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Apple (AAPL) "will introduce the first 64-bit ARM-based chip this year," writes Evercore's...

Apple (AAPL) "will introduce the first 64-bit ARM-based chip this year," writes Evercore's Patrick Wang. Wang doesn't state which Apple products the chip will go into, but does note the adoption of 64-bit parts will lift ARM's (ARMH +3.4%) royalty rates. He also sees a 2H ramp in chips using ARM's big.LITTLE architecture boosting rates, and talks up the potential of ARM server CPUs from Applied Micro (AMCC -1.5%) and Cavium (CAVM -0.5%) - Wang sees AMCC's X-Gene CPU cementing its early lead in the market. ARM announced its 64-bit Cortex-A50 cores in October. (previous: I, II)
Comments (30)
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    The instruction set was - just - released. Don't expect a 64 bit Apple chip this year.

     

    X-Gene will cement no lead, as the chip just started sampling in late January. Intel's "Avoton" and solutions from Calxeda will make it to market before AMCC's solution and likely be superior.
    25 Mar 2013, 01:03 PM Reply Like
  • newbie06
    , contributor
    Comments (255) | Send Message
     
    Ashraf,

     

    ARMv8 64-bit was announced end of 2011 and obviously had already been in development for years. Software tools have been available for months, Linux kernel is here, simulators exist; as a student in computer science, you should know this means things were set in stone long before publicly announced ;-)

     

    Original announcement: http://bit.ly/14jvyof
    25 Mar 2013, 01:52 PM Reply Like
  • G13Man
    , contributor
    Comments (305) | Send Message
     
    agree with newbee
    some pple do not understand that to make a chip the IP/instructions are set and the chip has to match . You can add more instructions , but they may be irrelevant . You can put it with other functions , such as memory controllers, USB , graphics , etc. on a SOC , to increase value and reduce over all cost of implementation . The market will determine survivors and winners . Not interrupted articles by some who seem to be missing info..
    25 Mar 2013, 03:38 PM Reply Like
  • verylargelarry
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    Readers should be aware that Ashraf is long INTC and short ARMH. He has been pumping the one and trashing the other for some time now. View his comments.
    25 Mar 2013, 01:18 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    I invest based on my views, and I make no attempt to hide my positions. What do you do, verylargelarry?
    25 Mar 2013, 01:22 PM Reply Like
  • verylargelarry
    , contributor
    Comments (59) | Send Message
     
    What I do is resent youthful Know-it-alls who lack maturity, perspective and objectivity. You will grow up Ashraf.

     

    Stand back and let some other views be presented. You may learn something. Your tireless fencing with any poster who dares challenge your absolutist view is very tiresome.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:56 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    "What I do is resent youthful Know-it-alls who lack maturity, perspective and objectivity. You will grow up Ashraf."

     

    That's funny - I'd probably characterize you in quite a similar fashion from your personal attacks ;)

     

    I don't discount ARM-based competitors in this space. Qualcomm seems to be interested in this space, as well as Samsung. Calxeda has been making some interesting progress and has products shipping today - no hype, just clear evidence of a viable product lineup.

     

    AMCC has done nothing but hype, hype, hype and delay. No products on the market yet, just powerpoints.
    25 Mar 2013, 06:31 PM Reply Like
  • Taalib
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    There's also a good chance that AppliedMicro will be will be shipping their 64bit ARM server product X-GENE this year as well. http://bit.ly/YPPCqB
    25 Mar 2013, 01:54 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, built on a 40nm process and very late to market. Intel and Calxeda will eat AMCC alive
    25 Mar 2013, 02:05 PM Reply Like
  • Taalib
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    40nm - yes - but a very sophisticated SOC with many networking and other features integrated to maximise performance and energy efficiency. Those should go a long way compensate for the 40nm geometry.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    What? You mean it's going to try to integrate a lot of things onto a single die with enormous transistors? Does this smell of anything but disaster to you?

     

    The reason i'm skeptical is that AMCC tried this before many years ago with "Titan". A magical PowerPC based SoC that claimed amazing efficiency, unprecedented integration...it never made it to market.

     

    We'll see how X-Gene does, but it needs to make it to market first.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • Taalib
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    Ashraf. This time AMCC is not alone. It is working with ARM. ARM just doesn't license the instruction set but also, for example, physical IP. ARM is an enabler - it cooperates with its partners
    25 Mar 2013, 02:19 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    ARM's experience in servers & its massive R&D budget will surely help it make a dent against Intel, when IBM's POWER, Oracle's SPARC, and others have all systematically fallen by the wayside against Intel.

