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Windows RT (MSFT) has "a very bright future," insists Microsoft exec Michael Angiulo, addressing...

Windows RT (MSFT) has "a very bright future," insists Microsoft exec Michael Angiulo, addressing concerns about the ARM-powered (ARMH) OS' viability in the wake of weak sales and industry criticism. Angiulo suggests the performance of future ARM chips will give RT a boost, and actually argues RT's inability to support legacy Windows apps is good for the user experience. The Verge's Aaron Souppouris isn't sold, not after seeing a Windows 8 Pro system running an Intel (INTC) Clover Trail Atom CPU easily outperform RT systems. (Intel Bay Trail)
Comments (39)
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    This is why nobody trusts Microsoft's management. Less features, and killing the only "moat" you have is now a selling point?
    22 Mar 2013, 05:50 PM Reply Like
  • wigit5
    , contributor
    Comments (4101) | Send Message
     
    that dude needs to be fired... or at the very least his right to speak publicly concerning the company revoked.
    23 Mar 2013, 04:15 PM Reply Like
  • Heinz Doofenshmirtz
    , contributor
    Comments (271) | Send Message
     
    Maybe the coffin is equipped with stage lights?
    22 Mar 2013, 06:02 PM Reply Like
  • Yaron Ron Reuven
    , contributor
    Comments (465) | Send Message
     
    everyone likes a fairy tale, only problem is that it stops being enjoyable once your grow up. for some reason MSFT's management thinks their customers are 6 years old. I'd be surprised if RT survives 2013. I wonder if ARM bulls are now thinking about all that extra premium they paid for shares based on the hopes of the RT, and whether they're smart enough to bail out before the world catches up on this nonsensical technology
    22 Mar 2013, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • rjgood
    , contributor
    Comments (233) | Send Message
     
    Windows RT has nothing to do with ARM. Windows RT brings critical features that Pro/Desktop will never have, regardless of the CPU:
    1. App declarations share functionality: An apps functionality is shared with other apps that declare the same functionality.

     

    * I.e. If I "declare" my app as having a contact list, then any app (i.e. the default Mail app, Skype) can see and use my app's contact list. The user owns that contact list after all, and should be able to use his/her contacts in any app.

     

    2. No multitasking, ever: This is a good thing for battery life, and for security. Most users love multitasking, and never use it. It's a "I love my V12 engine, but I only drive to the grocery store" type mentality.

     

    3. Security: An app can never touch your location, disk drive, web cam, network, etc. unless that app declares the desire to do so. When that app actually uses that function (i.e. a web cam), Windows RT pops up an Allow/Decline window for the user.

     

    In the end, it is about their new app architecture, and ecosystem that is directly integrated in the OS on all devices, in all apps. Not as an iTunes knock-off, but directly plugged in to everything.

     

    It is unfortunate that so many people dislike the "Metro" side of things, when RT is actually light years ahead of the competition.
    22 Mar 2013, 06:33 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    "No multitasking, ever: This is a good thing for battery life, and for security. Most users love multitasking, and never use it."

     

    If they never use it, then it shouldn't drain the battery...
    22 Mar 2013, 07:39 PM Reply Like
  • rjgood
    , contributor
    Comments (233) | Send Message
     
    Heya Ashraf,

     

    I admire your humor, but I detect a biased negativity when it comes to this topic. Unfortunate, when considering the source.

     

    MSFT may have failed to grab the hearts of folks like yourself, but has succeeded in educating software professionals like myself in what the future will look like.

     

    I expect AAPL and GOOG to copy the RT architecture in an upcoming version. Maybe not 2013, maybe not 2014, but it will come. Or maybe it will be Steam? They also seem biased.
    22 Mar 2013, 09:23 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    Uh, again, what does RT offer that Windows 8 doesn't, other than less features and compatibility?
    22 Mar 2013, 09:26 PM Reply Like
  • rjgood
    , contributor
    Comments (233) | Send Message
     
    Fully connected, immersed ecosystem. On the OS level. On the app level. On the device level. On the permissions level. Nobody else offers that.
    22 Mar 2013, 09:31 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    rjgood,

     

    Riiighttt....so why don't I just buy this? http://bit.ly/14cYluI
    22 Mar 2013, 09:32 PM Reply Like
  • rjgood
    , contributor
    Comments (233) | Send Message
     
    No need to waste seeking alpha space on this conversation. It would take weeks/months to train you on the technology details in the big picture. Even my MSFT/AAPL/GOOG employee contacts don't get it.

