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The White House reveals details of its student loan relief plan a day ahead of Pres. Obama's...

The White House reveals details of its student loan relief plan a day ahead of Pres. Obama's announcement. Monthly payments for some students will be reduced to 10% of discretionary income, debt balances will be forgiven after 20 years of payments, and some students can consolidate their loans with government loans into a single payment with a reduced interest rate.
Comments (41)
  • Lint
    , contributor
    Comments (391) | Send Message
     
    too much house? No problem! Too much credit card debt? No worries! $80,000 student loan debt for a liberal arts degree?? No fuss, no muss!

     

    "debt balances will be forgiven after 20 years of payments"

     

    see, there are such things are unicorns that poop skittles.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:03 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    I am heading to the bank manana to borrow a ton of money because I am sure there is a relief package coming my way.

     

    Actually Obama must feel he needs to buy off the students for next year's election because they are 2 years older and smarter now and probably think they got screwed by his hope and change.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:05 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > probably think they got screwed by his hope and change.

     

    Well, they got screwed by something.

     

    Put yourself in a recent graduate's shoes for a second.

     

    Let's say you went off to college in 2007, even for a sensible degree like some kind of engineering. The economy was starting to teeter, but mostly the housing market, which you aren't remotely involved in.

     

    Four years later, we have the worst unemployment in your post-adolescent lifetime, with more than 4 job-seekers for every job...and the right is telling you it's all YOUR fault you can't get a job.

     

    The only appropriate response is, of course, "Dude WTF!?"

     

    A good write-up on this, from a Republican:
    http://bit.ly/vrgsEg
    25 Oct 2011, 06:18 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    D_Virginia,

     

    Engineering Grads are about the only ones actually in high demand.

     

    Hear your point, but deferrals are already in place.

     

    It's the other useless degrees are more the problem.

     

    http://bit.ly/sEFy7M

     

    http://bit.ly/s4CqTW/

     

    http://bit.ly/tBmQHm
    25 Oct 2011, 06:23 PM Reply Like
  • Energysystems
    , contributor
    Comments (944) | Send Message
     
    unemployment rate for college grads is 4.5%. It IS your fault if you can't get a job. It's about time someone, anyone, speaks of personal responsiblity.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:32 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > It's the other useless degrees are more the problem.

     

    No one will ever hear any complaint from me that useless degrees are a huge problem -- and I'm a the most raging liberal you'll ever meet, by some of your definitions.

     

    I have a tech degree, and since graduation I've been in high demand in the tech industry.

     

    But while we're on the subject, what I /would/ like to see is some opportunities for these liberal arts slackers (by the way I include business in that!) to be sent back to get some actual useful skills. Then they might actually be able to pay down all the money they spent on that Art History degree.

     

    Most other developed nations subsidize post-secondary education, and their unemployment is noticeably lower than ours. A correlation worth noting....
    25 Oct 2011, 06:46 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > unemployment rate for college grads is 4.5%. It IS your fault if you
    > can't get a job

     

    For 19 out of 20, at least. :)

     

    How many millions of people does that 1 out of 20 end up being, I wonder?
    25 Oct 2011, 06:49 PM Reply Like
  • Energysystems
    , contributor
    Comments (944) | Send Message
     
    sociology majors lol. I think a shift away from teaching degrees would be a huge plus(especially with all the municipal debt issues, etc). Since those that can't do, teach. Get back to what's in demand, not what is convienent/easy. People have a tough time accepting personal responsiblity these days.
    25 Oct 2011, 07:43 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    DV

     

    Business degrees are incredibly useful. I have an Econ degree and took a lot of business classes and doubled down with a history degree and a foreign language degree. But anyways I manage more technical people then you can imagine. I manage them and feed them business deals to keep them from getting fired. And the Econ and Business background is a big part of that.

     

    The technical staff are good at building things but have no idea how to keep the business out of the ditch. You should go and get a business degree because you will learn a lot.

     

    There is also a correlation between paying unemployment and the unemployment rate.

     

    Best case is everyone should get more than one degree. It is hard work but stay out of the bars and hit the books.
    25 Oct 2011, 09:16 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    I'm with you on the multiple degrees, and on the notion that business adds value.

     

    But it's a numbers game, to some extent.

     

    While I don't think it's practical to "manage" the numbers of which kinds of degrees are obtained, there are some pragmatic ratios that are noteworthy.

