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Pres. Obama reportedly won't be making a new budget offer to Republicans today, and will instead...

Pres. Obama reportedly won't be making a new budget offer to Republicans today, and will instead reiterate last week's proposal. Stocks have tanked on the news. S&P -1%. Dow -1.1%. NASDAQ -0.7%.
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Comments (97)
  • Matthew Lewis
    , contributor
    Comments (346) | Send Message
     
    Playing hardball.
    28 Dec 2012, 03:56 PM Reply Like
  • Stone Fox Capital
    , contributor
    Comments (6179) | Send Message
     
    Did you really expect anything else with this President? He has zero business sense and even common sense. Oddly he thinks this will help his legacy though it will only make him look foolish yet again.
    28 Dec 2012, 03:57 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Good for him. He knows he has the upper hand here.
    28 Dec 2012, 03:58 PM Reply Like
  • alppuccino
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Oh yes. Or to say it another way: "Good for him, he's a criminal with a gun in a gun-free zone!"

     

    Doesn't sound so honorable that way, does it?
    28 Dec 2012, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    No, he is just a politician with huge public support.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Macro,

     

    Did we follow the same elections? I saw a president winning by barely 2% against a much weaker opponent with extremely archaic and conservative propositions. Americans weren't voting for Obama, they were voting against Romney. It's possible that your interpretation has been different, though...
    28 Dec 2012, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    I am referring to the polls that shows even Republicans want taxes to go up on the rich.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • Bear Bait
    , contributor
    Comments (672) | Send Message
     
    If you loose the Super Bowl by only two points, do you get to share any the glory or are you still just the loser. Face it you lost....to the victor go the spoils and as macro says public support (about 3 to 1) favor the President.
    28 Dec 2012, 05:09 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    So the House was won by the Republicans and they are saying pound sand.

     

    You must support them because that is your logic.

     

    It is "lose" not "loose."
    28 Dec 2012, 05:15 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Macro,

     

    Raising taxes to the wealthy people won't necessary increase the tax income for the country. It's just a populist move. Wealthy people pay more taxes no matter what. If your revenue is $90k a year and you pay a 30% tax, you pay $27k a year, while if you earn $1m and pay the exact same 30% of taxes it makes $300k a year for the government. That's much more productive, equal and more democratic to make everyone pay the same percentage. It's a whole different story when a state is trying to get through a crisis.
    According to CNBC Mr Obama's project to increase taxes for families earning over $250k a year would bring some extra $40b a year. That's an extremely symbolic amount regarding the $16 trillions debt that the United States are facing right now. So yes, since I personally pay 55% of taxes a year (I live in Belgium), I suppose that wealthy people won't die if they start paying 39%, but it won't reduce the deficit. What bothers me, is that Mr Obama doesn't want to make any concessions by reducing the spendings and that is the main point here. Mr Obama is more interested in entering the history as being not only the first Black President, but also as the President who put in place the ridiculous European social system in the United States, while the country is completely broke. Mr Obama has his personal time scheme and so he's pushing all these reforms during a financial crisis without any regards for the economy.
    28 Dec 2012, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    I am not sure where you get your facts from but Obama offered humongous spending cuts. See, it is very hard to debate this issue if you have no interest in the actual facts. Anyway, I think taxes on the rich can easily go up to 80-90% marginal rate. The economy boomed in the 50's when rates were that high. As for flat taxes, it is very hard to debate that when the other party doesn't understand the role a marginal dollar pays when you are earning $40k vs. $40M.
    28 Dec 2012, 05:37 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Macro,

     

    In fifties people were paying everything in cash, there wasn't the same fiscal control over the population, mafia was detaining most of the wealth and that's why the government had to put such a high tax rate. The world is also much more open than in fifties so people can simply bag their stuff and leave to another country offering a more attractive rate. The economic boom in fifties had an extremely complex mix with the end of WW2, Baby boom, Marshall's Plan and the Keynesian Theory still had sense and was used wisely back than. You can study the situation in France, where the Government is going to set a 75% tax for wealthy people. A friend of mine owns a small independent Real Estate agency in Brussels and this year he sells 35-60 houses a month to French families at a price starting at €1,2m. I have an economical degree and I'm perfectly aware of the marginal tax and average tax. Nevertheless, the classic theory doesn't always fit to the modern reality. If the taxes are outsourced, higher taxes doesn't benefit the society at all.

     

    Regarding the spendings, Obama offered a $400b spendings cut, while Republicans offered to cut $1,2 trillion, which is much more close to the reality. When a State has enough to live just during 7-8 months a year, do you really think that cutting 400 billions is "humongous"? If the Administration weren't borrowing that money, this amount would have been really huge, but since the country lives at credit, it's just ridiculous and it doesn't makes the financial situation any better. You can't hope that the debt would just vanish one day. There are many factors to that situation, but low personal savings and a negative current operations balance are simply dramatic.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Davidoff, Austerity policies have really done wonders in the EU zone, no? I am happy that we have a Govt that actually cares more about the people doing well than submitting to extreme right economic orthodoxy that is ruining Europe.

     

    To each his or her own. I like it here in the USA.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:27 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Macro,

     

