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Republican Congressman Ron Paul plans to hold a hearing in May on the Fed's emergency loans from...

Republican Congressman Ron Paul plans to hold a hearing in May on the Fed's emergency loans from its discount window to non-U.S. banks. The "staggering amount" lent to these banks "provided no benefit to American taxpayers, the American economy, or even directly to American banks," Paul says.
Comments (87)
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (10021) | Send Message
     
    "provided no benefit to American taxpayers, the American economy, or even directly to American banks"

     

    A naive OB/GYN from Lake Jackson Texas...here is a hint...
    " It prevented a depression"....
    3 Apr 2011, 01:17 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    He has a point which is different than yours. And, your point is very valid BTW. Dr Paul believes that it is not America's responsibility to police the World nor to save the World. That is why he feels differently than you about the importance of the intervention.
    Respectfully
    3 Apr 2011, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2896) | Send Message
     
    American footprints are already all over the world. USD is world's reserve currency (which we are abusing this position tremendously at moment). More than half of S&P 500's profits come from foreign countries. The Fed can't deny reality and act like scared ostriches.
    3 Apr 2011, 01:29 PM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (10021) | Send Message
     
    You raise a very good point.... we the Taxpayers have shipped to date
    over $780 billion to fight in Iraq ( and I am not including Afghanistan
    since the Taliban did house Bin Laden)...where are the hearings for
    that debacle??? Instead we attack the Fed and Ben Bernanke with
    a vehemence like he is the Taliban....misguided..... me of the
    Ox-Bow incident...with Dr. Ron Paul as Major Tetley....
    3 Apr 2011, 01:31 PM Reply Like
  • anarchist
    , contributor
    Comments (1466) | Send Message
     
    bbro: I respectfully disagree:
    seekingalpha.com/insta...

     

    seekingalpha.com/insta...
    3 Apr 2011, 01:39 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (14044) | Send Message
     
    7foot:

     

    A free-flowing global economy, unlike the populist parochial thinking exhibited by people like Paul, is rather like an automobile with four wheels (Asia, Latin America, Europe and the U.S.). In Paul's myopic view, if the air stars to go out of the tires, it's only important to pump up one of them -- the U.S. one, of course -- and the others can all go flat. Of course, the car won't go very fast or get very far with one tire re-inflated and three flat ones.

     

    It's precisely this kind of insular, jingoistic thinking that resulted in various nations taking shortsighted protectionist measures, inhibiting trade and ultimately amplifying and extending the Great Depression. It's fortunate that this kind of thinking didn't have a hand in the decision-making related to assisting the worldwide financial community in the recent crisis, or we would have been duplicating the depression that many projected, but which never occurred.
    3 Apr 2011, 01:41 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    the bill for AF/IQ is much, much higher.

     

    you can't run a country/reserve currency with a 230 billion MONTHLY deficit.

     

    Or a massive increase in the monetary base that simply provides risk free trading revenues for Banks, punishes saving, does nothing to heal housing or labor markets, and has created 8% yearly inflation, possibly 10-15% in EM's.

     

    Both Congress AND the Fed are wildly out of control, and act without accountability to anybody except their masters in corporate america.

     

    That's what Ron Paul, and I object to. You should object as well, as a taxpayer (I am thankfully not a US citizen) and citizens, and presumably a holder of some USD/USTs.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Every country looks out for itself, except USA, who looks out for its corporations.

     

    That's what Ron Paul objects to, and 300 million people are more important that the 3 million uber rich in the USA who use the US Govt and Fed as their personal insurance and retirement fund.

     

    You may not realize it, but USA is economically more like Nigeria or Russia than Germany or even Thailand.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2793) | Send Message
     
    Tack: "In Paul's myopic view, if the air stars to go out of the tires, it's only important to pump up one of them -- the U.S. one, of course -- and the others can all go flat."]

     

    Actually, I interpret Paul's statements to question the reason the US has to PAY to pump up the other 3 wheels. And who gave the authority for the maintanence men (i.e. who specifically are the bank executives) to pump up those three other tires, which, of course WERE pumped up and paid for by the American taxpayer (and not any other taxpayer in the world). It's myopic alright. And quite proper to investigate, imo.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:12 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    Tack
    I do not think that I did but just in case there is a misunderstanding, I did not intend to indicate an agreement with Dr Paul only a clarification of why the opinions differ.
    I believe that the popularity of his position is a normal reaction to the absence of clear political, economic and energy policies in this country. I am not confident that all would agree with me but that is my opinion of the popularity of his opinion. 
    3 Apr 2011, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8705) | Send Message
     
