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Cyprus's parliament is due to convene this afternoon to debate an astonishing eurozone demand...

Cyprus's parliament is due to convene this afternoon to debate an astonishing eurozone demand that it tax all bank deposits at up to 10% in return for a €10B bailout. While approval is not guaranteed, Cypriots rushed to take as much money as allowed out of ATMs. And although EU Commissioner Olli Rehn ruled out a deposit raid in other eurozone countries, menacingly for savers, eurogroup chief Jeroen Dijsselbloem would not. "We are in a new world," says an economist. Update: The parliamentary debate has been postponed until tomorrow.
Comments (127)
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3184) | Send Message
     
    So lets figure this one out....... Shareholders and Bondholders are protected....... but the savers will lose 10% of their wealth???

     

    Reid and Pelosi have aids flying to Cyprus overnight to learn how it was done!!!

     

    I hope the people of Cyprus rise up. Heck even the Communist party in Cyprus refused to allow this when they were in power (just a few months ago)!! Even the COMMUNISTS wouldn't go along!!!!

     

    Truly remarkable and it shows the great contempt that bureaucrats have for anyone that has worked hard, sacrificed, made their own way, etc, etc. Its not their money - its really the bureaucrat's money to do with as they see fit!!!!

     

    This isn't even a tax. Two people earning the same amount - one saves and the other spends everything.... guess who pays!!! Theft plain and simple.

     

    Bet the citizens of Cyprus wish they had a second admendment on Monday!!!!
    17 Mar 2013, 04:08 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Cyprus banks will be close for a few days.
    17 Mar 2013, 07:10 AM Reply Like
  • Todd Johnson
    , contributor
    Comments (6954) | Send Message
     
    03.17.13 This is the only outcome for U.S. citizens. Either bank tax or currency revaluation. http://bit.ly/YktIwj It's only fair that we pay back our debts in nominal terms. TJ
    17 Mar 2013, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • IncomeYield
    , contributor
    Comments (2427) | Send Message
     
    Remember, in socialist countries, it is not their money anyway.
    17 Mar 2013, 03:46 PM Reply Like
  • JeffreyLangBoyd
    , contributor
    Comments (663) | Send Message
     
    No, your understanding is incorrect.

     

    Equity holders get wiped out, subordinated creditors get wiped out. Some people are irritated that the senior bond holders aren't getting wiped out but I don't know enough to say that they weren't secured so maybe it was the right thing to do.

     

    The really "cute" part is that Cyprus might reimburse Cypriot depositors just as the British are reimbursing their soldiers for losses. In the end, the practical effect might just be that the Russian oligarchs are the only ones who take a big hit. This might just be a beautiful fact pattern.
    17 Mar 2013, 06:21 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2899) | Send Message
     
    Heh, that's life under the Fourth Reich.

     

    What did you expect?
    17 Mar 2013, 06:04 AM Reply Like
  • davidingeorgia
    , contributor
    Comments (2713) | Send Message
     
    Exactly this sort of thing...and worse. Coming soon to a country in which you live.
    17 Mar 2013, 08:05 AM Reply Like
  • onsen
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    I was shocked! Last month when I was in Seattle talking to an HS_C executive about banking. I told her that i would not trust her bank and I have withdrawn almost everything, except a million dollars to qualify for its premier member, in plain cash. She couldn't believe it. She asked me why. I told her that I cannot trust your bank for the money even though I took the risk of losing it through theft or inflation and the forgone interest income.

     

    After reading this last night I felt I made a right decision. From then on, it is either the real gold bar or plain cash.
    17 Mar 2013, 06:34 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    onsen,
    And what are you going to do when authorities change the outlook of cash ?
    In Belgium we have some experience with these things: in October 1944 Finance Minister Camillo Gutt expropriated all the Belgian money by declaring it invalid and introducing newly printed paper notes. He wanted to punish the smugglers who had enriched themselves during WWII.
    But of course in the same time he punished honest savers as well.
    These are the kind of unilateral measures that do more harm than good.
    Since then we Belgians have a second nature of mistrusting the authorities and investing our savings in other assets than cash.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:02 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Filipo

     

    What options do you consider besides cash? That info might be useful to others including me!!
    17 Mar 2013, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • WMARKW
    , contributor
    Comments (10700) | Send Message
     
    Unsure - not answering for filipo - but using this as another "what-if" for myself, I would say:

     

    Precious Metals
    Diamonds - I am beginning to think these may have more and more appeal
    Real Estate - especially agricultural with water, and potentially located in defensible areas (canyons, etc)
    Pre-paid Credit Cards (fees??)
    Alternative Currencies (Euro, RMB, Loonie)

     

    Hard Assets that have value and can be sold/bartered such as:
    Alcohol
    Cigarettes
    Ammunition
    Guns

     

    It's kinda hard to safely store lots of these things - but then if you can't trust the banks or a safe deposit, then.... Hey, maybe there's a business model for a non-banking safe-deposit provider.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:25 PM Reply Like
  • pdtor
    , contributor
    Comments (1510) | Send Message
     
    Onsen, put your trust in gold, and hot lead.
    17 Mar 2013, 05:20 PM Reply Like
  • pdtor
    , contributor
    Comments (1510) | Send Message
     
    WMARKW, well said, lets hope they do not beat gold down on Monday. Heck, they can short 10,000 contracts, whatever it takes
    17 Mar 2013, 05:23 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    MARK

     

    I already have a few of those items already! Real Estate would be the next one but it's pricey where i live..Ammo is in a real short supply here, real short!