    I'm sorry to tell you that but for a macroeconomist you have a particularly narrow analysis. And to be honest, I don't know what extreme right you are talking about. We live under a socialist European Government, which means high taxes for the wealthy, zero competitively and entrepreneurship for the businesses and free social care for the poor (often without citizenship). You can't speak about the EU as one single economical entity. Every country lives the austerity differently. Germany has been living in auterity for decades, they call it financial discipline. Of course, countries like Greece, Spain or Italy going through a hard period, but it's simply a consequence of their unconsidered spendings, lack of regulations and public money thefts by their politicians.
    Now, as you know, to go through a crisis you have two commonly admitted options. Either you use a Keynesian theory and you increase the public spendings, either you apply the austerity measures. While the EU choose the austerity, the US, led by President Obama borrowed trillions in order to inject that money into economy provoking a huge inflation and a low artificial growth. Meanwhile the EU had a barely zero rate growth during the same period, but they held their deficit steady. Both systems showed their limits so I think that the solution might be a mix of the two technics. Anyhow, you can't borrow forever without any considerations for the future. Every cent that the Western countries borrow to China is borrowed by China from other countries. Today China has a record debt of 208% of its GDP, a huge personal debt among its citizens and a gigantic debt at its financial system (banks and funds). It's just the first visible consequence of the Western financial crisis. You just can't make the economy better without making significant budgetary cuts especially when you know that the central banks of the countries you borrow your money from, are flooding the world economy with cash in order to give a credit. They just postpone another huge world financial crisis and put it on someone else's shoulders. The issue is that today this coming crisis is above each and everyone of us and every country is going to be concerned. Raising the taxes is the most insignificant of all the issues, that our governments are facing.
    28 Dec 2012, 07:50 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Davidoff,

     

    Let's just get some facts straight first.

     

    1) Germany has a debt to GDP ratio almost matching the USA (85% vs. 105%). So much for fiscal responsibility.
    2) USA has no huge inflation.
    3) China has about 25% debt to GDP ratio not 208%. That is Japan not China.
    4) Even the ECB has finally realized that accomodative monetary policy is needed and they are now taking up a ZIRP as well. A dollar late and a day short. People suffered needlessly with 20%+ unemployment.

     

    Finally, if you like to get huge unemployment from austerity programs, stay in EU. You are not going to get that in the USA.
    28 Dec 2012, 08:10 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    1. If a 105% debt is matching 85% than we have nothing else to say to each other. A 20% difference represents over 40 years of financial discipline without even considering a possibility of a financial crisis. I'd really like to know where did you get your economical degree, cause I rarely saw such a biased economist. You are playing with figures...
    2. Every Western country has a huge inflation, not just the US. It turns between 1,8 and 2,2% a year depending of the country, which is abnormal for a developed country.
    3.Accroding to Bloomberg Newsweek and many other international journals, like for example the Belgian journal "Echo", the real China's debt goes around 200% of its GDP if you put together the National debt, the debt of its national banks, financial institutions, national industries and national companies. If you want to go to the strict economical sense of the debt you can also add the debt of Chinese families, which is also extremely high. And so, it goes much much higher than the official 41% of the GDP.
    4. You can't compare European and American employment, the two systems are completely different. For instance, there are minimal salaries in Europe, that go around 950€ (after taxes) a month for the Western EU, so you can't hire anyone for a lower salary. The other difference, is that when you hire someone, you have to pay 100% of the salary of your employee to the social service to pay his social cover. So basically you pay 200% to every employee. The other thing is that we have many voluntarily unemployed people. It means, that instead of working to earn 1000€ a month, they prefer not to work in order to get 850€ a month from the social services, without doing anything. That situation can last years. So it's the whole social system that is corrupted and austerity is just a consequence of decades of social mismanagements, that Democrats are trying to set in the US.
    That's for the Western countries, in Southern countries the situation is completely different. They misused the money that EU granted to them and that money fed a huge financial crisis in these countries.
    There is no any kind of centralization in EU crisis. Every country is facing different issues and different causes put them in the crisis. Personally, I'm in favor of austerity. If EU could regulate countries like Greece or Spain, austerity might have worked better. Accommodative monetary policy might help western european countries like France, Germany, Belgium, Holland... but certainly not the Southern countries.
    Anyhow, the United States faced a much harsher unemployment than Europe a couple of years ago. Now it seems to be settled. However, except Germany, nowhere else employers are allowed to reduce their employees salaries like they do in the US. With such a low salary, Americans can hardly be called "employed".
    28 Dec 2012, 08:56 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Davidoff,

     

    I think this discussion is fruitless. You consider a 2% inflation to be massive inflation. Which, frankly, is even beyond the orthodoxy of the far right economics. I have never, ever heard of any mainstream economist claiming that 2% inflation is massive inflation. I have no idea where you are getting this.

     

    As for the rest, again I don't know what to say. for you, 85% debt to GDP ratio is no big deal and reflects fiscal prudence. Well, most austerity advocates would claim anything more than 50% debt to GDP ratio is imprudent. But hey, this is Germany, so they must be right.

     

    Then, you use a strange measure for China, by which measure Germany's debt to GDP ratio is probably 500%. You have to use a standard definition is you are to engage in economic debates. you can't use one for Germany and one for China. Reality is using the same metric China's debt to GDP ratio is half that of Germany.

     

    Finally, I do not care about the EU. They can solve their problem on their own, or not. I just want no ECB policies coming stateside. It is clear that the ECB doesn't care about creating jobs. It cares about keeping inflation low.

     

    But the Fed has a dual mandate, to create job while managing inflation. The Fed has done superbly in lowering unemployment over the past 4 years. At the current policy, it will get USA close to the long term average of 5-6% unemployment in another 4 years through massive liquidity injection. In the process, it will monetize a large part of the Federal debt so that debt to GDP ratio will automatically improve. In addition, if that creates inflation, since the Fed will pay back with inflated dollars, in real terms the debt to GDP ratio will fall even more.

     

    I am not going to get into a debate with you about what meets your definition of employment. I would just like to remind you that USA is one of the richest counties in the world in per capita GDP.

     

    Anyway, bottom line, as long as you believe 2% inflation is massive inflation, we have nothing to talk about.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:17 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Federal debt plus unfunded obligation is around $100 Trillion. That is the core issue that needs to be solved or it will run everything else off the road.

     

    Nitpick all you want on data point A versus B but our Federal government is massively over committed. The states in aggregate are another $2 Trillion but that looks great next to the Fed Gov.

     

    There are no good options when an entity is over leveraged to this degree and wants to leverage up more. The next 30 to 50 years will be a waste just like the last 10.

     

    Corporations look great by comparison and are investing overseas like crazy to diversify their risk and participate in higher growth regions.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Short reply, I'm tired of arguing with you...