    Tack:
    "like an automobile with four wheels (Asia, Latin America, Europe and the U.S.). In Paul's myopic view, if the air stars to go out of the tires...."
    And just who in the world appointed Ben as the worlds savior; without even telling anyone that he self appointed?
    BTW, the Asians, Europeans and South Americans have air pumps also so why didn't they bail out their own frigging banks.
    Also, at the time of the Great Depression the aforementioned economies were not in the position to do what they can do today to help themselves.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (1112) | Send Message
     
    No it didn't
    3 Apr 2011, 02:28 PM Reply Like
  • Econdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (2944) | Send Message
     
    let him have his hearings

     

    Paul is a joke and the more he and Bernanke go head to head the better the Fed looks.

     

    let him ask his questions, let's hear them,I am dying to know what's on his mind, he is funnier than John Stewart

     

    Dr. Paul is way too dim a bulb to realize this but the best argument for the Fed - is him and his stupid politician tricks antics.

     

    A little different from addressing the Lake Jackson Junior League

     

    E
    3 Apr 2011, 03:11 PM Reply Like
  • Econdoc
    , contributor
    Comments (2944) | Send Message
     
    bbro

     

    the debacle in these places was in the execution but not in the strategy. the neocons were right and subsequent events support this idea but the execution was weak - they had no plan after the first 10 days - that was clear

     

    Rumsfeld was the principal player in the execution and he was a complete disaster. Worst Sec. of Defense. Ever. Much, much worse than McNamara - at least he was a planner. Once he was out of the picture - Iraq turned around. Afghanistan will end up overall neutral - the main issues there are they took their eye off the ball - Rumsfeld again - and the backed Karzai - who is as venal and downright awful as they come. He must go. But enough of the past.

     

    Bush also must own some part of this since he was the CEO - but he was very poorly served by Rummy.

     

    Bernanke has the right strategy and has executed it very well. He is running a clinic on avoiding a Depression and escaping deflationary gravity.

     

    Bernanke for President

     

    E
    3 Apr 2011, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • realornot
    , contributor
    Comments (1281) | Send Message
     
    How can you level this argument same as the Iraq/Taliban/Bin Laden? Not the same thing. Invalid argument.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:39 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1532) | Send Message
     
    Eat cake and suck it up , Marxist extremist.....

     

    The Fed would continue another 100 years, and then 100 years more...well you get it....

     

    A Fed policy that enrages our enemy, especially China is a plus for me...I'm tired too of the manipulation of the yuan currency by pegging it to the dollar, something a lot of people miss...if they don't want inflation they have an option, let the currency float and reset to a higher value....or suck it up....

     

    Ron Paul has conservative values that I admire, but he doesn't know nothing about monetary policy and he should stick to fiscal policy and pressure Obama to cut the damn deficit, and then you would see Ben Bernanke raise rates and end QE...let's see if Obama can step up...
    3 Apr 2011, 03:52 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4559) | Send Message
     
    Tack –

     

    Your analogy is very apt and, in fact, we too soon forget that during the sharp global credit crunch in the months immediately following the meltdown in the fall of 2008 the G20 agreed to coordinated fiscal stimulus and monetary easing (amounting for each country a minimum of 2% of its GDP) which, while it did not prevent the deep global recession, did prevent a deflationary depression. Canada, to give only one example, in order to meet these international commitments incurred Federal Government deficits over the past two and a half years well in excess of what was needed to address its relatively mild domestic recession.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:54 PM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    Ah yes, the "only the geniuses know how to run a bank" argument.

     

    It's o.k. to steal from the mouths of babes as long as it hurts the Chinese, who we are in bed with and have outsourced most of our jobs and technology and knowledge to. That makes a lot of sense.

     

    Nevermind that my kids and I are and will be taxed (enslaved) for the sake of foreign bankers, after all, it prevented a depression started by malfeasant banks and bankers supported by the FED.; yeah, that makes sense.

     

    Next we will use live bodies of citizens to create logjams to prevent floods and say "we did if for the children" and that the ends justify the means.
    3 Apr 2011, 04:27 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Oh yes I'm a marxist extremist who believes in balanced budgets, currency as a store of value,democratic accountability, and real economic growth. Like the Chinese "communists"-except for the democracy part, but who cares about fake elections anyway?. I know education in USA is awful, but this comment, like the USD, keeps setting new lows.

