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So the U.S. lost S&P's AAA rating for the first time in a 70-year history; so what? Mark...

So the U.S. lost S&P's AAA rating for the first time in a 70-year history; so what? Mark Thoma says this is S&P erring on the only side it can after blowing the pre-crisis situation. Always pragmatic Warren Buffett says solvency's not an issue when the debts are all in currency the U.S. can print; inflation, that's another story. Ready to buy on this coming dip?
Comments (268)
  • kmi
    , contributor
    Comments (3992) | Send Message
     
    Solvency isn't the issue, clearly.

     

    The problem is increasingly combative rhetoric in the DC which disallows compromise or progress at resolving any issue at all whatsoever in any meaningful way.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:18 AM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    bingo... but the GOP won't actually read the sp report.
    " The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy."

     

    you don't use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip you traitors
    6 Aug 2011, 08:47 AM Reply Like
  • lowemoran
    , contributor
    Comments (130) | Send Message
     
    Impeach Obama and charge with treason the real traitor Harry Reid.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:52 AM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (993) | Send Message
     
    Relax. It will become more stable next election when TEA takes over the house and gets a strong foothold in Senate.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:16 AM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    "A CBS News/New York Times poll this week shows that only 20 percent of Americans and 41 percent of Republicans have a favorable view of the tea party, down from 26 percent and 59 percent, respectively, in April. Just 18 percent of Americans now view themselves as Tea Party supporters, compared with 31 percent who did immediately after the November 2010 elections."
    6 Aug 2011, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2711) | Send Message
     
    ["A CBS News/New York Times poll this week shows that only 20 percent of Americans and 41 percent of Republicans have a favorable view of the tea party,]

     

    Wouldn't the TEA Party effort to reduce our debt and live within our spending means actually help improve an S&P rating?
    6 Aug 2011, 12:01 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The TP is really more about an idea than a press sucking compromised party like the other two living fossils we have. The idea is the government's role is too big and the debt is too big.

     

    Those ideas will not go away and we will have the rest of the world to remind us of it going forward.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:29 PM Reply Like
  • Bear Bait
    , contributor
    Comments (665) | Send Message
     
    I'm with S'patrol
    6 Aug 2011, 01:50 PM Reply Like
  • Bear Bait
    , contributor
    Comments (665) | Send Message
     
    I've been a Republican for forty years and I think the Teabaggers are idiots.
    6 Aug 2011, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • BlueSky&Sunshine
    , contributor
    Comments (11) | Send Message
     
    Agree. I've been a Republican about 35 years. The Teabaggers are NOT Republicans in any sense that I understand.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    The political brinksmanship of Pelosi & Reid made it difficult to reach even this agreement of no agreement. The sane people wanted more cuts. The House passed both cuts of $5.8 trillion and $4 trillion, both of which would have satisfied S&P. The left in the Senate wouldn't have it. And now our 70 yr. credit has been tarnished because the left wouldn't move towards sanity on this.

     

    I guess the Tea Partiers were traitors and terrorists then. Better call Homeland Security right away!
    6 Aug 2011, 02:01 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    I think the Tea Party are the only honest and rational player in WDC and the Republicans are idiots. Sound good media robot?

     

    Thanks for playing along.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:04 PM Reply Like
  • lowemoran
    , contributor
    Comments (130) | Send Message
     
    I've been a democrat for forty years and I think Obama is an idiot...
    6 Aug 2011, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Stoploss
    , contributor
    Comments (1727) | Send Message
     
    Don't look now, but europe is burning. Germany just gave the middle finger to Italy. Solvency is the issue du-jour today, (pardon the pun).
    All it takes is one domino, and It aly is about to fall.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    i was aligned with republicans for over 15 years, but thanks to the tea party and their zealotry, I'm forever finished.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:25 PM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    Let me get this clear superpat. You call folks that stopped a bunch of maniacs from increasing the debt limit and raising taxes, traitors.

     

    If I was in a fight and needed a patriot to cover my back it would be the Speaker John B. Not some Vegas paid-for, Big Government bankrupter like Reid. BTW - Reid blocked the FAA bill because the House version cut out big subsidies to his favorite airport in Nevada, which got the most money of any airport on the list.

     

    It's nice to see folks who will do what's best for the country, and not what seems to be the popularist thing at the time.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • Lakeaffect
    , contributor
    Comments (993) | Send Message
     
    Once all the dust settles, folks will realize that the only thing that kept the debt problem from being fixed was that there were not enough TPers in Congress to get the cuts through. The old guard Republicans, practicing their usual politics, caved at the critical moment. There will be a few less Old Guard Republicans, and a few less Democrats in congress next time around, and a lot more TPers.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:33 PM Reply Like
  • mra1385
    , contributor
    Comments (24) | Send Message
     
    S&P also said the Republicans' unwillingness to raise revenues, or let the Bush tax cuts expire, was a major rationale for their downgrade. Why did you leave that out of your rant?
    6 Aug 2011, 02:57 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Do the math. Its not credible.

     

    Spending is the issue. Revenues are actually fine for the most part.

     

    I guess that was the 'political' bone the S&P lobbed into the write up.
    6 Aug 2011, 03:01 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3080) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like you pulled those numbers out of your ass. Last year was a $4Trillion cut that was torpedoed by Pelosi. This year the Ryan proposal got nowhere, two Senators came up with a $2.4Trillion package, but crying Boehner got his barely $1Billion baby shoved through. Nothing came close to what the ratings agencies suggested.

     

    Here's the link thomas.loc.gov/home/Le... so you can point to where these magic numbers you found. You will not find them there.

     

    Your political process is broken in the United States. Without a super-majority in both Congress and Senator to shove legislation down the throats of everyone else, there can be no effective legislation to address debt reduction. Your country needs to copy Zimbabwe in it's current state in order to accomplish anything in the future.

     

    I agree with some of the principals of the (non-radical) Tea Party people, but not with the process suggestions. Some of them wanted a financial tsunami to hit and wipe out everything, and then try rebuilding. It is ridiculous to expect instant gratification. With a failure for the many sides to work together, perhaps the only choice in the future will become breaking it all apart, but it could then never be what it once was in the past.
    6 Aug 2011, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • Bear Bait
    , contributor
    Comments (665) | Send Message
     
    BS. The each framer of the Constitution didn't get everything they wanted, it was a compromise document. The Dems came to the table ready to compromise but the Teabaggers said they would not compromise. Their behavior was idiotic, nonsensical and definitely not in the best interest of this country. Personally I believe the Teabaggers and their supporters are a far right lunatic fringe group. Just like the fable of the Goose that Laid the Golden Egg their idiotic, intransigent stance has greatly reduced the US's ability to pay its debt and reduce defict spending. Just like a credit card when a payment is late or missed, the interest rate on our debt just went up and will take longer to repay.
    6 Aug 2011, 04:03 PM Reply Like
  • Bear Bait
    , contributor
    Comments (665) | Send Message
     
    from where I sit the Tabaggers are the maniacs. Recent polls seem to indicate the rest of America feels the same way.
    6 Aug 2011, 04:06 PM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    OK, Bear - now I get it. It's a populists thing. Go with the flow and the poll. Even if only because you want everything you can grab and you want it now. Screw the young folks. Vote for the whole pie now.

     

    BTW: Putin just said that Americans are Parasites. Geez, Bear, do ya think....

     

    Got it, you sneaky devil.
    6 Aug 2011, 04:23 PM Reply Like
  • LKofEnglish
    , contributor
    Comments (4386) | Send Message
     
    why would we be downgraded if "solvency isn't an issue"? clearly Warren Buffet's solvency isn't an issue. But that's not the problem here. "It's about the State of Michigan." Something tells me "Warren doesn't really have any exptertise in that matter" nor would he admit to it if he did. Move along...this issue has NEVER been "the solvency of the USA." Insofar as "the constituent elements" of the USA of course...and that does include the Dow Jones Industrial Average...
    6 Aug 2011, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1850) | Send Message
     
    20% of Americans are welfare sucking retards and 41% of republicants have no balls.

     

    The principles remain the same... spend less than you take in, and that no company is TBTF (Gold Mansacks, I'm talking to you.)

     

    Sidenote: the CBS NYTimes is rebranding as Pravda US.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:07 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1850) | Send Message
     
    We may all have common ground here if a lifelong dem recognizes Obama and Co are idiots, and the Republicans realize their "leadership" sucks too...

     

    3rd party anyone? The older I get the more libertarian/anarchist I become....
    6 Aug 2011, 08:09 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1850) | Send Message
     
    There is a great source of untaxed wealth that Ritholtz has been writing about, generically as "net worth" but I would go one better... tax endowments and eliminate the tax exempt status for all but religious organizations. A one time tax on endowments gets you $3-400B.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:11 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Good for you Bear Bait and BlueSky&Sunshine!

     

    There is a little fly in that ointment though. All the Teabaggers have that pesky "R" after there name.

     

    I know you can't help that.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:03 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    I'd say that didn't pass because the left (we) insisted on a "Balanced" approach, which I still insist on. However, President Obama did "screw that pooch". And I'm still not believing it.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:12 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    I say tax religious organizations. I know, that pesky separation of church and state. But, if they want religious symbols on public property............tax em in a NY minute.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    He's commonly known as The Right Honorable John Boner, aka, "The Tan Man, aka "Crying John".
    6 Aug 2011, 09:25 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    The sane people wanted cuts and revenue, not just one or the other. The only thing the House offered were cuts, basically it was the Ryan plan. Sorry but please get down from the high horse and tell the full truth.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:09 PM Reply Like
  • Tom in Texas
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    Why religious organizations?
    6 Aug 2011, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • Agbug
    , contributor
    Comments (1091) | Send Message
     
    Lakeeffect - "There will be a few less Old Guard Republicans, and a few less Democrats in congress next time around, and a lot more TPers"

     

    I don't know that one can be sure about that. The cuts of this debacle, such as they are, have yet to even be determined. We've only seen some barking in this dog fight. Wait until a little fiscal blood starts getting spilled and see how voters react.

     

    The AARP is already running ads about cutting Medicare payments to hospitals. We saw what happened in Wisconsin when the public unions collective bargaining rights were threatened. I have seen ads from teacher's unions all over the West coast (it's about the kids).

     

    It's is my opinion that right now the majority think it's "the other guy" that's cutting a fat hog, they think their "benefits" are legitimate and righteous. At best it's, "I'll pay when the other guy pays, but he's going first".

     

    When the vote buying season gets underway next spring it's going to be epic.

     

    As one other post referenced, this is the "War of the Roses" and it won't be over until all parties involved go splat on the terrazo floor.

     

    I'm with S&P on this one, this is bad, and more than likely is going to get worse.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:30 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    You are just the reflection of the dedicated died in the wool Democrat. Same results different color.
    7 Aug 2011, 01:57 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Two words: Bill Ayers.

     

    Its in his book: Expand the public sector. Make it as big as possible, the unproductive. Make them state dependents.

     

    Then they will never vote against their own self interest.

     

    You will reach empire death throes in one generation.

     

    We are that generation.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:08 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    There were cuts? Really? Show me the cuts.

     

    Then explain them, in detail.

     

    Yeah, thanks.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:09 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Ag

     

    Agree with a lot of your post. We need to go broke first and have everything destroyed before real change is contemplated.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:22 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Taxing net worth is the final step in government looting of the citizens of this country. It really will not affect me monetarily........at least this time around.

     

    Mao would be proud.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:23 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Tea Party has been the only clear voice on the dangers of the deficit and the need to cut it.

