I can see this spread to the other tax-unfriendly metropolis areas-with easy access to information and chic merchandise from any place where internet services are available, living in these highly taxed/expensive urban areas is getting less and less appealing.
Wah, wah..we want the rich to pay more and now that our plan isn't working, we're going to cry. Ask and you shall recieve. Less jobs, less innovation, more outsourcing. Having the pride of being American-made means squat when you're stealing someone's money, Mr. Obama.
Maryland is just following the same policy that Obama is championing. It won't work in Maryland and it won't work across the US.
On May 28 12:54 PM Rayn wrote: > Is Obama the governor of Maryland or something cause it seems like > he keeps raising their state income taxes according to previous comments
Michigan, the unions, and the politicians keep whining about how that state has lost all of its' jobs to overseas companies.
In fact, over 2/3 of the jobs that Michigan has lost since 1999 have been to other states with lower taxes. You would think that after a few years they would catch on.
You really think all these millionaires are going to uproot their families and corporate jobs and move half around the world? Really?
On May 28 12:56 PM Neil459 wrote:
> Maryland is just following the same policy that Obama is championing. > It won't work in Maryland and it won't work across the US. > > On May 28 12:54 PM Rayn wrote:
The "cancerous traitors" are the ones raising taxes. Its never worked and won't work at this time.
On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote: > Raise Federally, Lower Locally. If people want to move away from > the United States, let the cancerous traitors do so.
Nope, but the new companies are going to be started in other countries. The cost effective products will come from other countries. The innovation will come from other countries. Money already made is made, but the risks to make new money will not be undertaken if the taxes are too high.
On May 28 01:12 PM AnOilMan wrote: > You really think all these millionaires are going to uproot their > families and corporate jobs and move half around the world? Really? >
Uh, most people climbing the corporate ladder would kill for a great ex-pat posting. Not only are there way more growth opportunities than amongst you whiny losers, the housing/car/etc. perks are great and with your savings and salary, you can live like a king. The schools are probably better, too, since they teach actual subject matter, not multidiversiculturalism.
Or, you can get called a greedy b*stard by the likes of losers like you.
Gee, hard choice.
On May 28 01:12 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> You really think all these millionaires are going to uproot their > families and corporate jobs and move half around the world? Really? >
I was an expat. Man oh man did it suck. People who think taxes are high in the US should try living in Europe for a while.
On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
> Uh, most people climbing the corporate ladder would kill for a great > ex-pat posting. Not only are there way more growth opportunities > than amongst you whiny losers, the housing/car/etc. perks are great > and with your savings and salary, you can live like a king. The schools > are probably better, too, since they teach actual subject matter, > not multidiversiculturalism. > > Or, you can get called a greedy b*stard by the likes of losers like > you. > > Gee, hard choice.
Yes, certainly, it's more likely that a third of the very wealthy uprooted their families over a 0.75% tax increase than that the number of millionaires decreased during the worst recession and bear market in memory.
Do the Europeans single the rich out in their tax system?
On May 28 01:20 PM bricki wrote:
> I was an expat. Man oh man did it suck. People who think taxes are > high in the US should try living in Europe for a while. > > On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
Neil, raising taxes isn't traitorous based on how we enable representatives to raise taxes. If you don't like representative democracy, then either win elections (and assuming you're either a Republican or Kooky Libertarian of the Galt's Gulch breed, that won't be easy) or opt out by moving away. Grumbling about the majority of people in your state, your country giving strong implicit consent and weak implicit consent to higher taxes doesn't enable your ideals to become any more a reality.
While raising taxes may result in loss revenues because of diaspora, if you make the choice between leaving the country and paying an extra 6.25% nationally, people are going to stay put.
Michigan went wrong by trying to hold on to it's past instead of providing the foundation for a future.
...numbers lie and, in this case, some right wing interests are jumping to conclusions in their own interests...2008 was a miserable year for investments and bonuses...those should bear more scrutiny for their contribution to the loss of "millionaires" before blaming it on taxes...
