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Surface RT is "on track to join Zune and the Kin in the great consumer electronics discount rack...

Surface RT is "on track to join Zune and the Kin in the great consumer electronics discount rack in the sky," writes MKM's Israel Hernandez, as he cuts his FQ3 estimates for Microsoft (MSFT). He adds there's "mounting evidence that Windows 8 is failing to resuscitate flagging PC demand," and believes PC shipments will likely see 10%+ declines at least through 1H13. Also: the head of Samsung's memory chip ops recently declared Windows 8 to be no better than Vista.
Comments (44)
  • Heinz Doofenshmirtz
    , contributor
    Comments (269) | Send Message
     
    "Surface RT is 'on track to join Zune and the Kin in the great consumer electronics discount rack in the sky,'"

     

    I think that's a good thing. It's an unnecessary / unvaluable fork.

     

    And I've thought that Windows 8 = Windows Snowman. The first of any major Microsoft initiatives always seems to need a version 2.0 to be ready for prime time.

     

    Long small MSFT position. Not gonna make or break me.
    11 Mar 2013, 06:43 PM Reply Like
  • wheelz23
    , contributor
    Comments (49) | Send Message
     
    win8 os is much better than vista....microsoft should have set up win8 to have a separate user interface for non-touchscreen computers
    11 Mar 2013, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • Chris Lau
    , contributor
    Comments (1584) | Send Message
     
    I really want to like (MSFT) but it's not working. Win 8 sales are more weak than anyone thought, and is slower than Vista sales 5 months later. Tablets competition and growth in mobile are clearly hurting the desktop paradigm.

     

    Microsoft's move to require one license for Office for each computer, and another one when the system changes...was a bad move..so bad they had to reverse that position.
    11 Mar 2013, 08:47 PM Reply Like
  • Mondego
    , contributor
    Comments (419) | Send Message
     
    I despise Win8. It is Vista, and it's slow. Why would I want a mobile interface on my desk-top? The sales support that claim. The Surface Tablets are cool though, don't get me wrong but it's not necessary to revamp an entire desktop OS so it's congruent with mobile software.
    12 Mar 2013, 09:30 AM Reply Like
  • silverscreen
    , contributor
    Comments (180) | Send Message
     
    Win 8 is anything but slow. In terms of performance it is the fastest desktop OS today. Yes, faster than Mac OS. So many ignorant haters in this thread.
    12 Mar 2013, 09:34 AM Reply Like
  • Seppo Sahrakorpi
    , contributor
    Comments (1871) | Send Message
     
    @silver Agreed, I have W8 Lenovo laptop w/ 500GB hard drive supported by 24GB SSD drive via ExpressCache SW, and this machine is amazingly fast. In particular for the first time I very rarely if ever notice any lag or hickups due to disk I/O.

     

    ExpressCache is a third party SW, licensed to OEMs. I would recommend people making sure getting it when buying W8 machines.
    12 Mar 2013, 09:41 AM Reply Like
  • jrwaller
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    If you use RetroUI on the desktop, it makes Windows 8 much more pleasant.
    12 Mar 2013, 09:54 AM Reply Like
  • Mondego
    , contributor
    Comments (419) | Send Message
     
    It certainly wasn't faster in my new laptop. Sure it booted fast...that's it. Was always lagging and freezing. If I'm going to blame the hardware manufacturer (like you will probably suggest is to blame) maybe MSFT should stop forcing, sorry, PROMOTING, their new OS on OEMs until all the compatibility issues are fixed/optimized. No, not ignorant. I reformatted and installed Windows 7. It runs like a dream now. Don't have to wait 45 seconds to open the control panel anymore!