     

    That is to the shame of the Reps and Dems. That is the real story.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:26 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Cutting the deficit is crazy? No wonder we are getting downgraded. More on the way.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:27 AM Reply Like
  • Agbug
    , contributor
    Comments (1091) | Send Message
     
    I lump tax cuts in the "benefits" category. The tide is currently on the side of spending cuts as the solution. My point being, wait until a few more cuts filter through and see how the votes start coming in. Both sides have over played their hands, IMO. A sincere thank you for adding S&P's opinion that just cutting is not going to work. I agree.
    7 Aug 2011, 09:57 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Ag

     

    How are tax cuts a benefit?
    7 Aug 2011, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tomas -

     

    Let me take a crack at answering your question.

     

    The existing fiscal situation provides various advantages in the form of targeted expenditures (probably what you envision as 'benefits') and tax break to an array of individuals, to State and Local Governments and to corporations and other business enterprises. It follows that any reductions to one or more of these tax breaks has, broadly speaking for fiscal accounting purposes, the same effect of saving the Federal Government money as would a corresponding cut to what you would see as a benefit. Agbug, in effect, is enlarging the term 'benefits' to correspond to what I have referred to as 'advantages'. I think he is correct to do so.

     

    Of course, all this does not address the further question of whether cutting a particular tax break or benefit will, once this change works its way through the demand aspect of the economy, will actually reduce annual budget deficits in the way assume.
    7 Aug 2011, 04:47 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3080) | Send Message
     
    Tax breaks or deductions available to some companies or individuals, and not available to other companies and individuals, are ways for governments to pick winners and losers. That these winners are often large contributors to election campaigns should be no surprise. This is not unique to the United States. To "clean-up" the imbalances, or even to simplify the tax codes, would eliminate a source of funding for many politicians; this is why I think it is highly unlikely tax reform will happen anywhere. So this moves the discussions on towards half measures and more favoritism.
    7 Aug 2011, 05:19 PM Reply Like
  • Agbug
    , contributor
    Comments (1091) | Send Message
     
    Thank you, Bob. That is exactly how I view it. I lump Federal largesse together, no matter the conduit. Bush tax cuts, capital gains cuts, the SS payroll reduction, the GWB payola of 6 or 8 years ago, extended un-employment, the Feds backfilling state government retirement funds with stimulus money, unfunded Medicare prescriptions, etc. Nearly all of it amounts to politicians rewarding their respective constituencies with a "benefit" and no one minded the other guys advantage too much, as long as they got theirs.
    7 Aug 2011, 09:07 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I never said there were cuts. It's all smoke and mirrors, the 2.4 trillion dollar cut. All the savings, supposedly, after 2012. My comment was that all the house wanted were entitlment cuts and all the Dems wanted was revenue income. In the end the agreement was to cut something somewhere somehow sometime later after 2012. What? Your guess is as good as mine.
    7 Aug 2011, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Bob & Ag:

     

    The reason I asked this question was to understand the mentality behind it.

     

    First the USA is not a monarchy or even close to it but the mentality of that thinking has permeated people's thinking 200 + years after we threw off the mantle of King George. Our Dem party talking points has introduced language into the American lexicon that belongs to a monarchy. Second only government "benefits" from taxes. It is a transfer of value from the private to the public sector. The US government in its benevolence may benefit one group over another just like a king rewards his loyal subjects. US citizens do not necessarily benefit from taxation and it is questionable the loss of freedom is overcome by any benefit they realize through government programs.

     

    I would never lump benefits in with tax deductions or tax breaks because that confuses the structure of what this country was built on and is a disservice to anyone who values freedom or the people who fought for it.

     

    Hate to rock your world in Canada but we kicked out King George with prejudice.
    8 Aug 2011, 02:25 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tomas -

     

    I don't think we are re-fighting the American Revolution here; only discussing various ways that fiscal balances could be reduced.

     

    It's clear that you don't like taxes. Few of us do but taxes are the price of having a functioning democratic country (provided, of course, that those taxes are authorized by duly elected legislators performing their constitutional role validly).
    8 Aug 2011, 11:19 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    "It's clear that you don't like taxes. Few of us do "

     

    Correction. Taxes are popular. A lot more of the non-taxpayers like taxes now than ever before. Taxes are, apparently, quite 'the new thing' by the ones who don't pay, wanting to be carried along by others.

     

    "but taxes are the price of having a functioning democratic country (provided, of course, that those taxes are authorized by duly elected legislators performing their constitutional role validly)"

     

    And when the elected legislators have learned how to promise more free crap to lowlifes who vote to moat in their power, then that 'validity' becomes nonexistent.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Bob

     

    You are wrong but I would not expect you to understand since you have not been raised in the US. We are in a sense refighting the AR. King George has been replaced by a body of people in the Congress and Executive Branch with similair goals as King George which is to enhance their power by paying money to their supporters and taking it from other people. Same BS just different people. Power wants money and money wants power. These are dangerous combinations for anyone who values freedom. It is embarrassing that we have drifted this far away from the founding principles of our country and shameful that people don't even know it.

     

    Taxes are fine to a degree and then they turn into organized corruption and graft. Balancing a budget full of corruption and graft is not a noble goal. Downsize the Federal Government and return power to the states where there is more local control. There is no way the FG should have their tentacles in the lives of Americans to the extent they do. It is more invasive now then what King George had 200 + years ago. He just wanted the taxes and was happy with that.

     

    When I visit England and look at the crowns on top of the street lights which indicates that the royal family owns the property on that street it a reminder that royalty owns and sits on critical capital which the country needs to grow. But the English are too unaware to know that this hiearachy and royal mindset stunts their growth and their imagination around what is possible. People are not entirely free if the means of production and capital is not available to them. Likewise in the US our FG is taking away freedom both economically and through regulation which stunts our growth and the imagination of our citizens.

     

    It is an embarrassment that people have fallen for this Faustinian Bargain and allowed freedoms to be chipped away at for decades and now we are at a critical juncture where the FG is taking a massive amount of control and with corrupt political figures and process at the helm. And behind them a lazy and corrupt public that wants their favors.

     

    It is not just about taxes. It is about freedom.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:49 AM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    You tell 'em Wyatt! You stupid suckers! I was actually a Democrat until Ronald Reagan showed up and reminded me of some civic lessons. Since then, I've become more and more conservative until I'm now really a Libertarian except for the foreign policy piece. The TEA Party may be our last best hope of having enough Constitution left to rescue our country from the European Socialists. Go re-watch Obama at Tiergarten, in Germany - he's just another Statist/Socialist who uses the Oligarchy (bankers) to keep his place at the table. He is a virulent scumbag and the worst sort of human. A traitor, actually. You may not realize this if you haven't read the Constitution in the last 10 years or so....or 30... or ever.
    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force.
    Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington
    Go George.
    8 Aug 2011, 10:25 PM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    "Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses." --Juvenal, circa 100 AD.
    ...oh, yeah, and "Dancing With the Stars"...
    ...soon, NFL Football. That will placate them...
    8 Aug 2011, 10:40 PM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    Dear Mr. Bear Bait. You know nothing about the writing of the Constitution, which you've just proved. Your real name is Timothy, isn't it?
    8 Aug 2011, 10:41 PM Reply Like
  • Agbug
    , contributor
    Comments (1091) | Send Message
     
    Thomas, I agree with the core of your position. I firmly believe that taxes should be collected and distributed as near to the source as possible. This allows the monitoring of the public officials by their constituents. The present system obscures what is actually occurring. Deficit spending is a multiplier of that obscurity.

     

    The fact of the matter is, a large majority of the populace trades their freedom in exchange for safety and security, or the promise thereof, and does so willingly. Evidence of that is everywhere. They demand it actually. I appreciate the fact that the current system of taxation and re-distribution takes away your freedom to make your own choices, and thus your freedom in the truest sense of the word. In that regard, I can see where you refused to accept my statement without challenging it. I think the term advantages, whether desired or requested, would be a more appropriate term.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:01 PM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    If there weren't really CUTS, then what is all the bleating about? You should be jumping up and down with joy that we've been completely idiotic in the newest version of Washington budget drivel. Oh my gosh!! You mean we almost reduced our deficit spending? OMG!! That's horrible, you filthy people - you, you TEA PARTIERS!

     

    Where do you people come from? Is this the GED section of Seeking Alpha?
    9 Aug 2011, 12:31 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3080) | Send Message
     
    Sounds like you would like a coup d'etait. Just remember that local governments, businesses, and many individuals are no more noble, and often no less corrupt, than those now in power at the federal level.

     

    If you ever studied cultural anthropology, you know that hunter gather societies, and tribal governments, do not work once there are too many people. Government, or governing, only exists in an attempt to maintain order. It can never appease everyone.

     

    Perhaps the US could go through what is happening in North Africa and parts of the Middle East, but I doubt it. The military is not going to step in and mandate a new form of government in the US. I seriously have to wonder what exactly some of you want to happen. You have enough images and recent history to see what a violent change of government does to a country.
    9 Aug 2011, 02:39 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    No. Just a reversal of some of this centralization of power and money. And a return to the states some of their power.

     

    That alone is mind blowing to people they are so brainwashed by the WDC politicos.
    9 Aug 2011, 10:31 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Why not. These guys on SA want every one to pay taxes even if your making 16,000 a year!

     

    Besides I've heard enough politics being preached from the pulpit and now your Governor is pandering to the religious right.

     

    TAX 'EM

     

    Why should they get a free ride?
    10 Aug 2011, 12:47 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    A loose confederacy, let the states compete for ideas within a mitigated federal 'father figure' who governs at a distance.

     

    Man doesn't need to be told what to do or how to live, but only to be left alone.

     

    It is the left who mistrusts this notion and thus wants to control every area of our lives and somehow this is 'progress'.
    10 Aug 2011, 02:12 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Sometimes I think it may very well be just that.
    10 Aug 2011, 02:13 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Turn the US into something like the EU, eh Wyatt? Or undue the US Constitution and return to the loose association of States of the post Revolution but pre Ratification of the Constitution phase?
    10 Aug 2011, 09:11 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    The EU was and is an artificial construct of various cultures, norms and social mores. Their constitution is a weakly fabricated piece of borrowed plagiarism. That is to say it doesn't have an organic nature, unlike the United States of America.

     

    The fact is, America has been suffering line upon line, precept upon precept from an increasing federal coercive influence ever since Lincoln, but exponentially so these last 75 years under Big Gov goons such as FDR and LBJ who were outspoken about their anticonstitutional bias and had no shame about that fact. Its destructive and breeds corruption as centralized power always does once its removed from 'the people'. This has been a move away from the Constitution and towards slavery. It never ends well and in this case will not end well here either.

     

    We need to go back to a federal idea who only leads with the exertion of their pinky finger. The States need to relearn the lesson of how to exercise their Constitutional authority in those many cases where it has become abridged. We are the United States, not Washington DC. And the longer WDC continues to push this envelope, the less "united" we will be. Ironic isn't it?
    10 Aug 2011, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Bleating? i'm just having fun. If you can make heads or tales(that's for the GED folks) of what's going on please inform us all.
    10 Aug 2011, 10:38 PM Reply Like
  • valueinvestor123
    , contributor
    Comments (327) | Send Message
     
    Yes printing more now that is a great solution. (computers need to come with a sarcasm button so I can hit that after I post things).
    6 Aug 2011, 08:22 AM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2711) | Send Message
     
    [(computers need to come with a sarcasm button so I can hit that after I post things).]