     

    http://seekingalpha.co...

     

    To sum up from that link...

     

    One note: I am currently 100% MSFT ecosystem, which is why I can see where they are going (my wife dumped GOOG, my sister dumped BBRY...after seeing how well all devices play together.)

     

    My setup:
    1. Windows 8 PCs (both work and home, my wife also)
    2. Acer Windows 8 tablet (home.)
    3. Lumia 920 Windows Phone 8
    4. Xbox 360

     

    My family dumped our cable company for Xbox live + Netflix. AT&T uverse was $120 per mo, our new bill is $18 per mo.

     

    It is obvious to me, that MSFT is one minor step away from a very compelling consumer ecosystem. Why?
    1. I purchase movies/music on Xbox or Windows 8 Store, they play on *all* devices. Price is about $10 for movie, $2 for TV episode. Can rent for $3.
    2. I purchase one copy of Office 365, it installs on *all* devices.
    3. All of my documents are viewable on PC, tablet and smartphone via Skydrive.
    4. Any movie/TVshow I subscribe to (Netflix, Hulu, Blip, CinemaNow) will play on *all* devices.
    5. My MP3/MP4 library is exposed to all devices, even streams to my Xbox via Media Center on Windows 8.

     

    I can go on. MSFT is onto something here, now its time for them to execute while they still have significant consumer marketshare.
    22 Mar 2013, 10:11 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    Okay...rjgood...it looks like we agree...all I am saying is that I would rather buy a Windows 8 tablet than a Windows RT one. That's it.

     

    My desktop PC and my laptop both run Windows 8, and I am quite happy with them.
    22 Mar 2013, 10:24 PM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3612) | Send Message
     
    "Fully connected, immersed ecosystem."

     

    Translation: "ARM performance and features suck."
    22 Mar 2013, 11:19 PM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3612) | Send Message
     
    "Even my MSFT/AAPL/GOOG employee contacts don't get it."

     

    That's a shock. You mean the inane "fully connected, immersed ecosystem" doesn't sell product?
    22 Mar 2013, 11:24 PM Reply Like
  • berylrb
    , contributor
    Comments (2205) | Send Message
     
    @Rjgood, iOS already does your #1&3, at least since v4 now on 6
    23 Mar 2013, 01:05 AM Reply Like
  • jimdart
    , contributor
    Comments (134) | Send Message
     
    So your saying stay on or go with iOS and wait for 2 ,4 & 5??
    23 Mar 2013, 05:11 PM Reply Like
  • berylrb
    , contributor
    Comments (2205) | Send Message
     
    @jimdart, actually I was commenting/replying to rjgood's original list, that is,

     

    1. functionality shared with other apps, e.g., contact lists - Yes! even 3rd parties, I use GroupText and MailShot every other day at least and both access Address Book, MailShot even allows groups it creates to be used by Mail. iOS=>MailShot, MailShot=>iOS

     

    2. Multitasking - iOS has always multitasked, just not split windows like Android, so I didn't comment on that

     

    3. Security, allow/decline - unless I misunderstand, iOS has done this from the beginning too, I believe some apps give the user the option to turn off some notifications w/r to security.

     

    BTW, I was responding to this comment, "In the end, it is about their new app architecture, and ecosystem that is directly integrated in the OS on all devices, in all apps. Not as an iTunes knock-off, but directly plugged in to everything." Not sure what an iTunes knock-off means but integration across all devices is what makes an ecosystem an ecosystem in my book, to claim otherwise means that iOS/OS/Apple does not have an ecosystem, nonsense, the existence of such has been talked about ad nauseum on SA.