     

    Specifically, you can do a lot (as a corporation, or a nation) with a few business people and a lot of engineers -- but you can only do so much with a few engineers and a lot of business people.

     

    Remember the old joke about Japanese rowers -- there's some truth there:
    http://bit.ly/tZZESj/
    25 Oct 2011, 09:35 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Agreed although it takes more than a few but hopefully there are more engineers than business leaders. Unless all the people with business degrees start new businesses. That would be worthwhile as they would turn around and hire more engineers and other employees.
    25 Oct 2011, 09:56 PM Reply Like
  • Zigg
    , contributor
    Comments (55) | Send Message
     
    It's not the "useless" degree that the issue, it's the fact that the tuition is the same regardless of degree. $30K for arts or business. (and there's an artificial floor on tuition b/c of stafford loan limits). It would be more reasonable to have different tuition rates for different degrees, and schools would likely specialize in different areas instead of the monolithic, inflexible giga-universities we have now.
    25 Oct 2011, 10:02 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > Unless all the people with business degrees start new
    > businesses. That would be worthwhile as they would turn
    > around and hire more engineers and other employees.

     

    Uh...hire /what/ engineers? Where? China? Germany? Sweden?

     

    The whole problem is that the U.S. currently doesn't have enough skilled workers (or knowledge workers, call them what you will), so we need to start creating them, incentivizing people to go get educated/trained.

     

    There's a reason so many foreign nationals come to the U.S. to go to college, we KNOW how to make great, productive workers in this country, we just need to break the cultural bias against real work (and create a cultural bias against things like reality TV), and then help people scale the tuition wall.

     

    The mass MBA-ization of America is part of the problem, not part of the solution. We have thrown more than enough business, marketing, and finance at the economy over the last few decades and look where it has gotten us. Trust me, if you crank out engineers all over the place, there will still be more than enough deal-wheelers and paper-pushers itching to make money by putting them to work.

     

    You can turn an engineer into a businessman, but you can't turn a businessman into an engineer.

     

    It's time to get back to basics.
    25 Oct 2011, 10:20 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    D

     

    You are hitting on a big problem which is skilled labor. I see that everyday. People in the US don't believe engineering and the sciences are glamorous enough. There are a lot of reasons for it.

     

    I have only turned a few engineers into business people but I have seen business people run rings around engineers because most of them have technical backgrounds anyways.
    25 Oct 2011, 10:28 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > because most of them have technical backgrounds anyways.

     

    Which would make them engineers that got turned into business people. :)
    25 Oct 2011, 10:37 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3079) | Send Message
     
    Well over a decade there have been highly impacted business degree programs in many colleges in the US. I graduated in 1998, and even then there were more business degrees than there were jobs to utilize them, and at the time few graduating with engineering or science degrees. Then you look at hiring patterns during booms and business administration expands, only to lead towards the first to be let go once the boom time goes away.

     

    I saw people with highly skilled science degrees struggle to make a living, though they were able to find employment. The pay levels were not that great a decade ago, and have not really advanced much. It might also be useful to look at the percentage of foreign students attending US universities over the last decade, and take note of their degree choices. Students in the US often choose fields where there appear to be lots of openings, or where they think the pay is higher, and tend to avoid professions at lower pay levels.
    25 Oct 2011, 10:59 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3079) | Send Message
     
    This was the myth I heard when I went to college in the US in the late 1990s, that there would be no need for engineering jobs because the US would move towards all management and business services. These were deemed to be "clean" choices in that they did not involve manufacturing in the US. I never believed it then either.

     

    Software programming has remained in demand, but it's not a field that draws many students. I heard from many engineers that the pace of electrical engineering was so fast that working engineers knowledge can be easily nearly obsolete in a handful of years; the idea was that new graduates would be more useful. I'm not so sure it is that, or more likely that new graduates accept lower pay, but it is an attitude and feeling that I came across often.

     

    Semi-skilled labor is where there is more need than qualified people in many parts of the US. This is not a college degree realm in some specialties, but there can be costs with achieving the required level of knowledge.

     

    Bottom line is that getting a college degree is a gamble/bet/investment in your future. If the pay levels end up less than you expected four or five years after you started on the degree path, then it can be financially damaging. Let us not forget that many of these loans were securitized, much like mortgages, and banks hold these bundles. If students simply defaulted or went through bankruptcy, then the securities would come under default. So if the President is making a move to shore up student loans, it is once again the banks that benefit.
    25 Oct 2011, 11:10 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    No a number of them took Comp Sci classes to complete classwork and they also have great skills at analyzing companies and competetive advantage of underlying technology.

