan and the radiator.

     

    The eco-freaks and the unions killed Detroit, not Detroit's inability to produce a decent product.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:29 PM Reply Like
  • alan.greenscam
    , contributor
    Comments (353) | Send Message
     
    Things started to change in the very early 70's when the big 3 in Detroit decided to change their quality control on how they would start to build autos....... in short, the UAW only builds what their told to, unions didn't kill Detroit, "management" did and yes those eco-freaks too..... as I stated in my first comment that a lot of people didn't get, lousy corporate decisions, corporate greed, lay offs, plant closures all come from management, not the UAW, the demise of real estate and people moving away be it out of town or another state is because of what I stated above and lousy government leadership....... plain & simple.....
    24 Mar 2011, 10:47 PM Reply Like
  • mgj
    , contributor
    Comments (15) | Send Message
     
    Emission controls were big from 1975 on. The US car companies really struggled the first few years.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

     

    But what really nailed the US car makers, IMO, was the Toyotas and Hondas, which kept getting better as the US cars got worse. Do you remember what GM called the infamous Chevy Vega? "Detroit's answer to Japanese quality". The 70s were learning years for the Japanese. By the late 70s, their cars were bulletproof, fuel-efficient, and reasonably priced. I owned two Japanese cars in the 70s. They were flawless.

     

    I think you are forgetting how bad US cars of that era were. When things get that screwed up, management and engineering have to be aiding and abetting. Management may have reached its low point with Roger Smith. This wiki article is worth reading:
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...)
    If you read about labor/management relations in that era, you have to wonder how anything got built at all. It was a relationship of mutual hatred and contempt. Both sides behaved disgracefully, IMO. To blame this disaster solely on overpaid workers is ludicrous.
    25 Mar 2011, 01:03 AM Reply Like
  • Speakeasy
    , contributor
    Comments (414) | Send Message
     
    Obama was an Acorn Community Activist who is screwing the working poor - do the research - food stamp recipients & ranks of the poor have increased in his watch. That is the plan - deficits equal confiscation of wealth.

     

    "The night we waved goodbye to America... our last best hope on Earth" 10th November 2008"

     

    Anyone would think we had just elected a hip, skinny and youthful replacement for God, with a plan to modernise Heaven and Hell – or that at the very least John Lennon had come back from the dead.

     

    The swooning frenzy over the choice of Barack Obama as President of the United States must be one of the most absurd waves of self-deception and swirling fantasy ever to sweep through an advanced civilisation. At least Mandela-worship – its nearest equivalent – is focused on a man who actually did something.

     

    I really don’t see how the Obama devotees can ever in future mock the Moonies, the Scientologists or people who claim to have been abducted in flying saucers. This is a cult like the one which grew up around Princess Diana, bereft of reason and hostile to facts. "

     

    Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...
    24 Mar 2011, 09:09 PM Reply Like
  • Leftfield
    , contributor
    Comments (4000) | Send Message
     
    I believe "the night we waved goodbye to America" was 3rd October 2008 when the political decision to decide to throw money at influential failures, particularly Wall St., GM and Chrysler, was enshrined by TARP.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • marketstudent
    , contributor
    Comments (232) | Send Message
     
    Leftfield, I disagree. It was when our political elite decided to pressure banks to make loans to irresponsible borrowers and rewarded banks (like WaMu) when they made nothing-down loans by the buckets.

     

    Then, in order to make our bankers "competitive" with foreign banks, banks were allowed to leverage their capital out the wazoo on the high-risk CDOs. Turns out that they were only "competitive" in terms of who could lose the most money.

     

    Certainly, preventing bankruptcies was a poor decision. The Fed could have ensured liquidity in the credit markets without bailouts.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  • Leftfield
    , contributor
    Comments (4000) | Send Message
     
    marketstudent, huge US economic and policy mistakes go way back and the pressure to bail out Wall St. stemmed from their previously issued bankrupt "products" leveraged 40X (the CDO's you mention) whose meltdown would have been obviously catastrophic.