     

    Bernank has done with the printing press what Stalin did with the Red Army - rob the unfortunate individuals living under his regime through currency debasement, inflation, declining earning and purchasing power, while enriching the corrupt political & economic elites who run the show.

     

    Anyway the Chinese "communists" keeping beating USA at its own game - if they are communist, "marxists", I don't take it as an insult, just a sign of your severe lack of understanding.
    3 Apr 2011, 04:47 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Econ-

     

    you hold USD, i'll buy gold.

     

    Bernanke's performance metric is the USD. Ron Paul's is Gold. Check out UDN & GLD, the charts send an unequivocal message about what is going up and what is going down.
    3 Apr 2011, 04:51 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1532) | Send Message
     
    Again suck it up, Marxist extremist...
    Oh....look at what I found...

     

    FX Maven clearly states..

     

    "950 on the SP 500 by March 31, 2011"..

     

    Oh boy, you're an idiot.....

     

    Maybe if you could invest wisely you could buy the bamboo you always wanted and be king rice padder...
    3 Apr 2011, 04:57 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    ok so it will take a few more months. Bernank delayed the collapse with his magic money machine.

     

    meanwhile my oil & gold & tobacco doin' just fine, i have plenty of time.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:08 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    US Empire is over. One day you won't be able to fund your 800 worldwide miltary bases with printed worthless Bernanks, and the world will breath a sigh of relief.

     

    Corps. will become increasingly non-American "transnational", and many will just pack up and leave, many for tax purposes.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:14 PM Reply Like
  • realornot
    , contributor
    Comments (1281) | Send Message
     
    What are you doing with capitalism if you are a marxist!? SA is not for you at all. Where have you get yourself educated?

     

    According to Wikipedia:
    "In 1928, Stalin replaced the New Economic Policy of the 1920s with a highly centralised command economy and Five-Year Plans, launching a period of rapid industrialization and economic collectivization in the countryside. As a result, the USSR was transformed from a largely agrarian society into a great industrial power, and the basis was provided for its emergence as world's second largest economy after World War II.[2] However, during this period of rapid economical and social changes, millions of people were sent to penal labor camps,[3] including many political convicts, and millions were deported and exiled to remote areas of the Soviet Union.[3] The initial upheaval in the changing agricultural sector disrupted food production in the early 1930s, contributing to the catastrophic Soviet famine of 1932–1933, one of the last major famines in Russia. In 1937–38, a campaign against former members of the communist opposition, potential rivals in the party, and other alleged enemies of the regime culminated in the Great Purge, a period of mass repression in which hundreds of thousands of people were executed, including Red Army leaders convicted in coup d'état plots.[4]"

     

    Anything has to do with printing money.
    It is Weimar Republic, Germany.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    I have a masters in finance. And only silly yanks think I am a marxist.

     

    BTW your government controls much more of the economy than anywhere else in the world, half your population, and 1/3 of your corporations are only surviving on government handouts. Without the military USA unemployment could be 20%.

     

    Tell me, doesn't USA have the highest amount of people in prision, along with China?

     

    So in fact USA is more socialist (or at least equally so) than the rest of the world. And try studying economics and giving yourself a good, cold,dispassionate look in the mirror.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:33 PM Reply Like
  • rooftop
    , contributor
    Comments (140) | Send Message
     
    I don't care that you are a Bernanke lapdog but the thing I really don't understand is why you continually mock Ron Paul's medical training. Seriously WTF is your problem? You think that because he went to med school he doesn't understand economics? Trained economists are correct about as often as meteorologists so what difference does it make what Ron Paul studied at the college level?
    3 Apr 2011, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • dondon
    , contributor
    Comments (286) | Send Message
     
    Ron Paul was absolutely opposed to the war in Iraq and still is.
    3 Apr 2011, 07:54 PM Reply Like
  • gentle man
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Ron Paul is not naive, he knows gold is the ultimate preserve of wealth and that the dollar is going down because of Fed actions.