     

    Thank goodness i accumulated enough a while ago..
    17 Mar 2013, 05:29 PM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    All the depositors that lost money they will get bonds.
    These bonds are related to the gas that it has been discovered.
    17 Mar 2013, 07:13 AM Reply Like
  • davidingeorgia
    , contributor
    Comments (2713) | Send Message
     
    Useful gas or the kind emitted by politicians and bureaucrats? :-)
    17 Mar 2013, 08:06 AM Reply Like
  • Vuke
    , contributor
    Comments (1666) | Send Message
     
    Can't happen here. Very few have cash and those that do run the government. However, "they" will find another way.............
    17 Mar 2013, 08:38 AM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    Here (in the U.S.) it will most likely be a tax on accumulated 401k balances.
    17 Mar 2013, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • losbronces
    , contributor
    Comments (792) | Send Message
     
    Sure it can. Lets put it to a vote. As you said, the majority don't have savings, so how do think a vote would go?
    17 Mar 2013, 11:45 AM Reply Like
  • losbronces
    , contributor
    Comments (792) | Send Message
     
    Or the government can just take them over and give a guaranteed pension in exchange. There has already been talk about the government managing these type of accounts, so thats not a huge leap.
    17 Mar 2013, 11:48 AM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    My State is already trying to add a new tax onto my satellite bill...They will try anything you can think of...

     

    Nothing is off the table, yet most people just don't see this at all which amazes me!!
    17 Mar 2013, 11:53 AM Reply Like
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3184) | Send Message
     
    Can't happen here
    ----------------------...

     

    Lets go back 20 or 30 years and list some of the things that "can't happen here"

     

    1. Government building databases to track all your personal spending? Well that just got approval this week!

     

    2. Government building bases to support domestic drone flights to allow small unmanned planes to spy on its own citizens? Well thats underway also!

     

    3. 50 some MILLION people relying on food stamps??? Well thats reality.

     

    4. Government mandated black boxes in your cars that can track your every movement (but trust us we only use it when there is a crash!). Well 92% of cars now have them.

     

    5. Government placing wire taps on your phone without needing a warrant? Thats been the case for a decade.

     

    6. Goverment can arrest and hold you without charge and representation indefinately? Yep.

     

    7. Government employees can molest you, and order you around like sheep if you want to board a commercial plane? Afraid so.

     

    I'll stop there because I don't want to ruin my Sunday - but I think you get the picture.
    17 Mar 2013, 01:34 PM Reply Like
  • Agbug
    , contributor
    Comments (1162) | Send Message
     
    Only one like, David, and it was mine. Tell Americans to do just about anything in the name of safety - consider it done! I am in my 50's and would not be surprised to see a cashless society in my lifetime under the guise of "it's safer this way".
    17 Mar 2013, 02:00 PM Reply Like
  • RM13
    , contributor
    Comments (921) | Send Message
     
    Bingo... Since large majority doesn't have more than 5K in their account, why not shave 5% off 5-50K, 10% above, and there you go..

     

    This is a very interesting move on tiny part of eurozone. The consequences of that move will have far reaches in Europe, I'm not sure eurocrats realize that yet. If I was a depositor in southern Europe, I'd make sure to move money central or north, in a hurry.

     

    This assures that more bank bailouts for southern Europe are needed. Dumb.
    17 Mar 2013, 02:06 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    DAVID

     

    You ruined mine!!...
    17 Mar 2013, 05:30 PM Reply Like
  • june1234
    , contributor
    Comments (3205) | Send Message
     
    Less than a million total population on Cyprus. They say they are raising $10B through that 10% depositor tax , averages out to about $10K per depositor if my math is correct ;must be some well off people on that island. Very large non resident Russian population there they say. They can take their cash somewhere else.
    17 Mar 2013, 09:26 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    june,
    there's lots of Brits as well.
    I take it Cameron will have to say some soothing words to his compatriots. I don't know how that's going to be worked out. Cameron won't be amused and neither will Putin be.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:09 PM Reply Like
  • divinecomedy
    , contributor
    Comments (466) | Send Message
     
    I predict very strong retail numbers coming out of Cyprus ... from people buying mattresses. Short Euro, go long Mattress/Small Deposit Box makers.

     

    Trade of the year.
    17 Mar 2013, 09:44 AM Reply Like
  • RM13
    , contributor
    Comments (921) | Send Message
     
    This means long precious metals. I think gold/silver markets have gotten a justification for their worth, of all places from Cyprus:).
    17 Mar 2013, 02:08 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    If the Metals don't rise this week then we know what is going on behind the curtain, and that will come to a drastic end one day!!
    17 Mar 2013, 02:37 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    divine, yeah, make it king size..
    17 Mar 2013, 04:11 PM Reply Like
  • Morrison Marketing
    , contributor
    Comments (107) | Send Message
     
    Most hilarious comment so far today.
    24 Mar 2013, 10:09 PM Reply Like
  • permanent
    , contributor
    Comments (213) | Send Message
     
    What will happen to markets on Monday?
    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    Who has seen this BCG study?
    http://on.bcg.com/ZKijWL

     

    Not new but a must read.