     

    P.S. Windows guy since '95
    12 Mar 2013, 10:03 AM Reply Like
  • Mondego
    , contributor
    Comments (419) | Send Message
     
    I did. Got the start menu button and everything. It was still slow. I found myself constantly using the task manager to close windows because they wouldn't respond to my commands immediately. Also, to the guy above with an SSD: I certainly hope your system runs fast with a cached SSD. I guess I just had a bad experience, but I gave it a week and a half's chance. Went to a LAN with it and my buddies didn't like it either. I'll wait. I will switch to it in the future. Just not now.
    12 Mar 2013, 10:22 AM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    Why is it a mobile interface? There's no logic to your statement. The only reason you view moving a piece of plastic along a surface and having it translate to moving an icon on a monitor is you used that method first. Had you started out the other way around with touch first, you'd be wondering why the heck anyone would think you'd want to move a piece of plastic along a surface to move an icon on a display, when just pointing to the display was far more intuitive.
    12 Mar 2013, 04:43 PM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    silverscreen,

     

    You left out having to point directly at objects of interest. That's really unnatural for most humans.
    12 Mar 2013, 04:44 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    Cin:

     

    Everything has its place. For tablets and phones, it's great. If you believe touch is universally wonderful, here's an experiment for you:

     

    Go get a desktop set-up with one of those nice big-screen monitors (24-32") and place it at the normal distance away from you for that size. Then, disconnect your mouse, activate touch control and spend the day reaching arm's length across your desktop moving the cursor around.

     

    Then, tell me how wonderful touchscreens are.

     

    (Maybe, you can even try it for a month or two before you go to your local orthopedist for a repetitive-stress injury.)
    12 Mar 2013, 04:48 PM Reply Like
  • TakeFive
    , contributor
    Comments (5205) | Send Message
     
    Tack.... are you promoting Medicare scams?

     

    My monitor is at the lower end of your dimensions but that's so I can press my forehead against it, if I actually need to read something.
    12 Mar 2013, 05:59 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    TF:

     

    If Samsung's new eyeball reader (S4) works, pretty soon even touch will be passé.
    12 Mar 2013, 06:10 PM Reply Like
  • TakeFive
    , contributor
    Comments (5205) | Send Message
     
    Haha... I saw that. Wonder how my 'cross-eyes' would handle that?
    12 Mar 2013, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    So there's no option to use a mouse?

     

    The anti-Intel ARM fanboys keep telling me desktops are dead so they'll not miss it.
    12 Mar 2013, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    The days of Microsoft coasting on the trade winds of cosmetically-repackaged Windows releases is over, and, now, their very mediocre, bereft-of-innovation organization will be laid bare to see. Like HP or Dell, it's not clear in what business the future Microsoft can be a success.
    11 Mar 2013, 06:52 PM Reply Like
  • Deja Vu
    , contributor
    Comments (1154) | Send Message
     
    Microsoft is a Titanic happening in slow motion. Windows 8 was Titanic striking the iceberg. It's absolutely worst OS I have ever seen. I've used every OS from the early versions of Unix (oh that "c" and "korn" shell), every flavor of windows to iOS and Android.

     

    Even the oldest command line OS interfaces are a million times better than Windows 8. One of things most demanded of me recently by family and friends is to tweak Windows 8, install Start8, disable the charms bar, etc...i.e. make Win8 more like Win 7.

     

    After the disaster that was the "Office Ribbon Toolbar" I thought Microsoft could not sink any lower. Well, they proved me wrong. Coming to the point of this website, I would love to short Muccosoft, but since they have cash coming in from forcible OS sales via OEM manufacturers and the Office monopoly, Microsoft will die a slow lingering death. Shorting is out due to carry costs and putting is out due to the fact that one cannot buy a 10 year put.
    11 Mar 2013, 07:03 PM Reply Like
  • Sal Marvasti
    , contributor
    Comments (1364) | Send Message
     
    Its the fastest Windows OS there ever was Window-C and Window-Q keys solved my issue which was the Start-Search bar which was now not visible.
    Its amazing, the speed alone made me upgrade every single Laptop in our household. For desktops it is not a must have, but its good.
    11 Mar 2013, 07:15 PM Reply Like
  • Deja Vu
    , contributor
    Comments (1154) | Send Message
     
    C'mon, Sal, early in my career, I used to take Microsoft certification exams and used to be what is called a MCSD (Microsoft Certified Solution Developer) which requires you pass four Microsoft certifications in 4 different Microsoft products. I assure you it's not about the learning curve. Even if you learn to drive a horse and buggy, it's still a horse and buggy. At some point, you have to admit the emperor has no clothes.

