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More Americans now work for the government than in construction, farming, fishing, forestry,...

More Americans now work for the government than in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities - combined. Stephen Moore: "We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers."
Comments (88)
  • waingro1
    , contributor
    Comments (17) | Send Message
     
    How many added since 2008?
    1 Apr 2011, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (4313) | Send Message
     
    "“We have now presided over the largest increase in the size of government since the Great Society,” said Sen. John McCain"

     

    www.washingtontimes.co.../

     

    About the 2000-2008 years.

     

    Sure let's compare it with 2008-2011, but do you really think its appropriate to cut out the expansion of the Bush era?
    1 Apr 2011, 07:36 PM Reply Like
  • Uber Vandal
    , contributor
    Comments (296) | Send Message
     
    In some, if not many, areas, government jobs are the only jobs left thanks to:

     

    Outsourcing of the manufacturing base;

     

    Competing with "migrant workers" and/or "H1B Visas";

     

    Foolish regulations that make it difficult for mom and pop farms to survive;

     

    After effects from a months long oil spill in regards to fishing;

     

    Spotted owls and minnows took care of the forest and mining industries.

     

    Fossil fuels are bad, M'Kay, for the Utility companies....

     

    Of course, not all regulations are bad, much like no regulation is bad too, but we seem to go to extremes too often.
    1 Apr 2011, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • Mack66
    , contributor
    Comments (35) | Send Message
     
    Vandal: This seeking alfa how dare you tell tell it like it is.
    1 Apr 2011, 06:50 PM Reply Like
  • KSAccountant
    , contributor
    Comments (770) | Send Message
     
    Stephen Moore: "We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers."

     

    Listen just once to the younger generation (i.e. under 20) and you will understand that our youngest generations firmly believe they are owed something for nothing. They (and even my generation of 30 somethings) will be unwilling to make the sacrifices required to keep America the great nation it is!!

     

    But, I agree wholeheartedly with Stephaen's statement...that is why I own weapons...someday they may come to take me as well. The Soviets said work on collective farms was great...I don't intend on finding out if they were correct...
    1 Apr 2011, 06:41 PM Reply Like
  • frosty
    , contributor
    Comments (712) | Send Message
     
    I don't consider teachers, police, firefighters, sanitation workers, and armed forces personnel (the vast majority of government workers) to be 'takers' rather than 'makers'. This is typical Rupert Murdock (owner of the WSJ) propaganda bs.
    1 Apr 2011, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • itsAme
    , contributor
    Comments (99) | Send Message
     
    I don't really think anyone considers teachers, police, firefighters, sanitation workers and armed forces personnel "takers". They are obviously needed and do a tremendous public service. I think what he really means is that they are not as "productive" as they could be and the system is unsustainable.

     

    A crude example: I work for a private employer, At raise time I ask for one and my boss says we can't afford it. "Cant squeeze blood from a stone"....Even though he maybe taking a huge salary

     

    Public union employees (firefighters in my town) say they are owed 3% due to their union contract even though the city is crumbling financially around them.

     

    Of course the politicians cave to them (as they should because its a contract) but they do the same thing at renewal and then just raise taxes.

     

    This system just can't work going forward
    1 Apr 2011, 08:44 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    Public sector employee unions should be eliminated. Federal laws provide all of the protections that average (private sector) people need - public employees don't need any more.
    1 Apr 2011, 11:40 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    There are diminishing returns to any investment and if we double our investment in education but test scores remain the same then we have definitely went past the point of diminishing returns. Yet teachers want more pay for doing the same thing every year and more investment. My experience is that I do more teaching at home with my kids then they do. They organize the lesson and send everyone home with homework.

     

    When firefighers compensation becomes more than just paying for everyone to have fire insurance then all things being equal it is time to let the house burn and just rebuild it. That is what tends to happen anyways. We have great firefighters but we can only spend so much.

     

    The armed forces personnel are grossly underpaid while in combat but on the other hand we are in too much combat.