     

    2% of inflation isn't "huge" as long as you don't think about it as concerning your money. 2% of you capital fleeing year after year, while your money is staying in you pocket and you think it's ok? Well, good for you, you must be either very rich, or very stupid... That might answer my question : "Anyway, bottom line, as long as you believe 2% inflation is massive inflation, we have nothing to talk about." - For me a normal inflation rate is 0,9-1,2%.

     

    Regarding the debt, I think you misunderstood me. Read my statement again. You claimed that 105% debt matches 85% debt, it's simply untrue. In order to get the debt down by 20%, the United States, as any other other country, will have to lead an extremely conservative financial policy, have a steady growth, no deficit and maybe in 40 years, without any new crisis they might get to 85% of the GDP.

     

    Regarding China, very few countries nationalize companies, banks, and industries like China does. What China presents as a national debt, is the Government's debt. However they don't announce how much their national banks borrow as a national debt. While these national banks lend cash to the national companies and industries. There is no any tricky economical formula, just a governmental scheme hiding the real Chinese national debt. So, no, Germany's national debt rate can't be 500%, since they don't own any nationalized indebted companies, nor banks.

     

    I agree with you that Fed is doing a good job and I'm very glad for the US, hope they will get wealthier and less indebted, though.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:40 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    This $100 Trillion obligation is against an income stream of how much? People love to talk about the debt, but they never talk about the GDP that goes with it, and the power of the Federal govt to generate revenue through taxation. This is like saying that someone has a $5M loan, while ignoring that their income may be a million each year, so they can easily pay it off.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:51 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Davidoff, please. 20% of national debt for the USA in $3T. The USA can just cut military spending by half a trillion each year and pay this off in less than 10 years. Extremely conservative fiscal policy? You kidding me?

     

    Good luck with your 1% inflation. May you find it in Japan. That should do wonders to your investments. Me? I will keep getting 10%+ returns and 2% inflation, and be happy with it. I am not retired and not in capital protection mode.

     

    Now write to your elected representatives to spank the ECB till it learns something from the Feds. Inflation needs to go up in EU if there is to be more employment.

     

    As for China, I am not into conspiracy theories.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:55 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    Obama wants to go over the cliff is what it means. He single-handedly cost the market several hundred billion in market cap in 15 minutes.

     

    What's good for Obama is bad for America and vice versa.

     

    What America needs is for Obama to cut spending and protect taxpayers, not add more spending and rape taxpayers.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:15 AM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    There is no glory, just more economic malfeasance and incompetence at the hand of the worst President of our lifetimes.

     

    We increased spending by $1.3 trillion under Obama and the Democrats, to $3.8 trillion a year from $2.5 trillion in FY 2007. Obama BOUGHT his public support by spending money we dont have to increase govt dependency. Obama won with the lowest form of campaign populist BS and since the numbers dont add up, he's setting up the Republicans to be the patsy's for his failure to square the circle... Obama's always about blaming someone else, and will never admit he owns the $6 trillion in debt he added.

     

    Obama is doing what he can to bankrupt the treasury and we have idiots out there who actually approve of this insanity.

     

    "you still just the loser. Face it you lost"
    AMERICA lost.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:22 AM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    " I am not sure where you get your facts from but Obama offered humongous spending cuts"

     

    LOLOLOLOL. That's a lie. We spent $3.8 trillion last year ... Obama wants that to INCREASE EVERY YEAR after this.
    Obama has the Obamacare $2.5 trillion spending - will he repeal it? NOPE. Obama's proposal INCREASED spending, undid spending cuts that were already agreed, and threw in some 'stimulus' additions NOT in the budget. Obama's budget already sets us up for $8 trillion in more debt by 2020, on top of the $6 trillion in debt.

     

    "Anyway, I think taxes on the rich can easily go up to 80-90% marginal rate."
    Well, that's 2 things you believe that are nonsense. I guess I'll have to ignore your advice. You are living on another planet.

     

    "The economy boomed in the 50's when rates..." still hurt the economy (and boomed after JFK cut them) but TOTAL GOVT TAXES AND SPENDING WERE LOWER. We had miniscule soc sec taxes and not medicare taxes, lower corporate rates and MANY LOOPHOLES - like NO AMT! - so total taxes for almost all Americans was LESS. Total income tax revenue was about 9% of GDP, no higher than it is today UNDER THE GWBUSH RATES.

     

    "See, it is very hard to debate this issue if you have no interest in the actual facts"
    Indeed. your are 100% wrong on your 'facts'.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:29 AM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    " Austerity policies have really done wonders in the EU zone, no?"

     

    Higher taxes damages economic activity and growth. That's the cause of most 'austerity' failures - increasing taxes backfires.
    Obamacare's higher taxes will damage economic activity and growth.
    Obama's higher tax rates on income will damage economic activity and growth.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:31 AM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Macro,

     

    "please. 20% of national debt for the USA in $3T. The USA can just cut military spending by half a trillion each year and pay this off in less than 10 years. Extremely conservative fiscal policy? You kidding me?"

     

    Now I'm convinced that you've never even studied economy! You
    have probably never been in college and you have an extreme limited economical knowledge. A true macroeconomist wouldn't even dare say such a nonsense! Deficit and budgetary discipline are part of the first year macroeconomy classes, every freshman knows these formulas. You're just another wanna-be professional economist coming to a wrong site. What a waste of time talking to you, kid!

     

    PS: ECB and any Eurocrat in EU aren't elected by European citizens, they are appointed by EU Governments. I can hardly believe that you don't even know that...
    29 Dec 2012, 05:18 AM Reply Like
  • bbrady413
    , contributor
    Comments (757) | Send Message
     
    Macro, you obviously enjoy looking at diluted facts without any inclination of the reality of the situation.