     

    As for the speed difference, my eyes and reflexes can't distinguish any speed difference. Perhaps it exists in some rarified PCMag or C-Net speed test.
    11 Mar 2013, 10:35 PM Reply Like
  • russellm454
    , contributor
    Comments (128) | Send Message
     
    Come on now Windows 8 may not be Windows 7 in popularity but it is actually a better, faster and more secure OS. It's interface is nit popular simply because it involves a learning curve, most change does. Win8 is in no shape or form another Vista.

     

    As for the RT I'd much rather have it over a Nook or iPad BUT it is not the Surface Pro which is AWESOME.
    11 Mar 2013, 07:25 PM Reply Like
  • SA Editor Eric Jhonsa
    , contributor
    Comments (753) | Send Message
     
    I kind of like it myself (have a non-touchscreen ultrabook running Win. 8). Takes some getting used to and there are a couple of annoying ticks (such as the extra steps needed to shut down/restart), but it's more resource-efficient than Win. 7, the gestures and keyboard shortcuts are useful, and some of the Metro apps are decent.

     

    But at the same time, I realize I'm an early adopter. Got my first smartphone all the way back in '02. For the average consumer, the new UI can be a jarring change, especially if you don't have a touchscreen. It's possible a lot of consumers will come around, but I doubt it'll happen overnight.
    11 Mar 2013, 10:33 PM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    I've read that one of the problems is the lack of touch enabled devices in the market at present. Definitely a different experience with a touchscreen. I actually thought I'd prefer a mouse, but I quickly found that using the touchscreen was pretty slick.
    12 Mar 2013, 01:59 AM Reply Like
  • Yokyok
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    for more on this story.. The Emperor's New Clothes
    http://bit.ly/Y6HAKz
    11 Mar 2013, 07:33 PM Reply Like
  • TakeFive
    , contributor
    Comments (5205) | Send Message
     
    Cool Beans
    11 Mar 2013, 08:16 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2878) | Send Message
     
    Microsoft's core cash cows are Windows and Office, all others are either insignificant or outright losers.

     

    Office was a great product, but it has stopped innovating a long time ago. Office 2013 is not any better than Office 97, but Microsoft just keeps doing the feature creep and tries to bilk its customers $300 per license each year.

     

    As a result, Microsoft's numbers still look cute, at cost of its once imprenable business moat. Microsoft has gotten away over the years because of lack of credible competition, but powerful barbarians are already on the horizon and will assault the castle gate very soon.
    11 Mar 2013, 08:45 PM Reply Like
  • silverscreen
    , contributor
    Comments (180) | Send Message
     
    Define 'insignificant'. Servers & Tools makes almost as much as Windows the desktop OS.
    11 Mar 2013, 09:54 PM Reply Like
  • Heinz Doofenshmirtz
    , contributor
    Comments (269) | Send Message
     
    I'm switching from Google Docs spreadsheet to a SkyDrive Excel spreadsheet tonight because the Google Docs window keeps giving me a "Server error occurred. Please press "Reload" in your browser."

     

    It's a simple family budget spreadsheet. Nothing more than a few sum formulas. But I keep getting kicked out of it.
    11 Mar 2013, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • timddeb
    , contributor
    Comments (310) | Send Message
     
    Wait is a new learning experience. SO people will look at alternatives. Office has equally good rivals, some of them at zero cost. They will find migration easy, and more user freindly. The moat has a big leak.
    11 Mar 2013, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • The Wall Streeter
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    I upgraded to Win 8 the very same day it came out. Hated it for 2 days. Now months later and I think its the best windows OS ever. Took a small position in the stock. Will average down and collect that dividend while I wait.
    11 Mar 2013, 10:03 PM Reply Like
  • Jonc
    , contributor
    Comments (34) | Send Message
     
    Windows 8 works... If you are all thumbs maybe you may have a problem.... I have been playing this game since green screens and code were state of the art...

     

    Vista was clumsy... If you cannot figure out windows 8 you are clumsy... W8 is pretty intuitive... My wife also uses it with no problems both of us are over 70 ... The learning curve was not that steep... We had it up and running in a few hours...