First off, are you factoring the reduced expenses from the perks your company provided you, weighed against increased taxes? If they didn't provide you any, maybe your company just sucks. Anyone stupid enough to put themselves in a worse situation by being asked to do an ex-pat stint is probably not going to make it to the top of the corporate hierarchy any time in this life. Maybe your company was trying to tell you something?
Second, the majority of the ex-pat opportunities will be in Asia for a long time to come.
Democrats who play the "cancerous traitor" card are a bunch of hypocrites. For years, the Left has said that patriotism is a bunch of nonsensical hooey, based on symbolic nonsense like the flag and the Constitution. Now that they've got a chance to milk the American cow for their own benefit, all of a sudden patriotism is something real. Disgusting, yet par for the course.
On May 28 01:20 PM bricki wrote:
> I was an expat. Man oh man did it suck. People who think taxes are > high in the US should try living in Europe for a while. > > On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
Hmmm, I'm an ivy grad in an upper tax bracket. Not sure what you inferred. I'm climbing the corporate ladder, one of those you mentioned, and will probably be taking a posting abroad for at least a couple years, but to think we are going to see some sort of mass exodus to third world tax havens by the American elite is just silly. These people don't want to leave Greenwich, Arlington, San Fran, etc. Do you have some arguments with steps of logic and rationale and you want to put forth?
On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
> Uh, most people climbing the corporate ladder would kill for a great > ex-pat posting. Not only are there way more growth opportunities > than amongst you whiny losers, the housing/car/etc. perks are great > and with your savings and salary, you can live like a king. The schools > are probably better, too, since they teach actual subject matter, > not multidiversiculturalism. > > Or, you can get called a greedy b*stard by the likes of losers like > you. > > Gee, hard choice.
Yep, the socialists have counted on incrementalism not causing pain for many years. At some level enough is enough. Right now its not the 0.75%, its the fact that if you tax 100% of the rich it will not be enough money to cover the government spending coupled with the fact that there is no one in power that can limit the spending or the taxing. That means it will be a lot worse before it gets better. When the flood waters come, there is nothing you can do except move out of the way.
On May 28 01:20 PM gembree wrote: > Yes, certainly, it's more likely that a third of the very wealthy > uprooted their families over a 0.75% tax increase than that the number > of millionaires decreased during the worst recession and bear market > in memory.
I'm a libertarian and the cancerous traitor bit was just to ruffle feathers like yours. While I agree that the least amount of government is the best amount, I find it completely ridiculous that so many people that believe that complain when democracy works against their ideals.
Also, move to Asia? If you don't like civil liberties I suppose you could do that (Singapore, Honk Kong), but then again, most anti-tax-to-the-point-... don't care about those when they vote.
On May 28 01:27 PM user344210 wrote:
> First off, are you factoring the reduced expenses from the perks > your company provided you, weighed against increased taxes? If they > didn't provide you any, maybe your company just sucks. Anyone stupid > enough to put themselves in a worse situation by being asked to do > an ex-pat stint is probably not going to make it to the top of the > corporate hierarchy any time in this life. Maybe your company was > trying to tell you something? > > Second, the majority of the ex-pat opportunities will be in Asia > for a long time to come. > > Democrats who play the "cancerous traitor" card are a bunch of hypocrites. > For years, the Left has said that patriotism is a bunch of nonsensical > hooey, based on symbolic nonsense like the flag and the Constitution. > Now that they've got a chance to milk the American cow for their > own benefit, all of a sudden patriotism is something real. Disgusting, > yet par for the course.
Point well made. But lying about what you are doing, releasing classified info for political gain, ignoring the rule of law, purposefully passing laws/rules in violation of the constitution, and the other shenanigans going on in Congress and the Administration now are traitorous regardless of who was elected. Each elected politician pledged to uphold the Constitution. Failure to do this is treason. Failure to support our Capitalistic heritage is if not traitorous, is at least un-American.