     

    Frankly engineers today don't work that hard as the tools are so high level it is more assembly than programming relative to what was done back in the 70's and 80's. You had to write everything back then with lousy compilers, etc.
    25 Oct 2011, 11:31 PM Reply Like
  • Energysystems
    , contributor
    Comments (944) | Send Message
     
    D_Virginia, I applaud you for pointing out something I mention often. The lack of skilled workers(marketable skills, however it is phrased). That is a giant contributor that is, for the most part, never even acknowledged.
    26 Oct 2011, 12:32 AM Reply Like
  • inthemoney
    , contributor
    Comments (981) | Send Message
     
    > The mass MBA-ization of America is part of the problem, not part of the solution. We have thrown more than enough business, marketing, and finance at the economy over the last few decades and look where it has gotten us. Trust me, if you crank out engineers all over the place, there will still be more than enough deal-wheelers and paper-pushers itching to make money by putting them to work.
    ----------------------...

     

    I think the roots are in the pay scale. If you are an engineer, you make 80-100K. But a paper-pusher, i.e. people manager with skills that used to be current 20-30 years ago make 150K. Why pay managers more than very killed individuals whoa ctually produce? In my career I had many managers whose impat on the bottom line of the company was actually negative due to their incompetence and waste of the productive workers time. Before you can do anything it has to be approved by management, so you spend hours and hours educating and convincing those managers why it is a right thing to do. Yet, by next month they already forgotten it all because they don't have professional depth and cannot memorize what they don't understand.
    As a result, I always look for middle-size companies with lean management structure. This is where I can proiduce the most and prove my worth as an IT professional.
    I guess, it sounds similar to what I hear about school teachers and adminsitrators dynamics.

     

    The saving grace in this whole conundrum is that in a recession the paper-pushers get laid off first since they don't produce anything. And then many cannot find a job because they don't have any skills. Intrestingly, eveyrone thinks they can be an effective managers and therefore there is oversupply of managers.
    26 Oct 2011, 10:24 AM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7620) | Send Message
     
    Whoopy dippy dooooo.

     

    Another bailout of people who took on too much debt.

     

    Perhaps some homeowners were uneducated and not smart enough to understand the mortgage papers they signed, but, the college educated can't (I hope) claim such ignorance.

     

    Can't anybody be held responsible for the loans they took and their actions anymore?

     

    25 Oct 2011, 06:07 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    > but, the college educated can't (I hope) claim such ignorance.

     

    Haven't read the details yet, but in all fairness, most of those loans were taken our BEFORE they finished college, and often before they started college.

     

    It's quite a predatory industry in some ways, the student loan business.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:10 PM Reply Like
  • Lint
    , contributor
    Comments (391) | Send Message
     
    The quote from the article is certainly a beaut:
    "And we can do it at no cost to the taxpayer"
    25 Oct 2011, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Wyo

     

    Every debtor is a voter. The kneebone is attached to the thighbone and the debt bone is attached to the vote bone.

     

    And we are an emerging Greece. Even Greece was great at one time so we don't have immunity.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:11 PM Reply Like
  • wyostocks
    , contributor
    Comments (7620) | Send Message
     
    " most of those loans were taken our BEFORE they finished college, and often before they started college"

     

    Tough s**t. You took the loan, pay the frigging thing back.

     

    I paid my loans back many years ago, do I get a frigging retroactive bail out?
    25 Oct 2011, 07:24 PM Reply Like
  • TrueConservative
    , contributor
    Comments (70) | Send Message
     
    Damn right! YOu took the loan, now YOU pay it back!!

     

    Predatory lending is a myth! If I'm a bank, and I willingly offer tens of thousands of dollars to a pot smoking philosophy major with a 0.9 GPA who attends a college no one has ever heard of, then I obviously bear NO RESPONSIBILITY for what stupid people like financial advisers would call a "bad investment" -- bah, like that's even a real thing!

     

    Responsibility is for suckers, debtors are suckers, so they're the only ones responsible for anything. Don't you know anything!!!1!!

     

    Everyone knows LENDERS can't do anything wrong, never have any risk, and always get paid back!!