     

    Have a great Sunday.
    17 Mar 2013, 09:52 AM Reply Like
  • User 353732
    , contributor
    Comments (5012) | Send Message
     
    This is what happens when the kleptocratic elites occupy a nation.
    Coercion and theft are merely manifestation of the occupation.
    17 Mar 2013, 09:53 AM Reply Like
  • Ghosts of Kariela
    , contributor
    Comments (152) | Send Message
     
    At this point leaving the Euro seems like a better choice
    17 Mar 2013, 10:25 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Ghosts,
    It has been the better choice since 2001, at least for the Club Med.
    On the other hand, before 2001, the Cypriots faced overnight devaluations every now and then. The difference is that they could blame these devaluations to their own (politicians) while now they blame Merkel and Dijsselbloem.
    Before, they loved the Germans because they spent vacation in Cyprus and brought in wealth. They hated their politicians, but since these were family related, they forgot after a year.
    Now they hate the Germans and they won't forget this robbery, not after a lifetime.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:21 PM Reply Like
  • Morrison Marketing
    , contributor
    Comments (107) | Send Message
     
    Filipo, I may have misunderstood you, but I think your inferring that Cyprus joined the EU in 2001. I believe it is 2008, if my memories from this morning data crunching serves me right.

     

    And BTW- Are you Greek? Your profile pic is awesome.
    24 Mar 2013, 10:09 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Morrison,
    You are right, that was a typo.
    Cyprus joined the EMU January 1st 2008.
    That was a major mistake. The same mistake has been made by all the other Club Med countries whenever they entered the eurozone.
    No, I'm not Greek but I found this Greek centaur on the internet. He stands as a model for all the Club Med states who face ever growing current account deficits thanks to the euro-system. "Where have my savings gone ?" he asks himself. In the case of Cyprus one might ask that question to the irresponsable banks who have been mismanaging to the extreme and probably also to the politicians who put pressure on these banks to do so.
    Since I already knew in 2006 there would be trouble ahead for the EZ, I adopted this image as my profile pic.
    Thanks for appreciating.
    27 Mar 2013, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Coming to a shore near us? The unraveling is picking up steam folks!!
    17 Mar 2013, 10:43 AM Reply Like
  • minecanary
    , contributor
    Comments (641) | Send Message
     
    The real kicker is they had the nads to grab some of the Russian mafia's money (ex-KGB). Watch how fast those funds are restored when a few technocrats start going missing.
    17 Mar 2013, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • Morrison Marketing
    , contributor
    Comments (107) | Send Message
     
    I was thinking the same thing, It seems Russia may prove a good model for getting compliance with stubborn greedy politicians. Maybe if they feared death like the starving Russian Serf in a dilapidated soviet era house they would stop thinking of their next vacation and how to make sure their children do not have to be stolen from like they are from us.
    24 Mar 2013, 10:09 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    borrowed this post from someone..If this doesn't scare you nothing will...

     

    "With next european problem with the Cyprus bail out blowing up in mighty bring many traders feet back onto the ground. The 10bn-euro ($13bn; £9bn) deal agreed by the EU will be tough for Cypriots to take. Already today people Que. to withdraw money from their accounts.
    People in Cyprus with less than 100,000 euros in their accounts will have to pay a one-time tax of 6.75%, Those with greater sums will pay 9.9% in tax. Depositors will be compensated with the equivalent amount in shares in their banks. It is suggested that depositors will be able to access all of their money except the amount set by the levy. This is reality of today and the reason Gold is going to be King. "
    17 Mar 2013, 11:22 AM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    You need to know the whole bailout negotions process in order to comment these news. First of all, Cyprus was among the most touched counties, by the Greek and the Turkish financial crisis, since they are the most direct Cyprus' trading partners. Secondly, there is the discovered offshore gas consession, that was supposed to be used as a guarantee. However, it's still unknown how it is going to work out because of the territorial conflict with Turkey and Erdogan's readiness to 'conquer' these gas fields by military means. This gas is supposed to start being exploited by 2014 in cooperation with Israel.

     

    However the main reason why EU doesn't want to help Cyprus is because of decades of its shady offshore banking system. The main reaon why Cyprus was among the first countries to join EU was because EU wanted to influence and eventually terminate its opaque banking industry. Cyprus is the country where the whole European mafia, dirty Eastern European politicians and other illegally working businessmen hide and launder their cash.

     

    Recently, Cypriot Governement received two propositions. EU offered Cyprus their help in exchange of austerity measures AND of a complete uncover of their banking accounts. Meanwhile Putin personally offered to lend Cyprus the money it needed in order to protect his close friends and his political system based exclusively on corruption. After that announcement, EU offered Cyprus not to uncover their banking secret, but rather to set a special tax on their deposit accounts.

     

    Both options, rather it's going to be a special tax or the end of the banking secret will harm Cypriot banking industry. The government is studying its possibilities, but I think that it is very unlikely that they will set a special tax on their own citizens. Even a compensated special tax, with stocks and bonds is highly unlawful and the ruling party would never be elected again.

     

    The main issue is that it's simply a question of political games rather than a difficulty in the EU. It's a small offshore country going against EU. Nevertheless, it will certainly sign the end of the stock rally.
    17 Mar 2013, 01:02 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    It's very intersting to see that the Europeans consider that their economical situation is better than the American economical situation, the Americans think the exact opposite. But no one sees the gorilla in the room - the huge bubble coming from China, that will bring an unprecedented world financial crisis in the upcoming years.
    17 Mar 2013, 01:10 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    DAVID

     

    Thanks for the explanation however i can never accept ANY country stealing money from it's citizens!!
    17 Mar 2013, 01:21 PM Reply Like
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3184) | Send Message
     
    Davidoff - one must then ask where have the EU bureaucrats been in terms of cleaning up the banking system?