     

    In html language it would be written "turn off sarcasm" and would look like this:

     

    </sarcasm>
    6 Aug 2011, 12:03 PM Reply Like
  • zorro2828
    , contributor
    Comments (550) | Send Message
     
    I know this will not spur the politicians in Washington or the States to start seriously addressing the overspending and the tax issues that are fundamentally keeping the US from blowing the world away ... As a Canadian, yes we are more conservative and try to spend only the money we have, I think the Made in USA slogan where jobs are plentiful, and the quality of manufacturing is so high is so close at hand if only you were to stop spending and enhance business to invest, hire and promote Made in USA .. Goldwater wanted to drop the bomb, I think it is about time Washington delivered a knock out blow to the rest of this inept world that it will not spend more than it takes in, it will be business friendly and promote foreign earning s to come home if they are used to hire and expand our facilities here in North America.. We have natural gas, oil, potash, corn, wheat, water ( here in Canada) timber, minerals and rare earth finds ( California ) to say nothing of graphite that looks to be the item that will blow away silicon and all of the creativity of Apple and high tech... So what is holding you all back from coming clean, you spent too much, over regulated and have diminished hope for the entrepreneur .. Time to go back to "In God we Trust: before you do indeed rust without Him...
    6 Aug 2011, 08:26 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Hello Canada and a good morning to you. Problem we are more a capitalist society than a socialist society. Even if we eliminated regulations, what would that do? Just increase pollution, reduce labor laws...a string of bad things for us. Canada is a young nation full of resources and the world knows it. Did you know there are chinese boats off the coast of Canada recieving timber and materials, making products and sending them back to US and Canada for sale? That does not sound right for the workers whom are obligated to work on these vessels, especially when we do not know how they are treated, but you can imagine.
    The debt problem is an illussion, in a sense. US only owes 3 to 4 trillion dollars to the ROW. The other 10 we owe to ourselves and is gauranteed with houses, cars, money etc, etc. All countries can do the same to increase living standards. Problem is, and i do not know why, everyone sems to think the US owes 14 trillion to the rest of the world (Which is totally false). Anyway, S&P's downgrade is uncalled for and just another stupid mistake by a rating agency, and even Buffett knows it. Personally, rating agencies are shooting themselves out of buisiness. Soon no one will care what they say.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:05 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    nm

     

    We suck less but we still suck. We don't have control of our finances and we will only control them once a gun is to our head. In that sense we are no different than Greece. More downgrades are coming on our current trajectory and we must believe in our own BS if we believe it will not have consequences.

     

    Our debt is a problem and your logic around owing money to ourselves is illogical and uninformed. Real countries and people own that debt including a ton of Americans that depend on it through 401K's, pension funds, insurance companies, etc. Parsing the debt load based on who owns it does not relieve the debt burden and defaulting is not an option.

     

    With respect to capitalism; Every rationale country and person is a capitalist when they make decisions. They just don't admit it. Do you invest in A with a 10% return or B with a 2% return and all things are equal. So you have just made a capital decision.

     

    Now do you invest in A with a 10% return or give money to B which will spend it on personal consumption and come back for more? If you pick B then you are more socialist. You are not looking for a return but rather you are giving away wealth. By this measure the US has a pretty big socialist streak in it.

     

    People give their capital to money managers to make these decisions for them and they are deploying it around the world as the US has low returns and a lot of uncertainty. So people talk a big game with other peoples' money but then they invest outside of the US. US Corporations are investing outside of the US. Foreign corporations are pulling capital out of the US. See HSBC's recent announcement.

     

    At this point China has a better grasp of capitalism then does the US.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • catamount
    , contributor
    Comments (374) | Send Message
     
    TVP:
    "At this point China has a better grasp of capitalism then does the US."

     

    Considering the Chinese government is part owner of all large business in the country, that claim doesn't make sense.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:01 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Considering our trajectory and their trajectory it does make sense.

     

    Our government takes ownership through regulation and taxes. Never mind they took stakes in all the banks, AIG and GM.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:30 PM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    not to mention the fact that people can't even invest in the vast majority of enterprises, that price controls are thought to be a solution to inflation, and that the capital and currency exchange markets are totally repressed. china doesn't quite understand capitalism, and it will matter after basic infrastructure is built. ask the ussr in the early 70's, after things looked so rosy in the 60s. "we will bury you" lol
    6 Aug 2011, 12:33 PM Reply Like
  • Vuke
    , contributor
    Comments (1645) | Send Message
     
    >>>Our government takes ownership through regulation and taxes.<<<

     

    TVP, this is a profound and succinct observation on a difficult to understand subject. Few realize just how skewed an economy can become under the friendly "oversight" of those who have little idea of what they're doing. Thanks for expressing it so well.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:58 PM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    the ironic thing is aside from what I mention above, China is a keynesian paradise. The US could learn something from that aspect of china's fiscal policy. On the other hand, China could learn from the US about free markets and political/religious freedom.
    6 Aug 2011, 01:01 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    "Even if we eliminated regulations, what would that do? Just increase pollution, reduce labor laws...a string of bad things for us. "

     

    The EPA nearly pulled off crap-n-tax by a coup d'etat last year which would have netted over $400 billion a year based on a foundation of lies and that would have been 'a string of bad things for us.'

     

    We don't deserve our empire anymore.

     

    China laughs at the stupidity of americans.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Considering that China is jettisoning its SOEs faster than the Titanic, it seems your claim makes no sense whatsoever.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    And healthcare.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:10 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3080) | Send Message
     
    Add to that investments from public worker pension funds and municipals. The same thing exists in much of Europe. If policy restricted these government entities from investing in private companies, then no one could claim a conflict of interest, but who would ever pass such legislation.
    6 Aug 2011, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • buyitcheap
    , contributor
    Comments (1850) | Send Message
     
    Zorro, please move here and run for president, since apparently you don't need to be a US born citizen... (joke) The above can be your platform..
    6 Aug 2011, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    China has a better Bernie Madoff type capitalism than we do. Copyright laws infringed arbitrarily, favoritism with SOE's and the latest is the reverse mergers with US companies accompaniedd by false earnings report. They are nothing more than fancy thieves. They make for a good trade though, made 40,000 off them trading. Problem is the last one holds the bag full of...you get the idea.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:20 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Free Market and China are antonyms, not synonyms.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:21 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    They are like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. They don't want you to look but it is impossible not to notice if you really want to know how things are working. They have met the invisible hand of Adam Smith and all of its benefits with another invisible hand of regulation and taxes and thereby thwarted capitalism. The latter takes an army of government employees to centrally plan and run and we know what has happened to USG employment.
    8 Aug 2011, 02:29 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tomas -

     

    You neglect to also mention the invisible hand (at least too many responsible people choose not to see it before the 2007/8 meltdown) in the form of the credit bubble created by the financial industry when the regulations that had bounded their scope of activities in the wake of the Great Depression were significantly reduced or unenforced.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:26 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Bob

     

    Are you nuts? The FG has been the biggest mortgage player for many decades in the US and has distorted and pushed capital into the housing market for over 60 years. The private industry was gutted of credit underwriting best practices as the USG took it over and pushed for higher and higher home ownership rates. Well the got what they wanted.

     

    Blaming the private sector for a public sector goal is exonerating the biggest criminal in the room.

     

    We have not seen an invisible hand in the mortgage market since the early 20th century.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:57 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tomas -

     

    We in Canada, broadly speaking, have since the end of WW II had a similar federal government agency insurance for residential mortgages system not unlike that in the US. We have also allowed our banks to securitize mortgage and consumer debt holdings so as to raise money with which to make further loans. We did, however, avoid the excessive deregulation of both the banks and residential mortgage insurance that marked the two decades in the US before 2007 (although a newly elected Conservative Party Federal Government in the years just before 2007 was beginning to undue the safeguards the Liberal Party Government before them had put in place over the years - happily not too much damage had been done by the Conservatives by 2008 and Canada weathered the global meltdown and credit crunch rather well because our financial system remained sound).

     

    You may yearn for a golden age of miniscule government and unfettered markets (and you and your fellow US citizens can certainly choose to go in that or any other direction that you democratically choose). Freedom can take many forms and 'to each his own'.
    8 Aug 2011, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Bob

     

    You had 20% down on home purchases too which is a great cure for all other evils. I really know credit underwriting so let's not pretend this is smart government policy.

     

    Also you are fortunate that you have a lot of natural resources or you would be talking about serious lack of economic growth and the lack of opportunity in Canada land.
    8 Aug 2011, 01:47 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tomas -

     

    Actually the 20% down requirement for government agency mortgage insurance was one of the features that the Conservative Government, about 7 years ago, weakened and mortgages with as low as 5% down were being written at various times thereafter. Happily when the global credit crunch came after the 2008 meltdown a substantial portion of the residential mortgage portfolios of the banks, credit unions etc. had not fallen to the 5% level and, as government stimulus and central bank monetary easing propped up the housing market, foreclosures and underwater equity did not become significant issues.

     

    It is a bit of a myth that Canada is essentially a producer of commodities and primary products. For example, it is a little known fact that Canada's manufacturing sector is a larger component in its economy than manufacturing is in the US economy. On the other hand, while our economy is now quite diverse and becoming more so, it is true that resource related aspects remain a significant factor. All I'm saying here is that resources and primary production is only one element in our economy and the stability and growth of our economy is not solely attributable to that element by any means.
    8 Aug 2011, 05:21 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Bob

     

    I would take the credit underwriting standards in Canada over the US pre 2008 any day of the week. Credit underwriting in the US was insane pre 2008.

     

    Got your point on "substantial component." Here in the US we have a more fragile economy in some respects as we are harnessing inputs and creating outputs for value. Any entity that gums that up drives down growth.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:29 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I know you guys make great Jeeps!
    10 Aug 2011, 10:40 PM Reply Like
  • Ove Sentlig
    , contributor
    Comments (32) | Send Message
     
    S&P erring??
    OK, go ahead then, increase the budget deficit every month and every year, abolish the debt ceiling as unpatriotic and print all the dollars imaginable. If S&P rates the US down to CCC, just disregard it as an error, because nothing can ever be wrong in this great country. God bless America.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:27 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    " so what " says it all............. When you live in a fiat world..
    Do as the Americans' do............... I will keep buying PMs and not ETFs......... My family will live on after me.........

     

    God bless us ALL......................
    6 Aug 2011, 08:33 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    You know what's funny. You and gold. What's the use of gold at 10,000 per ounce if you are makeing 12,000 a month working at Burger King. Inflation has a price, everything goes up, not just gold. I do own physical but more to the effect for makeing high end jewelry.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:53 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    nmelendez, there will come a time soon that wearing gold jewelry will be a BRAVE thing to do. I keep looking at the headlines and there stealing everything that is sellable. Aluminum, iron sewer caps, copper gutters , highway rails............ Jewelry was always a snatchers choice..........

     

    That's what not funny......... I wear a 9mm on the belt with a permit.

     

    But, that is just me. Did it in Nevada too..................... lol
    6 Aug 2011, 09:00 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    PS.......... you know where I live........ A full plate of food is $ 1.55.
    Meat, salad, rice , beans and a cooked banana..

     

    If it goes to 5 bucks. I still will buy it......... In the US yep $ 10,000.

     

    But with Mrs. O maybe the calories will be less.... there you go,buddy
    6 Aug 2011, 09:03 AM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    I know you mean well golf, but do you realize that if gold made it to $10k that the US gov. would have more in gold reserves, by $ value, than base US currency in circulation? not going to happen
    6 Aug 2011, 09:42 AM Reply Like
  • Ove Sentlig
    , contributor
    Comments (32) | Send Message
     
    So you think the amount of base currency in circulation would not change? QE3, QE4, etc.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I'll just go fish it. Golfito, got me a solar heater for when the power goes, hot water stays hot for 5 days, 82 gallons. 1 Kw for my emergency lights and dish. 500 W wind turbine. Got me 1 acre with bananas, avocados, breadfruit and prickly pear. Got chickens..but no gun. I do have a nice 175 lb crossbow, arrows are retreavable...jejeje.
    I also have some gold and silver but to me, i can't eat it, wear it or do anything with it.
    I am not a pessimist, i used to fish crawdads in the river and cook them out in the country. Best eating ever. I fish and also eat the fish. There is so much food out there that all you need to do is go get it. City folks, those i feel sorry for.
    As for wearing gold jewelry, i got my watch and that's about all i wear and it's not gold.
    7 Aug 2011, 10:31 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    What's a 175 lb. crossbow?
    7 Aug 2011, 10:47 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    muy bueno, you got it....... I will be fine too. Love my crossbow. best tool ever invented..........

