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Obama’s plan to cut $4T in cumulative deficits: a "moral case" for an "expansive vision"...

Obama’s plan to cut $4T in cumulative deficits: a "moral case" for an "expansive vision" of America that's a potential “positive” for U.S. credit quality and a reversal in the budget debate, or just more class warfare mixed with accounting gimmicks that avoids long-term reforms?
Comments (46)
  • SA Editor. Nice try. I'll pass.
    You can probably write the comments from the past comments.
    13 Apr 2011, 06:28 PM Reply Like
  • Agreed. This post is troll bait.


    SA: I thought you guys were professionals?
    13 Apr 2011, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • Be nice. They are just teasing us.
    13 Apr 2011, 07:41 PM Reply Like
  • right now the money is only worth what we say the money is worth. the rest of the world will just have to titrate their own economy to fully benefit from ours. if not, to hell with it all.
    13 Apr 2011, 09:49 PM Reply Like
  • Pick your spin. Good wrap from across the spectrum. Thanks.
    13 Apr 2011, 06:33 PM Reply Like
  • Its the Budget du jour.....another one next month I am have to keep in front of the cameras....
    13 Apr 2011, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • (Leading in the trolls)


    I vote for just more class warfare mixed with accounting gimmicks that avoids long-term reforms.


    I do give the president credit. He didn't call for a non-partisan committee to study the problem.


    And the delivery of this gem of a speech was scintillating--just poke Biden and ask him.
    13 Apr 2011, 06:42 PM Reply Like
  • Acutually thats exactly what he called for, a committee of 4 Dems and 4 GOP to present options for him to decide in a few weeks. I thought it a bit imperius, after all, the Senators are a separate and equal arm of govt and he was a bit off handed about it but that is his manner and I 'm sure they'll just ignore it anyway so there is no point. I thought that the speech in conjuction with the release of the report blaming the financial meltdown on Goldman Sachs by delivering misleading testimony in front of congress was setting the libretto of the campaign. Add the To each according to his need Marxian blah blah blah and the You dont want to take food out of the mouths of babes. totally over the top and guaranteed to go no where except perhaps to drive businesses out of the US. One other thing, it was of course an oversight but he didnt mention the word Jobs, not even once. What a dreary and predictable campaign this is going to be, ho hum... Lets see Paul Ryan and Carlos Gutierrez or Mitch Daniels and Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney and Michelle Maulken or some such coupling of steady, gravitas, strong and cerebral and someone latino or ethnic with some fire or experience would certainly make it a lot more interesting. You think?
    14 Apr 2011, 02:28 AM Reply Like
  • I like to root for a winner. Just Like GS and JPM did for Obama in Nov 2008 (That's where the money went)


    I will pick "Kick the Can Down the Road" on this one.


    If GS creates a synthetic security to trade that, I will go long,
    Maybe even leveraged 30:1 with TALF money.


    When in Rome, do as they do.
    13 Apr 2011, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • Don't choke on the smoke or crack your head on the mirrors.
    13 Apr 2011, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • No body wants to cut the debt.


    Republican Stratigy -- Spend less on poor and give tax break to rich.


    Democrat Statigy -- Spend more on poor and increase the tax on rich


    You need sensible stratigy -- Spend less and do not give tax break to rich.


    Then again why cut the bebt. I will rather lend my money to uncle sam than anybody else. It is much safer. You can not go wrong.
    13 Apr 2011, 08:17 PM Reply Like
  • @tigersam Spellcheck says "Strategy"


    Bond market apparently likes the speech. Dollar doing better too at the expense of Euro and other commodity currencies. Downtrend in bonds temporarily neutralized - although once the debt ceiling "debate" comes up, I think bonds should sell off again.
    13 Apr 2011, 09:10 PM Reply Like
  • I'm gonna pop some popcorn and get a drink and watch this thread tonight:-)
    13 Apr 2011, 08:25 PM Reply Like
  • but you can't tax the rich!! Dont you know that they are awesome and they create everything in this country!! Look at GE, paid 0% income tax, but look at all those jobs they created! Sure, those jobs were in China and India, but those people in those countries will soon need waiters and bartenders to work the chili's and TGIF's. Walmart and Mcdonalds will need employees in those countries as well, so we'll all have great international opportunities soon enough!
    13 Apr 2011, 08:27 PM Reply Like
  • Where is 7footmoose today? May be he is in hospital doing his neck surgeory.
    13 Apr 2011, 08:32 PM Reply Like
  • tigersam,
    I am watching this thread. BTW, the neck is fine thank you.
    14 Apr 2011, 06:50 AM Reply Like
  • 7footMoose,