     

    While the Fed is inflating our dollars and shoveling more dirt into the same hole it dug it out of, the unemployment picture hasn't really improved. I know you're gonna throw the U3 nonsense at me, but lets face it, that number isn't going down each month because there are hundreds of thousands of jobs being created, its going down because so many people are dropping out of the work force. Whats our job creation moving average, maybe about 140,000 per month? That isn't even enough to keep up with population growth. If everybody quits their job and stops looking for work and unemployment goes to zero, but food stamp participation increases to 100%, should we be celebrating? I think not. In the meantime, we have the Fed keeping interest rates as low as possible, trying (unsuccessfully) to push out cheap dollars as fast as they can print them, but nobody will lend them. While they're doing this, savers are being punished. I can park my money in a savings account, and that doesn't even come close to keeping pace with inflation. Thanks again Fed, by practicing self-austerity, I'm actually losing money. Now, if the banks do ever start lending money again, all that will do is create another 2008esque asset bubble, which will inevitably burst.

     

    So tell me, what part of your Fed success fantasy is actually successful?
    29 Dec 2012, 08:30 AM Reply Like
  • barleycapital
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    C'mon, get it sorted America!
    28 Dec 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2580) | Send Message
     
    When will politicians learn that they are elected to lead, not to campaign until the next election?
    28 Dec 2012, 03:59 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    " When will politicians learn that they are elected to lead, not to campaign until the next election? "

     

    Uhhhhh, Obama has never been a good President, just a good campaigner. He got re-elected. So now we the fool voters have trained up politicians to be campaigners not leaders.
    That is why we are in the mess we are in - we reward the wrong behavior in politicians.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:36 AM Reply Like
  • Bear Bait
    , contributor
    Comments (672) | Send Message
     
    He should play hardball. Dems got the pop vote and polls show the majority of even Republicans support increased taxes on the wealthy. The Dim witted T'baggers are cutting their own throats. Which is fine with me. I can't wait until they are footnote in the history books. They have done more damage to this country than any terrorist group. Good riddance!
    28 Dec 2012, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    The Tea Party Patriots are the best thing that has happened to this country since Newt Gingrich and his Govt shutdown.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    If they are T'baggers are you and other libs T'baggees? Enjoying it much? BTW. History will only remember who was president (who just gave federal workers a pay raise on the back of the middle class) not who was in congress.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:07 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    In other words, the Tea Party Patriots have a convenient fall guy so they can screw up the economy as much as they want?
    28 Dec 2012, 04:13 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    What a world to live in where demanding the gov't show fiscal responsibility before it ends up like Greece, Spain, Italy, California, etc is somehow considered evil.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:20 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    I am all for the govt showing fiscal responsibility. Lets raise taxes to close the deficit.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:22 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Taxes on rich won't help. Do a little research on taxes and rate of gov't spending. Very simple.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    So I should do research to prove your point? ROFL.

     

    You prove it.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2580) | Send Message
     
    Ok Macro, please explain how the government will raise taxes the $1+ trillion per year to close the deficit, citing which taxes will be raised, and how much each increase will raise. Everything I've read, including what Obama has said, have said we need to raise taxes and cut spending. Since you apparently have another means to close the deficit with only tax increases, I'd love to hear it. As a starting point, I'll even throw out this figures, saying that letting the tax cuts expire on the $250k+ crowd will raise revenue by roughly $50 billion a year.

     

    http://bit.ly/Vmw7rQ
    28 Dec 2012, 05:06 PM Reply Like
  • Brian Bobbitt
    , contributor
    Comments (1905) | Send Message
     
    Does anyone here have a clue what our constitution says? It is illegal to tax one group of Americans different from others. It also says it is illegal to give one group of Americans ( like Congress ) a different benefit than others. (health plans) Our lawmakers are totally out of control and need to be reigned in. Especially the President who has signed hundreds of presidential edicts waiting to come into law when certain things happen. I do not like this at all. When are Americans going to require that our lawmakers obey the law. These offers and counter offers and Obamacare's are ILLEGAL!
    Capt. Brian
    The Lost Navigator
    28 Dec 2012, 05:17 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Personally, I would cut spending too, but only defense spending by about $550B so that USA still spends more than China but not by a ridiculous margin. Then, as the economy improves, about $200B in social safety net payments will go away e.g., unemployment benefits. So I only need to raise $250B in taxes, right? It's easy. The top 5% pay about 65% of all income taxes today, or about $700B. Raise their tax burden by 15%, starting low, and going sharply up with the high income brackets. That raises about $100B. As for the rest, remove the cap on payroll taxes and means test social security and medicare. Voila!
    28 Dec 2012, 05:42 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    The Constitution says that!? Whoa Brian, you bring a case to the US Supreme Court!

     

    By the way, where did you hear that from? Rush or Hannity or the other idiots on right wing media?
    28 Dec 2012, 05:44 PM Reply Like
  • Brian Bobbitt
    , contributor
    Comments (1905) | Send Message
     
    Will check my sources. Always hope my gloomy statements are wrong. But check the debt clock, http://bit.ly/5BsyVl and no matter what is legal or illegal, how to run a country remains the same. Spend too much and you are toast. There are two ways to ruin, take over, or defeat a country, in fact are, the sword, or debt. Either will work.

     

    The requests of both parties are not even band aids. Look at how many taxpayers there are, and the debt. Do some math and you tell me how we are to manage this mess. The real unfunded debt is in the lower right hand corner. and it is over 121 Tttttrillion dollars. Divide that by the number of taxpayers, 144 million or so, and that means that every taxpayer, (as they come and go) owe now, a mere 1,061,403.50 PER TAXPAYER. Do you have that much to contribute so America can be solvent?

     

    To save your pencil lead, that is a current debt, (forget the unfunded amount) of 184,000.00 per taxpayer. I am not including all Americans because babies and some folks don't pay taxes. ONLY one third of Americans pay income tax.

     

    I might add, that the average American has less than $6000.00 in savings.