     

    Having said that Bernanke has only one option, to continue QE because the socialist administration can adjust their budget like very middle class family is doing, the problem is the politicians from both sides, who doesn't matter the deficit as long as they can offer more welfare and goodies.
    3 Apr 2011, 08:15 PM Reply Like
  • Xtrayield
    , contributor
    Comments (286) | Send Message
     
    Paul's a nutjob, but it's good for the country that he have his anti-Fed hearings so that there can be a full public forum where Bernanke and other Fed-sters can put him in his place.
    3 Apr 2011, 08:31 PM Reply Like
  • coddy0
    , contributor
    Comments (1182) | Send Message
     
    wyostocks
    BTW, the Asians, Europeans and South Americans have air pumps also so why didn't they bail out their own frigging banks.
    ======================...
    remember
    it were not their own frigging bank making making bad loans

     

    It's like you had storage of fireworks in your home and then when it had blown and set all neighborhood on fire you yelling to them

     

    don't you have your own fire extinguishers in your frigging homes
    3 Apr 2011, 10:24 PM Reply Like
  • coddy0
    , contributor
    Comments (1182) | Send Message
     
    Tack
    A free-flowing global economy, unlike the populist parochial thinking exhibited by people like Paul, is rather like an automobile with four wheels (Asia, Latin America, Europe and the U.S.)
    ======================...
    I am agree with your however more drama can be considered

     

    Like this => Each part of cardiovascular system has to be unblocked to have normal blood flow
    3 Apr 2011, 10:38 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8705) | Send Message
     
    I don't recall anybody forcing them to buy anything. If they were too frigging stupid to know what they were buying f**k em.
    They were greedy bastards looking for a high yield investment and their bankers were just as much to blame as ours so why should the US have bailed them out?
    3 Apr 2011, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • coddy0
    , contributor
    Comments (1182) | Send Message
     
    Econdoc
    let him ask his questions, let's hear them
    ======================...
    What if Dr. Paul asks
    What you Ben was doing between February 1, 2006 and September 15, 2008
    and
    Ben. Where are the Lehman Brothers
    ----------------------...
    "I know not" would work for Ben?
    3 Apr 2011, 11:16 PM Reply Like
  • rothyman
    , contributor
    Comments (126) | Send Message
     
    @Tack

     

    Wow.. you really took free flowing economy out of context and butchered it. The analogy I'm sorry to say was not even close to what libertarians believe in.

     

    Proper Analogy:

     

    TARP Economy: A car that represents the US as a country. 4 Tires that represent companies within the US. Let's say banks for fun. Now what we are doing now is as soon as a tire runs out of air (fails), we fix the hole and fill it back up with air. After doing this several times, the tire doesn't have the discipline to hold air anymore. Other cars (other countries) are looking at us and saying what the hell are you doing? (And being hit by our car at the same time, damaging them as well).

     

    Libertarian Economy: As soon as one tire begins to run out of air, an up and coming tire (company) comes to replace it with a fresh new tire. Failing tires are weeded out and successful tires will stay. The car (country) runs properly and other cars around us (countries) are inspired. They no longer are 'forced' (attacked) to like us. They respect us because we have built this free-flowing system.

     

    What you describe is isolationism and you're TOTALLY off point. Libertarians like Paul WANT free trade more than you can imagine. Free Trade does not equal nation rebuilding. Free trade does not equal policing our oil assets (whether good for our economy in the short term OR NOT).
    3 Apr 2011, 11:28 PM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    Keep it up, their subconsious hears you ;-)
    4 Apr 2011, 02:48 AM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    They do not want to be awoken from their wet dream.
    4 Apr 2011, 02:51 AM Reply Like
  • jockum
    , contributor
    Comments (62) | Send Message
     
    How much is written of that is written up on the Iraq´s bill? Nothing? Off course some is. I just think they should be able to be more active and partaking when setting the procurement terms.
    4 Apr 2011, 03:21 AM Reply Like
  • Dan in mpls
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    Actually, it delayed one, though Im not saying that was not reason enough to do it.
    4 Apr 2011, 05:21 AM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (10021) | Send Message
     
    True....but we are getting the worst of Dr. Ron Paul not the best....
    4 Apr 2011, 05:22 AM Reply Like
  • Richard Mackenzie
    , contributor
    Comments (453) | Send Message
     
    Dr Paul is right. It's not our job to stop the plane we're in from crashing! Jeez...
    4 Apr 2011, 08:22 AM Reply Like
  • ebworthen
    , contributor
    Comments (2811) | Send Message
     
    Tack,

     

    Yeah, much better to sell out generations of individuals and families so you can have a fat cigar, a scotch, and a mistress (pool boy).