     

    Personally I love sanitation workers. I have to believe they are the best investment we can make as they really keep things livable every day. And there is not that many of them. Don't screw with them.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:55 AM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    Privatize 'sanitation workers'. We pay for our trash collection (not in our property taxes), and we have 3 companies to choose from. Result? It's cheap. We pay quarterly, but it works out to $25.20/month. Ferret out the 'sanitation workers' portion of a tax bill, and I'd be willing to bet it's a lot more than that.

     

    No worries about strikes, either.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:29 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    I will go with that proposal.
    2 Apr 2011, 09:59 AM Reply Like
  • Christopher Grey
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    This is the classic sign of a civilization in decline. You can't have so many people just taking paychecks and producing nothing. It's going to bleed us to death. Without cutting back the number of government workers, our economy is doomed.
    1 Apr 2011, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • Teutonic Knight
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    I believe your argument of "..Classic sign of a civilization in decline..." may bear some truth. However, for my curiosity, what about the Chinese? The majority of their industries and enterprises are still 'state-controlled', and yet their economy appears to be on the rise.

     

    Could you throw more light on this phenomenon? This is a serious question and I am not being political in any sense, just to seek opinions.

     

    Thanks.
    1 Apr 2011, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • Christopher Grey
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    The Chinese are eliminating, not adding, government jobs. That's why their economy is growing. During the Maoist era when they were killing the private sector and putting everything in the hands of the government, there economy collapsed, tens of millions of people starved to death, and there was no real growth for decades.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:00 AM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    China can "grow" their economy number #1 because they have the equivalent of a slave labor force, a serfdom and land that can be confiscated at will and little to zero regulations beyond P.R.

     

    #2 Generational tides and currents that make millions upon millions accept menial labor that requires no literacy or expectation of more. As the West industrialized, educated, and raised their standards of living the willingness to toil decreased and the expecation of leisure increased. Has happened in Japan as they reached their apogee as well.

     

    #3 Untapped physical resources, an ability to access with few restrictions, and a growth versus stagnation that pays for the usage of raw materials to finished product regionally (especially considering #1 and #2).
    2 Apr 2011, 02:42 AM Reply Like
  • Christopher Grey
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Your comment could not be more inaccurate. First of all, slave labor does not improve economic performance. If that were true, the Soviets and the Maoists would have crushed the United States during the Cold War. Instead, exactly the reverse happened. It turns out slave labor is not very productive and certainly not innovative. Second of all, China does not have slave labor anymore. Wages in China are rapidly rising, which is part of their inflation problem. The Chinese are building a middle class as well as making a few people at the top very rich. I'm not an advocate of China's human rights policies, but you completely misunderstand and distort their economic policies. They have become more capitalist and pro market than we are, which is why they're destroying us now.
    2 Apr 2011, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    They are paying higher wages and creating a middle class very selectively, in urban and suburban areas of choice.

     

    The land and labor stolen is in more rural areas with lower literacy where they can steal the land and send in thugs from the big cities to enforce confiscation and work in the factories built on the farmland.

     

    The PLA controls the media, filters Google searches, so the Westerners they want to do business with and steal technology from don't see this.

     

    The are capitalist and pro market where it suits them. Crony capitalism in a country with no property rights or individual liberties or concern for the environment is juicy indeed.

     

    I cannot believe how many "capitalists" completely ignore the human rights abuses, the persecution of the practice of any religion or faith, so they can make a buck.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    U talkin about Chicago, boss?
    2 Apr 2011, 12:49 PM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    More random, chicken, yellow livered or robot thumbs down.