     

    I say, we are headed for the printing press to pay bills, and the taxpayer doesn't have one, but the FED does. When the dust clears a year from now, check the price of gold. I will insert here, as I said I might do in an earlier forecast (comment) here on SA, and if anyone can shoot holes in the bucket so it doesn't hold water, that would be wonderful. But I see inflation coming, and without huge cuts i spending in non essential areas, the fiscal cliff we keep worrying about will be insignificant compared to the real re-alignment that must occur, should America expect to survive in its present state.

     

    here is my insert.

     

    The Coffee Shop sees huge disparity in opinions as to the future price of silver and gold. Silver seems to be the main focus of attention of the usual investor which ignores precious metals. Although PM's seem to still be the black sheep of investors, somehow its price and movements are more frequent visitors to the coffee shop's wagging tongues than in the past. In fact, more frequent than ever before. So, with that, I suspect that perhaps the worm is turning. Perhaps worries regarding the fiscal cliff is actually more real than the Mayan Calendar or the Y2K event. It appears that worries about the FED creating inflation by printing money to cover our governments spending is much more real than the alignment of stars creating an end of the world scenario. I for one, am accumulating silver slowly and with planning and intent. I am not buying with both hands, and am keeping the majority of my shopping money available for when I feel the bottom has been seen. I think that $26.26 in silver, and $1,626.00 in gold is the bottom. I feel we will not see significant price movement up until that level is hit. I also think that level will not be breached on a significant value, and will not close below those levels on any basis you want. Be it moving averages, daily price, weekly, monthly or perhaps even hourly close. I feel buyers will show up constantly as those levels are approached. Should the PM's (precious metals) get within 5 - 10% of that level, I would begin to buy, heavier as my limits are approached. I should think also that numismatic coins should be purchased with great strength in here, as accumulating wealth in small spaces, will be the way to weather the financial storm coming. I do not believe in the destruction of the dollar, just lowering purchasing power. I do not expect the destruction of America, but the raising of our profile in international financials. We are beginning to bring manufacturing home due to financial factors now infecting our adversaries ( financially speaking ). They are beginning to suffer growing pains as we did. All of the debt plaguing us, our inflation is about to kick in. During 2012 I suspect silver to double in price, and perhaps even go to a quiet closing, (0ne you can catch to sell into) $100 per ounce. $60 for sure.
    Hope am totally wrong, bet I'm not.
    Good luck, and may God bless us, everyone.

     

    Capt. Brian
    The Lost Navigator
    NOTE: The mines are going to continue to feel the same economic dragons as Macy's and K Mart. They will have payrolls, insurance, and rising costs. A nice shiny silver eagle will have none of those costs constantly working against its value. I own 100 shares of GDXJ and am not selling it. I also look at one share as one ounce of silver as I do my SLV and SIVR. I do not buy any PM stock or instrument that does not equal a price of the underlying metal, as it leads to criminal activity to strip your pockets clean of all including the lint. Just a word to the wise. Get the silver eagles and perhaps you may look at palladium. I recently bought my 1st Pd coin.
    NOTE: I am going to copy this comment to a notepad, and likely use it in the future as a reference as I am sure my attitude won't change. Wish I was selling a newsletter with this comment.

     

    Lastly, to put this in focus, in reality, the Obama Tax Cuts proposed would be the same as you cutting 1 35,000th of your spending, or to focus even more, use one postage stamp to pay two bills, would equal the spending cuts proposed by Democrats. Tax increases will only hurt the people who work for money, not those who wait for welfare checks. I do not include social security tax payers, as they have already paid taxes on the income they got, gave some to the US Government to hold, use and give some back. Why taxpayers submit to the financial beating of paying taxes on their own money being returned is a mystery to me. We are totally stupid.

     

    Anyway, this comment is long enough, but not nearly as comprehensive as it could or should be.
    Capt. Brian
    The Lost Navigator

     

    PS Did I mention I am gonna buy more Silver?
    28 Dec 2012, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Brian

     

    Macro Investor appears to be a political hack who read Cliff Notes on Economics and Paul Krugman and is lapping up standard fare like a left wing lap dogs.

     

    Just another in a long line of political loyalists wishing as hard as they can that what the believe is reality.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:36 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    LOL. I actually am in disagreement with Krugman on the fiscal cliff issue. I think that spending shouldn't be cut, and taxes shouldn't be raised either. I am just plain old greedy, whatever is good for the economy and the market is good for me.

     

    Anyway, Krugman has been far more right than wrong these past years. Must be frustrating for the Lafferites.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:56 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    " The Dim witted T'baggers are cutting their own throats. Which is fine with me. I can't wait until they are footnote in the history books"

     

    Why? They warned America that we cant afford to spend money we dont have, that unlimited Govt is corrupt government, and that the people should rule the govt, not the govt rule the people.

     

    So you hate common sense patriots who want to save America for bankruptcy? I guess you'll be happier when America has $24 trillion in debt in 2020 and our healthcare and entitlement systems collapse under the weight of unaffordable obligations.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:38 AM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    Obama and the Democrats increased spending by $1.3 trillion from 2007 to 2011, going from $2.5 trillion to $3.8 trillion per year in spending.

     

    Over-spending is the problem. The only solution is to cut spending.
    Higher taxes = more misery and economic malaise.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:41 AM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    "So I should do research to prove your point? ROFL."

     

    No, you should do research to correct your manifest and obvious fallacies, non-facts, errors etc. You should do research and learn what's really going on so you dont pollute this place with economic ignorance. It's shamefully obvious you dont even know Federal budget trends and facts. Spending / GDP is at the highest peacetime level ever.

     

    Increasing taxes to pay for that massive over-spending would spiral us into a depression.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:45 AM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    "Macro Investor appears to be a political hack who read Cliff Notes on Economics and Paul Krugman and is lapping up standard fare like a left wing lap dogs."