     

    Damn peasants, isn't that why the gene pool is differentiated anyways?
    4 Apr 2011, 10:35 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8705) | Send Message
     
    Perhaps the outrage that I and others feel is not so much the actual deed, but the magnitude and, the denying and lying about it.
    Ben had many an opportunity to tell us what he was doing and chose not to do so.
    As such he has lost the confidence of the people and should resign.
    3 Apr 2011, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    wyostocks
    The constant cries for transparency come with a requisite that the individuals requesting transparency are capable of comprehending the information they request. There are many in this country whose only clue about what has occurred as a result of the financial crisis and the Fed actions is derived from the six o'clock news. I have seen your posts so I know that you are more studious than that. If Ben had gone up to Capitol Hill and said in front of a Congressional hearing that if we do not take this action the very economic foundation of our country is likely to collapse, what do you think would have occurred when that news hit the air waves?
    3 Apr 2011, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • dsadak
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    We were not trying to prevent "world depression", actually I’m sure that the intention was quite the opposite of that. I think it is common knowledge (at least today) that current derivatives trading infrastructure coupled with adamant strive for “economies of scale” – exposed banks around the world to enormous systematic risk. This risk was the key factor that emergency liquidity measures were trying to address. I am 100% confident that if our banking system was isolated or (in idealistic world) if world banks were never allowed to attain the critical mass where they started to pose systematic risk to the entire financial system – emergency assistance to foreign banks (or in ideal case the entire program) would not be necessary. Given that financial isolation is neither feasible nor in any case a preferred path to be taking (as some conservatives were trying to steer us into) sensible anti-competitive measures must be enforced.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:18 PM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (1112) | Send Message
     
    The US had to pay that money. The US is the source of the bad loans and the false AAA ratings that supported them. Everyone around the world knows this, and a lot of foreign investors are hopping mad at the U.S. for letting this happen. When the loans went bad, they almost pulled down the entire world's economies.

     

    Ben had no choice but to bribe the biggest players to keep them from retaliating. Too bad he had to use Taxpayer money to pay them off. Even worse, the culprits who created the mess get off scott free, and get big fat bonuses to boot.

     

    If anything comes out of these Ron Paul hearings, I hope it's that the crooks get exposed and the politicians have no choice but to stop protecting them and actually throw a bunch of them in prison.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • Dan in mpls
    , contributor
    Comments (244) | Send Message
     
    But, wouldn't Congress first have to make what they did to us illegal?
    4 Apr 2011, 05:33 AM Reply Like
  • Dopamine
    , contributor
    Comments (363) | Send Message
     
    Maybe the US owed the foreign bank a load of paper, and had too pay their bills to keep the foreign banks from going belly up. As much as I adore Dr Paul, and I agree with the inquiry, but, what if finding out the details, shows, the Fed was just washing money and shot it to the banks so they would shoot it back in treasury purchases. Its going to be revealing in any case, lets hope the good Doctor doesnt get tarnished from the Feds shady dealings.
    3 Apr 2011, 02:49 PM Reply Like
  • bricki
    , contributor
    Comments (1099) | Send Message
     
    One can debate whether or not any benefits were obtained from making these loans.

     

    BUT exactly what was the harm? These loans were essentially all short term and have pretty much all been paid back already, generally at a profit to the Fed and by extension to the US taxpayer.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:07 PM Reply Like
  • realornot
    , contributor
    Comments (1281) | Send Message
     
    Is FED a World Bank? They are but they kept denying it. It is why other countries are complaining we are flooding them with our cheap money and causing a massive jump on commodities prices.
    The poor and middle class people are suffering from it. Do they care? Not really.
    FED would never have released such document if they were not subpoenaed. It is shamful that they were using our tax payers money to bail out foreign banks. Many of them are still in trouble even billion of our bail out dollars were injected.
    It is very sure QE3 is very much dead and FED chairman will not get another term for sure.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • Pandemonium
    , contributor
    Comments (44) | Send Message
     
    Since when has helping the US taxpayer been of any concern to the FED, or the Federal government in general? This is nothing more than posturing. Diverting the attention to foreign outflows does in no way fix internal problems.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    A number of these banks had US presence and customers and therefore Federal Reserve oversight and FDIC insurance. Legally they were operating with US banking charters granted by federal and state governments so the Fed has no legal grounds to not consider them for relief for their US operations. If the Fed went beyond that I don't know.

     

    Whatever the case bring on the hearings. A little light brings forth much understanding.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    I gotta laugh. When you state a plain unassailable fact and get 6 thumbs down that is absolutely hilarious. There must be some real morons on this board because they have nothing to say but just click thumbs down.