     

    Now as far as the other list, the 1-5 list, there was no direct misinformation about iOS to respond too. :^)
    23 Mar 2013, 10:36 PM Reply Like
  • silverscreen
    , contributor
    Comments (189) | Send Message
     
    Shame on Angiulo, he should have just randomly thrown in words such as "glasses", "watches", "wristbands", etc. in the interview and would have brought MSFT up a few points!
    22 Mar 2013, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • JoeCraftsman
    , contributor
    Comments (15) | Send Message
     
    At least Microsoft realizes that they need to address the growing tablet market. If anyone believes windows 8 or a cursor based windowed user interface works, they are just confused. Also, read microsoft's annual report. It's clear they are moving to a cloud based model and windows rt, whether running on an ARM or x86, makes a perfect device to be the terminal to the cloud.
    22 Mar 2013, 07:42 PM Reply Like
  • russellm454
    , contributor
    Comments (128) | Send Message
     
    I love my RT with the only drawback I have noticed being it is no speed demon compared to the Intel based Surface Pro. But it also comes preloaded with Office RT a big plus.
    22 Mar 2013, 08:36 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    You could have bought a full Windows 8 tablet for the same price. http://bit.ly/14cYluI

     

    It's not the Surface Pro that I'm talking about...it's Atom based tablets.
    22 Mar 2013, 08:37 PM Reply Like
  • Investor Llew
    , contributor
    Comments (300) | Send Message
     
    I took a look at the Asus Tablet you linked. It seems it doesn't come with Office.

     

    I wonder what would be the full price with Office? I looked up Office Pro 2013 and it costs around $360.

     

    So, if the Asus Tablet Pro is $480 + Office Pro $360 = $840 compared to MS RT of $499, I think it is fairer to say that the RT version is about 40% cheaper than that particular Asus.

     

    That would be a better comparison on Pricing.

     

    I bought the MS RT when it came out. It's working quite fine and does exactly what I want it to do including Excel. I'm a heavy user and it pretty much functions really well.

     

    A slight disappointment is that Microsoft didn't port Silverlight. Without Silverlight, I can't do somethings such as using the Charting tools on a website like FreeStockCharts.com

     

    The RT is worth it for me because I don't want to replace my desktop which is a Gaming Rig.

     

    I just need something mobile with Office. No need to spend extra since I don't need any other application besides Office.

     

    The rest of you can pay 40% more.
    23 Mar 2013, 01:51 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    Windows RT's Office isn't full office...and picking the most expensive version of Office skews the comparison. Paid $120 for my copy that I can use on 3 computers...one of which could be the Win8 tab.
    23 Mar 2013, 01:56 PM Reply Like
  • Investor Llew
    , contributor
    Comments (300) | Send Message
     
    You're right, I did a search on the Pro version for the above comment of Office. So $120 seems right for the Home version.

     

    So it would be $500 for RT versus $480 + $120 or $600, but you get 3 licenses.

     

    That's actually not a bad deal for the Asus!

     

    I tried to see if prices have dropped for the RT, and so far, not really.
    23 Mar 2013, 02:14 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    Investor Llew,

     

    Yep...and it's full Office, not the fairly limited one for RT :)
    23 Mar 2013, 03:46 PM Reply Like
  • Investor Llew
    , contributor
    Comments (300) | Send Message
     
    I can't see how RT can compete with given the competition with the Asus and probably a few others.

     

    It was probably intentional, no? MS wanted the competition to have the OEMs support Windows RT.

     

    So you think this is going the way of the dinosaur?

     

    Looks like I have a collector's item on my hand! :) I'll wrap it in plastic and keep for a long time LOL!
    23 Mar 2013, 07:45 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    Investor Llew,

     

    I think WinRT is not going to survive.
    23 Mar 2013, 07:46 PM Reply Like
  • Joeswindon
    , contributor
    Comments (41) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, a very bright future just like microsoft vista, microsoft win7 and microsoft win8.
    22 Mar 2013, 10:22 PM Reply Like
  • Mike Bruzzone
    , contributor
    Comments (152) | Send Message
     
    Ok, here's the inside scoop.