     

    Correct. Political hackery and massive mis-statement of what is really going on.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:48 AM Reply Like
  • Mike Maher
    , contributor
    Comments (2580) | Send Message
     
    You sound like a typical politician. Cut defense spending in half, come up with another 200 billion in "savings" from not spending as the economy gets better, $100 billion in taxes on the rich, even though every proposal only raises taxes on them by $50 bil, and another $150 bil out gimmicks. Way to provide a plan that would never be agreed upon by the President, let alone the House.
    29 Dec 2012, 04:53 AM Reply Like
  • cash
    , contributor
    Comments (464) | Send Message
     
    Why is everybody so glum? This is good news if it sticks - looks like the story changes every half an hour! Cliff is good for the long term. Let us pay the dues now and take care of business so our children can still make a future in this country
    28 Dec 2012, 04:04 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Cliff won't happen. Republicans will fold soon. Obama is putting nice pressure here.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Don't be so sure.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Too late. Thanks to Barry todays college graduates will have a lower standard of living than previous generations..when they move out of their parents home. The irony? They voted for Obama and they will be the ones who will be supporting and paying the bills for the 50+ older bracket (health care, retirement,etc) who voted for Romney. Thanks guys.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Somehow we forget when the recession started, under Bush.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:39 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (306) | Send Message
     
    Macro,

     

    Somehow people forget who untied bank's hands and removed the whole banking regulation system that was in place since the great depression... Wasn't it Mr Clinton?
    28 Dec 2012, 04:56 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    I will give you that. Deregulation was a really stupid thing to do. Too bad Clinton went with the Republicans in the Congress on that one. At least Obama is more pro-regulation. It wasn't like Bush was going to fix it.
    28 Dec 2012, 05:00 PM Reply Like
  • Brian Bobbitt
    , contributor
    Comments (1905) | Send Message
     
    Observing and commenting on reality is not being 'glum'. It is merely reacting to the facts as they are presented. Being glum or elated is a result of what your perception of the future will be. I perceive the financial future of America, on its present path, ain't pretty. You look thru rose colored glasses or clear lenses whichever you feel better with. Polarized lenses shows you what is, not what might be. Kind of like the story "A Christmas Carol'. Which do you prefer to live in, the past, present, or future. I say, not fixing present problems is procrastination, and I feel procrastination is living in the past, ignoring the present, and ruining the future.
    Listening to the news reminds me of the Tower of Babble (or Babel or whatever, ) you get the idea.

     

    Capt. Brian
    The Lost Navigator
    28 Dec 2012, 06:44 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Got it. America is doomed. We better cut Social Security and Medicare while there is still time and throw gradma on the street to die from lack of medical help.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    Somehow we have idiots blaming a guy who retired 4 years ago for our current economic malaise. Our future lower standard of living will NOT be due to the recessions that are periodic in our economy, but the calamity of massive debt, and the worst record of debt addition is held by Obama.

     

    "Thanks to Barry todays college graduates will have a lower standard of living than previous generations."

     

    Exactly so.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:58 AM Reply Like
  • bbro
    , contributor
    Comments (9738) | Send Message
     
    I smell opportunity....
    28 Dec 2012, 04:08 PM Reply Like
  • kyleg17
    , contributor
    Comments (174) | Send Message
     
    Selloff of 10% on the way
    28 Dec 2012, 04:13 PM Reply Like
  • yliu54
    , contributor
    Comments (170) | Send Message
     
    Every time the markets plunge, I know democrats are making speeches..
    28 Dec 2012, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • Matthew Lewis
    , contributor
    Comments (346) | Send Message
     
    This will be interesting. I agree that Obama has more leverage here, but can't help but think he is over playing his hand.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:26 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    Tax cuts are easy to retro. The cutting cuts for the 47% takers that Barry wants to avoid..not so much.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:31 PM Reply Like
  • Venerability
    , contributor
    Comments (3048) | Send Message
     
    Incredible silliness!

     

    He is not making an offer TODAY, because House members will not be back in town en masse until late tonight or early tomorrow.

     

    The PPTs allowed an "orderly rout" today, and it has been orderly in the extreme, possibly with very few other than major Market Makers participating at all.

     

    The odds are still with a significant but non-comprehensive deal by the deadline - i.e. preserved cuts up to $250,000, extension of a key benefits and spending necessities, everything else postponed until a slightly Kinder, Gentler GOP Caucus can be sworn in.

     

    Sideline money of all kinds champing at the bit to come back into the Market, and it will start to do so by next week.

     

    Contract turnovers in the commodities. PM stocks and Energy stocks have actually performed in very orderly fashion, as have most of the Industrials and Financials. These should be the leaders in a combo Relief-Delayed Santa Rally starting in Europe on Monday.

     

    Let's see if the above is totally correct. I believe it is.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:29 PM Reply Like
  • jwbrewer
    , contributor
    Comments (317) | Send Message
     
    3 o'clock meeting with leaders today.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • Zeus2012
    , contributor
    Comments (704) | Send Message
     
    Kind of annoying with all these "partisan" comments. Thought this is suppose to be about economics (and not a replica of FOX or MSNBC blogs).

     

    I agree with one of the commenter about opportunities in the upcoming market volatility, especially with the Fed looking to print over $1 trillion over the next year and thus taking out any potential "tail risk" in the market.

     

    Got my shopping list together. Maybe Santa will make an appearance this year afterall.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • barleycapital
    , contributor
    Comments (158) | Send Message
     
    Well said Zeus, too many partisan comments, which really just cancel each other out. leaving more constructive comments...
    28 Dec 2012, 04:45 PM Reply Like
  • SoldHigh
    , contributor
    Comments (1013) | Send Message
     
    50% of the fools in country voted for Barack "Cliff" Obama - now they're getting the incompetence they voted for.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    How does it feel to live in a country where the majority are fools?
    28 Dec 2012, 04:41 PM Reply Like
  • robertlgriffin
    , contributor
    Comments (262) | Send Message
     