     

    However, to bail them out and keep them above the law is such a dangerous new low in the assumption of fascist powers by our government that kept existing failed elites who should have faced at least bankruptcy at the top and with unprecedented access to the public trough that I consider it to be the main game-changer.

     

    This enshrinement of "TBTF" failure seems destined to drag the rest of us down anyway, bankrupt the nation and completely shred just rule of law.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • Speakeasy
    , contributor
    Comments (414) | Send Message
     
    Terry3330 you haven't got a clue! CA, NY, Il - all have high paying jobs, yet due to unions, and welfare they are on the brink of bankruptcy! They also happen to be blue states.

     

    You really should read a little more - oops! I forgot, you can't read you were educated by the NEA!
    24 Mar 2011, 09:13 PM Reply Like
  • Michael Filighera
    , contributor
    Comments (449) | Send Message
     
    Speakeasy -- You may be correct regarding NY and Il, but it is You that doesn't have a clue about CA -- As a native and current resident -- you are right in that there are many high paying jobs in California - but it isn't unions and welfare that have brought the state close to the brink of bankruptcy -- far from it -- and the fact that CA is a 'blue state' doesn't have anything to do with it either -- if you look a bit closer you'll realize that the majority of Silicon Valley CEO's are proud members of the GOP -two (Meg Whitman of eBay fame and Carly Fiorina noted CEO of Hewlett Packard) spent more than $200,000,000 in attempting to enter into their next 'gig's as Governor and US Senator- take a peak at the entertainment industry (Hollywood) and go back to the studio system (Warner Bros, MGM, Paramount, Universal) all run by major supporters of the Republican party over the years -- Least you forget that Hollywood and the state of California produced the much beloved Ronald Reagan - and if you travel a measly 25 miles south of LA you'll be in Orange County which is a solid republican voting block in national and state elections --also it should be noted that the majority of the Central Valley of California from the deserts in the south to the mountains in the north are solidly republican --

     

    So it's not welfare and unions but politicians both republican and democrat that have taken the great state of California to the brink of bankruptcy via sweet pension and retirement deals for public employees -- which before you climb on to that statement include the police and fire departments, prisons/corrections department, transportation department, education and city and state workers as well -- so when making generic statements knowing the truth can and will set you free.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:55 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    California has the most welfare recipients. AND they can go to fast food restaurants with their food stamps (then go buy pot, probably paid by medicare?) at the dispensary.

     

    Hollywood is Republican? Really? Maybe you were joking....
    24 Mar 2011, 11:12 PM Reply Like
  • Michael Filighera
    , contributor
    Comments (449) | Send Message
     
    JohnBin TN -- far from joking -- do some digging on Hollywood history and you'll see that studio heads were major supporters of republican candidates and governors, senators, both US and state -- my reference to Orange County stems from many retirees (from the television and motion picture industry) now live in OC and are solid republican voters. Your reference to buying fast food with food stamps -- what's the problem? - it keeps MCD's earnings high now doesn't it -- as for buying pot with Medicare money -- maybe you were joking -- or just not living in the real world - not sure which. But please before the rest of the country gives me the ole thumbs down on this comment -- take a look at your own back yard -- California is not filled with old hippies and those still hooked to sex, drugs, and rock'n roll. Most of them moved to Idaho a long time ago! Joking -- more seriously I believe that states such as Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Kentucky and yes I think Tennessee are plagued with meth labs and those addicted to crystal meth -- so you might want to step out of your glass house before you throw that stone.
    25 Mar 2011, 10:06 AM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (1227) | Send Message
     
    The old GM was an organization which existed for the employees only. This includes the unionized line worker, professional office worker and upper management. There was no thought whatsoever given to the customer, shareholder, supplier or creditor. A small amount of due diligence would have driven any potential investor away from GM. This is especially true after what Kirk Kirkorian went thru with the company. Anyone who got burnt as a shareholder or a creditor to GM got what he had coming. Sorry, but that's the reality of investing.