     

    Use your brain or go home.
    2 Apr 2011, 08:04 PM Reply Like
  • Christopher Grey
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    You clearly know very little about US history. If you did, you would know we did exactly the same things in this country as the Chinese are doing now at that stage of our economic development, which was about 100 years ago. Go read some US history books. Again, I am not supporting Chinese human rights abuses, but your views are ignorant of economic history and the realities of stages of economic development that happen everywhere. There is no utopia or perfect society, despite what the pacifists and the socialists would like people to believe. The road to hell is paved with good intentions of a perfect society. What the Chinese are doing is dramatically improving the average standard of living of their people. It is not perfect. Yes, there are abuses and people who are treated unfairly. They are the proverbial broken eggs that are necessary to make breakfast. We slaughtered about 20 million Native Americans to build this country. Was that fair? I don't think so. But we couldn't have built this country if we respected their rights to do what they wanted to do, which were in direct opposition to what we wanted to do. That is conflict. That is real life. Some groups win and other lose. It is painful, but it is unavoidable sometimes. Stalin and Mao murdered tens of millions of people, but they didn't build anything. That is the difference. You have to look at the net result of the actions taken by a society rather than expecting you can have progress without any painful side effects. It is naive to believe that will ever happen.
    2 Apr 2011, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    Christopher, I am not naive, I have a shred of decency and guts.

     

    You are not getting it; I will let your words speak for themselves.
    2 Apr 2011, 09:53 PM Reply Like
  • Christopher Grey
    , contributor
    Comments (117) | Send Message
     
    Decency and guts do not excuse ignorance and stupidity. Your words speak for themselves as well.
    3 Apr 2011, 01:32 PM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2804) | Send Message
     
    [We slaughtered about 20 million Native Americans to build this country.]

     

    How does one dispose of 20 million bodies? We'll need a historical link to the "slaughter of 20 million Native Americans", if you please. Or even better, a link to the mass burial sites for those 20MM bodies.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • Teutonic Knight
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    Some historians generally believe that the decimation of the North American Native Indians was, due mostly in part other than by battle slaughtering, to diseases brought in by the Europeans. The Indians lacked the built-up immunity to those germs.

     

    I don't have a link but if someone could provide.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:40 PM Reply Like
  • inthemoney
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    > I don't have a link but if someone could provide.

     

    I read the same in Jared Dimonds' "Gunds, germs and steel". Whole cities died out from the european deseases such as pox.
    3 Apr 2011, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • alpharox
    , contributor
    Comments (380) | Send Message
     
    Don't forget the 1% in jail - do we consider them government workers, too?

     

    The article is stupidly ridiculous, too suggest we should maintain the employment ratios of the '60s is to say we shouldn't technologically advance beyond that time period as well.
    1 Apr 2011, 06:53 PM Reply Like
  • Yokyok
    , contributor
    Comments (330) | Send Message
     
    steven moore is always stupidly ridiculous.. just another one of rupert murdoch's army of lackies
    1 Apr 2011, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2804) | Send Message
     
    Jail is big, big business for local governments and sheriff departments. A lot of money paid by the taxpayer for each and every young man in jail. A thousand-man jail will generate $50K -$150K per day in revenue from the state (i.e. from taxpayers).
    1 Apr 2011, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    Yup, this is why pot is still illegal.

     

    States make so much money off of State Liquor stores they keep it legal, besides all the cash from DUI's.

     

    And when they bust the lower end drug dealers, they confiscate the cash and cars and houses; another crew will get established before long and they will do the same to them. Big moneymaker.
    2 Apr 2011, 02:46 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    alpharox

     

    Hiring everyone into the government sector is not a technology advancement. Or having the government sector employee ranks swell relative to the private sector is also a backward step.

     

    We should maintain a reasonable ratio of public to private sector workers because the latter pay the former workers' salaries and if the ratio tilts too far then the latter quits working or goes to the ballot box and elects a slash and burn budget guy. This is not good for anyone.

     

    At another level how big should the Government sector be in the GDP number? If it is too big then welcome to the rebirth of the USSR.
    2 Apr 2011, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Johnny Walker Blue at $150 per, gives a nice yield re taxes. Pot, OTOH, legal, is a comparatively cheap crop. And those who toke, with their Peter Tosh posters and torn jeans don't have the funds to make it worth legitimizing.