     

    City folks... agree 100%....... like I comment often. The people around me have water. No electric and they ride there horses past my house all day. If the financial world collapes they might not know it unless there kids come home from school an tell them.......

     

    Sorry for any slights......... Anyway, i did admit it. My hero is a Dem.

     

    Please read what he has to say..... he will be right again.. chao, gb

     

    www.cnbc.com/id/44055868
    8 Aug 2011, 06:53 AM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    if this gets people to spend dollars (out of fear that they'll lose value), it could have an expansionary effect. perhaps the increased interest rates would cancel out the effect, but at least the Fed could actually accomplish something, having been lifted out of the zero interest lower bound.
    the worst case scenario is if people feel the need to use their dollars on gold or other imported commodities
    6 Aug 2011, 08:39 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I am getting me a 10,000 dollar loan and paying it out slowly, gotta buy more stocks.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:06 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    From who ? Chavez ?
    6 Aug 2011, 09:11 AM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    golfit
    Fact - Stealing Sewer Caps is not a sign of an impending crash.
    Sealing Stops signs would be.

     

    When you vote in a pro union, socialist schooled, community organizer, you will get what you got. All theory and not much else. Lots of liberal big government entitlements, a nanny state and all the debt that comes with it.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:12 AM Reply Like
  • catamount
    , contributor
    Comments (374) | Send Message
     
    Do your hands ever get tired of all the waving?

     

    At least you got all of Limbaugh's talking points into one paragraph, but it would be _amazing_ if you suddenly realized we are in two unfunded wars, and that SS and Medicare are fully self-funded/ solvent.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:11 AM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    Correction, Catmo - Three Unfunded Wars. Or don't you read the papers? I don't know anyone who watches this Limbaugh guy, but do hear that he does not care much for the anointed one.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:25 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Mad, I am old now, but, looking back all the teachers I had with so liberal it is sad...

     

    I always thought Reagan hit the nail on the head quoting Winston Churchill ..Saying if your 20 and not liberal something is wrong with you ,but, if your 40 and not conservative something is really wrong with you.............
    I think that saying summed US society up perfectly.

     

    Then over the past 30 years the Democrats used their secret weapon...... A weapon more powerful then the one President Slick Willy Lewinsky aka Clinton unleashed as he left office with his Executive Order legalizing the CDSs..... That turned the world into a casino ,but, the worst weapon of America was Barney Frank... That moron is responsible for almost everything that put us where we are today.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:27 AM Reply Like
  • Mad_Max_A_Million
    , contributor
    Comments (1175) | Send Message
     
    Gotit - You sound like a sensible guy. If you want a well rounded look at where we are headed, follow Rick Santelli.
    He pops up most mornings on CNBC. The talking heads hate him.
    Follow that with Stewart Varney on FBC and you're ready to hit the road.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:54 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Mad, love the Rickster.. No CNBC down here... We only have satellite and it is SKY........... Ruppert didn't get the whole thing ,but, he still has half ,so, Fox is it unless I want to watch the communist news network with the same initials CNN international..

     

    Rick is the poppa of the Tea Party... I have watched him go off against Prof. Liesman ( the commy dem) many times and he is right 110% of the time... Only see youtubes now. Remember his first day on CNBC.

     

    Varney,,,,,, all he is is a vioce and we don'r get FBN and we can't demand it.... No espanol
    6 Aug 2011, 12:05 PM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2711) | Send Message
     
    catamount: "and that SS and Medicare are fully self-funded/ solvent."

     

    We'll give you a chance to fix the typo.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:11 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    spauld_fr.......... SS & Medicare were fully funded !

     

    But, there were in Al Gore's basement in the lock box. Then Al got divorced from the Tipster and the judge gave Tip the Medicare money and Al invested the S/S money in global cooling and lost it all......
    6 Aug 2011, 12:19 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Santelli, Peter Schiff even Rogers; its all just common sense & grandfatherly advice, things most of us should already know but since there are many who believe the lie, it sounds like pearls of knowledge.

     

    Seeing a car nearing a cliff at 120 mph. Everyone knows that there's just not enough physics in the known universe to keep its treads on the road when it has to jake a right.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:17 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    "Fact - Stealing Sewer Caps is not a sign of an impending crash.
    Stealing Stops signs would be." LMFAO ROFL good one!!!!!
    7 Aug 2011, 10:34 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Pol Pot was a teacher and was very popular with students. 1.5 million dead later and we have a real teaching moment.
    9 Aug 2011, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Idi Amin was very charismatic, especially in front of a western media. Some said sophisticated, others 'very charming' up close.

     

    Unfortunately, he had a pêchant for making amputees out of his political enemies.
    10 Aug 2011, 02:15 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Clearly foreign observers were shaken and not stirred by the brew of events of the past week in US affairs. It is clear that, like Americans, the world at large will take some time to fully assess and respond seriously to these events and what they might reasonably portend. Here is a selection of foreign newspaper reports and commentary giving initial reactions as of August 6th. The Economist (to me at least) appears to be the most interesting.

     

    english.people.com.cn/...

     

    www.china.org.cn/world...

     

    www.economist.com/blog...

     

    www.guardian.co.uk/bus...

     

    www.spiegel.de/interna...

     

    www.irishtimes.com/new...

     

    www.theglobeandmail.co.../

     

    business.financialpost.../
    6 Aug 2011, 11:06 AM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3080) | Send Message
     
    Nice reading list there. I found myself nodding in agreement many times, especially on the Economist article. It seems at times that the United States is in denial.
    6 Aug 2011, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The Economist article is just another in a long line of articles and points of view of western politicians and writers who continually underestimate the weight of the debt and the dangers of too much leverage. In the US leverage has moved from the private sector to the public sector and as we all know excess leverage did not work well for the private sector. Now balance sheets of companies look solid and consumer's balance sheets have improved. The USG balance sheet looks bad and the trajectory looks absolutely terrible.

     

    His other point about solvency being related to willingness to pay has always been true but apparently it is a revelation to him. Why would any debtor want to pay off something that restricts their freedom to a large extent? That is where the US is today.

     

    The author apparently does not know much about the US or people because we have always had political fighting and trash talking. In addition why would anyone receiving a check want to give it up for the good of the country and why would a politician who wants that person's vote want to give it up? The author is an idiot.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:43 AM Reply Like
  • Johann Galt
    , contributor
    Comments (235) | Send Message
     
    China publicly announced the need for a different reserve currency (they propose gold based, prob because they own alot of gold).

     

    More disturbing is that China also demanded, as the US's biggest creditor, that the US drastically reduce military spending. Just to protect their investment, of course.

     

    Oh, what could possibly go wrong with further deficit spending!?!
    6 Aug 2011, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    JG, that is the key to this new gang of 12

     

    "Oh, what could possibly go wrong with further deficit spending"

     

    The Dems will do nothing at the meeting and accomplish there goal....... Automatic military cuts... They actually won the negotiation even though the Reps are pounding there chests..... This group will just campaign and not agree on a freeking thing...
    6 Aug 2011, 11:32 AM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2711) | Send Message
     
    John Galt,

     

    Even Vlad Putin was complaining this past week about US government spending and debt. Then the Chinese came out and said virtually the same thing.

     

    Our largest creditors are sounding like they've joined the TEA Party, expecting fiscal responsibility and payment of our debts!
    6 Aug 2011, 12:16 PM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    G2Bob,

     

    With your republican sympathies, I'm not sure you realize the base ironic content of your comments when you allude to the third world paradise that you currently inhabit.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Life......... Paradise or pair or dice.

     

    I am fine.. I vote and my voice is worth as much as your voice ... Vote wise too ...

     

    So, even though I chose a less expensive location I can still cancel your vote out with a stamp...cool
    6 Aug 2011, 01:06 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Now is the time for China & Russia along with Iran to strike and strike hard!

     

    If they do it together there will be no one who can oppose them.

     

    China will swallow up Taiwan. Sure Taiwan will fight back, but it will be an inevitability.

     

    Russia will invade the South and take back her breadbasket and parts of Eastern Europe.

     

    Iran will do what its been wanting to do for decades now and we all know what that is.

     

    Welcome to World War 4 boys and girls(if you include the Cold War).

     

    This is what happens. This is history repeated time and again. America used to be able to act as a hegemon, a cap on the spread of empire. Now, like a cage fighter that has had its adrenaline glands excised, it can do nothing except watch the destruction.

     

    We used to be a superpower.

     

    Now we are superman. And our debt is being lowered over us like kryptonite. And we can't do a damn thing about it.

     

    Thanks FDR, LBJ.

     

    Thanks for the ride of lies.

     

    It was fun while it lasted.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:23 PM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    he isn't real, he is here for comedic effect and to make repubs look bad. I keep forgetting this, Why do I keep falling for this :)
    6 Aug 2011, 02:31 PM Reply Like
  • catamount
    , contributor
    Comments (374) | Send Message
     
    WJ: Just die already, please. We don't need any more warmongering, old-aged, greedy people in this country. We need rational people that would like to promote the greater good, and you are the complete opposite. Leave your ~$5M to your kids while they can actually use it.

     

    Edit: Noting superpatrol's comment, I feel pretty stupid right now. As a true Republican, not a Federalist masquerading as one, these WJ posts bring out the worst in me. Jefferson specifically said we need to mock the irrational people lest they convince fellow idiots to join their cause.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Hey Cat, is this you?

     

    www.youtube.com/watch?...
    6 Aug 2011, 04:05 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, history really isn't littered with wars. Mankind has risen above it.

     

    Ignore the debt. Even if its one of the main causes of global war.

     

    Everything's going to be fine in your world isn't it?
    6 Aug 2011, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • catamount
    , contributor
    Comments (374) | Send Message
     
    WJ: There are no pictures or videos of me on the web. I'm a developer, not an idiot. I must admit you were drawing my ire until it was pointed out that you were a troll. Like most trolls, you seem intelligent, but at the same time your goals do not align with most (or mine), and seem solely intent on drawing controversy. Good luck.

     

    P.S. Remember this: Discussions are not created equally, and ideas> events> people - Eleanor Roosevelt (roughly paraphrased)
    6 Aug 2011, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Yes, and the Teabaggers (Republicans) will say NO, NO, NO, NO, and NO accomplishing their goal.
    6 Aug 2011, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    In that case, let's close down the Post Office!!!
    6 Aug 2011, 09:55 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Now we are super mom.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:44 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    cat

     

    Wyatt seems pretty rationale to me and he throws in humour to boot just to help people absorb the weight of the words. He is hitting on another key issue which is we in the US are in no shape to take on any more foreign adventures so the power vacuum is there and we will see who steps in. It is never vacant for long.

     

    If you think we don't have a lot of wars then go through the last 100 years and count them up and all the dead along with them. If past is prologue then brace yourself.

     

    Jefferson looks pretty irrational to me with his Declaration of Independence but yet a slave owner and held one as his mistress. A lot of glass in Monticello.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:54 AM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    WhackJob,

     

    With these comments you have demonstrated that you have totally lost it:

     

    1) I wish I could understand the fundamental whack job premise that we have to destroy the US in some sort of Goetterdammerung extreme-right-wing fantasy to save it.