     

    Using the Russians as the boogeyman is just an attempt to divert attention to the outright theft that is occuring. And lets be clear its targetted theft. You see those that live "responsibly" , work hard, save, sacrifice, are generally the people that take care of themselves and don't want nor need the government to take care of them. They are the enemy of the bureaucrat because they are the people that will stand up and say that government should have limits. This is a direct strike at anyone that dares to work harder than their neighbor - save instead of spend - sacrifice for a better tomorrow - basically display any behavior that doesn't increase the reach and power of the bureaucrat!
    17 Mar 2013, 01:42 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Davidoff,
    "Nevertheless, it will certainly sign the end of the stock rally. "
    You might be right, but it certainly wouldn't be logical.
    They didn't tax stock portfolios, did they ?
    So, in my view this whole operation proves that people are safer with stock portfolios than with savings accounts.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:27 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    david,
    How old are you ?
    Didn't you experience the endless devaluations of the Cypriot currency in the pre-euro periode ?
    Devaluations equally target "those that live "responsibly" , work hard, save, sacrifice, generally the people that take care of themselves and don't want nor need the government to take care of them. "
    What happened now, in fact, isn't anything different from what you experienced in the pre-euro period, is it ?
    17 Mar 2013, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    Filipo,

     

    Day traders don't need any particular reason to start shorting stocks, especially after a rally. You just need a big title on front pages concerning some EU "disaster" and it's all good to start making some easy cash.
    17 Mar 2013, 05:22 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    Unsure Now,

     

    First of all, that measure hasn't been voted yet, so no one "stole" anything from anyone. Secondly, I'm sorry, but how does it concern you? Unless you are a Cyprian citizen you can express your personal opinion, but no one needs your agreement to adopt these measures, so the fact that "you can never accept that" is a lonely and pointless whip in the middle of nowhere. Cyprus is a sovereign democratic state, Cypriots elected their new government just recently so the new government has the right to set special taxes to make the economy go better. Cypriots will be able to demonstrate their disagreement and if they are going to be convincing enough, they might make fall the new government and it won't be elected for a while (but I doubt that it will go that far), or they will make the government abandon these measures, which is much more likely.
    17 Mar 2013, 05:37 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    DAVID

     

    It concerns me because if it is approved there then do you trust it can't happen anywhere else? Are you serious..They already STOLE up to 10% of the deposits..

     

    Do you really need a lesson on this? How it can escalate to other Countries?

     

    Maybe you think this is acceptable, but i don't . This is a serious issue. So don't question my concern..If you aren't then that's your problem...That money STOLEN was insured but i guess that doesn't matter to you...WOW!!

     

    http://bit.ly/111yQrQ.../

     

    Maybe this will educate you??
    17 Mar 2013, 05:46 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    DAVID

     

    Let me add gold already popped over $16 bucks. Think it is related to Cyprus??

     

    Should i continue why it involves the whole world?

     

    Seriously, you need to do some homework on what is going on and how it effects all investors..
    17 Mar 2013, 06:22 PM Reply Like
  • Davidoff
    , contributor
    Comments (325) | Send Message
     
    Unsure Now,

     

    I don't really understand your stance, young man. Unlike you I'm not an anarchist and I'm not a social worker. I'm pragmatic, I don't let myself become emotional for no reason and I chose carefully the place to live and work. So no, I don't feel concerned by other people's funds, mainly because that measure was forecastable for months and only lower classes and gangsters didn't move their funds at time. I also have enough trust in the government of my country of residence and of course I picked it for its advantageous fiscal system. I'm going to be warned if something like that is going to be in discussions months before it would be voted and I would use another of my citizenships to escape such a nonsense. Nevertheless, the chances are close to zero, because only Southern countries are famous for such retroactive political decisions. Certainly because all their wealthy citizens keep their money abroad.

     

    This is an investors site, I don't really see what an Occupy Wallstreet adept like you forgot here. As I see it, there are two sorts of people. Those who read the news and start to whine about how everything goes bad in this world and others, who read and take appropriate measures to earn money on the news they read. In other words, if you are that smart, why didn't you invest in gold? I moved my own pawns for tomorrow, did you?
    17 Mar 2013, 06:49 PM Reply Like
  • Vuke
    , contributor
    Comments (1666) | Send Message
     
    Unsure Now, you can't accept their stealing? Don't you pay taxes? They've been stealing from us for the last forty years while replacing it with "credit", i.e., debt.
    17 Mar 2013, 07:10 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    7:46 PM "This is a nuclear war on savings and wealth," writes Jefferies' David Zervos of the Cyprus bailout. "This is a policy move you expect from a dictatorial regime ... not in an EU member state. If the EU governments can clandestinely expropriate 7-10% of their (citizens' savings) after the close of business on Friday night, what else are they capable of doing ... Why keep your money at a Spanish or Italian bank when you can jump to Germany or France ... Why even keep money in the EU banking system at all."

     

    You just don't understand the ramifications of this at all...BTW i am not a young man. So have a little respect..Also you have no clue of who or what i do. Nor my educational background. If you cannot understand what this can cause then go to school and learn my friend..Enjoy your Country!! I am not wasting any more time trying to explain any of this to someone closed minded and foolish..