     

    Thus saith the State.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:52 PM Reply Like
  • rrose39
    , contributor
    Comments (931) | Send Message
     
    Well Stephen Moore is first in line in the "nation of takers" because he's certainly a beneficiary of Bush's tax cuts (or is it welfare?) for the wealthy.
    1 Apr 2011, 07:22 PM Reply Like
  • patrails
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    I see it in the trades. When I got into the trades in the 80's there were many kids on the jobs. Now you don't see anyone under 30 while most people on the jobs are over 40.
    1 Apr 2011, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • rick flair
    , contributor
    Comments (369) | Send Message
     
    How can you not count all the losers on welfare and food stamps etc? they are effectively gov't employees. in some places, i bet you'd have trouble finding 2 adults out of ten thats not in a useless gov't funded, REAL , PRODUCTIVE, private sector job. by the bitter end, the uSSa is going to make russia look like a joke, for the simple reason , they print the reserve currency, therefore , they can drag this out to hilarious extremes. at some point, almost EVERYONE will be a defacto gov't unemployee....watch and learn...
    1 Apr 2011, 07:35 PM Reply Like
  • Duude
    , contributor
    Comments (3398) | Send Message
     
    The overall government payroll expanded in more ways than number of employees. Public employees saw some of the largest increases in salary in 2009 and 2010 of their careers even though they'd been seeing a steady rise in salary throughout both Bush and Clinton's 8 year terms. Some government employees saw their wages increase by a third. So how much is that wage freeze worth now?
    1 Apr 2011, 07:43 PM Reply Like
  • User 398666
    , contributor
    Comments (18) | Send Message
     
    Government employment is down 395,000 since the end of 2008.
    1 Apr 2011, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • Ken Solonika
    , contributor
    Comments (165) | Send Message
     
    No facts please.

     

    The Stinking Alf ideologues prefer a pure echo chamber.
    1 Apr 2011, 09:32 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The only place I am aware that cut employment is at the municipal level and because they had no choice. States took federal money to keep the state budgets balanced for a year or two but that appears to be over. You cannot be arguing that the Fed Gov cut employees.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:12 AM Reply Like
  • Duude
    , contributor
    Comments (3398) | Send Message
     
    Some states and cities did lay off employees but the Federal government went on a hiring binge for Homeland security, Justice, IRS,,Energy, Labor, and Education.
    2 Apr 2011, 08:41 AM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4136) | Send Message
     
    Big government is a non partisan employer brought to you by the symbiotic two party system. The American public is addicted to government programs, most of which have limited constituencies with the exception of medicare/caid and social security and therein lies the problem. Cutting non entitlement spending gets us nowhere, so what's the point say the takers. At some point, the productive classes will move on.
    1 Apr 2011, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • paynebb
    , contributor
    Comments (366) | Send Message
     
    I read the other day that the United States Post Office lost $8 billion last year. They are planning to lay off several thousand employees. They estimate the savings will be $750million/year. What about the other $7.25 billion dollars they lost? They will still lose $8 billion this year as healthcare for the remaining employees will increase 20%. Not to mention the affect of higher gas prices.

     

    This is one of the few areas in our Government that actually provides a service for the revenue that it receives. It is still poorly run because the Managers know they have the Fed. Govt will pay their inefficiencies.

     

    Meanwhile, FedEx and UPS continue to be profitable companies. They even have union employees!!! Really illustrates how poorly run our Government.
    1 Apr 2011, 08:23 PM Reply Like
  • itsAme
    , contributor
    Comments (99) | Send Message
     
    This is kind of funky example. The USPS isn't exactly 100% inefficient. By law they have to deliver and take mail from places FedEX and UPS won't go because its not profitable(think rural addresses). FedEX and UPS know this as well as other examples of federally mandated services that they don't have to provide and exploit it.
    1 Apr 2011, 08:47 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    Where does FedEx / UPS not deliver to? I've gotten packages in some pretty remote locales - they just deliver it in a pickup truck or a van instead of a box truck.
    1 Apr 2011, 11:44 PM Reply Like
  • Mack66
    , contributor
    Comments (35) | Send Message
     
    Yes they do deliver everywhere but do they charge 42 cents like the post office?
    2 Apr 2011, 12:09 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    No. But they do charge $42 billion, every year, to the taxpayer.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • itsAme
    , contributor
    Comments (99) | Send Message
     
    Think regular mail. like letters. where the USPS will go to a rural address 6 days a week. It might take 2 hours to visit 6 houses, FedEX and UPS will only go there if they order from Amazon. they will go to the one house that ordered and they will get paid by Amazon.