     

    Probably could not spell Fed if you spotted them the F and the e.
    4 Apr 2011, 12:44 AM Reply Like
  • Origa
    , contributor
    Comments (551) | Send Message
     
    I believe if John Boehner ran for President in 2012, he would win.
    3 Apr 2011, 03:50 PM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4056) | Send Message
     
    My head is spinning. I find myself agreeing with much that is said on both sides, but perhaps they're both wrong. I have little doubt that TARP and the Fed prevented a depression (so far); although U6 and the number of families on food stamps might suggest otherwise. In a credit based monetary system, what happens to the money when the credits disappear and didn't the Fed just kick the can down the road by flooding the system with dollars backed by nothing? Can the demand for dollars be so great as to prevent collapse? I question whether the economy can pull us out of this mess. Econdoc, please enlighten me.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    Not with 80 trillion of unfunded liabilities under the rug.

     

    US citizens under 55 won't see one cent from medicare or social security - it's a tax, and the money's gone for good into the black hole of US Federal finances.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (14044) | Send Message
     
    Lost in all the frantic discussion of how all world paper currencies will fail, and, presumably, we'll all return to little bags of gold dust, is the fact the denominators of "value" have nothing to do, in the long run, with the production of goods and services. It's possible to have any measurement yardstick one wishes -- from gold, to wampum, to tulips, to whale bones, to ivory, to pieces of paper with pretty pictures on them, and all have been used, and many more -- and in the end, all are priced according to their relative scarcity and those prices are constantly adjusted, as quantities wax or wane.

     

    The real driver of human commerce is need and want, and as long as people need and want things, then, work will be done, products will be made, services offered, and life will go on. That's the principal, and overwhelming, fallacy of the pessimists. They equate currency debates and gyrations with a projection of economic activity and they ignore the constant, perpetual human element to the equation. And, while I was typing this probably several thousand new souls joined the planet, having new needs, wants and aspirations.

     

    Economic activity is relentless, like glaciers moving down mountains, and it's only abated for brief moments in the continuum of time by human fear, not by any other element, and certainly not by the choice of measuring yardstick for conducting commerce. So, in the end, the pessimists can be right for an occasional "five minutes" of time, in planetary terms, while the optimists will prevail for all the remainder.

     

    Perhaps, not for others, but for me, it's a rather easy choice on which to bet.
    3 Apr 2011, 05:55 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1532) | Send Message
     
    Tack don't forget your bet with FX Maven aka the bamboo hutler....You won it.
    3 Apr 2011, 06:04 PM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4056) | Send Message
     
    Tack: Did I read you write? Are you betting on the dollar?
    3 Apr 2011, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    sure, ok. but you forget that everything of value is made in Asia for 90% less than in America, and these people who will consume these products/services in the future will probably be asian as well.

     

    so what you said is true for asia/latin america/africa.

     

    europe and US are unable to support their aging populations and declining middle classes, or will go bankrupt in the process of trying fool them with lots of worthless paper, europe being a bit less of fraud than the bernank.
    3 Apr 2011, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (14044) | Send Message
     
    Geoff:

     

    No, I bet on companies that provide goods and services. The companies do business in and can be priced in dollars, euros, yuan, etc. If one invests in the right entities that produce the needed/wanted goods/services, then, the currency, which is merely a value yardstick, is rendered irrelevant.

     

    Over time, such companies will rise in value, measured any way one wishes. They are the "store of value," not the yardsticks used to measure their performance. That's why value and long-term investing works, contrary to many recent assertions; it's also why equities remain underpriced in a depreciating-currency world.
    3 Apr 2011, 06:59 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (14044) | Send Message
     
    fx:

     

    "Everything of value is made in Asia...." Really?

     

    Measured in exactly the same way for all participants, U.S. GDP is presently larger than China, Japan and Germany.....combined. Apparently, we're still making something of value, despite the hyperbole.

     

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

     

    P.S. When one invests in global companies, one isn't investing in the "U.S.," anyway. Companies now transcend national borders and currencies.
    3 Apr 2011, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • The Geoffster
    , contributor
    Comments (4056) | Send Message
     
    Good to hear. I'm long commodity and energy stocks.
    3 Apr 2011, 07:04 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    so the US doesn't have a massive trade deficit? (its the biggest cumulatively in human history, as is the national debt/yearly deficit)

     

    try also comparing GDP per capitia, US is not #1, hasn't been for a long time.
    3 Apr 2011, 07:26 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Tack

     

    You are right about the advancement but that does not mean that all boats will rise together. Most people on this board are likely from the US and have to wonder where this ship is going. Definitely Asia will have success the next 10 years. Canada and Australia also.

     

    The US will stumble along but which direction is hard to tell. The debt is monstrous.
    4 Apr 2011, 12:51 AM Reply Like
  • pier0188
    , contributor
    Comments (147) | Send Message
     
    Ron Paul is a loon. There are dozens of foreign banks that operate in the US, lending to US businesses and US citizens, actively participating in loan arrangements with other US and foreign banks. Just the same as US banks operate in overseas markets in many countries.