     

    I'll believe it when I see it. $AMCC promised X-Gene by 2012, but it won't be commercially available until 2014. The hype is strong with this one.

     

    That being said, I did cover my short position today, primarily because I have to see if the sell side will try to pump this name further or not.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:22 PM Reply Like
  • Taalib
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    If Apple are going ARM 64bit then Samsung will be too! And all that 64bit learning will be leveraged across the ARM ecosystem into the server space along side the mindshare created by AppliedMicro/X-Gene and others!
    25 Mar 2013, 02:07 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    What are you talking about? Does Apple's R&D team help out Samsung's?
    25 Mar 2013, 02:09 PM Reply Like
  • Bandwidth Hog
    , contributor
    Comments (16) | Send Message
     
    Apple is Samsung's R&D team.
    25 Mar 2013, 03:02 PM Reply Like
  • newbie06
    , contributor
    Comments (255) | Send Message
     
    Ashraf,

     

    Yes Apple R&D indirectly helps Samsung in the software. LLVM is an example.

     

    I'm afraid you're too quick to dismiss the advantages of the ARM ecosystem, you can't be blamed, it's so alien to the Wintel monopoly world you have been educated in... Of course Apple and Samsung are fighting each other, but both participate to the ARM ecosystem thus making it stronger as a whole.
    25 Mar 2013, 03:10 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    newbie06,

     

    I don't dismiss the advantages that come from ARM enabling a common software ecosystem - that's fundamentally why ARM is so dangerous to Intel/X86. I just have no faith in Applied Micro.

     

    My only problem with ARM is the ridiculous amount of hype surrounding its stock/future earnings potential. It does good things for the broader computing industry as a whole.
    25 Mar 2013, 06:38 PM Reply Like
  • bellapadula
    , contributor
    Comments (155) | Send Message
     
    LOL!

     

    Nice one!
    26 Mar 2013, 03:06 PM Reply Like
  • Taalib
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    Ashraf, Ashraf. People, knowledge, ideas, and skills moves around.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:15 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    Yeah, okay. $AMCC's $10M/qtr R&D for these server chips is going to seriously compete with Intel's massive investments in its highly profitable data center group. Gotcha.

     

    Samsung is the most credible micro-server threat to Intel at this point.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:16 PM Reply Like
  • Taalib
    , contributor
    Comments (194) | Send Message
     
    If you put it that way no. BUT if you look at the diversity of products emerging from the ARM ecosystem - it will be more like a death by a thousand cuts for Intel as opposed to any single killer blow.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:24 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    If you look at the diversity of the products all aimed at the same markets, you realize that there is very little room for anybody to profit in the near term.

     

    There's a reason most non-trivial industries consolidate to 2-3 players, but as long as people keep buying the ARM fantasy, I'll keep selling the longs their own shares.
    25 Mar 2013, 02:29 PM Reply Like
  • G13Man
    , contributor
    Comments (305) | Send Message
     
    "If you look at the diversity of the products all aimed at the same markets, you realize that there is very little room for anybody to profit in the near term."
    does this mean INTL as well ? is why their are so few car manufacturer's ?
    25 Mar 2013, 06:29 PM Reply Like
  • Rob Tanner
    , contributor
    Comments (667) | Send Message
     
    Warren East already said one large partner had moved very aggressively on 64 bit. That was WE speak for coming soon.
    25 Mar 2013, 05:50 PM Reply Like
  • Ashraf Eassa
    , contributor
    Comments (8857) | Send Message
     
    I'd bet on Samsung in that case...or Calxeda.
    25 Mar 2013, 06:35 PM Reply Like
  • newbie06
    , contributor
    Comments (255) | Send Message
     
    Ashraf,

     

    why would that be Samsung or Calxeda and not Apple? Among those 3, only one has demonstrated the ability of designing a CPU and it's Apple.
    26 Mar 2013, 11:17 AM Reply Like
  • a. spelunker
    , contributor
    Comment (1) | Send Message
     
    Large partner rules out Calxeda. And Samsung doesn't design their own cores. Of the remaining possibilities I'd only classify Apple, NVIDIA, and Qualcomm as large. Of those three NVIDIA and Qualcomm both telegraph their roadmap. That leaves Apple.
    5 May 2013, 09:16 AM Reply Like
  • VeryCurious
    , contributor
    Comments (109) | Send Message
     
    DEC 64 bit Alpha workstations in 1992.
    25 Mar 2013, 10:18 PM Reply Like
  • raydx
    , contributor
    Comments (27) | Send Message
     
    It would be interesting if Apple does enter the server market.
    26 Mar 2013, 03:20 PM Reply Like
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