     

    Its really not fair playing field. Could the USPS be more efficient? No doubt. But its not fair to attribute their entire operating loss to them
    2 Apr 2011, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • Pathfinder's
    , contributor
    Comments (161) | Send Message
     
    The major item in the article, is, "There are not enough Tax Payers" available to continue to pay the High Wage, High Benefit and High Pension Plan, for the current Government Employment. The taxpayer is tapped out, and they cannot go into additional debt to pay increased taxes. That won't work for sure.
    NOT ENOUGH TAX PAYERS, for all of you Government Employees that comment from the Political Left.

     

    Don't know what will happen, when the State and Local Governments start to default on their over promised pensions commitments.
    1 Apr 2011, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • rrose39
    , contributor
    Comments (931) | Send Message
     
    if "there are not enough tax payers" then raise taxes on those who can most easily afford it, i.e., the wealthy welfare recipients of the
    Bush tax cuts.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:13 AM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    What happens when you run out of those?
    2 Apr 2011, 01:32 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The debt and government obligations are getting big enough now where we need to take massive amounts of wealth out of the private and corporate sectors. This is not a tinkering with margins problem or just tax the rich. At some point everyone is going to wake up and realize that our government has absconded huge amounts of wealth from everyone through debt issuance.
    2 Apr 2011, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    "At some point everyone is going to wake up and realize that our government has absconded huge amounts of wealth from everyone through debt issuance. "

     

    But at least it was 'free' right?

     

    And isn't that all that really matters...
    2 Apr 2011, 12:25 PM Reply Like
  • Teutonic Knight
    , contributor
    Comments (2603) | Send Message
     
    I wonder if he had left out the military in uniform and the defense contractors in the defense industries.
    1 Apr 2011, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Griller
    , contributor
    Comments (151) | Send Message
     
    Classic Nazi diversionary scapegoating. The victim-blaming continues.
    1 Apr 2011, 09:06 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    "We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers."

     

    Unless we can move from a nation of takers to a nation of shakers or quakers or cupcake bakers or work for the Los Angeles LAKERS!
    1 Apr 2011, 09:23 PM Reply Like
  • Witchy
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like the standard Marxist line coming from the WSJ and so many here. According to standard Marxism, the manufacturing workers "produce" while all the rest are only superfluous "superstructure." But ask yourself this: weren't government-paid pencil-pushers ("takers") crucial for, among many other items, the development of the jet plane, nuclear bomb, computer, internet ...?
    1 Apr 2011, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Nuclear bomb, yes. Jet plane, no. I think the commercial thirst for profit would have driven it into existence. Computer and internet? Its a toss up.

     

    It could even be argued that the bomb was a function of the free market in terms of creative free inquiry being allowed to have wide berth within the no-confines and lack of restrictions of the Manhattan Project. Indeed, the founders all fled fascist states. There is a reason for that; free market aka free inquiry aka free society etc. etc.

     

    But the real question is what kind of paradigm sea changes of innovation were never produced, even now, that we'll never know about due to the incredible robbery of resources the government commandeers? By forcing each person to work for them 4 months out of every year, that annually destroys an unthinkable amount of time, talent and treasury as well as discovery, innovation and disease fighting ingenuity that we will never know of.

     

    I mean, the Twirly Schmirly hasn't even been discovered yet. Nor the Epiglottis Surreptor-iPHLAT. Sending men to the moon? Ha. How about condos on Mars for PROFIT!

     

    Yeah, yeah. It will take a lot more than pencil pushers to get us there.

     

    It will take all of mankind's imaginative powers. Unless government decides to 'intervene' and rob him of that too.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:39 AM Reply Like
  • Witchy
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    More powerful than those who make widgets: those who shape the language. Don't let Murdockian simplicities turn you into an idiot.
    1 Apr 2011, 10:40 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Or somebody who uses the word Murdockian?