     

    2a) China: In terms of any military activity, you are a drug addled rube. First of all, while the infantry side of the US military is tied up, the reality is that the USN and the air force are barely breaking a sweat. In order to invade Taiwan, there would have to be a huge movement of material/men towards the coast. Taiwanese spys (which are all over China) and US recon satellites would immediately detect this. The first step in a soft power response to this would be to sell tons of military hardware (can you say F-16?) to Taiwan that the Chinese really hate and levy a US import tariff on Chinese goods. Additional irritating steps would be to upgrade relations with Vietnam and establish a Phillipines/US base in the spratleys. If it comes to war in the Taiwan straits, there are a bunch of restless US subdrivers and 6 USN carrier battle groups just sitting around. Oh and a little known unclassified feature of several platforms (B-2, B-52, and US submarines) is that they can dump naval mines. The Air force will come up with further creative ways to participate. I wonder how the Chinese have wargamed their LST's versus drones with Hellfire missles? On the economic side, oil will shoot up for the worlds number one manufacturer, shipping insurance to China will skyrocket and all those clever outsourcing decisions based on cost by US corporations will now be hedged.

     

    2b) Russia. Russia's military is in a decrepit state. If I use the logic of right wing extremist's, since we are fat and happy, then the socialist paradises of Europe should be ripe take over targets, not! Russia would lose against Finland and the US/western Europe would be shoveling weapons by tons into eastern Europe. Finally, in terms of south Russia, have you forgotten the first Afghanistan/ Russia friendly? In just the Ukraine alone, Russia would get chewed up.

     

    2c) Iran's military is mostly tied up making sure the average joe uses the crosswalk.

     

    3) Finally as a response to your China/russsia uber alles fantasy, they have many problems. Russia is demographically collapsing due to the huge loss of life from WW2. China has many off balance sheet liabilities such as corruption, pollution, clean water, rule of law and food importation among other mundane issues. Both China and Russia will fight a losing war against the internet.

     

    While the financial expertise of the extreme right wing doesn't extend beyond understanding the chart of accounts for liquor stores and pawn shops, the US has lost good will because the perception of a good part of the world will be that white guys get the easy debt extension and people of color get hassled. As a reminder the Chinese, Japanese and all the other non-Europeans don't see themselves as "white".

     

    Finally I never have any of the following right wing cogitative disconnects explained:

     

    i) If you worship in the primacy of markets, barring our recent attempt to shoot ourselves in the foot, why aren't the markets reflecting your Goetterdammerung fantasies?

     

    2) If the majority of the country thinks like you, then why are you guys going the Fuehrerbunker route since you'll be surrounded by like minded individuals like yourselves?
    7 Aug 2011, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Monngie,, the freeking Post Offices are closing on there own.. I can vote at the Embassy.......... And Obama an Clinton might have a party and not know where there sucking up tax payer money with them. ha ha.. ha ha ha

     

    And, Better to close the DNC... Then you'll all have to read and learn your talking points. Try doing it without your NBCs and CBSc more importantly from the little fagett Zakaria .. The little Mumbi n word. Obama never cut the anal embilical cord on that puppy.
    7 Aug 2011, 05:43 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Don't get caught up in your knickers. The point is there is a power vacuum opening up as we retreat. Someone is going to step in. China is already asserting itself economically and politically. Next is militarily.

     

    If Obama is looked at as being goofy and weak then it could be very problematic.

     

    My sense is that China will just continue to expand economically and politically and will not need to fire one shot to eventually dominate the world scene. We will be the fat and out of shape gridiron heroes from yesteryear.

     

    However if they have internal problems they might look to focus their people on an external enemy. Nothing like a common enemy to hold people together.
    8 Aug 2011, 02:47 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    American wars are driven by public support. Check Vietnam; it was the dismal start of a new trend of a weak America. We're already suffering from protracted war fatigue thanks to MoveOn, Huffpo, an entire political party and the dumb clapping monkeys who watch Jon Stewart like yourself. Rosie the riveter? More like Rosie O'Donnell.

     

    So, internet johnny badass, tell me. How are we going to fund several new fronts? Sell American war bonds??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Good one! We can't even pay for the wars we're in now! You think today's Americans will even buy a war bond? Half of them don't even like their own country anymore. And as to war(as a general concept), they've all been propagandized into leftist plebes baaaaaaahing that mongering is eviiiiil.

     

    And anyway, we're already getting our regular bonds downgraded as we speak with further downgrades more to come, let alone instituting some new-fangled, non-credible war bond. And tell me, what kind of interest rate would they pay for it? How would they even afford it? We're already floating so damn much debt to begin with, I guess according to you most Americans would gladly just plow into s'more, right? Show me the America I used to know that no longer exists. Show me the America that will bone TF up and go to bat for Taiwan! Show me how its even possible, moron.

     

    Russia has rusty nukes. They can use them to ransom whoever they want. Putin is no Stalin, but perhaps El Duce. And they can step their foot down on the European pipelines and stop the flow of oil. Whose to stop them? Europe doesn't believe in war. They only fund socialism now. They couldn't do JS about it, kid.

     

    Who said anything about Iran's military? Do you even know the dynamics here? The mullahs are in charge. The jihadis. To lay a mushroom cloud on Tel Aviv has been their wet dream for 40 years. Military? HAHAHAHAHA! You naive dilweed. All they care about is pressing one button and if Israel presses five more, they don't care. Iran is run by religious fanatics. If they nuke Israel, they get 24/7/365 heavenly virgins like some eternal strip club.

     

    And hey, learn to write, k?

     

    "While the financial expertise of the extreme right wing doesn't extend beyond understanding the chart of accounts for liquor stores and pawn shops, the US has lost good will because the perception of a good part of the world will be that white guys get the easy debt extension and people of color get hassled. "

     

    What does this even mean? A little cognitive dissonance, perhaps?

     

    Yeah, good closer there.

     

    Oh, and one more thing, Goetterdammerunger, how about a little less spittle in your posts and more FuehrerBUNkerererer duh urrr.

     

    LOL.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:13 AM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Monngie, dem or rep I am sure your a proud America. I am as well even though I moved for strictly financial reasons. I am happy ,but, with what I get every month living anyware in the US isn't really possible. 6 years from now when I can collect S/S many I can move back ,but, it isn't likely...........It is pretty cheap here with great weather and I have a wife now. She has made 3 trips to the US and she will not move there !

     

    Since you love your country please know this........... No No No No really isn't the truth...... Our ( yours an mine) Congress only care about themselves ! We both know that and since neither one will make a deal this horrible deal a/k/a smoke screen gang of 12 council will do nothing again. And, those automatic cuts will do the job and both sides will campaign saying we held our ground...

     

    O/K ,but, those automatic cuts will smash our army and hurt in areas that are not used to buy votes......... They screwed us both and protected themselves.

     

    Really, think about it....... You an me lost ! They won.. Before the bi-porkism worked. The party in power allowed there buddies on the other side to take a little beacon home. Now there supposedly is none ,so they brilliantly came up with another way to pay for there home bases.................... Think man ! gb
    8 Aug 2011, 06:45 PM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    Dear Mr Mounting Cat. It is you who need to lie down in a cool place with some liquids and re-hydrate. You've become irrational and imbecilic. It's the heat. We're sorry. You can take a nice, long nap and come back when you've recovered your IQ.
    If you're a developer, I think it's time to go back and recompile - your error handlers aren't working the way they should, and your Socialist If/then statements are doing loops.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:00 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    golfitobob, I really am having a hard time disagreeing with you. None of these problems seem insurmountable to me. I think it really is the idiots on both sides that make it so. There are about 5 things that need to be done. I don't regard them as difficult and in 5-8 years we'd be in "tall cotton". If I can figure that out certainly our village idiots in DC can. But, I think the interests of the American people are being overlooked in lieu of special interests and foreign entanglements.

     

    And then of course they sheer the "investment sheep" periodically. I got my haircut just like a lot of people this week.

     

    I think in previous posts you mentioned you live in Panama. I have to tell you that I envy you for living down there. It does sound idyllic and It sounds like you have a wonderful life going on down there. Cherish every second. I do wish you all the happiness you can get.
    10 Aug 2011, 01:13 AM Reply Like
  • nobby73
    , contributor
    Comments (1177) | Send Message
     
    It's hard to pretend that the politicians will do everything necessary in order to bring deficits under control, when one side is ideologically opposed to raising taxes and the other to cutting spending. In fact, what you have is a recipe for disaster, which is exactly where we are heading.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:08 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Don't fall for the rhetoric. Taxes would contribute nada to this debt crunch super cycle bubble. NADA.

     

    There is only one solution(cut spending) and the dems just stuck a stiletto heel into it and ground it out.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:26 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    If raising taxes won't help the debt, then it can't hurt to raise them either.

     

    But, like I've said before. Not raising taxes is like someone up to their neck in debt saying that they are going to pay their debts by reducing the hours they work.

     

    I just doesn't add up Wyatt.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    "If raising taxes won't help the debt, then it can't hurt to raise them either."

     

    Yes it can, by decreasing incentives to grow.

     

    "But, like I've said before. Not raising taxes is like someone up to their neck in debt saying that they are going to pay their debts by reducing the hours they work."

     

    Correction. When you're up to your neck in debt, you stop spending and continue working. Might even ask your boss for a little overtime.

     

    Hope this helps Beavis. Not everyone will get 'a duh' moment. You still have time to come correct.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:17 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Just wait till fannie and freddie declare chapter 7. 3 trillion of the debt wiped out with one pen stroke. China has most Fannie and freddie bonds? oops, sorry......
    7 Aug 2011, 10:41 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    You will have to excuse my disagreement but if what you say is true we should be in hog heaven with the Bush Tax cuts. Sorry but the facts don't corroborate your statement. If we were in a perfect world socialism would be the best government style, but we are not in a perfect world. In a perfect world child labor and slavery would not exist but we are not in a perfect world. In a perfect world capitalism would reinvest equally between stockholders and employees and greed would not be an issue...but we are not in a perfect world.
    Trickle down economics does not work.
    7 Aug 2011, 10:46 PM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    Have any of you people ever read some history books? Maybe a few biographies? You sound like a bunch of rejects from Middle School. Golly, this is depressing.
    Also, no one on the right has suggested shutting it all down. Stop dealing in such harsh blacks and whites about what just happened. After all that dramatic whinnying and caterwauling, hardly ANYTHING was cut. THAT's WHY THE DOWNGRADE!
    Golly, this is depressing.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:07 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    nmelendez,,,,,,,,,, " wait until fannie and freddie declare chapter7"

     

    You sir are the Jerry Seinfeld of S A..

     

    I am not the brightest bulb on S A ,but, those two companies stocks were delisted. And, together you can't get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks if you sell a shre of each.. Crap, not even at Dunkin D........

     

    woops they are asking for more tax payer dollars and Barney is looking in his wallet.!
    9 Aug 2011, 06:10 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    What would clarify this debate for everyone is defining how big the US Federal Government should be and how intrusive should they be in state and local affairs and every day life. The slugfest we are in now is a left wing that wants no cieling on their spending and a right wing that says shut it all down as it is out of control. Neither of these extremes is a good idea by any measure.

     

    The left wing is making this very difficult as they will not put any cards on the table with respect to the level of spend that they believe is enough. That number is a point everyone can plan around and understand if it makes sense. Failure to commit to anything means the left wing is committing to nothing but drunken spending and recklessness. The far right in response is saying turn off the spigots as they note that federal spending has not went down in over 40 years so the debate is a joke. At this point we need the Dems to commit to something otherwise we face more downgrades and political turmoil when we should be moving forward and doing something worthwhile.

     

    From an economics viewpoint the USG appetite appears to be around 25% of GDP. That is too high in my view. Layer on state and local taxes and many taxpayers are working for government for 4 to 6 months. Whatever the case once the level of USG spend is identified then the tax system can be looked at to see how the money will be collected versus the current mess we have now.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:01 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Hi Tomas –

     

    This may be another one of those fleeting moments in which you and I actually, at least in part, agree. The way I’d put it is that it’s natural and healthy that there are a variety of often conflicting assessments of what the problems are and how these should be addressed. This is especially the case at times like these when so many major economic, fiscal, social and political challenges are of urgent and immediate concern. This, however, can’t be the whole story.