     

    A tug of war internally egineering platform v sales above the OEM fray where everyone at ARM aware of this irrational relaity knew there had to be beta validation first for customer good sales stories before RT introduction and too fill the whole product requirement.

     

    Now Microsoft begs constant imnprovement and they are correct.

     

    Mike Bruzzone
    Camp Marketing
    23 Mar 2013, 12:52 AM Reply Like
  • mlopatni
    , contributor
    Comments (25) | Send Message
     
    Hi,
    I just got my Lenovo think Pad2 tablet, and I can say that I love it...
    one of the major advantages that I see is the ability to get the regular desktop mode, with all PC programs running...+ all devices can be connected with regular USB (all drivers are available from PC world.

     

    This is the only thing that can compensate on the small number of native tablet on win8 applications.

     

    so I can't understand people that buy RT version...
    esspecialy that performance and battery life is the same, if not better on intel machines(Atom).For users that need more power, just get Core version of Windows tablets.

     

    I do agree, that most of the people yet understood the full advantage of windows on tablets and phones..
    they + home PCs finally can be seamlessly connected...

     

    the only problem I see, for now is win8 learning curve, it is lees intuitive then android/IOS...but if more people will use the win8 on desctop...it will become more natural for them to use it on tablets/phones...

     

    so, my conclusions:
    1.Win8 platform on tablets/phones...has a bright future
    2.WinRT will die, since it doesn't utilize one of the greatest advantages of Win8 on Intel processors -> backward compatibility and having tablet and PC on one device!
    23 Mar 2013, 08:44 AM Reply Like
  • flybywire54
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    @miopatni
    Win RT can not run on Intel processor used mainly in pc and laptops, anymore then Win8 can run on Qualcomm or Nvidia processors based on power saving ARM architecture used in mobile devices . The only reason for Win Rt existence is that Intel processor need too much power for true mobility and are more costly so MFST ported win8 on ARM processorand called it RT .Yes IF Intel launches a mobile processor , both powerful ,low consumption , and priced like ARM types , then yes RT will die but we are not there yet by some margin.
    23 Mar 2013, 11:38 AM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (9034) | Send Message
     
    "Yes IF Intel launches a mobile processor , both powerful ,low consumption , and priced like ARM types , then yes RT will die but we are not there yet by some margin."

     

    They already did. It's called Clover Trail.
    23 Mar 2013, 11:41 AM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3612) | Send Message
     
    fly, the only reason for Win RT is that ARM doesn't have the single thread performance needed to run full Windows 8, and MSFT wanted a hedge in the ARM versus Atom battle. It would be trivial to run a ported Win RT on Clover Trail, but there's no point as Clover Trail is already proving it can run the real Windows OS.

     

    Clover Trail is already proving that hedge isn't necessary. You're "not there yet by some margin" hasn't been accurate for some time. Keep in mind Bay Trail is going to be much better than Clover Trail.

     

    "Intel vs. Microsoft: was Windows RT a mistake?"
    http://bit.ly/Y5iK1l
    23 Mar 2013, 01:43 PM Reply Like
  • mlopatni
    , contributor
    Comments (25) | Send Message
     
    Please check reviews, we are there...
    You are right, for time when win Rt was developed, Intel didn't have any competitive platform on atom, but things changed...check recent reviews of Samsung win Rt vs win pro machines, Rt uses Qualcomm device and pro uses clovertrail.