     

    Invest in gold? Why don't you read my post and see what i invest in? Or just look at my moniker and read my bio...This is like talking to my 5 year old years ago. She understood though...

     

    To think i don't own gold and silver , you can't be serious....I have invested in gold since it was $300 bucks an ounce and silver in the teens. How about you? So to question whether i am an investor shows an ignorance on your part..Can you even read?
    17 Mar 2013, 08:02 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Let's add this" investment information"

     

    Crisis on. S&P 500 futures -1% and the euro -1.2% as Brussels "faced with a drowning member...
    Sunday, March 17, 7:30 PM ET
    Crisis on. S&P 500 futures -1% and the euro -1.2% as Brussels "faced with a drowning member state, instead of throwing the Cypriot people a lifebuoy, (throws) a millstone around its neck." EU leaders risk triggering bank runs in Cyprus (and elsewhere?) by going after bank depositors to fund the country's bank bailout.

     

    Here we go folks!!
    17 Mar 2013, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    VUKE

     

    I agree with you. But they are taking it to a much higher level now..The markets don't like it one bit! The scary part is that we need to question is this just the tip of the iceburg??
    17 Mar 2013, 08:38 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Dadidoff,
    You're right.
    18 Mar 2013, 04:27 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Relax, Unsure, and don't beleive everything the (Cypriot)newspapers tell you.
    18 Mar 2013, 04:34 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Unsure,
    make it an iceburger.
    18 Mar 2013, 04:35 AM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    DAVIDOFF

     

    Where i come from your comment would make you a Hypocrite..YOU state that you removed your money from the banks but then say this move is a great move for your country??

     

    So i guess you don't want to pay anything then....And i am the one who is foolish...Nice try though..
    18 Mar 2013, 02:53 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Filipo

     

    Your country is done!! I am sure your happy for some reason i cannot understand..I guess you have no money in those banks either?
    21 Mar 2013, 12:10 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Unsure,
    What does my personal happiness got to do with Cyprus ?
    This is money and business we talk, not hapiness.
    Since I am in no position to influence European politics, I can only give my comments according to what I perceive.
    And what I have been perceiving since 2001 (creation of the euro) is ugly. That opinion will not have caused the ugliness, it is the result of the ugliness.
    My personal opinion has given me reason to take a defensive action regarding my capital. I can assure you: it's safe.
    So please, spare me your morality: I have nothing to do with what Europe does, I even don't consider myself as part of this continent. I live in different countries and everywhere I go I'm perfectly happy.
    21 Mar 2013, 04:10 PM Reply Like
  • wenlock00
    , contributor
    Comments (55) | Send Message
     
    Individual deposits with European banks of up to #100,000 Euro are supposed to be safe and protected by a guarantee scheme. The Cyprus bailout grab will shatter peoples confidence in their European banks and create a further divide between citizens and politicians. Cyprus is small beer but the breaking of the guarantee precedent will have major implications resulting in a lack of credibility of Europe, the Euro and beyond?
    17 Mar 2013, 11:30 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Germans want to punish russian depositors.
    17 Mar 2013, 12:42 PM Reply Like
  • wenlock00
    , contributor
    Comments (55) | Send Message
     
    But they are punishing many other people as well e.g. European retirees / expats. Perhaps they should have stuck to the 100k guarantee and punished the Russian money launderers a bit more?
    17 Mar 2013, 12:59 PM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    We respect foreign investors.
    We will not abondoned foreigners.
    17 Mar 2013, 01:06 PM Reply Like
  • dividend_growth
    , contributor
    Comments (2899) | Send Message
     
    Cypriot banks' total assets are 10 times the country's GDP. Banking super powers such as Switzerland, HK, and UK only have that ratio up to 4 times. Germany's is 2 times, and the US is 1 time.

     

    In addition, Cyprus is a key destination for Russian money and EU tax dodgers.

     

    Therefore, only a small fraction of deposits in Cyprus could be from local population.
    17 Mar 2013, 11:34 AM Reply Like
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3184) | Send Message
     
    Thats not true.

     

    40% are held by "foreigners". But that includes local foreign residents (ie people retired and living in Cyprus and people living/working there). Plus its not known how many of the "foreigners" are actually dual citizenship Russians. It is easy for Russians to acquire dual citizenship in Cyprus.

     

    The bureaucrats are just using "Russians" as the boogeyman to try to give themselves cover.

     

    Theft is theft.
    17 Mar 2013, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Lets see if gold and silver respond this week. If they don't then we have manipulation going on for sure!!
    17 Mar 2013, 11:36 AM Reply Like
  • pdtor
    , contributor
    Comments (1510) | Send Message
     
    Unsure, would love to see a GLD short squeeze
    17 Mar 2013, 07:30 PM Reply Like
  • Zeus2012
    , contributor
    Comments (707) | Send Message
     
    Let's see how the market react to this tomorrow. Could be interesting.

     

    It's always the thing that people least expect that sets off a tsunami. Everyone's focusing on Italy while Cyprus is under the radar due to its relative small size and "insignificance".
    17 Mar 2013, 12:43 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Cyprus is under the radar due to its relative small size and "insignificance".

     

    I think this drastic move might wake people up this time!! We shall see this week..
    17 Mar 2013, 01:23 PM Reply Like
  • Whitehawk
    , contributor
    Comments (3129) | Send Message
     
    How much of a tax haven was Cyprus to ultra high net worth individuals from other domiciles looking to shelter income and wealth? Note the IRS is going after U.S. citizens that have large offshore accounts - so what is the difference?