     

    For better or worse, the world is interconnected now. I know Ron Paul and his loony son would like nothing better than return the US to the Island Of America, whereby all worldly events are not considered influential upon America, but that would effectively destroy our economy. This isn't the 18th century and being a pig farmer and nail maker might have been OK when infant mortality was high, but this is a modern society.

     

    He needs to get his ass out of 18th century politics and economics.
    3 Apr 2011, 07:48 PM Reply Like
  • SlingWing9
    , contributor
    Comments (501) | Send Message
     
    In all of this discussion there is merit in considering why the USD is the global currency, why something produced in Asia costs less, why the U.S. consumes so much of the planet’s natural resources, why the U.S. is a destination country, and why the global playing field is not level. People should travel the world and live on the various economies as a resident of many different countries and all answers to all questions would become insanely obvious.
    3 Apr 2011, 07:51 PM Reply Like
  • Cerberus
    , contributor
    Comments (200) | Send Message
     
    Why would anyone want to leave America... We have got it made here. If you want to see what the third world looks like, just drive on over to you locally economically segregated part of the city known as the "poor" area. There you will find all sorts of signs of "third world" similarities.

     

    But, I bet you wouldn't do that because your just to used to going out in the "safer" part of town.
    3 Apr 2011, 09:43 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    The "Third World" is doing pretty well now, and is no longer so.

     

    It's America that is old, bankrupt,draining the health care system and going through foreclosure.

     

    I can give you '000s of reasons to live in Thailand or Vietnam.
    3 Apr 2011, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8705) | Send Message
     
    "i can give you '000s of reasons to live in Thailand or Vietnam.
    "
    Start listing them.....................
    3 Apr 2011, 11:00 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    weather
    food
    women
    nature
    wildlife
    booze
    motorcycling
    beaches
    oceans
    diving
    snorkeling.....
    3 Apr 2011, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • rothyman
    , contributor
    Comments (126) | Send Message
     
    Yes, and we have none of this in the US.. ha, a conversation for another time.
    3 Apr 2011, 11:36 PM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    maybe, but in thailand you can do whatever you like, drink beer in public, without being hassled by control freak police, insurance companies, and without spending a fortune.

     

    i have a beachfront bungalow with modern facilities for $400 per month (w/internet), i can rent a motorbike for $5, and can be solidly pissed after a night in a bar for about $10, great thai food costs $1.50 for dinner. Average monthly spend for 40 degree weather, food, beer, transport, ocean and sun ; $800.

     

    health and auto insurance in the states is at least $700/mo. , for absolutely nothing. And a run down motel on the BP coast in Fla will run you $75-100 per night for a soulless box with no service, no smiles, no nice thai food.
    4 Apr 2011, 12:01 AM Reply Like
  • SlingWing9
    , contributor
    Comments (501) | Send Message
     
    This is all really off topic but I can't let Fxmaven's reply go unanswered.

     

    Weather? The monsoons start in June and it rains 24/7 until Sept. I can't say I miss that. There are days that are just hot and humid.

     

    Food? That's where I learned to put local food in my mouth and if I liked it, I ate it, otherwise I didn't. But I learned not to ask what it was. For instance, the Thai fish sauce Nuoc Mam. Do you know how it's made? They put fish in a burlap bag and hang it over a limb in the sun for several days. After it spoils, they squeeze the bag to extract the juices and add a few spices. Whala, Nuoc Mam. What did you think? That there's a factory somewhere? They also have really creative ways of preparing dog and monkey.

     

    So you want to compare that to what - maybe The Olive Garden here in the states?

     

    And don't drink the water.

     

    Women? Are you familiar with the term PID? Hang around there long enough and you'll know what that means. I notice you didn't list hospitals.

     

    Booze? Just like fish sauce they make their own. Blindness is common for those that live long enough or hadn't you noticed. Too much lead.

     

    Motorcycling? I guess you like Mopeds.

     

    Beaches? You got me there. Now that's a life. Lay on the beach for a month drinking those colorful little drinks with an umbrella in it. After the 3rd day of that, what do you do now?

     

    Nice try though.

     

    Just because we took them off bicycles and put them in jets doesn't mean they're suddenly high tech. That's a whole different world. 3rd world is still 3rd world - sanitation, health care, pharmacies, living standards (3 generations sharing one room in a grass or mud hut), education, on and on and on.