    I apologies to you regarding my neck comments.
    15 Apr 2011, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • Thanks, but no offense taken. Have a great trading day.
    15 Apr 2011, 08:29 AM Reply Like
  • I don't care. I own MCD, KO and XOM.
    13 Apr 2011, 08:55 PM Reply Like
  • You do care. Because with this debate, people get thirsty, hungry and fill like driving around. They drink Coke, eat fatty food from MackyD and consume gas. So my friend you do care.
    13 Apr 2011, 09:05 PM Reply Like
  • "Moral cause"


    "Expansive vision"


    I was pretty sure those went out the window with the bank bailouts and the rescission of share, bond, and property holder rights in 2008.


    Does this mean we will see Dimon, Blankfein, Mozillo, Frank, Dodd, Paulson, and company in prison anytime soon?


    If not, quit blowing smoke.
    13 Apr 2011, 09:19 PM Reply Like
  • "Moral cause"


    The president is now Benny Hinn.
    13 Apr 2011, 10:19 PM Reply Like
  • Who knew? The president was also an anesthesiologist.


    13 Apr 2011, 10:22 PM Reply Like
    14 Apr 2011, 12:48 AM Reply Like
  • where is the financial reset button when you need it?


    Time to take the US$ out of the oven. It's done.
    13 Apr 2011, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • must...not...comment.


    The force is strong with this one.
    13 Apr 2011, 10:58 PM Reply Like
  • It sounded to me like a set of "principals" more than a plan.


    He wants to cut defense spending - so do I.


    He wants to reduce the spending on Medicare - so do I.


    He wants to reform the tax code - so do I.


    He wants to "preserve", "strengthen" social security - so do I.


    He wants to limit domestic spending - so do I.


    He says we have to tax the richest - I'm ambivalent but if all the above would happen they I'll say ok.


    Problem is, I believe him when he says he will raise taxes on the rich. I believe him when he says he won't allow Ryan's budget to pass. I believe him when he says he won't allow a change in approach to Medicare/Medicaid. But I don't believe he wants to actually do any of the difficult things that are necessary.


    I believe in compromise. Republicans don't want to cut the military and Democrats do. Fine. Democrats don't want to change the structure of social security, Republicans do. Should be fairly easy compromise - Cut an additional 200-300 Billion in Defense over the next 4 years, and raise the retirement age by 2 years and cut some of the bloat around the disability part of social security. Sounds like a pragmatic compromise that could save a Trillion or so a year.


    Want to raise taxes on the rich Democrats? Ok, but along with that we will cut some social programs to the level at which they will only provide benefits to the bottom 2-3% of our society. And we will cut 2, 3, 4 agencies from the Washington Bureaucracy and we will impose total real wage freezes (no step raises) on public employees for four years.


    Want to keep Medicare run by the government - ok, please propose some changes that might improve it. But we are going to give more control to the states on Medicaid. And we are going to break the teacher's union's grip on education and greatly reduce (or eliminate - see above) the department of education.


    That took all of about 5 minutes. I can't believe that the speech given today was the best the president could do. Where was an actual plan? Where was the proposal for compromise - I'll give in these areas if the Republicans give in these areas? Where was the real effort to educate the public as to the economic and social issues we face in the future due to our exploding debt levels?


    He approaches this like he's the professor and we are the eager students (with the exception of that one guy caught sleeping in class!). What he doesn't realize is that we aren't interested in lectures, we want leadership and real actions. Today could have been a huge step forward towards reaching compromises and enacting real deficit reduction (with the president getting much of the credit). Instead its just business as usual in Washington DC.
    13 Apr 2011, 11:28 PM Reply Like
  • davidbdc,
    I have an idea on this one:
    "I can't believe that the speech given today was the best the president could do. Where was an actual plan? Where was the proposal for compromise - I'll give in these areas if the Republicans give in these areas? Where was the real effort to educate the public as to the economic and social issues we face in the future due to our exploding debt levels?"