     

    Or is that only something an idiot would use?
    2 Apr 2011, 01:42 AM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    Logical consequence of high productively gains and the outsourcing of jobs overseas. USG jobs are difficult to outsource overseas.
    1 Apr 2011, 11:33 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    As the the parasite gets bigger, the host get weaker until they will both ultimately share a grave together.
    1 Apr 2011, 11:46 PM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    Confusion of categories.

     

    Example: US government contractors are probably considered added to the taker side. Conversely, a large amount of US manufacturing is outsourced overseas, this overseas manufacturing headcount really should be considered as US manufacturing headcount albeit non US citizens.

     

    The more accurate question is how many people work for the USG (permanent + contractors) versus how many people work for US corporations (permanent + (us contractors + overseas contractors)).
    1 Apr 2011, 11:49 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    Since nobody works in construction any longer, to use that as a component in the headline is merely sensationalism
    1 Apr 2011, 11:53 PM Reply Like
  • KJP712
    , contributor
    Comments (455) | Send Message
     
    I am sure Moore will point us in the direction of where all the jobs are located.
    1 Apr 2011, 11:53 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    I thought they had to be created. Or are they only located?

     

    Indeed. The more government intervenes, the more they will continue to be located elsewhere to escape such intervention.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:44 AM Reply Like
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3184) | Send Message
     
    He brings up good points. I don't think the two things exactly correlate as population growth has helped the growth in government services and thus more government employees.

     

    Where I think he's spot-on is with public education. We've added a ton of bureaucrats administrators, and extra teachers and have little to show for it. There are areas of necessity - like the FDA, Firefighters, Police, etc... and periodically we need to question how they've grown and if they are meeting today's/tomorrow's needs or are the fulfilling yesterday's needs.

     

    Its a difficult message to tell people that our standard of living has declined and that means those that "serve" will have to see their standard of living decline also. But it is a message that needs to be made loud and clear.

     

    Merit pay, getting rid of the dead weight, and reasonable retirement plans need to be implemented. We are quickly heading to a time where government services will be slashed just to maintain things like health insurance and pensions for retired government employees.

     

    Much as I hate to say it, I don't believe the majority of Americans have the backbone nor the fortitude to handle the changes needed to get our fiscal house in order. Multiple agencies need to be cut, social security needs to have the retirement age raised, Medicare/Medicaid need to restrict which things it will take care of (and the rest is up to the patient), Government employees need to accept no more step raises and lower salaries by about 10-15% and need to have drastic reform to their health care and pensions, The military needs to be cut by 40-50% over a 5 year period, Taxes need to go back to the rates they were before Bush and all additional revenue needs to go directly to paying the debt down.

     

    And we might also try getting rid of crony capitalism, taking to trial those responsible for the financial crisis, and prosecuting fraud instead of rewarding and bailing it out.

     

    It would be a good start!
    2 Apr 2011, 12:03 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    davidbdc

     

    Your dire outlook is absolutely warranted. I will not add anything as it stands alone pretty well.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:22 AM Reply Like
  • Trever99
    , contributor
    Comments (105) | Send Message
     
    reduce the military. zero value added.
    2 Apr 2011, 12:23 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    United States wars should be much fewer in number, but when involved in one, much shorter and devastating. I prefer brief and brutal to long and nice.

     

    No more embed journos.

     

    And neither any prisoners.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:47 AM Reply Like
  • stringband
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    We have the largest number of military employees this world has ever seen. I'm not talking about soldiers, we have a lot of those too but all of the others are simply unacceptable. The long run loss to our economy from the talent drain will set us back 30 years compared to our economic competitors.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:07 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    China's foreign policy is much smarter than ours. Russia learned this lesson after Afghanistan. Let nations fight amongst themselves, sit back and eat popcorn. Then, move in and tap the natural resources.

     

    America is like the fullback, opening up a hole. China is the half back who follows behind, then gets the touchdown.

     

    Our soldiers are like, wtf, as the Chinese are doing their victory dance in the end zone, moonwalking and spiking the ball and shit.