     

    "The size of foreign deposits in Cyprus - estimated at 37 percent of the total - was one reason the euro zone agreed to the tax on savings"

     

    A number of small countries (e.g., Belize) are also on tenuous financial grounding, sheltering an incredible amount of offshore wealth and could arrange similar measures should a default happen.
    17 Mar 2013, 01:30 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    White,
    and how do the US deal with the Cayman Islands ?
    Do they equally chase US tax evaders there as they do in Switserland ?
    Or could it be they're more interested in neutralizing Swiss banks (Credit Suisse / UBS...) than in chasing US culprits ???
    17 Mar 2013, 04:38 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    If i read correctly thier banks are now closed for a few days as well..I suppose they want to stop a run on their banks..

     

    Nothing good will come from this except people finally taking notice..
    17 Mar 2013, 01:45 PM Reply Like
  • RM13
    , contributor
    Comments (921) | Send Message
     
    If this isn't the bottom for precious metals and another leg up, I don't know what is.

     

    Finally, I don't know that this isn't a positive for stock market holdings - I wouldn't want to hold money in bank accounts, how about substituting low volatility dividend paying ETFs.

     

    I can see significant amount of money flowing from southern Europe into European core and across the pond.
    17 Mar 2013, 02:21 PM Reply Like
  • rfernando80
    , contributor
    Comments (56) | Send Message
     
    That's theft, but it reminds us that live is a struggle for survival and one cannot have absolulute faith in any single state or institutions. Instead, if one wants to survive and want to insure the living standards of his offpring for several generations, diversification is key, not only across assets classes, but also among various jurisdiction and ownership structures.
    17 Mar 2013, 02:51 PM Reply Like
  • The Financial Lexicon
    , contributor
    Comments (302) | Send Message
     
    For those interested, here is my article on the subject:

     

    http://bit.ly/15Utv8o

     

    Regards,

     

    TFL
    17 Mar 2013, 03:24 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    TFL

     

    This is theft. People put money into the bank because its supposed to be risk free. Instead, they end up losing between 7 and 10 percent while the owners of those banks, the senior bond holders, walk away whole. Of course, it will turn out that that the senior bond holders are the EU banks. I can't wait until that tidbit is made public...

     

    Given how the EU honors its bank guaranties, I would expect to see wealth leave EU banks and gold and silver should benefit from that.
    17 Mar 2013, 11:43 PM Reply Like
  • Allan Harris
    , contributor
    Comments (156) | Send Message
     
    This is just the beginning:

     

    http://bit.ly/Z7PdiU

     

    http://bit.ly/Z7PaE1
    17 Mar 2013, 03:43 PM Reply Like
  • WMARKW
    , contributor
    Comments (10700) | Send Message
     
    Beware of weekends !
    17 Mar 2013, 04:00 PM Reply Like
  • Michael Clark
    , contributor
    Comments (9694) | Send Message
     
    SCAM. The argument is that Russian Mafia is hiding assets in Cyprus. The EU insisted that the Russian Mafia helped pay for the bailout. So, why have everyone with less than 100,000 Euros paying 6+%; and the mafiosos over $100,000 Euros only paying 9%?

     

    Clearly, those under $100,000 Euros are not mafiosos. This is how the governments steal all the money they can get their hands on.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:32 PM Reply Like
  • Investorblogger
    , contributor
    Comments (8) | Send Message
     
    While the Cyprus government may sequester this money (it's not a tax), the consequences of doing this will be profound and may damage the very foundations this deal was aimed at creating.

     

    1. Who would leave their deposits in Cyprus, knowing that the greedy eurocrats could easily turn around and say 'sorry, that didn't work!' we need more?

     

    2. Capital outflows will massively erode the foundations of these banks themselves. It's hard to believe new capital would enter Cyprus when the govt. has shown its eagerness to levy this. If I were an oligarch, euro-expat, or whatever, I would certainly cross Cyprus off my list of favored tax havens.

     

    3. If the locals withdraw their cash, the foreigners remit their cash away, and new deposits dry up, it's hard to see how those banks will survive anyway. How can they not breach their capital ratios? How can they not be insolvent?

     

    Lastly, the threat of contagion may be minimized for the moment by the hints that this is not going to be repeated. But who can't forget the admonitions of the prime ministers of Ireland, Portugal, Spain & Greece that they didn't need bailouts. Really they didn't. Honest, guv. Let's count how many times this is denied as well.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:34 PM Reply Like
  • zero1945
    , contributor
    Comments (245) | Send Message
     
    Anyone in Spain, Italy, Greece or Portugal should pull every Euro they have out of the bank immediately.

     

    Your mattress is much safer than an insolvent European bank.

     

    Better yet, convert some of that cash to physical gold and silver as added insurance.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:34 PM Reply Like
  • samuraitrader
    , contributor
    Comments (876) | Send Message
     
    This is a huge, one-time tax levied without representation. I think that it is a tipping point as we watch the slow collapse of the bank credit-based monetary system. The longer they keep the banks closed the worse it will get around the world. Monetary systems come and go and ours is in the process of going.
    17 Mar 2013, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • samuraitrader
    , contributor
    Comments (876) | Send Message
     
    Jim Rogers recently commented on the destruction of the savings class around the world. The Cyprus confiscation confirms this.