On May 28 01:26 PM E Thomas St. wrote: > Neil, raising taxes isn't traitorous based on how we enable representatives > to raise taxes. If you don't like representative democracy, then
That's the hilarious part of the argument that people will just move away. Neither the person making the argument nor the person theorized in the argument are actually going to move away en masse but the mentality of both people would really really really like to if they could. They aren't as "free" or "independent" as they'd like to believe and I'd argue hippies in a VW bus have more freedom and independence than these "TAXES ARE DRIVING AWAY MILLIONAIRES AND I WILL MOVE TOO!" types.
Galt's Gulch is a paradise for these types.
On May 28 01:33 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> Hmmm, I'm an ivy grad in an upper tax bracket. Not sure what you > inferred. I'm climbing the corporate ladder, one of those you mentioned, > and will probably be taking a posting abroad for at least a couple > years, but to think we are going to see some sort of mass exodus > to third world tax havens by the American elite is just silly. These > people don't want to leave Greenwich, Arlington, San Fran, etc. Do > you have some arguments with steps of logic and rationale and you > want to put forth?
I agree with how awfully team Obama is doing all these things. It pisses me off to no end how Timmah and crew do all these market manipulations that either exacerbate the problems down the road or do nothing of value. It's pretty distressing when your options are between a bunch of lying sacks of shit who say no to civil liberties and a bunch of lying sacks of shit who say no to economic liberties.
Now, one of the interesting parts is that while you claim it may be Un-American, I'd argue that this isn't surprising at all given that the premise of how capitalism would fall to a soft socialism was outlined by Schumpeter. This transcends what and what isn't American in my mind.
On May 28 01:41 PM Neil459 wrote:
> Point well made. But lying about what you are doing, releasing classified > info for political gain, ignoring the rule of law, purposefully passing > laws/rules in violation of the constitution, and the other shenanigans > going on in Congress and the Administration now are traitorous regardless > of who was elected. Each elected politician pledged to uphold the > Constitution. Failure to do this is treason. Failure to support > our Capitalistic heritage is if not traitorous, is at least un-American. > > > On May 28 01:26 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
I got a question. Is Capitalism mentioned in the Constitution?
I'm serious..............
On May 28 01:41 PM Neil459 wrote:
> Point well made. But lying about what you are doing, releasing classified > info for political gain, ignoring the rule of law, purposefully passing > laws/rules in violation of the constitution, and the other shenanigans > going on in Congress and the Administration now are traitorous regardless > of who was elected. Each elected politician pledged to uphold the > Constitution. Failure to do this is treason. Failure to support our > Capitalistic heritage is if not traitorous, is at least un-American. > > > On May 28 01:26 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
one problem will be-there will be a huge federal government-check out the social security office and the local internal revenue service office-that is typical to what locals will get from Washington. good luck :-)
On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Raise Federally, Lower Locally. If people want to move away from > the United States, let the cancerous traitors do so.
Schumpeter, ". . . socialism will ensure that the production of goods and services is directed towards meeting the authentic needs of people." Has never happened. Socialism will cause capitalism to fail because of ignorance. People that are too comfortable to bother to understand what is really happening. They are more interested in getting the latest tune for free on their iPod. Not understanding that under socialism there are no iPods. An iPod is not an "authentic need of people".
On May 28 01:48 PM E Thomas St. wrote: > Now, one of the interesting parts is that while you claim it may > be Un-American, I'd argue that this isn't surprising at all given > that the premise of how capitalism would fall to a soft socialism > was outlined by Schumpeter. This transcends what and what isn't American > in my mind. > > On May 28 01:41 PM Neil459 wrote:
That pretty well sums it up. However, one way to change the playing field is to be outraged and intolerant at the lying and shenanigans no matter what party is involved. Republican's do this at least some of the time, Democrats never do it.
On May 28 01:48 PM E Thomas St. wrote: It's pretty distressing when your options are between a bunch > of lying sacks of shit who say no to civil liberties and a bunch > of lying sacks of shit who say no to economic liberties.
Too true. The problem is that competition between states is a race to the bottom in providing generous benefits to companies to set up shop there. I'm not a fan of the Federal government for most things but the states aren't doing what's best for the constituents in the long term and are only focusing on jobs and outlays.