     

    America has a derelict leadership. The American taxpayer is being beaten and robbed.

     

    I really want a war for oil. If we're gonna go, let's get something in return. ROIC. But no. The multiculturalism of Sesame Street has actually invaded the Pentagon.

     

    We will never get back the debt owed us by the turd world. We should have never expected one in the first place. First rule: don't invade a shithole unless the shit is made of gold, and you are the jeweler.
    2 Apr 2011, 01:53 AM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1561) | Send Message
     
    Defense Department budget is around 5% of GDP, it is low....

     

    Oh, and the US soldiers are fighting for your freedom, we need them, so a very idiotic comment of yours....
    2 Apr 2011, 03:14 PM Reply Like
  • fivejaykims
    , contributor
    Comments (20) | Send Message
     
    HA HA HAH! You speaketh the truth Sir Wyatt! Don't lie to the American people and tell them we are "at war" to help the innocent civilians being slaughtered, tell them the truth...it is for the oil!
    2 Apr 2011, 09:15 AM Reply Like
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (4313) | Send Message
     
    It's amazing to me how disconnected even Americans are becoming from the political leadership. Do the French feel they have provided the mandate for intervention in Libya to their leadership? Do the Irish feel they provided the mandate for their government to bailout their banks on the backs of the populace? Do we here in the US feel the President was right to intervene in yet another internal sovereign conflict?

     

    The comments here imply individuals are feeling more and more disconnected from their political leadership as the interests of few - whichever few - are promoted over the welfare are the general public....
    2 Apr 2011, 10:03 AM Reply Like
  • MEHMET_INVESTMENTS
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    AND WHO IS AT FAULT FOR THAT?

     

    Our government is at fault for enacting import laws that allow our companies to ship our jobs overseas for low wages and ship their products to the United States to make their money off the American people. And which laws also allow other Countries to ship their products to America while creating export difficult for U.S. Manufacturers and Farmers, etc. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not pick up a product with the words "Made in China" on it. I cannot remember the day when I last picked up a product that had the words "Made in USA". Our government has sold us out.

     

    So go tell it to the Feds. It is only right that they pay for the mess they put us all in. They are destroying this country to fatten the pockets of their buddies through the lobbyist and the big wig business exec.s
    2 Apr 2011, 11:16 AM Reply Like
  • KSAccountant
    , contributor
    Comments (770) | Send Message
     
    All my rifles (except one) and pistols...and even ammunition say "Made in USA". Proud to say America is still good at many things...
    2 Apr 2011, 12:08 PM Reply Like
  • Witchy
    , contributor
    Comments (37) | Send Message
     
    History's most important innovators have it seems rarely been motivated by the lust for monetary gain above all else. From Homer and Thales and Socrates, Moses and Paul and Augustine, Abelard and Leonardo and Newton, to Locke and Rousseau and Jefferson, Beethoven, Whitman, to Van Gogh and Pasteur and Einstein, the Wright Brothers and Alan Turning and Arvo Part: financial and moral support has come from a variety of sources, while the innovators were motivated most essentially by something else, something often not seen or recognized by the myopic or fanatically simple-minded or juvenile ... and a crucial factor was that the culture, the society valued the quests and innovations gained.

     

    Writers who had first-hand experience of the rise of the Fascists early in the 20th Century frequently used the term Philistines to describe them. H. Arendt made the phrase "banality of evil" famous, and later defined banality as the absence of thought and imagination, and thought she defined as "conversations in the head." The banal don't have conversations: only a long tedious monologue of the same simple shallow stupid, because unexamined, cliches over and over and over again, like a stuck record.