    The Teleprompter was broken or Bernanke wasn't available to give him the answers for those questions.
    13 Apr 2011, 11:43 PM Reply Like
  • He probably didn't suggest compromise because Republicans don't. They just say NO until they get their way........more tax cuts to the corporations and rich.


    Our exploding debt can be directly attributed to GW and his NOT SO FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, as well as, the NEOCONS that got us into an unnecessary war in Iraq which cost us hundreds of billions if not trillions.
    14 Apr 2011, 03:14 AM Reply Like
  • GW and the not so fiscal conservatives are near the front of the line when assigning blame for our debt level. Wars, new social programs, stupid increases in government spending on everything else. No question about it.


    Unfortunately, Obama and his big government liberals are also at the front of the line - and given the president's budget for this year I'd say they have gotten themselves the spot at the front of the line. I love it when I hear pundits on TV say its radical to cut this program or that program..... How radical is it to propose a budget with a 1.6 Trillion dollar deficit?


    And the problem for the American people is that there are too many of those not so fiscal conservatives in Washington, along with legions of tax and spend liberals...... and they are all only concerned with getting re-elected. As the details emerge of the 38 Billion cut agreed to last week, it appears that they resorted to more of the tired DC gimmicks rather than actually cut programs! When are these idiots going to learn that they aren't there to "say" fancy sounding things...... they are there to "Do!".... and if they aren't up to the task please resign. And what we need to do is to balance the damn budget!!
    14 Apr 2011, 01:02 PM Reply Like
  • I would argue that all politicians are doing what their constituents want. No politician wants a tax increase or a balanced budget because as soon as they try to accomplish that their political career is over even if it makes the most sense. The opposing democrat/republican uses it as ammunition that they're unfairly burdening the populace. It's an unfair strategy but it works every time. The same argument goes for trying to cut military expenditures.. you get painted as weak on terrorism.. even if that expenditure is for a 100 billion dollar stealth jet that's only good for dropping bombs farther than 10,000 miles away.


    Hence the perpetuation of uncontrolled US debt is inevitable. Crash is inevitable, and the last thing you're going to hear out of the politicians mouths are "There was nothing we could do."
    14 Apr 2011, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • Trever:
    I have to disagree. Democratic politicians have gotten themselves, in some cases, lifetime jobs raising taxes. They just raise taxes on other people than those voting them in.
    I seem to recall Obama got elected with a promise to raise taxes "on the rich".
    14 Apr 2011, 03:51 PM Reply Like
  • We had the same deficit during the bush years, just that war spending was "off balance sheet", i.e. off budget


    14 Apr 2011, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • I have an idea. Let's cut the federal budget by the sum total of the amount that all of the red states together receive annually over and above what they actually pay in.


    That should easily balance the budget.
    13 Apr 2011, 11:42 PM Reply Like
  • I believe you'll find there would be more support for that than you might think. A lot of those states get surpluses from farm subsidies. And I believe there is a lot of support for getting rid of all the farm subsidies that go to the big companies and to those not actually farming.


    Unfortunately I think you'll find that this would only cut the deficit by a few hundred billion dollars a year (far subsidies are about half of the total).


    We spend too much in virtually all areas and there have to be cuts to everything.
    14 Apr 2011, 01:04 PM Reply Like
  • Buy silver, guns/ammo and food.


    Tomorrow is one day closer to a significant financial correction.
    14 Apr 2011, 12:43 AM Reply Like
  • Isn’t it time we all agreed that allegations of incitement to class warfare are bandied about rather loosely too often by too many people that should know better.
    14 Apr 2011, 01:48 AM Reply Like
  • I agree when it comes to guns and ammo. But, class warfare has been conducted on the middle class for the past twenty or thirty years and it's accelerating every day. Well, ever since Reagan.
    14 Apr 2011, 03:17 AM Reply Like
  • The US needs to continue expand the defense budget 5% a year like in the last 10 years, in order to provide free oil routes to the world.


    The defense budget is still low at more than 800 billion a year, and cuts are needed in healthcare and eduction to give more room to defense spending.
    14 Apr 2011, 07:42 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt..


    I have many issues with your comments. But they're yours and I have to respect that.