     

    http://bit.ly/Z7TgMd

     

    http://bit.ly/132hKyX
    17 Mar 2013, 04:35 PM Reply Like
  • Mario64
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Decision about Cyprus is intended as a loud and clear warning to Italians and other European debtor countries: you have to stick to Brussels mandated austerity, cut salaries, pensions and services, raise taxes and pay back to our banks the money that was lent to you plus due interests; and do never forget that your elected parliaments' fiscal policy must be always submitted to Bundestag for approval.
    If you don't then we'll punish you and mete it out to you, we'll come after you and take your money from your pockets right away.
    I would add that what they did is equivalent to an act of fiscal warfare against the citizens of the most defenceless and politically irrelevant southern Europe state.
    As the ancient saying goes: "Whack one to teach hundreds".
    17 Mar 2013, 04:36 PM Reply Like
  • David Urban
    , contributor
    Comments (1036) | Send Message
     
    I wonder if the US media will even report on this next week?
    17 Mar 2013, 04:46 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    David, let me guess.... probably not.
    Belgian online quality newspapers report it now but in very small articles, after the news on Poverty Pope, Milan-San Remo, Israel willing to start negotiations with Palestina, football, VW hires 50,000 workers more next 5 years, RaiKonen wins the Australian GP and our Royal Princes are one an economic mission to Thailand.
    Obviously for the newspapers Cyprus is redundant. After all, they left them 90%+ of their money. Isn't that great news ? (irony from my part).
    17 Mar 2013, 05:04 PM Reply Like
  • The Long Tail of Finance
    , contributor
    Comments (891) | Send Message
     
    Euro/$ down 1.67 cents. Could there be a buyng opportunity on Monday?
    17 Mar 2013, 05:07 PM Reply Like
  • apppp
    , contributor
    Comments (382) | Send Message
     
    Don't worry guys it's all being done to avoid war in europe because without the Eu we would have been at war already.
    17 Mar 2013, 05:34 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Funny, not one word on CNN yet that i have seen....A gag order is obviously in place!!
    17 Mar 2013, 05:36 PM Reply Like
  • sideline$
    , contributor
    Comments (14) | Send Message
     
    I noticed that also. Got no response from Ali Velshi on twitter.
    18 Mar 2013, 05:12 AM Reply Like
  • papayamon
    , contributor
    Comments (1190) | Send Message
     
    this is far from a done deal. and no, cyprus isn't the tail that's going to wag the dog.
    17 Mar 2013, 05:56 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    Cyprus is a bad scenerio no matter how anyone tries to spin it..Even if it isn't approved depositors already lost money that was suppose to be secure.

     

    They just opened a pandora's box. If people don't see it then i don't know what to say!! Only good luck..

     

    http://bit.ly/111yQrQ.../

     

    Again, maybe this will help people understand what occurred..
    17 Mar 2013, 06:03 PM Reply Like
  • tony1066
    , contributor
    Comments (91) | Send Message
     
    Question- what happens when the Cypriot govt. chooses to start confiscating gold and/or silver?

     

    Can this be the start of something far more sinister?
    17 Mar 2013, 06:09 PM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    Tony- Only the Shadow knows, Ha, ha, ha :)
    17 Mar 2013, 06:55 PM Reply Like
  • Tack
    , contributor
    Comments (14395) | Send Message
     
    Looks like the idiots will be out in full bloom tomorrow, as SPX futures are down 15+, already, shortly after the open. For those with sense enough to avoid the emotional silliness, I can only advise to look around for some discounted buys or some put options to sell during the panic.

     

    This Cyprus news and market reaction is even dumber than the reaction to Berlusconi's election results. I didn't think that could be possible, but one should never underestimate people's proclivity to panic.
    17 Mar 2013, 06:19 PM Reply Like
  • RSI Raistlin
    , contributor
    Comments (400) | Send Message
     
    DOH!!! Why didn't I leave those puts in place.......damn head fake volume spike.......
    17 Mar 2013, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    I'd feel better about things if the government hadn't made it impossible to buy bullets....
    17 Mar 2013, 07:28 PM Reply Like
  • Snoopy1
    , contributor
    Comments (1118) | Send Message
     
    So do you fear black helicopters too?
    17 Mar 2013, 09:21 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    Can you buy bullets? Anywhere?
    17 Mar 2013, 11:15 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    JOHN

     

    I have drones for rent?
    17 Mar 2013, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • JohnBinTN
    , contributor
    Comments (4029) | Send Message
     
    That's dodging.... Answer the question. I'll give ya' some help - the answer is no.
    18 Mar 2013, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • enigmaman
    , contributor
    Comments (2686) | Send Message
     
    Now Cyprus idiotcrats are rethinking this bailout savings tax looking to shift more of the burden on to larger depositors (social fairness) in excess of 100,000 Euro and either vacating the lower tax or reducing it. Talk about adding fuel to the fire, this reconsideration is going to blow up in their faces more then if they left it as is. Indecision not what Cyprus needs right now!
    17 Mar 2013, 07:31 PM Reply Like
  • Unsure Now
    , contributor
    Comments (406) | Send Message
     
    ENIG

     