     

    I don't have any idea what the new GM is about. It will take a few years of performance to see what it does. In the meantime, there are a lot of vested interests battling for position, including the US Government trying to sell it's shares without obviously losing any taxpayer money. I personally won't touch this stock. There are plenty of other fish out there.

     

    Detroit is a good example of what's going to happen to the rest of our country if we try to maintain our international competitiveness by reducing our standard of living. It is time to stop the bickering and finger pointing and instead focus on becoming smart producers. When that happens, the deadweight will fall by the wayside, whether they be corrupt unions, incompetent managments, or spineless politicians. We are behind the curve here, and there's not much time left.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:34 PM Reply Like
  • stocknerd
    , contributor
    Comments (1436) | Send Message
     
    Folks, it might surprise you that many union workers are NOT democrats nor liberal.
    24 Mar 2011, 09:45 PM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (1227) | Send Message
     
    So why do they give their financial support to the liberals and democrats? Seems silly.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:24 PM Reply Like
  • Poor Texan
    , contributor
    Comments (3531) | Send Message
     
    The workers don't. The leadership has the money and uses it to entrench themselves and try to get laws to require all American workers to be unionized so they can have more power.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:58 PM Reply Like
  • jroliver77
    , contributor
    Comments (78) | Send Message
     
    All this banter about Detroit but really the state population has relatively been unchanged. People are just moving to the outskirts, the general environment and city management have done this to themselves. New auto plants, offices are going to cities like dearborn, livonia, really everywhere but detroit. Detroit doesnt really represent anything to do with the union worker.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:11 PM Reply Like
  • jroliver77
    , contributor
    Comments (78) | Send Message
     
    Results from the US Census released on Tuesday show that Michigan has experienced a 0.6% drop in population since the last census 10 years ago. Concerning but not telling of detroit only.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:17 PM Reply Like
  • cynic2011
    , contributor
    Comments (652) | Send Message
     
    Southeast Michigan sucks as a place to live. It doesn't matter what industry is located there.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:31 PM Reply Like
  • rabbitone
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    I have lived in the burbs of Detroit all my life. Pakistan has recieved more aid from the Feds than Detroit. And they wonder why its the way it is.
    24 Mar 2011, 10:57 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (2667) | Send Message
     
    Sorry the Feds weren't there to change Detroit's diapers.... Most US cities don't need federal government intervention to prevent them from turning into hellholes.
    24 Mar 2011, 11:16 PM Reply Like
  • Mobywhite
    , contributor
    Comments (413) | Send Message
     
    why should we bail out Detroit or any other city?
    24 Mar 2011, 11:52 PM Reply Like
  • Rodman
    , contributor
    Comments (13) | Send Message
     
    There's that problem. Plus the fact in Michigan overall taxes are too high and the government is hostile to businesses. Who do they think hires people? This is hardly shocking.
    25 Mar 2011, 12:31 AM Reply Like
  • Tony Petroski
    , contributor
    Comments (6368) | Send Message
     
    100 comments and not one getting it right.

     

    (From "The Godfather")

     

    (From memory, not from the script)

     

    Don Corleone: "Why do you bring such generosity to me?"

     

    Up-and coming mafiosi: "Because I need all those politicians and judges you have like so many nickels and dimes in your pocket..."

     

    ---

     

    Detroit has a political monopoly. It's a one-party city like so many of our hollowed-out cities. Monopolies don't work well for our government-run schools, and, outside of Cuba, one-party states or cities don't thrive. We have to re-institute political competition back into our education system and our big cities and then the union bosses won't have access to one party like so many "tokens put into the subway turnstile" (phrase attributed to John Hwang).
    25 Mar 2011, 07:28 AM Reply Like
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