    MI--They aren't fools; rather, they voted for continuing their benefits. The reason Romney didn't get elected was because he said he was going to put America back to work, you know, have more people pulling the wagon rather than being in the wagon. This is not what the people want. As Margaret Thatcher said, the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:37 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    But you just can't give up after one loss, now can you? Republicans should take the same campaign message from Romney and use it in 2014, that they are for cutting all benefits for the people and instead make wage serfs out of them. This will bode very well for the 2014 elections, just as it did for Romney.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:40 PM Reply Like
  • robertlgriffin
    , contributor
    Comments (262) | Send Message
     
    MI-- Actually I don't think either party can fix our problems. The public debt is just in excess of 100% of the GDP and the only reason it isn't worse is because interest rates are near zero (Investment hint: Continue to add to fixed income securities as inflation will be tame for years and years, with no growth in GDP, ala Japan). "Wage serfs"- are you kidding? That's the beauty of our system. Everyone generally gets what they bargain for. There's plenty of opportunity in this great country of ours, an education for free (of course you have to work hard and stay in school) and plenty of job opportunities for those willing to work.
    The path we are on now isn't sustainable, period. We can exactly double the income taxes being paid by all who pay income taxes and it would just barely balance the budget. Tax a little more, spend a lot less, and give up on the notion that we are entitled because we are Americans. We got where we are because of hard work and much sacrifice, not because we were looking for someone else to solve our problems. Forget about getting help from our bankrupt government.
    28 Dec 2012, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Robert, fine. Cut military spending and means test Social Security and Medicare.
    28 Dec 2012, 07:12 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    "Cut military spending and means test Social Security and Medicare."

     

    We can TRIPLE the savings of that by simply repealing Obamacare - a $2.5 TRILLION / 10 yr unaffordable takeover of healthcare.

     

    Then go on to roll back every dollar of added spending since 2007... that would save $1 trillion PER YEAR.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:51 AM Reply Like
  • gmcleod752
    , contributor
    Comments (151) | Send Message
     
    Obama was SUPPOSE TO lead the development of a long term plan for fed spending, taxation, job creation, and entitlements after that last hack job in 2010 that resulted in the present cuts / tax increases. So why has this fool waited until the last minute to work on this issue? After a review of his book "Dreams of my Father", I would imagine he wants to punish everyone in America.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:37 PM Reply Like
  • BigJ1260
    , contributor
    Comments (206) | Send Message
     
    Hilarious reading all you right winger whack jobs just re spew FOX talking points

     

    Everyone knows Obama and Dems only ones to have offered compromise position at all, with spending cuts and Medicare cuts and soc security index put on table - Speaker Boner can't even get his own bill passed in his own caucus to bring tax rate on income over $1MM back to the pre Bush Rates - which BTW was supposed to happen 2 years ago when the cut rates were originally passed

     

    Still cleaning up after Bush Cheney regime
    Probably take another 4 years just like it took Clinton 2 terms to fix republican over spending
    28 Dec 2012, 04:53 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    So say you. I think unless Obama agrees to do exactly what Romney would have done, then it is no compromise.
    28 Dec 2012, 05:03 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    Romney was a centrist and Obama is a leftist.
    If you wanted a centrist solution, you should have voted Romney.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:52 AM Reply Like
  • bbrady413
    , contributor
    Comments (757) | Send Message
     
    BigJoke,

     

    Its sad reading all of the MSNBC talking points that you lefties love to spew.

     

    Now, I'm not quite sure how Obama and the Dems have offered compromise. At points, they said they'd be willing to offer $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in tax revenues. Now, the Republicans have offered 80 cents in spending cuts and $1.30 in tax revenues, and that has been painted by the left as not serious and a political stunt.

     

    Its funny too that you Dems claim to hate the Bush tax rates, yet during a lame duck session, the Democrat controlled Congress extended them. Now once again, they're evil and the cause of this mess, yet the Dems want to extend them again to a majority of Americans. You guys need to make up your mind.

     

    Now my question is, will Obama and the Dems ever take responsibility for what has happened under their watch? Or will it always be Bush's fault.

     

    You lefties are pathetic and the biggest enablers of this "no-responsibility its-not-my-fault" society that we're turning into.
    29 Dec 2012, 08:56 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    I am making money. I believe we are going over the cliff and stocks go down a chunk. Got my shopping list for long positions with target prices and also want to get more munis.

     

    Making lemonade.
    28 Dec 2012, 04:55 PM Reply Like
  • Rousseau SC
    , contributor
    Comments (284) | Send Message
     
    I just listened to Obama's speech. He takes Americans for fools; taxes now; we will negotiate spending cuts later.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Actually, he is telling the Tea Party Patriots that they should have accepted the deal offered last week, as the deal offered now will be far, far worse.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:16 PM Reply Like
  • Freedoms Truth
    , contributor
    Comments (853) | Send Message
     
    " He takes Americans for fools"

     

    Why Wouldnt Obama? They voted for him!

     

    "Actually, he is telling the Tea Party Patriots that they should have accepted the deal offered last week"

     

    There was no 'deal' - Obama never had a 'deal'. Plan B? Obama threatened to veto it and threatened to veto every 'compromise'.
    Obama offered higher spending and higher taxes.

     

    "he deal offered now will be far, far worse."
    Fine. PASS IT IN THE SENATE if it is such a great deal.
    29 Dec 2012, 03:56 AM Reply Like
  • bbrady413
    , contributor
    Comments (757) | Send Message
     
    Freedom,

     

    Mitch McConnell offered to vote on the Democrat proposed plan, but the vote was blocked by none other than Harry Reid, who said that voting on their own plan would be a political stunt. Gotta love DC eh?
    29 Dec 2012, 08:58 AM Reply Like
  • Venerability
    , contributor
    Comments (3048) | Send Message
     
    I just hope Stewart and Colbert were taking notes all during CNBC's Last Stand over the past few minutes.

     

    Pure satire. The only question is which ones know they are spouting a Script that's satire and which ones are still totally clueless.

     

    Too bad most of the regular Currency Trader crew were on vacation, since they are always the sanest in the bunch by far.

     

    As for your "Tea Party Patriots," they are now officially a footnote in our history - and a rather comical one.