     

    Today, we're witnessing another wave of something similar. Democracy turns to tyranny when too many want their lowest inclinations and habits in power because they are unable to rise above their own pettiness, and many want revenge against those whose make them feel so small ....
    2 Apr 2011, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • KSAccountant
    , contributor
    Comments (770) | Send Message
     
    Witchy, I may not agree with most of your other comments to this article (or others) but I have to say that this particular comment was well written and made me consider the reasons behind my own actions. I appreciate the civil discussion and diversity generally common on Seeking Alpha and the ability to read differing points of view on many investment related topics (some liberal leaning while others lean conservative). I may not agree with some comments and I may state my opinion rather crassly at times (you can tell my conservative stance) but typically I am not berated for my differing opinion and I appreciate that.
    2 Apr 2011, 02:50 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Witchy

     

    I am not sure it is even this deep. This is more like crack cocaine addicts that need a fix. We have millions of people who just want what they want and they want it free. Then they have the pusher which is their local congressmen telling them how much they got for them and they certainly deserve more because somebody living on the hill has obviously robbed them. Just give me your vote and I will slip you some more Benjamins.
    2 Apr 2011, 07:02 PM Reply Like
  • rrose39
    , contributor
    Comments (931) | Send Message
     
    When it comes to Takers, Stephen Moore is at the head of the line.

     

    He's very wealthy and pays only 15%, if that, in Federal taxes, while the vast majority of the middle class pays a far greater percentage of income in Federal taxes.

     

    Stephen Moore is a Welfare Recipient. He doesn't pay his fair share in taxes, and instead spends his time writing long treatises that are designed to convince others that his welfare payments are somehow justified.

     

    He should be ashamed of himself for being so Un-American.
    2 Apr 2011, 03:04 PM Reply Like
  • Paine in America
    , contributor
    Comments (20) | Send Message
     
    15% is a great number...
    Now cut everything equally, and secure ONE Tax at 15%, and the US will gradually and rather rapidly increase surplus, and thus enjoy a less inflationary recovery...
    3 Apr 2011, 05:09 AM Reply Like
  • Land4citizens
    , contributor
    Comments (19) | Send Message
     
    If you want to talk about takers please include the land owners. Land values for just the households in this country total approx. 4-5 trillion dollars. When you factor in the urban, suburban, rural non-household and commercial land, the total is much higher. It is probably the largest or close to the largest asset class we have.

     

    None of this value is the result of the actual land owner/owners. All this value is created by the community. It is a "taking" from the productive sector and giving it to the non-productive sector. This is the largest wealth transfer in this economy and it is off the radar.

     

    It is easier to go after teachers, janitors, clerks, etc.
    3 Apr 2011, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    "It is easier to go after teachers, janitors, clerks, etc."

     

    Hey we wouldn't "go after" teachers, (DMV) clerks and whoever else if they were private.

     

    Make them private. Suddenly they are my best friends.

     

    As long as they remain 'public' they will be my enemy and the enemy of this country.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:14 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Beyond the insanity of public unions which is only a paid army of voters and should be made illegal the teachers stuck their fool heads out of the foxhole and tried to tell the country that is in recession how the rules did not apply to them because they are special.

     

    Obviously our teachers are not too smart as their self image escaped from reality for a bit. But they have learned how to rob the taxpayer through government arm twisting. I guess that is a useful skill to teach.

     

    And by the way they are always saying political junk to my kids at school to support their lame pro union position. Like my kids have any idea what to think. Some of the High School kids who have never paid any taxes towards schools were striking with the teachers recently which is a real winner.
    4 Apr 2011, 01:06 AM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3333) | Send Message
     
    T Viewpoint,
    I totally agree,

     

    Was their political opinion they were preaching an approved part of the curriculum as authorized by your board of education?

     

    If not, they should be fired.

     

    But then again, we have unions, tenure, binding arbitration, lawyers politicians, etc....

     

    In my locale it can cost as much as $500K just to fire teacher given all the hurdles.

     

    Please, just make it stop.
    4 Apr 2011, 02:29 AM Reply Like
  • User 871887
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Stephen Moore and Christopher Grey are absolutely correct!

     

    The status of the US in the world is in consistent decline. Soon, we will not be the leaders in most areas and that is super fine with liberals. Lliberals desire so much for us to be AVERAGE. Check the stats, more people work in govt. and take from govt. that any other time in our history.
    3 Apr 2011, 06:10 PM Reply Like
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