On the other hand looking at the states with the lowest tax rates across the board, I'd sooner live poorer than live in those places. The comprises one makes aren't always about money.
On May 28 01:56 PM Just Curious 2 wrote:
> one problem will be-there will be a huge federal government-check > out the social security office and the local internal revenue service > office-that is typical to what locals will get from Washington. > good luck :-) > > On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
I'm not saying a "mass exodus", but let's just say that half of of Maryland's problem was exodus-related. That's a significant problem.
Also, don't forget that at least part of the reason those people didn't want to leave Greenwich et al. was that there was opportunity there. Look at Silicon Valley and some of the struggles it is having, after years of people saying SV was never going to lose its luster.
People who's main focus in life is making money are very adept at cost-benefit analysis, even when applied to place of residence.
On May 28 01:33 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> Hmmm, I'm an ivy grad in an upper tax bracket. Not sure what you > inferred. I'm climbing the corporate ladder, one of those you mentioned, > and will probably be taking a posting abroad for at least a couple > years, but to think we are going to see some sort of mass exodus > to third world tax havens by the American elite is just silly. These > people don't want to leave Greenwich, Arlington, San Fran, etc. Do > you have some arguments with steps of logic and rationale and you > want to put forth?
That's because all governments are being run by politicians and politicians do not hold long term views-their terms at their offices are too short for long-term view. They are all too busy about having enough votes and often the most number of votes do not represent the most intelligent decisions.
I do agree that state with the lowest tax rates may not be the best place for living (thinking about medical care-social programs-and culture centers), and those services are well worth the tax $ paid.
On May 28 02:15 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Too true. The problem is that competition between states is a race > to the bottom in providing generous benefits to companies to set > up shop there. I'm not a fan of the Federal government for most things > but the states aren't doing what's best for the constituents in the > long term and are only focusing on jobs and outlays. > > On the other hand looking at the states with the lowest tax rates > across the board, I'd sooner live poorer than live in those places. > The comprises one makes aren't always about money.
I'd love to see the resulting economy once you got rid of the "greedy". Probably look a lot like Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge.
I'd love to know exactly what skills you think you bring to the global economy, aside from complaining about people who are adept enough to get paid in it.
On May 28 01:50 PM Niner wrote:
> you can kiss my ass...............it's greedy bastards like you we > need to get rid of!
Considering that Maryland is not only the wealthiest state in the US, but also has the best public education system, has one of the highest percentage of people with college and graduate degrees, and is 5th in per capita GDP it looks like taxes aren't doing too much to ruin the state.
I came across this article on the wsj website, and found another that talked Britains 50% decrease in millionaires this year due to the recession. Somehow that must be the fault of liberal Democrats as well. This reporter should be fired for making such a specious claim.
This is the link to the WSJ article that puts the 2008 percentage loss of US millionaires at 30%. Assuming Maryland was hit at exactly that average, that leaves 3% unaccounted for. Some argument.
This news story has 41 comments:
On May 28 12:53 PM 2houndz wrote:
> Maybe they just wanted to get the heck out of Baltimore.
On May 28 12:54 PM Rayn wrote:
> Is Obama the governor of Maryland or something cause it seems like
> he keeps raising their state income taxes according to previous comments
In fact, over 2/3 of the jobs that Michigan has lost since 1999 have been to other states with lower taxes. You would think that after a few years they would catch on.
On May 28 12:56 PM Neil459 wrote:
> Maryland is just following the same policy that Obama is championing.
> It won't work in Maryland and it won't work across the US.
>
> On May 28 12:54 PM Rayn wrote:
On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Raise Federally, Lower Locally. If people want to move away from
> the United States, let the cancerous traitors do so.
On May 28 01:12 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> You really think all these millionaires are going to uproot their
> families and corporate jobs and move half around the world? Really?
>
Or, you can get called a greedy b*stard by the likes of losers like you.
Gee, hard choice.
On May 28 01:12 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> You really think all these millionaires are going to uproot their
> families and corporate jobs and move half around the world? Really?
