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Automakers are fighting a proposal from California's regulators that would require zero-emission...

Automakers are fighting a proposal from California's regulators that would require zero-emission vehicles to comprise up to 5.5% of new car sales by 2018 and 14% by 2025. With ten other states adopting California's policies, nationwide sales requirements could reach triple the California figure.
Comments (23)
  • 7footMoose
    , contributor
    Comments (2266) | Send Message
     
    I have to assume that this is in effect mandating a 5.5% share of all electric automobiles. When calculating the "zero-emission" requirement are they also mandating that the electricity to recharge the batteries in these automobiles has to come from 100% renewable sources?
    12 Jun 2011, 07:03 AM Reply Like
  • Poor Texan
    , contributor
    Comments (3529) | Send Message
     
    Sail cars would be zero-emission vehicles. People that know how to sail boats could use those skills vehicles retrofitted with sails. I know it sounds stupid but if the government mandates it we have to do it.:-)
    12 Jun 2011, 12:48 PM Reply Like
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (3984) | Send Message
     
    Do people still believe this one? It has been proven repeatedly that even when pulled from coal fired plants, the electricity used to recharge pure EVs results in less overall pollution than a gas engine car. Grid/utility scale energy is simply more efficient and cleaner than that produced locally even with the inefficiencies in it.
    13 Jun 2011, 07:56 AM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    7Ft- good point, at the end of the power cord will we find a windmill or solar powered generator or oil/coal fired. Will the power source be a pure green play or hybrid. Will the required increase in emission free autos result in a positive environmental net gain and if so at what cost to the end user, or does it really matter to legislators who regularly spend 200K to create a 40k job.
    12 Jun 2011, 08:11 AM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1500) | Send Message
     
    As Coal provides above 40% of electricity in the US and renewable products provide less than 10% of it.....we can infer that the majority of electricity for this so called green vehicles comes from fossil fuels and thus negates the argument of green energy and shows is a Fallacy......
    12 Jun 2011, 08:40 AM Reply Like
  • anarchist
    , contributor
    Comments (1220) | Send Message
     
    Basically I agree Joe but I don't think there is a lot of Coal used in generation of electricity in California. All of Northern California is supplied by Shasta Dam-hydro as far as I know with a smattering of geothermal in the Napa/Sonoma valley. There are a couple of nuclear plants in mid and Southern California as well.
    12 Jun 2011, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12752) | Send Message
     
    Joe:

     

    I assume your 10% must include hydrodynamic power generation via dams. Well, we all know that in the new alternate-universe, eco-world we live in, dams are not sources of renewable energy, either. First, all water is a scarce resource that isn't "renewable" and is "disappearing," right? Second, the building of any new dam is an unthinkable intrusion on the environment and might affect some incalculably valuable life form, like the snail darter.

     

    So, when we redefine "renewable" by what's politically correct, not by what's scientific, then, I'd guess that renewable energy contributes less than 1% of all U.S. energy.
    12 Jun 2011, 10:01 AM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1500) | Send Message
     
    Tack,

     

    Yes, I was including the hydro generation......

     

    So I guess your comment has good humor and it is correct....
    12 Jun 2011, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • losbronces
    , contributor
    Comments (617) | Send Message
     
    Here are the sources for electric power generation in California: energyalmanac.ca.gov/e...

     

    No guessing involved, these are the stats provided by the California Energy Commission. Note however that the numbers do not add up and exceed 100% (renewables are stated, but also separated out to emphasize how green they are). Geothermal, in my opinion, should not be considered a renewable source--as most of these facilities face declining generation capacity over time---it takes awhile to heat the water. Since California is part of the western interconnected grid, whereby power flows rather freely between the western states, their reliance on coal-fired plants could be understated--it could be as high as 23.8% based on their own numbers (add the "unspecified sources" to the coal portion).
    12 Jun 2011, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • Joe Morgan
    , contributor
    Comments (1500) | Send Message
     
    Thanks, yes I was referring Nationwide....
    12 Jun 2011, 09:32 AM Reply Like
  • bigbenorr
    , contributor
    Comments (734) | Send Message
     