     

    What isn’t necessary or healthy is for the political process to become unduly focused on electoral gamesmanship and demonization of electoral opponents to the exclusion of serious debate about how to effectively address those major challenges and of the need to find ways to cooperate wherever practical across Party lines to meet these challenges. To this better end, should not the public expect the proponents of various factions of the leading Parties to be clearly explaining how they would propose to change public policy and describe why this would be beneficial and how in detail these reforms should be achieved (and what price in terms of higher taxes and lost benefits must be paid).

     

    In short, should not political leaders be judged increasingly at present on how practical and appropriate their policies would prove to be if adopted rather that how best they can off-side their political opponents in the great political game? The converse approach, which has characterized the past three or so years, has not worked to the advantage of the general public good.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:47 PM Reply Like
  • spald_fr
    , contributor
    Comments (2711) | Send Message
     
    [The slugfest we are in now is a left wing that wants no cieling on their spending and a right wing that says shut it all down as it is out of control. Neither of these extremes is a good idea by any measure]

     

    Unfortunately, *enforcement* is way, way up regardless of what the left or the right embrace.

     

    There are too many police in the USA. They've become para-military units all trained by the same police madrasses as custodians of society, in many instances above the law.

     

    Here we have the BATF running guns (and now apparently, narcotics) with the mexican drug cartels right on the Mexican border. The BATF shipped thousands of high-powered automatic rifles (in the MSM parlance, "assault weapons") to mexican terrorists.

     

    The USA is guilty of state-supported terrorism. And we have an out-of-control police agency because the lefties and the righties cannot agree on overview.

     

    These are the results of the "extreme" situation of which you refer.
    6 Aug 2011, 01:08 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3080) | Send Message
     
    Very well written and stated. The unwinding of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to be replaced with private entities, could be the model forward for other government run institutions. Just like privatization can help Greece, it could help the United States.
    6 Aug 2011, 04:16 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    True, but each of the respective societies you mention will have to relearn the basics of capitalism while the political order maintains respect for private property law. Not likely.

     

    Look at Cuba last year.

     

    www.cbsnews.com/storie...

     

    They had to lay off 500,000 public state run employees. The problem? They don't know how 'to do' capitalism anymore. They've been institutionalized. Castro robbed them of incentives for so long that they don't know how to be self reliant. Its foreign to them. Look at how long it took Russia to figure this out and they're still not getting it, thus the rise of the oligarchies over there.

     

    The longer government paternalism lasts and the more it grows, the smaller the individual becomes and the economy shrinks. Going backwards from that requires inspiration and leadership. All we are getting from the WH is more big labor party rallying cliches from 1945.
    6 Aug 2011, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • catamount
    , contributor
    Comments (374) | Send Message
     
    WJ: With comments like these, you make me question whether or not you are a troll, because I fundamentally agree with your core premise here (not sure about the facts you claim).

     

    Centralized government power and influence needs to be reduced significantly.
    6 Aug 2011, 06:29 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    I find it telling that you say the Dems need to commit, but, say nothing about the Repubs. They need to commit to a tax structure that prevailed before the Bush tax cuts.

     

    Pretty much agree with everything else and I'm a lefty.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:08 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    THANK YOU BOB. I thought I was having a senior moment agreeing with Thomas. It was comforting for me to know you agreed as well.

     

    Geez, maybe we're on to something here.

     

    Is it possible the lights might come on in DC too???????
    6 Aug 2011, 10:11 PM Reply Like
  • Tom in Texas
    , contributor
    Comments (352) | Send Message
     
    "They need to commit to a tax structure that prevailed before the Bush tax cuts."

     

    And the budget that prevailed.
    6 Aug 2011, 11:04 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    The tax structure will likely look like something well before GWB took more people off the tax roles and cut the upper brackets. Everyone should pay Federal taxes and we can debate if it should be flat or progressive to some extent.

     

    The key issue that we have to get past is how big should the government be? How much of GDP should they be spending? The far right represented by the TP's has emerged because the far left did not want to answer this question. Now we have a real intense fight that is important to resolve. And resolve quickly because if we hit another recession we will be at $20 Trillion in debt so quickly it will be devastating to the country. Then it will be pure butcher block cuts.
    7 Aug 2011, 03:05 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    TVP,
    The problem is the government privitizes something, then uses my tax money to pay for it! In effect i am subsidizing a private corporation! If it's private the government should not be giving it one red penny. If you need something you purchase it. That's my problem with all this debt talk. A voucher system for medicare? C'mon, we all know where that's going. The same direction Social Security would if Bush had put our funds in the stock market.
    7 Aug 2011, 10:53 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Govt. mandates you buy worker's comp if you start a business. Then forces you to prop up the insurance industry(Farmers, StateWide, Allstate) to keep up with the regs, propping up an entire industry. Govt. mandates you smog your car. Then forces you to go to some private business like Smog-N-Go to get it tested. The govt. is real good at mandating something, passing a law and forcing you to comply with it, even if it means spending loads of wasted money.

     

    Locally its even worse with the permitting process. Whether its backtesting water or soil or running an EIR, you are forced to lob thousands of money at the feet of their cronies(in the 'private' sector) at planning. Then the guys in planning, once they 'retire' with a pension, go to work at those private companies as 'consultants'. So how that works?

     

    Isn't government grand?
    7 Aug 2011, 11:02 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    nm

     

    If government was not so large they would not have the tax money to subsidize private industry. Once you create a beast they need the ecosystem to live off and so they sustain it for their own benefit. And they especially like an ecosystem they control.

     

    Big government and big business go hand in hand.
    8 Aug 2011, 02:52 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Bob

     

    Ideal political state you put forth but here in the US the election season never seems to die and leadership is lacking across the board. Everyone is what I call a "bus chucker" which is someone looking to throw someone else under the bus for any problem that exists.

     

    Obama has really good verbal skills but he does not use them to lead debate but rather place blame which is a waste. Frankly I don't believe he can lead the debate because he does not believe or understand a message that the American people will buy or support. So he demagouges and chucks people under the bus.
    8 Aug 2011, 02:55 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tomas -

     

    Here in Canada we play a mean and free-wheeling game of politics as well but most of the time avoid the sort of excessive partisan deadlocks you are now experiencing. Even during the height of our constitutional crisis in the 1980s this was the case.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12962) | Send Message
     
    Bob:

     

    It's easy to avoid deadlocks in any parliamentary system, where the party in power controls a majority (i.e., no coalition). That's the beauty of the system: the party in power controls the government (both legislative and executive), by definition, and is empowered to run it. If they screw up, then, they can get voted out.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I do not know what to respond TVP. I already seen Govt privitzing on my tax dollars. Overruns on Govt projects by Private Industry. The last fiasco with holding up the FAA Tax/Fees whatever you want to call it will result in billions of dollars in payment of change orders, unemployment, loss in revenues and the only winner here are the private contractors which will recieve compensation for the work stoppage. Me, i'll have to pay out of my pocket. I have seen the Repub administration and it is no good. I think it's time to let the Dems show what they can do. As i said Republicans had their chance and they blew it, this whole mess was inherited not caused.
    8 Aug 2011, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Tack -

     

    You have the picture. The strength of the parliamentary system is that the executive is responsible to the House for the conduct of public business and both the members of the House and those in the executive are accountable to the electorate if a government falls through loss of the support of the House - hence the name 'Responsible Government' for this system. Of course, like with all systems of democratic government problems can arise. If there is a multiplicity of Parties represented in the House and stable coalitions can't be formed, then weak and unstable short term governments live from day to day. Conversely, if one Party has an overwhelming majority from election to election, then the Government likely will not be held to adequate accountability. In Canada, at any rate, Party discipline is quite strict with the advantage that the conduct of legislative business generally runs smoothly but, conversely, the electors in some ridings may feel that their member in the House does not adequately represent their special interests.

     

    The checks and balances core of your congressional system has many advantages as well but, arguably, does not respond well in the absence of a willingness to compromise across Party lines to a reasonable extent.
    8 Aug 2011, 07:59 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    nm

     

    In case you missed it we have seen both Reps and Dems run the show and both are disasters. It is hard to say GWB was a Rep fiscally so we have had 10 years of Dem like spending and now we are OOM..........out of money.

     

    Time to turn over the entire structure.
    8 Aug 2011, 11:33 PM Reply Like
  • Zmartmoney
    , contributor
    Comments (1157) | Send Message
     
    WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. The BATF did NOT ship thousands of "high-powered automatic rifles" or "assault weapons" to drug cartels. This is nonsense and injurious to our republic to propagate this BS. They sold guns just like the ones many Americans go deer hunting with each Fall, just with larger clips. They sold them to people who should NOT have been able to buy ANY GUN. I own several of them. These weapons are semi-automatic, NOT Select-fire automatic weapons. To take delivery of an automatic weapon, you have to have a special Federal Firearms license that includes the approval of the local Sheriff or Police Dept to do it. Just because something is Camo-Green doesn't make it an ASSAULT WEAPON. Let's all act like grown-ups here and speak with knowledge and not gossip.
    9 Aug 2011, 12:23 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I believe 18 o 20% GDP would be fair. I am also for a 15% flat tax, no deductions on anything. You pay 15% on any and all income. Companies can deduct salaries but that's the sum of the deductions. No more parking funds overseas. Everyone pay their share. That way it forces everyone to think on what they REALLY need to invest in, including companies.
    I beleive in SS and Medicare for one reason. We must take care of our past if we want our children to have a future.
    Problem is not the drug companies, it's the insurance companies. I have always predicated on cutting out the middleman and go one on one.
    As far as the Dems to commit, i beleive the correct comment is for both to commit. Cuts yes, revenue also. I am already paying 40% of my income in all sort of medical and taxes but the other 60% let me invest and grow.
    10 Aug 2011, 10:57 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    They don't need the BATF to ship weapons. You can special order them from Russia. Coupl RPG's, a thousand or so AK47's, oh yea, seen china's newest Aircraft carrier...oops sorry, exploration vessel. They want to explore the waters around Taiwan. Until Taiwan gets pissed and releases a couple of nukes at Bejing.
    10 Aug 2011, 11:03 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    GWB was a moron and an asshol*, and i say it with full conviction. He never paid attention to what his generals in Iraq said. It was all political propaganda like the "Mission Accomplished". SOB.
    In War College one of the required readings is Sun Tzu's "The art of War" This idiot went against every single postulate in that treaty. That's why Iraq is such a mess. And the worst part is his General's would advise him and he would ignore them. He did not give a crap about anyone. One self centered zealot. I put him in the league with Rev. jimmy jones in Guyana.
    You would have to pay me one million dollars for me to read his "sack of lies" memoirs. I hope he hurries up and dies for causing so much death and destruction so arbitrarily.
    10 Aug 2011, 11:14 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Sun Tzu is enjoyable but overrated, kind of the pop culture of war aphorisms and mostly one liners out of a B rated karate flick. I prefer reading about Caesar's ramparts and walled structures, starving out villages through fear, securing water aquifers, mass burnings and razings & salting fields, both his genius and brutality. Better than some anon, non-historical(or non-traceable) wannabe poet. And for our modern day, then there is Rommel....
    10 Aug 2011, 11:22 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    The book is over 2000 years old. And still applies today. Look at what the vietnamese did, guerilla warfare. In Iraq it is urban guerilla warfare. And here we are, 8 years later after everyone saying let's go in, whining about bring back our troops. Have not heard one single "Mission Accomplished" from anyone anymore. Many of the techniques now used are just variations, elaborate, but still variations of the book. Even Rommels panzer tank pinzer moves and his Spartan style wedge, driving through the enemy ranks and having a rear guard blowing up those chasing him and.. well you get the picture. I love tactics. But the Iraq war is nothing more than a homicidal attack on a country. A vengeful, unprovoked attack on an much inferior force. Too many people dead. And for what?
    10 Aug 2011, 11:48 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Get the Dems to commit to high teens as % of GDP and you will see deals done. However they want it appears like 25% or no cap at all.
    11 Aug 2011, 12:49 AM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Caesar and Rommel are interesting choices for a libertarian don't you think Wyatt?
    11 Aug 2011, 01:07 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    I will agree as soon as you get Republicans to commit to a 15% flat tax rate with no loopholes or deductions. This includes ALL corporations and ALL earnings including overseas and quit using public money to subsidize private industry.
    13 Aug 2011, 04:28 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    nm

     

    I have no problem with your proposal although I don't believe it is legal to tax overseas operations. Everything else you mention is better than the Byzantine system we have now.
    14 Aug 2011, 01:41 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    TVP,

     

    legality is only a law established by country which governs it's citzens at home and abroad. If a company makes money overseas i have no problem. If it needs US military support, like we provide contractors, i have no problem. But if a corporation wants US support because they are a US based company, then they pay. Otherwise move. As i said, companies do R&D in the states, make the deductions here then rake the profits worldwide. Sorry i do not agree with that.
    Personally i am for a Free trade system where companies sell and buy in each country and keep the taxes and earnings in house. If a chinese company wants to make money in the states they move here and sell here. Like Mcd and GE go in china. I am against import/export except raw materials. How they buy and sell materials can be hashed out. But until everyone pays their fair share and the Govt quits subsidzing private companies, i am dead set against any and all loopholes and tax cheats.
    14 Aug 2011, 12:34 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    What's a 'fair share'?
    14 Aug 2011, 12:45 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12962) | Send Message
     
    nm:

     

    "....I am against import/export except raw materials..."