    They opened pandoras box my friend...Germany is looking on to see what actually happens. they can't be happy that's for sure..
    17 Mar 2013, 09:28 PM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    enigma,
    The wanna sift out the Russians.
    Putin agrees. He has since long a dark eye on his oligarchist compatriots.
    18 Mar 2013, 04:40 AM Reply Like
  • Retired2thDoc
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    The CBC in Canada reported at length at the opening of the newscast.
    I'm sure the morning newscasts will feature this development.
    I will report what I hear and see from the States to you tomorrow (Monday).
    Great, wide-ranging perspectives and discussion here on my first day on SA. Thanks to all
    17 Mar 2013, 11:34 PM Reply Like
  • RSI Raistlin
    , contributor
    Comments (400) | Send Message
     
    welcome retired
    17 Mar 2013, 11:41 PM Reply Like
  • Retired2thDoc
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    Thanks,RSI
    18 Mar 2013, 04:58 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Cyprus is an experiment.
    I lost some of deposits.
    I short euro against sterling on Friday.
    I will try to get even.
    i hope the Euro will collapse.
    It will be my revenge.
    i want cyprus out of the eurozone.
    18 Mar 2013, 01:53 AM Reply Like
  • Michael Clark
    , contributor
    Comments (9694) | Send Message
     
    Scam. They say they wanted to get some money from the Russian mafia hiding millions in Cyprus? So they tax those with less than 100,000 Euros 6%. How many Russian mafiosos are hiding money in bank accounts in Cyprus with less than 100,000 Euros? Just theft by the government, pure and simple. The Cypriots should take up arms against their government.
    18 Mar 2013, 05:02 AM Reply Like
  • WhispersofWisdom
    , contributor
    Comments (94) | Send Message
     
    This action of taking / stealing innocent investor deposits
    is insane; especially when associated with a change in the deposit insurance up
    to a set limit. This is exactly like when former U.S. Treasury Secretary Hank
    Paulson acted to change the laws surrounding FNMA and FHLMC. They wiped out
    bank capital so fast it threw U.S. banks into a downward spiral. This latest
    nightmare in Cyprus is an act of pure despair and not well thought out ... In
    fact, it will move people to pull money from banks that cannot afford to have
    the deposits leave. I cannot fathom any action more lethal than taking money
    from all depositor’s in one "swoop.". This will not end well, in my
    opinion. The EU has now bailed out one country after another...then allowed the
    bailouts to fail over and over. Relax the terms, extend the loans, etc. etc.
    Without a central bank and a printing press, it all fails. Most countries would
    be better out of the Euro...devalue their currencies and make their own
    economies competitive again. : )
    18 Mar 2013, 05:18 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    I am personaly lost money.

     

    The haircut will happened again.

     

    Nothing in life is sure and hobody is safe.

     

    There is more tsunami coming soon.

     

    Germany will have a bad end.
    18 Mar 2013, 03:33 PM Reply Like
  • Lulu10072961
    , contributor
    Comments (2) | Send Message
     
    Good morning all,

     

    I am not a trader by any means, but know enough about the markets. I have been in the financial industry for a long long time, dealing with front and back office,fund management etc, that was until I was made redundant from my last role last October, whereby I was a manager, now tring to get back into work not easy!

     

    I made a lot of friends on LinkedIn including Ivan101 who the recommended me to this website, for which I owe a big thank you.

     

    I am not sure I am going to be as good all of you on this site, but I am going to participate and maybe even write something of my own, letting the world know it isn't rosy in London by any means. 20 March is our government budget for the new new fiscal year, we are expecting additional cutbacks,which could effect our GDP and the sterling. I will let you let you all know. Thank you all
    19 Mar 2013, 04:11 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    Lulu,
    Glad to have someone from the UK amidst us.
    Don't feel shy on that not-so-rosy feeling. You're not alone. Half of the world, especially the West, experiences this.
    You mean you actually live in London ? I'm only asking cause that's where my relatives live (Sydenham).
    19 Mar 2013, 04:30 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    well done !
    21 Mar 2013, 10:53 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    The Cyprus minister of economics is on his to Moscow.
    I am predicting there will be no haircut at the end.
    19 Mar 2013, 10:49 AM Reply Like
  • filipo
    , contributor
    Comments (4024) | Send Message
     
    ivan,
    Are you sure he's going to come back too ?
    A haircut or a head cut, the difference is rather semantic.
    19 Mar 2013, 11:29 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Cyprus is in under siege.
    21 Mar 2013, 10:56 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    There are breaking news in Cyprus.
    21 Mar 2013, 12:21 PM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    One bank is closing. Some of depositors will loose half ot their money.
    The cypriot government will save 2,3 billion euros. This is very good
    for taxpayers. The shareholders are loosing all their money.
    22 Mar 2013, 12:04 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    areholders allready lost 95% of their money. This is the final blow
    for their shareholders. i am a shareholder and i agree with all of these.
    The bank economic condition was very bad. The banks break to
    good and bank hopefully will save the other banking system.
    The bank investment in greek bonds was a big mistake.
    The cypriot parliament will vote today for the bank resolution.
    22 Mar 2013, 12:13 AM Reply Like
  • losbronces
    , contributor
    Comments (792) | Send Message
     
    But were they not forced to invest in Greek bonds through pressure from the EU?
    22 Mar 2013, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    One bank closure and a haircut will make the deal.
    22 Mar 2013, 10:33 AM Reply Like
  • ivan101
    , contributor
    Comments (53) | Send Message
     
    Banks are opened 2 hours ago.
    They will open for 6 hours.
    There are many people deposit money !
    28 Mar 2013, 08:33 AM Reply Like
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