     

    Many countries have an American sector where all life is good. But that's not the real economy or the country. You should get out more. But, you made me laugh.
    4 Apr 2011, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    I guess if you like living in a sterile ex-urban insta-mansion (with negative equity), eating tasteless frozen food at olive garden, looking at obese american women, watching FOX news or American Football, while slave to a predatory greedy health care system, USA is for you.

     

    Life in Thailand is fun, the people are fantastic, the nature is great, the food amazing, and at least the government shows up to help when a monsoon hits.
    4 Apr 2011, 01:26 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    PS ; I actually like to eat the grilled frogs and rats, with a little red chili sauce..mmmm
    4 Apr 2011, 01:27 AM Reply Like
  • fxmaven
    , contributor
    Comments (1455) | Send Message
     
    there are also plenty of good hospitals too
    4 Apr 2011, 01:29 AM Reply Like
  • SlingWing9
    , contributor
    Comments (501) | Send Message
     
    Well Fxmaven,

     

    This has actually been a fun conversation. My situation is not as dire as you make it out to be - but my traveling days are over. At one time, I missed all those things you talk about - I missed the time when I had no wife, no family, and no home. All that has changed now and I could not imagine living that life with a wife and family. That life is tantamount to living in a constant state of adventure and occasionally near crisis and it was a blast as a bachelor. Such things as retirement, good healthcare, a quasi-stable government, a good home, all become more important than the adventure. You are definitely a minority but enjoy it while you can. The great saving grace is you can come home to the U.S. when you like; not everyone can.
    4 Apr 2011, 01:55 AM Reply Like
  • anarchist
    , contributor
    Comments (1466) | Send Message
     
    I have lived in Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, the US and now live in Mexico and Cerberus you don't know sh*t.
    4 Apr 2011, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • anarchist
    , contributor
    Comments (1466) | Send Message
     
    faxmave, right and other than the border towns in Mexico which are a basket case due tho the demand for drugs in the US the same could be said for Mexico.
    4 Apr 2011, 10:06 PM Reply Like
  • Paine in America
    , contributor
    Comments (20) | Send Message
     
    I think the point made here is whether the U.S. Taxpayer should be at the liability end of providing loans by the FED, at no benefit or return...

     

    You can say what might have been, but you cannot say that keeping the same course of action will not harm those least responsible for much of the crisis...
    3 Apr 2011, 08:57 PM Reply Like
  • valueinvestor123
    , contributor
    Comments (327) | Send Message
     
    I would love to see a law passed which says no U.S. incorporated bank can be leveraged more than say 5:1 and in the same law have it say that only banks incorporated in the U.S. can borrow from the FED. That way either the investment banks are forced to delever or forced or stop using the FED as a lifeline. I also think banks should be forced to keep a minimum of 80% of the loans they underwrite on their own books regardless of who is backing them. Finally, down payments of at least 20% should be required on all homes because it bothers me that people took out loans they knew they couldn't afford while I continue to live debt free and within my means.
    3 Apr 2011, 09:35 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (8705) | Send Message
     
    And perhaps some sort of the same law should be levied on whatever you spend your money on also.....................
    3 Apr 2011, 11:01 PM Reply Like
  • rick flair
    , contributor
    Comments (369) | Send Message
     
    i can't decide whose more fkd in the head, the liberal trolls who defend the one side, in these instances, or the crony supply siders , defending the other. this is where it would really be funny to watch each and every person who votes for these parties, eat thier own socialist sht , and have it collapse. ...........from my boat, i would be laughing, like a little baby...
    3 Apr 2011, 11:49 PM Reply Like
  • rothyman
    , contributor
    Comments (126) | Send Message
     
    Hmm.. exactly.. 'watching'
    3 Apr 2011, 11:59 PM Reply Like
  • Asfakdavid
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Well written article. Thanks for sharing. Its content is very useful.
    www.healthproductrevie...
    4 Apr 2011, 12:45 AM Reply Like
  • Trever99
    , contributor
    Comments (105) | Send Message
     
    dismantle the FED... it's a joke and has no added value to the american people.

     

    It's a simple equation.. whatever they can do.. the government do without interest.

     

    Ironically if you were to tell the people of the USA (assuming they would understand) that Americans pay British bankers money to print US dollars... how do you think they would feel?

     

    I would assume mad...
    4 Apr 2011, 01:05 AM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    The usual lower brain fight or flee blah blah blah.

     

    As usual, the human species will muddle through.
    4 Apr 2011, 06:33 AM Reply Like
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