     

    Does this mean we all get to grow our own vegetables?

     

    Seriously, you envision a world without trade? I doubt you'd want to live in it.
    14 Aug 2011, 12:54 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Why?
    14 Aug 2011, 08:59 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Everyone, 15% across the board, NO deductions. Includes ALL overseas earnings. Else do like KKR and move overseas. However don't call U.S. if things don't quite work out. I refuse to risk my neck for some cheap, lousy, ingrate company who leaves because they....waaaaaaaa i don't wanna pay taxes...waaaaaaaaaaa
    14 Aug 2011, 09:03 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Waaaaaa... I don't think they want to pay.... waaaaaaa.... 30% taxes... waaaaaaa.

     

    15%?

     

    Well, that sounds reasonable.
    15 Aug 2011, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    About time someone agrees on a flat tax amount. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!
    15 Aug 2011, 08:13 PM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    Dr. Reality comments:

     

    I see that as usual, our conservative brethren have avoided thinking at all costs:

     

    1) Why are all you conservative yutzes spouting off when a significant portion of your teat party brethren specifically said that a debt default will have minimal or no consequences? The S&P "downgrade" hasn't even approached the impact of an actual default. Any TP republican who is running for elective office will have "No Default Consequences" tatoo'ed to their low forehead by the Democrats.

     

    2) The republicans claim to be the party of business. The bright side of the AA+ downgrade is that this has to put further pressure on the dollar. This can only be good for US based manufacturing. Of course if you are the party of companies who have off-shored all your manufacturing capacity, it is bad. The Chinese in particular are in a bind because this only increases the pressure on the yuan/dollar exchange rate. Today's Chinese calls for a second reserve currency only serve to undermine efforts to keep the yuan cheap.

     

    3) The further irony is that since many countries directly or indirectly tie their currency to the USD, it will be interesting to see what the impact is on our trade deficit.

     

    4) The anti-tax republicans now see a further involuntary tax on the economy in terms of higher interest rates. I wonder have corporate America likes having their borrowing costs go up?
    6 Aug 2011, 12:26 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    867

     

    You live in the paradigm that has gotten us to this point. It will likely fail to get us out. Pull your head out of the donkey's ass and you might see some light.

     

    I vote for turning over the entire congress. Put the dinos out to pasture.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • superpatrol
    , contributor
    Comments (616) | Send Message
     
    china is full of bs. they just want to get better prices as they buy more and more dollars with their currency interventions.
    6 Aug 2011, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • catamount
    , contributor
    Comments (374) | Send Message
     
    TVP: You respond to 867's 4 points with a personal attack? You can't even attempt to refute what he wrote? I don't necessarily agree with 867, but your response is Bachman-like in its emptiness.

     

    It's fairly disconcerting that 3 people apparently agree with your comment that can be distilled down to: "Pull your head out of your ass." Brilliant.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Spoken like a true addict. Sure, sure, child, it makes it easier to think that way. *pat on the head* Now go outside and play. We'll call you in when dinners ready.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:30 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Dinner................did someone say dinner?

     

    Call me too.
    6 Aug 2011, 10:14 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Cat

     

    It is mostly political BS which has gotten us to this point. What is there to respond to that has not been responded to millions of times? I was not going down through his points I was summarizing that most it not all was just the same tired crap we have heard for years and this time from a Dem view and nothing gets done.

     

    Brilliant is sometimes not engaging in the broken paradigm.
    7 Aug 2011, 03:10 AM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Then why even participate in SA at all if all your going to do is respond with "Bachman like emptiness" to all of the comments that have been responded to a million times?

     

    Or perhaps people should not engage in your broken paradigm that's been responded to a million times.
    16 Aug 2011, 11:58 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Mon

     

    You just wake up out of a coma? Or are you the new Rip Van Winkle?

     

    My paradigm has never been tried so it is by definition not broken.

     

    I take it you are in love with Bachman. Are you going to be shrill all the way through the election cycle about her or other people you don't agree with? Attacking her hair and the color of her dress? Spare us please.
    16 Aug 2011, 02:13 PM Reply Like
  • Papaswamp
    , contributor
    Comments (2190) | Send Message
     
    Well this makes it more exciting…Germany says 'Nein!' to Italy.

     

    www.zerohedge.com/news...-
    6 Aug 2011, 12:41 PM Reply Like
  • Archman Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2385) | Send Message
     
    What does it all really mean though? Seriously.
    The nations debt clock has been running full tilt-a-whirl for decades already. There really hasn't been a surplus or balanced budget in decades anyway. It has all been smoke and mirrors.
    No real fixes will come until the real issues are dealt with:

     

    Entitlement reform and elimination.

     

    Entitlements of all kind are the one issue no one wants to deal with. The reason being: To many people in this country rely on entitlements whether they be government hand outs or entitlement type jobs that provide nothing to real GDP of this country and are paid for through nothing but pure taxation. (think police officers as an example)

     

    The reset necessary to fix our country would put 30% of all Americans out on the street with no means of survival and another 20% of Americans cutting their standard of living in half. That's what happens when you let things get so far out of hand. The worst part of it is it may just happen anyway OR our gov't and FED will default and/or print the dollars necessary to solve the problem.

     

    How to invest in this climate? I will leave that to those better qualified than I to speculate on that issue. All I know is I added to my non US holdings this week (though still taking some hits) and increasing the yield on cost on those holdings.

     

    For example, while losing some $$ on one of my non US Canadian utilities this week, this company has nothing to do with the US or its fiscal problems. That is the kind of opportunity I like to use to create long term wealth and monthly cash flows.
    6 Aug 2011, 01:20 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Agree with you on the can corps. I've been doing the same. Now its time to ramp into loonies and THEN buy can corps with them. Next step.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:32 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Archman and Wyatt -

     

    You might want to reconsider to wisdom of buying Canadian Dollars and Canadian equities in the near term. While this has been a good strategy for much of the past three years or so, it may not be so over the next couple of months for the following reasons:
    (a) The slowing of the US, EU and Japanese economies (and potentially also the Chinese, Indian etc. ones as well) currently under way is negatively impacting Canadian exports and therefore the Canadian domestic economy (and Canadian equity markets as well).
    (b) Counter-intuitively, the USD remains the global safe haven in uncertain times and the Canadian dollar exchange rate has been falling against the USD over the past week in consequence.

     

    Canada has done well in comparison to other nations over the past three years but is likely to share more closely the general fate in any second dip in the global economy.
    6 Aug 2011, 05:02 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Further to my earlier comment. Here is an opinion piece from The National Post that sets out an analysis very similar to my own but with further illustrations.

     

    fullcomment.nationalpo.../
    6 Aug 2011, 05:24 PM Reply Like
  • Archman Investor
    , contributor
    Comments (2385) | Send Message
     
    Bob:
    I like your comments and thanks for that link.
    i do agree with your comments and the article, however.... I guess I am just looking to invest in the least bad neighborhood. I have to put my money somewhere. Yes I do own food, guns, and sliver as well. I am still going to focus on building a big future income stream and most of that stream is going to come from non US companies.
    All the best and thanks again.
    6 Aug 2011, 05:34 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Archman

     

    Over the long hall you should do well by investing in Canada. My only point is that over the next couple of quarters the Canadian markets and dollar are likely to fall (giving you a better entry point perhaps?)
    6 Aug 2011, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Couldn't agree more. Canada and Australia are good places to put money.

     

    What do you think of Australia?
    6 Aug 2011, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Monngie -

     

    There are many parallels between the situation in Australia and Canada from an investment perspective. Three factors are different to a degree:
    (a) The Australian residential housing market (important for both the Australian financial industry and Australia’s economy generally) is contracting somewhat.
    (b) Australia is more involved in mineral and coal mining and export (Canada also is heavily into petroleum and natural gas production and export.
    (b) Canada remains tied to the US economy while Australia to the Asian economies.

     

    The following gives a current snapshot of the Australian equity market as of August 6th.

     

    www.theaustralian.com....
    7 Aug 2011, 12:32 AM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    If you think China is a bubble, then no to Australia.

     

    I don't. I'm with Jim Rogers which is why I've been in EWA for awhile and will continue to do so.
    7 Aug 2011, 02:20 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    I have been in Canadian companies for years. Put money in Switzerland as it is very stable. Not a high return but stable.

     

    Have money in India but it is volatile. Also Brazil.

     

    Managing money is really tough since the US has decided to turn into a non-safe haven.
    7 Aug 2011, 03:16 AM Reply Like
  • Monngie
    , contributor
    Comments (928) | Send Message
     
    Bob/Wyatt,

     

    I'm pretty heavy into Fortescue Metals Group. I've been in it for a long time and still waiting on a large payoff. They have been ramping up for years and are a few years from completing that ramp up. They have performed miracles and deliver on every promise on budget and on schedule. I've never seen a company perform like this an recommend it. Price is down good time to buy.

     

    What do you think?
    16 Aug 2011, 12:04 PM Reply Like
  • bob adamson
    , contributor
    Comments (4557) | Send Message
     
    Monngrie -

     

    I'm not personally following developments in Australian iron ore mining closely. My sense is that the boom in Iron ore development globally may abate somewhat over the next couple of years as China and India cool domestic inflationary trends and the US and EU prematurely adopt fiscal austerity with resulting breaks on the recovery.

     

    In Canada I like the following in the long term but note that it has doubled in price over the past few months (the chart doesn't properly reflect this as the stock split).

     

    tmx.quotemedia.com/quo...

     

    I own some but, needless to say, I claim no special talent in stock picking and only suggest that this is a stock about which further research might be interesting.
    16 Aug 2011, 12:51 PM Reply Like
  • SabriH
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Blue Monday
    6 Aug 2011, 01:25 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Repost... Wish I could pay to put it in Obama's teleprompter.

     

    China demands G 7 meeting ASAP.. Wants new reserve currency now..

     

    I have warned for two years they were ready to pounce. They have spent trillions on hard and soft commodities in an effort for a US collapse. 65% of the world trade is without the dollar now with the BRICs an now Iran ,but, they can force the Saudi to join and the US will be powerless to stop them. That is why Jen has bought so much Euro bond crap. Getting a stronger hand and more diversification. He we go folks. Like is America changes over night.