     

    What is the beef?
    11 Mar 2013, 10:39 PM Reply Like
  • widesmile
    , contributor
    Comments (5) | Send Message
     
    Who would possibly benefit from MSFT misguided product flops? Nokia? Where is the market share going to go from these once great companies?
    12 Mar 2013, 01:12 AM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    Tried out Windows 8 for the first time at Costco last weekend. It's clear to me those negative on it either hate MSFT, or they are creatures of habit and have trouble absorbing new technology. Those in the latter category I understand, as I think >50% of the population falls into the latter category. Give them time and they'll figure it out and will see it as good as or better than what came before.
    12 Mar 2013, 01:52 AM Reply Like
  • btbriant
    , contributor
    Comments (222) | Send Message
     
    Cincinnatus: "It's clear to me those negative on it either hate MSFT, or they are creatures of habit and have trouble absorbing new technology."

     

    I am that "creature of habit" and despite (because of?) more than 30 years in tech I still have problems accepting good new technology. I rarely have problems accepting bad technology because I usually don't touch it in the first place. I've installed used every MS desktop OS since 3.1 except ME, Vista and W2k12 Server (W2k8 is still good enough for my server needs).

     

    I didn't like W8 when it came out. I didn't like the idea of W8, however I develop WP apps in my spare time and W8 is required for WP8 development (although WP7 apps still work fine on WP8) plus MS were giving away Media Center free till end of January on W8 so I installed a couple of machines with it.

     

    And you know what? It is BETTER than W7! First thing I did was download and install a Start Menu replacement and now I can do everything I could on W7, and more, only quicker.

     

    What's more the Metro side of things does add value. I spend about 10% of my time there and that's because it has stuff I want to use.

     

    I don't currently have any touch screens but I can see that it will be very good on those devices. I will be getting a tablet with full W8 on it later in the year but it will not be a surface. Acer and Acer look as if they make equally good / better devices cheaper and I'm sure there are other manufacturers out there also doing a better job at making hardware than MS do currently.
    12 Mar 2013, 04:55 AM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    Yes, touch enabled is key. The real problem seems to be not Windows 8 itself, but that there are still a lot of products out there that aren't touch enabled. I'd say more than half of the laptops at Costco weren't touch enabled.
    12 Mar 2013, 04:59 PM Reply Like
  • freed0m
    , contributor
    Comments (530) | Send Message
     
    It is not about how bad Windows 8 is. It is just that Windows 8 comes out too early.

     

    Corporations have not left Windows XP completely and are still in the early stage of transition to Windows 7.

     

    What is everyone expecting?
    12 Mar 2013, 02:07 AM Reply Like
  • russellm454
    , contributor
    Comments (128) | Send Message
     
    The end of support is coming for XP. If people want to continue getting security fixes and support they will have to upgrade to Win7 or Win8 if they stay on a Windows OS. Either way MSFT makes a sale, winning. It's not necessarily the major release cycle that determines the upgrade path but rather the end of support.
    12 Mar 2013, 10:50 AM Reply Like
  • FransRe
    , contributor
    Comments (12) | Send Message
     
    The best Microsoft can do is have an update version of Windows8 available which allows a user to select which interface it wants / needs on their machine.
    This is a very simple amendment to the Windows OS.
    Keeping upwards compatibility of OS's is essential for the future success of Microsoft.

     

    Modernization of the interface, as well as compatibility with the Mobile devices (Windows8 Phone), is a short / long term goal. Microsoft wanted to leapfrog their ancient User- Interface (UI) with the new / present Windows8 UI, to combat in a highly sensible market.

     

    Apple has made numerous mistakes with their upgrade policies and just tell their customers to buy a new computer. Nobody publicly seems to know it or wants to talk about. The customer ultimate paid for this!!
    12 Mar 2013, 05:05 AM Reply Like
  • SciKautic
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Windows RT has an audience; and that audience is not looking for an overpowered battery hungry device. My RT compliments my Windows 8 desktop beautifully. My son uses it for school and it solves 90% of what he needs, the rest can be done on his desktop at home. Let us have alternatives please and quit bashing something you've not used for than 5 minutes in Staples. Those who depend on their RT devices have really grown to rely on them. I don't need another full grown Windows 8 device, I need this middle ground.
    12 Mar 2013, 06:22 AM Reply Like
  • hakapuu
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    @tack: if windows 8 is not innovation then you must be blind!
    12 Mar 2013, 06:25 AM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (12764) | Send Message
     
    hak:

     

    Then, hand me a white cane.