>
On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
> Uh, most people climbing the corporate ladder would kill for a great
> ex-pat posting. Not only are there way more growth opportunities
> than amongst you whiny losers, the housing/car/etc. perks are great
> and with your savings and salary, you can live like a king. The schools
> are probably better, too, since they teach actual subject matter,
> not multidiversiculturalism.
>
> Or, you can get called a greedy b*stard by the likes of losers like
> you.
>
> Gee, hard choice.
On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Raise Federally, Lower Locally. If people want to move away from
> the United States, let the cancerous traitors do so.
On May 28 01:20 PM bricki wrote:
> I was an expat. Man oh man did it suck. People who think taxes are
> high in the US should try living in Europe for a while.
>
> On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
While raising taxes may result in loss revenues because of diaspora, if you make the choice between leaving the country and paying an extra 6.25% nationally, people are going to stay put.
Michigan went wrong by trying to hold on to it's past instead of providing the foundation for a future.
Second, the majority of the ex-pat opportunities will be in Asia for a long time to come.
Democrats who play the "cancerous traitor" card are a bunch of hypocrites. For years, the Left has said that patriotism is a bunch of nonsensical hooey, based on symbolic nonsense like the flag and the Constitution. Now that they've got a chance to milk the American cow for their own benefit, all of a sudden patriotism is something real. Disgusting, yet par for the course.
On May 28 01:20 PM bricki wrote:
> I was an expat. Man oh man did it suck. People who think taxes are
> high in the US should try living in Europe for a while.
>
> On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
On May 28 01:16 PM user344210 wrote:
> Uh, most people climbing the corporate ladder would kill for a great
> ex-pat posting. Not only are there way more growth opportunities
> than amongst you whiny losers, the housing/car/etc. perks are great
> and with your savings and salary, you can live like a king. The schools
> are probably better, too, since they teach actual subject matter,
> not multidiversiculturalism.
>
> Or, you can get called a greedy b*stard by the likes of losers like
> you.
>
> Gee, hard choice.
On May 28 01:20 PM gembree wrote:
> Yes, certainly, it's more likely that a third of the very wealthy
> uprooted their families over a 0.75% tax increase than that the number
> of millionaires decreased during the worst recession and bear market
> in memory.
Also, move to Asia? If you don't like civil liberties I suppose you could do that (Singapore, Honk Kong), but then again, most anti-tax-to-the-point-... don't care about those when they vote.
On May 28 01:27 PM user344210 wrote:
> First off, are you factoring the reduced expenses from the perks
> your company provided you, weighed against increased taxes? If they
> didn't provide you any, maybe your company just sucks. Anyone stupid
> enough to put themselves in a worse situation by being asked to do
> an ex-pat stint is probably not going to make it to the top of the
> corporate hierarchy any time in this life. Maybe your company was
> trying to tell you something?
>
> Second, the majority of the ex-pat opportunities will be in Asia
> for a long time to come.
>
> Democrats who play the "cancerous traitor" card are a bunch of hypocrites.
> For years, the Left has said that patriotism is a bunch of nonsensical
> hooey, based on symbolic nonsense like the flag and the Constitution.
> Now that they've got a chance to milk the American cow for their
> own benefit, all of a sudden patriotism is something real. Disgusting,
> yet par for the course.
On May 28 01:26 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Neil, raising taxes isn't traitorous based on how we enable representatives
> to raise taxes. If you don't like representative democracy, then
Galt's Gulch is a paradise for these types.
On May 28 01:33 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> Hmmm, I'm an ivy grad in an upper tax bracket. Not sure what you
> inferred. I'm climbing the corporate ladder, one of those you mentioned,
> and will probably be taking a posting abroad for at least a couple
> years, but to think we are going to see some sort of mass exodus
> to third world tax havens by the American elite is just silly. These
> people don't want to leave Greenwich, Arlington, San Fran, etc. Do
> you have some arguments with steps of logic and rationale and you
> want to put forth?
Now, one of the interesting parts is that while you claim it may be Un-American, I'd argue that this isn't surprising at all given that the premise of how capitalism would fall to a soft socialism was outlined by Schumpeter. This transcends what and what isn't American in my mind.