     

    I am sure you will be able to Google it...
    23 Mar 2013, 03:42 PM Reply Like
  • flybywire54
    , contributor
    Comments (724) | Send Message
     
    @ cincinnatus

     

    I meant not there yet in terms of processing power
    The clovertrail Atom is way behind I5 sandy bridge in terms of processing power . Try to run 3d video games or imaging software ,I did ,on an Atom then compare to an I5 . A surface pro supposed to run all programs even demanding ones , it's called. pro after all , if powered by an Atom would have been underpowered . Now from the point of view of the OS ,forget surface , MFST sells to. OEM . Those decide what they want . If some want an ARM compatible version MFST has it. , if they want a x86 version MFST has it as well . Window phone runs on ARM so not much effort to come up with windows RT . I really don't see the problem . I think Ballmer and his team hedged for all eventualities as venturing in uncharted territory especially in regard to Google . Now why they did not release a surface "Lite" running on Atom ? Surface is more a proof of concept and a visionary product so they had to prove windows rt as well . I don't think MFST has the ambition of becoming another Acer or Dell .
    25 Mar 2013, 08:48 PM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3612) | Send Message
     
    flybywire,
    I don't have an issue with MSFT doing Win RT. I think it was a necessary hedge for them until Intel gets well above 50% market share in tablets. After that it becomes questionable whether or not it's worth it to try to get a slice of the ARM market, if say ARM is <30% of the tablet and convertibles market.

     

    My Clover Trail comment was in reply to your "we are not there yet" comment with respect to performance and low power consumption. We are there as far as x86, and Bay Trail will only widen the gap.

     

    As far as Surface Pro I expect that will remain the Core line where Haswell with less than 20W parts will fit nicely. Whether or not they'll do a Surface variant of Bay Trail is a question, but as I think you're saying in the last few sentences, as a reference platform it probably doesn't make sense given that Windows on Atom will do quite fine on it's own without MSFT's prodding.
    25 Mar 2013, 09:27 PM Reply Like
  • Yaron Ron Reuven
    , contributor
    Comments (465) | Send Message
     
    The reason why windows Rt was developed in the first place has more to do with a systemic problem MSFT has as a result of being a public company, than bc the tech offered something innovative or unique. Because MSFT is public they must satisfy their 2 bosses, first being the customer (vice president), and second being their Investors (CEO). Like a traditional ceo, the investors demand constant growth on a monthly basis even in order to meet the streets' expectations and have a rising stock price. This is done even if it jeopordize s the Vice Pesidents (customers) happiness since many of these CEO's are arrogant enough to believe that everyone is replaceable. Like mlopatni said, Since intel wasn't ready with their tablet product at the time the CEO still demanded growth even if it was temporary and put the VP's job in jeopardy. Now that intel is here, the windows rt has no purpose and will therefore be thrown out along with many unhappy VPs (customers). I hope you understood and enjoyed my cartoonish depiction of corp America.
    23 Mar 2013, 08:39 PM Reply Like
  • berylrb
    , contributor
    Comments (2205) | Send Message
     
    Interesting, I always thought RT was developed to compete heads to heads with the iPad, which is not trying to be a full computer in tablet form, which used to be called an ultrabook, that's the MacBook Air's job. Which makes total sense to me especially given the market share of the iPad in either form - original 10" or mini.

     

    I don't get why MSFT investors are upset that Microsoft is trying to compete in this obviously high growth area? After all there really are millions of non-geeks who don't need a Full-Office running tablet, and many of them actually do work real work on something other than Office?!? For instance I peronsally work with a CPA, Construction Management exec, and a Gerontologist who each say the iPad is crucial for their business, and I doubt they play solitaire with their clients!

     

    My point is, and I'm not a MSFT investor, it doesn't make sense for Microsoft to ignore the iPad space -- sub-$500 tablet as opposed to the $800 and up Pro ultra book hybrid???
    23 Mar 2013, 10:46 PM Reply Like
  • David O'Berry
    , contributor
    Comments (55) | Send Message
     
    So in another thread, someone mentioned some tech that AMD has that I was not all that aware of that can bridge the RT and x86 platforms in silicon. Anyone done any research whatsoever on that because to me that opens up a ton of opportunities for a number of companies if it works.

     

    If not, I am digging deeper when I get a chance but I like head starts.

     

    D
    24 Mar 2013, 03:37 PM Reply Like
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