     

    Win8 sales are lagging. It's no surprise to me, at least.

     

    Win8 was designed as Microsoft's desperate attempt to penetrate the tablet/phone market, and, as such, it was designed entirely around a touchscreen existence, with large desktop icons. It's had only marginal success, even in its target market.

     

    The problem is that for the vast corporate market, where Microsoft really makes its money on Windows, the kiddie-style, over-sized, icon-based, touchscreen-style interface was/is useless for desktop systems designed for work, not interactive apps and widgets that comprise the tablet/phone world. So, Microsoft has tried to make Win8 adapted for the non-touchscreen environment by means of some glued-on modifications to Win8, which look like the afterthought they are.

     

    Regarding Surface RT, it is slow and has limited apps and hasn't done well. Microsoft rushed out a full Win8-version Surface to try to solve the problem, but, as is typical for Microsoft, Win8 is a behemoth, inefficient operating system, so to attain sufficient performance they had to go to a Celeron processor, which is a power hog and makes battery life miserable.

     

    Trying to make Win8 be the nimble, fast, efficient operating system that mobile appliances require, plus making it serve the desktop needs of the corporate world, has resulted in a "horse designed by a committee," a system that doesn't serve any of the markets ideally. That it's not a rage should hardly come as a surprise.

     

    Microsoft has lacked leadership and innovation for years, choosing, instead, to milk various marginal Windows upgrades, which were mostly re-warmed user-interface changes. Now, their milk cow, the PC, is dying, and they find that they're tying to migrate to mobile, belatedly, while still trying to sell the less-than-ideal design to the corporate world.

     

    P.S. Apple and Microsoft better both take heed to what Google is doing with Chrome. Their approach can revolutionize the integration of computing and communications, using an operating system that's much faster, more efficient and more secure than anything offered presently. And, soon, Google will merge Chrome with Android, bringing all the Android apps to Chrome.

     

    And, they're offering devices which obliterate the cost structure of both Apple and Microsoft. It should be no surprise that Google's (Samsung) Chromebook is the #1 selling notebook on Amazon.
    12 Mar 2013, 06:54 AM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3355) | Send Message
     
    I think Microsoft made two bets:

     

    1) Intel will deliver on bringing the power of true personal computing devices to smartphones and tablets.
    2) Smartphones through laptop/desktop are a continuum and not disjoint environments requiring different user interfaces, and that users will appreciate the value of a seamless continuum.

     

    There are already Android laptops, but I think Windows is in a far better position to move down, than Android is to move up.
    12 Mar 2013, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • Derek A. Barrett
    , contributor
    Comments (3534) | Send Message
     
    Expecting Windows 8 to "resuscitate PC demand" was always a Red Herring argument in the first place. The point of Windows 8 is touchscreens and unifying the interface across the entire ecosystem.

     

    RT was just a hedge in case ARM based processors became a standard or were demanded in high volume. With the arrival of Intel tablets there is really no need for it.

     

    Analysts are looking at things through a 2007 lens and totally missing the point of Windows 8.

     

    Microsoft does however need to make sure its PC customers with mouse and keyboard, and lacking a touchscreen, are kept happy however.
    12 Mar 2013, 06:24 PM Reply Like
  • silverscreen
    , contributor
    Comments (180) | Send Message
     
    I agree with you. One thing that I'd like to expand on is the RT hedge. Most people think what's the point of RT. However, it goes much deeper than just tablets.

     

    The next trend is wearable computers. I don't think Intel will be able to power watches, glasses, wrist-bands, appliances, etc. any time soon. Having RT would enable Microsoft have a presence in that space. Furthermore, one day MS may be able to replace Window Phone OS with RT, and then they will achieve the vision of write-once, run-everywhere vision.
    12 Mar 2013, 06:55 PM Reply Like
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