    I would like to take your opinions just afew steps farther.. in hopes of enlightening all to the flaws of the argument.


    I think all police and fire departments should be disbanded... just like public education. We can all legally buy guns and protect ourselves. Why should we be forced to fund a bunch of people driving around in $100,000 dollar cars making $50-$90K per year. I own lots of guns.. I don't need their help. I'll extend this same argument to the military.


    Same with fire fighters. I have a well on my property and a nice big hose. I don't need their help and shouldn't be forced to pay one dime for any of their wages.


    Public health care should be banned. I exercise and eat properly.. why should I be forced to pay for heart surgery for a 40 year old who had a heart attack because he chose to smoke and eat poorly and not exercise. If they want to do that they can take their chances with their own money.. not mine.


    Further more.. we don't need public libaries, community centers, subsidizied public transportation, parks.. etc etc. etc.


    Oh yeah.. I drive a 4x4.. let the roads deteriorate.. we'll be able to cut taxes a ton if we do that.
    14 Apr 2011, 03:44 PM Reply Like
  • Yeah, I agree with all that. No sarc whatsoever. I would love to have a more government free society at all levels. Absolutely.


    911 is a joke. Cops are mostly(99% of the time) just revenue generators. They pull you over merely in order to feed the cubicle farm zoo animals back at central that work at the alphabets. The rest of their time is spent on social welfare programs. Do you watch COPS? That's all they do. Stop one drooling loser in a wifebeater from beating up his roomie. Let them brain each other. Its nature's way. And yes, I have a legal carry permit and a carry gun legally. I have been trained on how to use it and shoot it regularly. This is what used to be known as being responsible for yourself. I don't need a cop as much as I don't need a donut.


    Firefighters? They get cats out of trees. They also work on their bench press record and cuisine skills. Occasionally they pry at fatso out of a barco-lounger. Every once in awhile they actually put out a fire. But why? Its usually already tinder. Just let it go. That's what insurance is for.


    What else? How about a DMV filing fee? The clerk who wants you to pay it, snarling at you, only wants to take your money not for something real like road improvement but merely to pay all her other gang members that work behind her in the cubicle farm. Its for their pensions. Buy why have them at all if it is merely a self serving VIG? They have no real earnings and contribute nothing to society. Its all a scam. Pay your vehicle registration in order to feed the fat public scam. There's nothing there there.


    Healthcare is even worse. There's no Constitutional authority for it. Medicare robs someone else to pay for granny so she can keep buying Lotto scratchers and a pack of Kools. Do you understand that? The hospital is forced through a government cramdown to subsidize charity via medicare and then to offset that they raise premiums on everyone else. Its artificial intervention which creates price imbalances. Now an entire party, the DNC, uses it through the aegis of the AARP to buy votes through continued fear and threats.


    Prices would come down naturally if doctors were given the freedom to conduct their own practice without the govt. thugs.


    And, yes, that would lower the costs for those who used services less. If you were responsible and ate well, exercised etc. that would be reflected on your bill. Or do you think good behavior shouldn't be rewarded?


    And furthermore, we definitely don't need public libraries, community centers or BART, or parks for that matter.


    I do drive a 4x4. Roads could be maintained by the states through what was supposed to be a gasoline tax that has been robbed over the years from the general fund. Now they just take the tax that was used for that and use it elsewhere.


    Do you have any other arguments you'd like me to destroy?


    Oh yeah, better save this. SA just deleted my other comment. I guess people have a hard time debating around here. LOL.
    14 Apr 2011, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • Try Seasteading..
    14 Apr 2011, 04:49 PM Reply Like
  • I like the idea, but I'm more of a land dweller. Now homesteading...



    Much more in tune with our nation's historical roots of simple living, removing one's self off the grid, unwinding the federal tentacles of social programs/taxation. Each person = self sustained unit.


    To bridge the gap, the church was more involved, but that was a local matter and mostly without coercion. It was also better equipped to handle fraud, abuse and waste as the individual was also treated as a person and not a number.


    Votes could not be won anymore (or gamed) based on promises of more 'free shit'.
    14 Apr 2011, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • just some Ayn Rand humor
    14 Apr 2011, 05:32 PM Reply Like
  • This is much better.


    14 Apr 2011, 05:44 PM Reply Like
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