    Who cares where the power is coming from. The real problem with this is that it forces automakers to build an inferior product. (battery powered vehicles)
    12 Jun 2011, 09:46 AM Reply Like
  • Poor Texan
    , contributor
    Comments (3529) | Send Message
     
    Knowing how sneaky people are and ready to break laws at the least chance, I'm guessing that buyers who didn't want to own an electric would go to Nevada or Arizona or Mexico and buy a polluter.
    12 Jun 2011, 12:52 PM Reply Like
  • Killer454
    , contributor
    Comments (784) | Send Message
     
    And just how are they going to force the car buyers to buy those electric cars?
    12 Jun 2011, 10:38 AM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12752) | Send Message
     
    Killer:

     

    Well, just like Obamacare. They mandate that you must buy one, simple as that. Can't Government make you do anything it wishes? (The Constitution is just some outmoded antiquity, on display to the curious at the National Archives, right?)
    12 Jun 2011, 10:57 AM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    killer- Besides direct mandate as suggested they can do so by taxes on what they are against (gasoline) and provide incentives for those things they are for (electric cars). The CEO of GM is now asking the administration to increase gasoline tax by $1, why?, see above
    12 Jun 2011, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • Conventional Wisdumb
    , contributor
    Comments (1802) | Send Message
     
    A lifetime supply of ethically produced, organic, shade-grown, non-exploitive, Government mandated broccoli will be included at no extra charge with the purchase of every electric vehicle.

     

    The anti-oxidants of the broccoli will offset the increased risk associated with driving and therefore will lower the overall costs to the health system.

     

    Just imagine all of the amazing innovations that will result from the government "improving" our lives in the future.
    12 Jun 2011, 11:14 AM Reply Like
  • andruomail
    , contributor
    Comments (123) | Send Message
     
    It looks like they're not required to sell them, just to make them:

     

    www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/...
    13 Jun 2011, 12:10 AM Reply Like
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (3984) | Send Message
     
    Killer -

     

    For one, expect government and enterprise to purchase them. Ford will be making a Transit Connect that will be well suited for that work for example.

     

    But, much like manufacturers made 'flex-fuel'cars that could run on a high level of ethanol but no one ever bothered to try or care about it, in order to meet a requirement that they make 'alternative' fuel vehicles, I suspect some loophole will be devised or imagined that will allow the automaker to circumvent the rule.
    13 Jun 2011, 08:02 AM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    Allow me to enlighten you guys about the California mentality.
    When I lived in the valley, the trend was towards building in the cleaner upper valleys and commuting thru the S.F. Valley on into work in L.A.
    People would brag that their valley had less smog. Well, guess so since they had to pollute my valley in order to drive 30-40 miles to work.
    So Californians have a long standing tradition of pursuing cleaner air at the expense of someone else, like coal fired plants in Arizona.

     

    Nothing new to see here, so move along folks.

     

    By the way - The way that works, they do not force you to by an electric car. They fine the Manufacture if they don't sell enough of them. At least, that's the way it works at the federal level.
    12 Jun 2011, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12752) | Send Message
     
    Max:

     

    Since, in the end, it's always about extorting and extracting more money, the Government would much rather have targets fail and fines paid. It's the same logic as red-light cameras, supposedly for "safety;" They're really about collecting revenues, nothing more.
    12 Jun 2011, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    Tack - Forgot to mention, that the California Department of transportation will be wanting to add another tax at the DMV because their revenue from the Gas taxes are falling off. Gas-Electrics do not buy as much gas and Electrics buy no gas at all.
    12 Jun 2011, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • KJP712
    , contributor
    Comments (437) | Send Message
     
    With all their Mandates,the exodus from California will be swift.
    12 Jun 2011, 06:34 PM Reply Like
  • Uber Vandal
    , contributor
    Comments (296) | Send Message
     
    Where is the copper going to come from for new transmission lines to plug in the cars?

     

    Not to mention rare earths, and copper for the wiring, and windings of the motors, in the vehicles.

     

    How well will these cars work for towing things, such as trailers, or when the temperatures fall below -20F or when there is over 3 inches of snow on the ground or a deep water puddle?

     

    Our electric infrastructure is one squirrel or tree branch away from failure on any given day, adding this to the list could really do wonders with brown outs and black outs.
    13 Jun 2011, 05:23 AM Reply Like
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