On May 28 01:41 PM Neil459 wrote:
> Point well made. But lying about what you are doing, releasing classified
> info for political gain, ignoring the rule of law, purposefully passing
> laws/rules in violation of the constitution, and the other shenanigans
> going on in Congress and the Administration now are traitorous regardless
> of who was elected. Each elected politician pledged to uphold the
> Constitution. Failure to do this is treason. Failure to support
> our Capitalistic heritage is if not traitorous, is at least un-American.
>
>
> On May 28 01:26 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
I'm serious..............
On May 28 01:41 PM Neil459 wrote:
> Point well made. But lying about what you are doing, releasing classified
> info for political gain, ignoring the rule of law, purposefully passing
> laws/rules in violation of the constitution, and the other shenanigans
> going on in Congress and the Administration now are traitorous regardless
> of who was elected. Each elected politician pledged to uphold the
> Constitution. Failure to do this is treason. Failure to support our
> Capitalistic heritage is if not traitorous, is at least un-American.
>
>
> On May 28 01:26 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Raise Federally, Lower Locally. If people want to move away from
> the United States, let the cancerous traitors do so.
On May 28 01:48 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Now, one of the interesting parts is that while you claim it may
> be Un-American, I'd argue that this isn't surprising at all given
> that the premise of how capitalism would fall to a soft socialism
> was outlined by Schumpeter. This transcends what and what isn't American
> in my mind.
>
> On May 28 01:41 PM Neil459 wrote:
On May 28 01:53 PM Niner wrote:
> I got a question. Is Capitalism mentioned in the Constitution?
> I'm serious..............
On May 28 01:48 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
It's pretty distressing when your options are between a bunch
> of lying sacks of shit who say no to civil liberties and a bunch
> of lying sacks of shit who say no to economic liberties.
On the other hand looking at the states with the lowest tax rates across the board, I'd sooner live poorer than live in those places. The comprises one makes aren't always about money.
On May 28 01:56 PM Just Curious 2 wrote:
> one problem will be-there will be a huge federal government-check
> out the social security office and the local internal revenue service
> office-that is typical to what locals will get from Washington.
> good luck :-)
>
> On May 28 01:00 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
Also, don't forget that at least part of the reason those people didn't want to leave Greenwich et al. was that there was opportunity there. Look at Silicon Valley and some of the struggles it is having, after years of people saying SV was never going to lose its luster.
People who's main focus in life is making money are very adept at cost-benefit analysis, even when applied to place of residence.
On May 28 01:33 PM AnOilMan wrote:
> Hmmm, I'm an ivy grad in an upper tax bracket. Not sure what you
> inferred. I'm climbing the corporate ladder, one of those you mentioned,
> and will probably be taking a posting abroad for at least a couple
> years, but to think we are going to see some sort of mass exodus
> to third world tax havens by the American elite is just silly. These
> people don't want to leave Greenwich, Arlington, San Fran, etc. Do
> you have some arguments with steps of logic and rationale and you
> want to put forth?
I do agree that state with the lowest tax rates may not be the best place for living (thinking about medical care-social programs-and culture centers), and those services are well worth the tax $ paid.
On May 28 02:15 PM E Thomas St. wrote:
> Too true. The problem is that competition between states is a race
> to the bottom in providing generous benefits to companies to set
> up shop there. I'm not a fan of the Federal government for most things
> but the states aren't doing what's best for the constituents in the
> long term and are only focusing on jobs and outlays.
>
> On the other hand looking at the states with the lowest tax rates
> across the board, I'd sooner live poorer than live in those places.
> The comprises one makes aren't always about money.
I'd love to know exactly what skills you think you bring to the global economy, aside from complaining about people who are adept enough to get paid in it.
On May 28 01:50 PM Niner wrote:
> you can kiss my ass...............it's greedy bastards like you we
> need to get rid of!
I came across this article on the wsj website, and found another that talked Britains 50% decrease in millionaires this year due to the recession. Somehow that must be the fault of liberal Democrats as well. This reporter should be fired for making such a specious claim.
blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2.../