     

    Besides, I borrowed a thousand dollars during a period of unprecedented economic growth and opportunity, and I paid it ALL back with all the money I made for not doing much of anything, so these stupid kids with their piddly six-figure debts and their insignificant little longest-period-of-high... need to just STOP WHINING!!!!11!

     

    YEAH!! Rick Parry 2012!

     

    God bless the Virtuoso!
    25 Oct 2011, 08:20 PM Reply Like
  • 1980XLS
    , contributor
    Comments (3314) | Send Message
     
    Bailouts for Everybody, LOL
    25 Oct 2011, 06:14 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Actually, it's still for the banks. At least for 20 years, after which the cost to collect will probably have exceeded the value to recoup anyway.

     

    Housing plans, credit card plans, car loan plans -- it's all about reducing default rates to reduce eventual losses for the banks, or in the case of student loans that can't be defaulted on, reducing the need for creative enforcement.

     

    The primary beneficiaries are still the banks.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:26 PM Reply Like
  • Herr Hansa
    , contributor
    Comments (3079) | Send Message
     
    Exactly right. Many of the recent student loans were bundled and sold as securities. It would not surprise me if Sallie Mae (SLM) was in trouble, or headed towards trouble.
    25 Oct 2011, 11:17 PM Reply Like
  • BrownSwiss
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    So the past 2 years I've spent sending an extra $200/month on top of my minimum in hopes of getting out of this $38k hole sooner, I should have just spent paying the bare minimum because hey, in 20 years, Mr. Gov't will just say bye-bye.

     

    There are already a ton of ways struggling grads can defer their loans, no need to add more 'rules' on top of that.

     

    Maybe students need to think about where they are going to school, go to less expensive schools, get more worthwhile degrees and work their way through school

     

    Dumb, dumb, dumb Obama, you're doing a good job of losing a voter from 2008 who happens to be a recent college grad and started a job in 2009 immediately after graduation from a state college.
    25 Oct 2011, 06:47 PM Reply Like
  • D_Virginia
    , contributor
    Comments (2280) | Send Message
     
    Depending on your income, your payments may not have been reduced, and your debt may have been paid off in 20 years anyway.

     

    Many folks' situations are different from yours. Some people really are in tough spots through little fault of their own (and some dug their own holes and should have known better).

     

    Don't jump to conclusions, wait to see the real effects of any plan.

     

    DO get all the facts, and by all means, hold politicians accountable based on those facts.

     

    Regardless, kudos to you for getting an employable degree at an affordable college and paying down your debt early. I wish most of the kids I know had even half that much financial sense. Keep it up!
    25 Oct 2011, 07:02 PM Reply Like
  • joro_ianev
    , contributor
    Comments (378) | Send Message
     
    And there will be a 100,000 new federal jobs created to support this program. The actual forgiveness will save $1 billion, the administrative cost will be $10. The taxpayer is on hook for the $11. But worry not, it is all on the federal credit card. We can't default - unlike Greece, we can print our money ... and have, repeatedly, over the last 2 years.

     

    Of course, when we print all the money we need we will bankrupt our economy, but our politicians are not concerned. Obama will be long gone, his name will be on libraries and places he built with taxpayer dollars and his great vision of a poor, equally-miserable society would have been achieved.
    26 Oct 2011, 12:14 AM Reply Like
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3141) | Send Message
     
    I can't even begin to express my complete and utter disgust with the total lack of personal responsibility that exists today.

     

    If I were 22 I'd borrow 1MM for college somehow (from what I've read a few have managed 500K) start a business, pay myself about 10K a year for the next twenty years. Pay 1K per year on the orignal debt and in 20 years I should have a business worth about 5-10MM. All financed by the taxpayers. yeah, I know you can't exactly do this but what the heck.

     

    People make bad choices every day - its not the government's job to run around after them and clean up their messes. Grow up.
    26 Oct 2011, 12:42 AM Reply Like
  • DarksideInvestor
    , contributor
    Comments (3) | Send Message
     
    Exactly no one is held accountable for their decisions. But we backed on all the banks when they should have failed, we backed automakers when they should of failed but we want to start the future of the US in huge amounts of debt because not all of us have rich parents to pay for our school. So we must take out huge loans to pay for them. Also the huge banks lobbied lawmakers to make student loan debt not admissible by bankruptcy which is crap. The US needs to start investing in the education of Americans because we are the future. I started playing the stock market because I am in so much debt with no way out because I decided not to go to school. And sorry I don't have rich mommy and daddy to pay for it.
    26 Oct 2011, 04:42 AM Reply Like
  • TomasViewPoint
    , contributor
    Comments (4845) | Send Message
     
    Dark:

     

    Grow up. I did not have rich parent by any stretch and my in-laws never made over $20K a year. Both my wife and I took on debt, went to school and worked at the same time and then got out of school and paid off our debt.