     

    The main task for the GOP now is to come straight out and explain the difference between the words "Conservative" and "Libertarian;" why they are not only not the same concept, but generally opposing concepts; and how from this moment on, Republicans will embrace the former but NOT the latter.
    28 Dec 2012, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    If you think about it nobody knows the political factions in Rome. All they know is that Rome fell and they fell to the barbarians so they must have been a bunch of incompetent fools.

     

    Same here in the US. The political party games will not be remembered. It will only be remembered that the US failed and that we were fools. The more people talk about Rep vs Dem and are divided it tells me our minds are not focused on the real problem and solving it. We are arguing political points and they really don't matter against the larger problem. Our choices will go to zero at some point in the future.
    28 Dec 2012, 09:43 PM Reply Like
  • Macro Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (9049) | Send Message
     
    Noooooo! I want Republicans to embrace Liberatiran philosophy. It is working wonders for Democrats. Why stop a good thing?
    28 Dec 2012, 09:58 PM Reply Like
  • bbrady413
    , contributor
    Comments (757) | Send Message
     
    Basically the Tea Party are the same dorks in college who spent Saturday night in the library studying, while everybody else went out partying. But those dorks generally turned into successful productive members of society, while the partiers are living in their parents' basement.

     

    Most don't like the idea of responsibility, hence why Romney wasn't elected. He wanted to put America back to work. Obama wanted to keep the party going.

     

    Vener- laugh at the Tea Party all you want. But imagine if there was a Tea Party-esque faction in Greece before that country turned into a third world slum. Maybe they wouldn't have turned into that slum? Sure, nobody would be able to work only 20 years in their life, but at least they'd be able to pay their bills without causing rioting in the streets because the gravy is no longer flowing.
    29 Dec 2012, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • 1234gel
    , contributor
    Comments (1402) | Send Message
     
    It was Bill Clinton's theme song when he ran for office - "just thinkin about tomorrow" ( Fleetwood Mac ). Well..... the politicos need to give a thought about "tomorrow", as my prediction is the economy will tank soon if they do not get the "Cliff" issue right.

     

    1. If nothing is done, the economy will go into recession immediately, because of tax burdens and a severe cut in government spending.

     

    2. Obama prevails, and the tax burden on the top 2% becomes onerous, and they accordingly refuse to create new enterprise and job creation. ( they already pay 40% of all taxes, and 50% of the population pay no income tax - hmmm ).

     

    The best resolution is to extend the current tax policy until the economy recovers, and slowly reduce entitlements over the next ten years. Enforce a policy of balanced budgets. Revise the out of date Labor laws, or repeal them altogether. Abolish the minimum wage, and limit the unemployment benefits to six months.

     

    These easy changes would revive the economy and insure a prosperous future for the US.

     

    Because of political payback schemes and government corruption, it will not likely happen, and the country is likely headed to the trash-heap of previously failed democracies, mostly because of political ignorance and selfishness. Yes, the truth sometimes hurts !
    28 Dec 2012, 10:52 PM Reply Like
  • bbrady413
    , contributor
    Comments (757) | Send Message
     
    1234,

     

    We are going into recession no matter what. The government gravy train can't roll forever. Its just a matter of when it stops.

     

    I like your idea of staying the course with tax policy and a slowdown in entitlement spending.

     

    The most important thing you said though has to do with the archaic labor laws we have. Repeal the minimum wage and watch the unemployment rate get cut in half in about 5 minutes. The problem is, you'll have lefties claiming how that idea is racist, and how can anybody support a family without a minimum wage. The minimum wage keeps more people out of work than Obama himself. Get rid of the minimum wage and cut unemployment benefits, and we go from an economy of bums sitting around cashing their handout checks, to an economy that is actually productive. Abolishing the minimum wage would be rocket fuel for the manufacturing sector.
    29 Dec 2012, 09:08 AM Reply Like
  • tschol
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Reading all the comments around the fiscal cliff game I somehow feeling to be on a different planet. Does all the commentators and GOP politicians have really forgotten the mess different republican presidents have been driving the american population into. Obama has been earning the deepest economic and financial crisis since the 1930s. The sudden death of the Wall Street parties has destroyed the foundations of trustworthiness and business ethic. I very strongly think that Obama is one of the very few politican having a positive strategy for the country. Once the democrats will have a clear majority in the House, the country starts to florish again. A country which will be less selfish, less dominated by Bushmaster fighters, a country dominated by the young generation.
    For now, the presidents fiscal cliff strategy is the only one which will foster this change.
    The distant view of a Swiss investor.
    29 Dec 2012, 08:14 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    tschol

     

    You really don't know what you are talking about. Example: "a country dominated by the young generation."

     

    This country is dominated by the older generation and they have most of the wealth and are extracting more through taxes and debt and dropping the tab on the younger generation.

     

    Stay at a distance it might just look better from that vantage point.
    29 Dec 2012, 08:29 AM Reply Like
  • bbrady413
    , contributor
    Comments (757) | Send Message
     
    Tschol, you need to stay in Switzerland. You obviously have no clue what is going on over here, or what is healthy for this nation. The Democrats want to deficit spend as much as they can, while squeezing every drop out of taxes they can from the American taxpayer. In their minds, their job is to control all aspects of life for everybody. But they can't do it with current revenue, so they seek more via money printing, taxing, and borrowing, and it is killing this nation.

     

    Prosperity can't be legislated. Don't forget that. But unfortunately, that is what politicians, especially Democrats, are attempting to do.
    30 Dec 2012, 08:13 AM Reply Like
  • ghmoore70
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    Is it possible to have an adult to adult discussion? Insults and name calling childish. Political bias detracts from rational discourse. Grow up.
    30 Dec 2012, 05:23 AM Reply Like
  • ghmoore70
    , contributor
    Comments (4) | Send Message
     
    Started poor, worked and did without while studying until about 27 yrs of age. Never had "government assistance". God has allowed me to prosper and be self reliant.
    30 Dec 2012, 05:23 AM Reply Like
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