     

    Own gold , land, and short anyhting you like because if the Chinese force the issue the US is Greece.........

     

    If I scremed about the SDR basket and damm if their not going to demand it now ! Not 30 years from now.... ya know what ... cool
    6 Aug 2011, 01:57 PM Reply Like
  • jthechamp
    , contributor
    Comments (13) | Send Message
     
    Why would china force the issue? where is their edge in having the US go bankrupt?

     

    We may see a knee jerk crash next week, but this market was already headed south. There is ZERO new information starting Monday that we didn't already have this past week. I doubt even those funds that cannot have anything less than AAA rated stuff will sell that much...they'll work a way around it.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:27 PM Reply Like
  • John_DeVita
    , contributor
    Comments (180) | Send Message
     
    There is one easy solution, force all "Ratings Agencies" to sell CDS for AAA ratings. An agency cant rate something AAA unless they are selling the CDS for it.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:47 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    China has already lost money on their US holdings. We are not dependable.
    7 Aug 2011, 03:17 AM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Like they do fair trade....If they don't want our money, don't buy our bonds or send they're products to the US.
    13 Aug 2011, 04:33 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Why,, for thousands of years they were the only superpower. They have dreamed of nothing but their return.........

     

    If you wake up and see the world now trades 60% without the dollar now, if they bite the bullet they can stabilize everything they do currency wise by doing away do with the world number one with one move... The dollar has lost 20% over the past 2 decades and that has put the world industry into a haze.. Everyone must hedge commodities instead of just producing and knowing the goods an services can flow.

     

    Even the US Treasury advisory board just published there opinions on Bloomberg two days ago saying that the lesser of evils isn't a good way to exist.

     

    Well, China waited for their chance and they will pounce. 1.3 Trillion off to auction... Their are ready and the other 2 trillion US denominated holdings is in hard assets. They have planned this and ALL Reps an DEMs have there heads up there asses......... I say cool x 10
    6 Aug 2011, 02:48 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    China wants an immediate G7 meeting since they can't just dump their US holdings without a replacement.

     

    They will need an agreement on the next reserve.

     

    But if they are successful over time, it will mean no more foreign wars and FDR navel gazing for the United States ever again.

     

    Our debt has now become our foreign policy. The only problem is that foreigners who hold our debt now make our foreign policy for us. They will also make our domestic policy for us.
    6 Aug 2011, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • John_DeVita
    , contributor
    Comments (180) | Send Message
     
    Foreign ownership of our debt is 4T out of 14T. China isnt our land lord, nor do they own us. They can cause short term, market issues by dumping our treasuries. The question is who loses more?
    6 Aug 2011, 02:58 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Not if they can get an agreement from the rest of the G7 and then shift the RC away from the dollar quicker than we thought was possible.

     

    The EM economies will grow into such a change over time, but setting the foundation will occur quickly.
    6 Aug 2011, 03:03 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12962) | Send Message
     
    WJ:

     

    I often concur with many of your sentiments --and always enjoy your prose-- but this time you've lost it, I think.

     

    China isn't going to do squat, except shoot their mouths off, just like the old Soviets used to bluster. You really think they want to destroy the purchasing power of their largest and most critical customer? And, destroy their own bond holdings in the process? Get serious. They're just blustering way for the usual propaganda purposes.

     

    And, as for a new "reserve" currency, that one's a laugher, too. I mean does anybody pay attention to where everybody --Chinese included-- flee at the slightest sign of world trouble or doubt? They can't beat a trail fast enough to the dollar and Treasuries.

     

    Monday, we may see the usual frantic panic that always accompanies news that people don't stop to digest well enough, but it will be a short one indeed. In the end, the dollar is still the dollar, and the U.S. is still the U.S., no matter what some self-proclaimed master of the universe over at S&P say.

     

    Where are the Chinese or anybody else going to go? Euro? That's almost too funny for words, as the entire EU gets ready to unravel, possibly turning euros into fancy wallpaper. Yuan? Yeah, sure, the world is going to launch itself into a currency controlled by Chinese dictators, with neither transparency or honesty in almost any dealing. Pound? Your grandpa's dollar. Swiss Francs? Too small in circulation to even be considered. A "basket?" The funniest idea yet, as the EU demonstrates conclusively the risks and likely outcome of "currency by committee." Gold? Despite the worshippers, not a practical currency, and if it were chosen, we can all get ready for the deflationary depression of all time, nullifying anything China might outwardly blather about.

     

    If the dollar in any manner would get impaired as the world denominator of transactional value, we would enter an immediate deflationary death spiral because its acceptance and liquidity would be impossible to replace, regardless of the fantasies of U.S. bashers. It's hard to imagine even the most ardent U.S. critic choosing suicide as an option. Nope, there's not substitute for the dollar and its liquidity, warts and all. And, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see any early sell-off, especially if large, get bought into in a big way later in the day.
    6 Aug 2011, 07:08 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    China has been officially resource colonizing Africa, Indonesia, Australia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran, making partnerships with Russia and off the coast of Brazil. In some cases strip mining, deforesting, slant well drilling wherever it can get at the sea floor, technically in 'international waters' but we all know what's going on. This is their 'basket', their hedge, that they've been forming and accumulating, with or without the G7 ever since they took back receivership of Hong Kong in 2000.

     

    This transition of power and influence from the West to the East has nothing to do with China per se. Like water rising up to its mean sea level, China will just naturally take over whenever the hegemon vacuum opens up. This is more of a statement about us, the United States. WE are giving them the opportunity to do so... with interest. What is China buying? America's sloth. We are now a colony of China by virtue of the debt we owe them. China is buying FDR's promises(*ahem* I mean lies). We now have a Manchurian politic of direct influence. Not a representative republic of 'the people'.

     

    Short term you are right. Long term, you are not right. History illustrates quite well the horizon of our timeline:

     

    Poverty to hard work.

     

    Hard work to subsistence.

     

    Subsistence to affluence.

     

    Affluence to laziness.

     

    Laziness to debt.

     

    Debt to hardship.

     

    Hardship to poverty.

     

    We are sitting at Defcon 5.

     

    6 Aug 2011, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • golfitobob
    , contributor
    Comments (2347) | Send Message
     
    Warts can spread. The world or 60% has gone US dollarless despite your many paragraphs of dribble..... More are joining the ranks of the sane and who would ever believe the banana republics in L A would dare lecture the great US with it's 300,000,000 who think there better then all the rest. Your not !

     

    I went on my dream vacation a little while back and in India.. Better trade your crap at the airport or use a credit card because they won't touch it. Even with gloves.

     

    I went home to NY to visit and the shops in Manhattan wanted my Euros over the dollars. Got a 5% discount over my own countrys' money..........

     

    And with all the absolute insanity in Europe and contagion so toxic the Euro is in the 140s up 18% over your most holy shiite. ( joke get it )

     

    Funny , before this last election it was the border an illegal's.
    Even though Mexico is at war their unemployment rate is 4.5% and viola there going back there now.. I guess they really did come for just the money.....Not the dream crap the Barney Frank promissed everyone. Casa su casa !

     

    Suicide is thinking you can keep printing and think your crapola will always be real. It is not and China can absorb the hit dumping the 1.3 trillion. 50 cents on the dollar.......

     

    Your kind is why America has no future. You want the fantasy to last forever an a day. Well forever is gone and there are a year or two worth of days left tops. When US bonds are 5 ..6.. 7% that will add another trillion in annual debt... The you will need to cut the entire Congress.
    Good one me..

     

    I left already and life is way better in this banana republic.

     

    Look at my new picture. Go get some Obama money....................

     

    You don't have to call sane people US bashers.. Many are great Americans who care...........There scared ..You should be too because your ignorance won't help you ..........

     

    Don't go crying to the Gov. There already doling out food to 45 million and help to 50 million more on all sorts of scams ( oops programs)...

     

    Yep. Sane people like WJ don't need your advise. Go sell it to Big Ben......... And Timmy G before he gets shit canned................... gb
    6 Aug 2011, 08:00 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12962) | Send Message
     
    WJ:

     

    I'm with you about the long-term ramifications of sloth and dependency. I was just reacting the notion that China and some other co-conspirators are going to wake up next week, month or year and jettison the dollar. It's just not happening, unless they have an urge for immediate self destruction (on which we seem to have the monopoly, lately).

     

    Aside:

     

    Even the notion that our indebtedness to China somehow makes the U.S. a vassal is not so simple. Unlike in normal contract law (at least the way it worked pre-Obama), they can't very easily foreclose on anything if the U.S. defaults (which isn't going to occur). That's why the reserve currency always devolves to the country with the "biggest stick" (military), and for the time being that remains the U.S.
    6 Aug 2011, 08:30 PM Reply Like
  • Wyatt Junker
    , contributor
    Comments (4503) | Send Message
     
    Tack, let me ask you. Would you invest in NOC, LMT or RTN?

     

    Long term?
    7 Aug 2011, 02:23 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Ah grasshopper........the most important creditor is the next creditor. And the borrower ultimately has terms dictated to them not the other way around.

     

    In reality they are all important and the bigger the better as they can soak up a lot of paper quickly. China is choking on our paper and has had enough. The losses are not helping their attitude either.
    7 Aug 2011, 03:20 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Tack

     

    We are only 300 million people and our market impact is diminishing. China should be placing a lot of bets elsewhere.
    7 Aug 2011, 03:23 AM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12962) | Send Message
     
    wj:

     

    These are not the type of issues I follow or invest in at any time, so I can't make any recommendation.

     

    I can say that, if someone really believed the dollar was going to be abandoned or become increasingly less accepted as international currency, then, I'd be looking for companies that can produce and supply domestically many of the goods we now import from abroad.

     

    In the context of the ongoing discussion I'd just add that those that think the U.S. is finished, but the rest of the world will go merrily along, have it more or less backwards. The U.S. has vast indigenous resources and currently produces more goods than Germany, Japan and China...combined! If no one wants dollars or to buy any of these goods, it will be much of the rest of the world that will be deprived of products, especially food. The U.S., in turn, would finally be forced to reinvigorate its internal commercial development, especially energy, and such requirement could be very salutary.

     

    The anti-dollar movement is, in essence, an anti-trade, nationalistic movement, whether that is immediately recognized, or not. Insularism and nationalism always hurts the powerful and resource-laden less and hurts the smaller and resource-deprived countries more.
    7 Aug 2011, 08:08 AM Reply Like
  • 867046
    , contributor
    Comments (398) | Send Message
     
    Tack,

     

    For once I agree with a post of yours. To me it's a question of logic. The Chinese can spout off about the USD. Ok, then do something about. Well the consequences of the do something about it part means that your currency has to be traded on the foreign exchange markets. This means it will reach equlibrium with all the other currencies and that the USD will go down.

     

    Here is a further logical disconnect from the fuehrerbunker crowd: You guys claim that the US is headed towards some downward spiral because of our "socialist" democratic government interfers with your freedom to make money and yet you claim that a corrupt, centrally planned, economy (China/ Russia) will be triumphant?
    7 Aug 2011, 05:12 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    TVP,
    Have you ever had the feeling that was the intention of the US? US, Germany, France and India are the biggest innovators in the world. Why do you think the Chinese want more R&D done on their soil?
    China and Russia can holler all they want, in the end i believe S&P will pay for it's jumping the gun. US will come out of it like back in the 50's. Just give it some time.
    7 Aug 2011, 11:02 PM Reply Like
  • nmelendez
    , contributor
    Comments (1622) | Send Message
     
    Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. Look what happened when China wanted to buy up Rio or BHP. Australia and Brazil sent them packing. The real danger is the amount of human exporting china is doing to other countries to maintain their cheap labor(slavery) while trying to get its currency accepted as a world currency. There's the real problem. Brazil already told China it will not permit any more Chinese immigration if their was local labor to perform the work.
    7 Aug 2011, 11:08 PM