     

    Bankruptcy laws don't apply to student debt because the banks would not make these loans on the credit worthiness of students alone and Sallie Mae wanted government backing and the government did not want to make it easy for students to go bankrupt and have to eat these loans. You also cannot relieve federal tax obligations through BR either.

     

    This debt is really an investment that should have a return over the rest of the life of the student so charging it off is fraud. We are a nation of deadbeats. No wonder our people cannot compete.
    26 Oct 2011, 09:37 AM Reply Like
  • bonehead69
    , contributor
    Comments (212) | Send Message
     
    My oh my. I heard the average graduate is around $26k in debt from college. If you can't pay that off over 20 years, you are a lost and useless soul. Shit, how are they ever going to buy a car, home, invest in a business? What difference will a couple percentage points make on a 20yr loan they can't seem to muster up the energy to save and pay for? The price of their little cell phones and the "everything-plan" is about $1,500 a year. That would go a long way towards their loan. What the hell did they learn in college?

     

    This is just a bunch of crap. I paid for two kids to attend college for about 2 times that each and I saved most of the money while I was raising them, clothing them, etc. My dughter is in Med school and I'm helping her with that also. My wife and I aren't even close to wealthy, but we work hard. America is becoming socialist, pandered and whiney!!!
    26 Oct 2011, 04:53 AM Reply Like
  • davidingeorgia
    , contributor
    Comments (2713) | Send Message
     
    Otherwise known as "buying votes".
    26 Oct 2011, 06:32 AM Reply Like
  • Cincinnatus
    , contributor
    Comments (3341) | Send Message
     
    I think you'll find the problem here. This is Obama's blatant buying of the votes of idiots (and their families) that spent absurd amounts on garbage degrees. It's a key voting bloc for him. Most of these are probably from white middle and upper-middle class families that typically would not be receiving such taxpayer paid welfare.

     

    http://yhoo.it/sosfPC

     

    Kelli Space, 23, graduated from Northeastern University in 2009 with a bachelor's in sociology — and a whopping $200,000 in student loan debt. Space, who lives with her parents and works full-time, put up a Web site called TwoHundredThou.com soliciting donations to help meet her debt obligation, which is $891 a month. That number jumps to $1,600 next November.
    26 Oct 2011, 12:02 PM Reply Like
  • bonehead69
    , contributor
    Comments (212) | Send Message
     
    Who in their right mind would pay $200k for a degree in sociology? My daughter's in Med school and it wasn't that much. She will be a neonatologist (advanced pediatric surgeon) in 2 years making around $350k to start. Big difference between a surgeon and a professor of the socialist agenda!
    26 Oct 2011, 12:36 PM Reply Like
  • davidbdc
    , contributor
    Comments (3141) | Send Message
     
    200K will buy you a nice loft apartment, pay the bills for three girlfriends, and a supply of booze for at least one "blow out" party a week.

     

    I'm ok with all of the above...... but do it on your own dime!!!!

     

    Hopefully he's learned an important lesson...... women are very expensive! :)
    26 Oct 2011, 03:32 PM Reply Like
  • bonehead69
    , contributor
    Comments (212) | Send Message
     
    Definition of DISTRACTION
    1: the act of distracting or the state of being distracted; especially : mental confusion <driven to distraction>
    2: something that distracts; especially : amusement
    — dis·trac·tive \-ˈstrak-tiv\ adjective
    Examples of DISTRACTION:
    a). It was hard to work with so many distractions.

     

    b). One of them created a distraction while the other grabbed the money.

     

    c). A weekend at the beach was a good distraction from her troubles.
    d). Their endless chatter drove her to distraction.
    Synonyms: bafflement, bamboozlement, befuddlement, bemusement, bewilderedness, bewilderment, confusedness, discombobulation, confusion, fog, head-scratching, maze [chiefly dialect], muddle, mystification, perplexity, puzzlement, tangle, whirl
    26 Oct 2011, 09:20 PM Reply Like
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