NetSuite Inc. (N)

All Comments on N

  • commenter
    Eric B.
    Jan 18 12:13 PM
    Moving Beyond the Hype, SaaS Stocks Soften [view article]
    Why was Salary.com removed from the list? Reply
  • commenter
    Eric B.
    Jan 18 12:12 PM
    Moving Beyond the Hype, SaaS Stocks Soften [view article]
    Why was Salary.com taken from the list? Reply
  • commenter
    Frank Li
    Jan 17 03:27 PM
    Moving Beyond the Hype, SaaS Stocks Soften [view article]
    Definitely not SuccessFactors:

    "SuccessFactors is perhaps somewhat early in going public, and thus, this period prior to profitability will be harder to withstand under public market scrutiny."

    www.seekingalpha.com/a...
     Reply
  • commenter
    Lisa
    Jan 17 03:24 PM
    Moving Beyond the Hype, SaaS Stocks Soften [view article]
    "the companies that offer applications that provide business value and have a sustainable business model (can make a profit) will rise to the top."

    Which, in your view, are they (from the ones in the list)?     Reply
  • commenter
    Long-Short
    Guy
    Jan 17 03:16 PM
    Moving Beyond the Hype, SaaS Stocks Soften [view article]
    Very useful overview -- thank you. Reply
  • commenter
    Tom
    Greenberg
    Jan 15 06:19 PM
    Recession Proof Software? Try SaaS, Managed Services and Open Source [view article]
    The growth potential for on-demand CRM is unbelievably high. Only 10% of total CRM spending is on on-demand CRM. Let's also remember that maybe less than 10% of the millions of small businesses around the world use software-as-a-service CRM!

    Companies offering hosted CRM solutions such as Salesforce.com, Netsuite, RightNow and Salesboom.com will grow tremendously in 2008     Reply
  • commenter
    Dennis
    Byron
    (Research
    2.0)
    Jan 15 01:19 PM
    My Website
    NetSuite: Not as Well Positioned as Larger Players [view article]
    Halo30K -

    Thanks again for time you put into your comments.

    Most important, here's hoping you didn't buy "N" at the top on the day you wrote the first post :) As for the historical points in your comment, I think you are violently agreeing with me?

    1. You say SAP was not involved in BPEL but you link to a page that correctly tells about SAP's involvement? But, anyways, the real point is that SaaS has nothing to do with the architectural and technical underpinnings like BPEL. SaaS is just how you sell it.

    2. Based on my experience I can compare SAP in 1980-1992 with D&B, MSA, M&D, etc. Specifically SAP did close to $300 million in sales in 1992, and clearly played in the same league with the guys you mention. The real point is, as you say, SAP was a "mainframe ERP" company and not a newcomer to the market when the C/S era started.

    I think your overall thesis is that a new crop of application suppliers emerges in each architectural generation. That is true historically.

    You also note that the same is happening in what you call the SaaS era, what I would call the SOA era. That is also true although not to the extent we saw at the beginning of the C/S era or during the dot-com boom (which is where Netsuite comes from by the way).

    And finally you believe that this new crop will replace the old because of architectural decisions (first comment) that the new crop of suppliers has made or new terms and conditions decisions (second comment) that the incumbents fail to embrace. That is not true historically.

    SAP, Oracle (and Microsoft) might fail to make the move to the next historical phase of the ERP market but that is not predetermined by past architectural decisions or by the introduction of new terms and conditions. Each has already come through multiple architectural phases, and multiple business models, to lead the ERP market.

    Thanks again     Reply
  • commenter
    Halo30k
    Jan 15 10:57 AM
    NetSuite: Not as Well Positioned as Larger Players [view article]
    Dennis,

    My .03

    First a quick issue with your comment on BPEL

    check out

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    SAP was not involved at all they had a SAP custom workflow (another issue another day)

    SAP was a mainframe ERP company focused on Germany and German centric Euro mid sized firms with less then 2000 customers in late 80's . Its hard to compare them back in 1980-92 with market leadership of MSA (Management Science America), M & D (McCormack & Dodge), Walker, D & B, etc..I agree they made the "jump" to Client server ERP that was their push to sell in the US on on the back of the "BPR" Management consulting hype of the early 1990's remember Tom Peters/ Hammer etc.. I count them as a full ERP for Fortune 1000 / invented Global 5000. I look at SAP as the salesforce.com of its era. JDE has taken a 20 year path to being client server and until PeopleSoft and then Oracle has bought them it might of taken another 10 years to get the client server done. The real issue is the way the World product is designed around the old DB2/400 kernel. It has taken the development team 10 years to fully port it to SQL Server and now Oracle in the last few years. The tech stack is poor buy late 90's standards much less late 2000's. They also have never broken out of the AS/400 mindset of sales. Firms that use 400's/ iSeries now there are over 750k 400's / iSeries servers out in the world. JDE has about 4000 -customers (10k+ servers) of the 750k installed base. To say they made the jump is a not quite correct. Most (75+%) of the Enterprise (client server version of JDE) are to old world customers. And PeopleSoft is the final one I see their attempt at being a real internet ERP is going to be the most interesting but in the end is Oracle going to allow its #2 (in terms of how Oracle Mgmt feels) ERP (Oracle EBS is their baby) beat its #1? I cannot see how these firms can take the leap (SAP has 60k customers with 500k+ modules and Oracle has 45k customers with 250k+ modules) to internet ERP on demand. I see four major reasons. The capital costs alone $10'sb + ( billions in infrastructure for data centers, the billions in redevelopment, billions in services & support, billions in marketing/sales/partne... VAR/SI -ecosystems) over 10 years + etc.. the second reason is the lack of management model/ talent/ governance, the third reason is the sales/licensing how do you convert and monetize the customer base the last reason is the simple one will customers wait ( which is my thesis for why the prior wave failures occur for leaders) customer don't want to wait 3-5-10 yrs for you to convert to something they can buy now and work for 3-5+ years to fix.

    I also see a economic cycle connection (these massive transformations are linked to post slowdown automation in large companies that cut/fire/trim staff and have to rescale as their operations grow out slowdowns) look at 1982-90 wave 1 ERP, 1993-2001 wave 2 ERP, I would say also that wave 3 has been going on from 2005 in the form of trying the major vendors but by 09 most are too costly and slow (to create value) .

    Why will Salesforce/Netsuite/ Workday/ SugarCRM/ the other 10 etc.. do well in the next 5-10 yrs because they are the only game in town, the mega vendors are so slow and expensive and force you to retool and (then buy more of their software which forces you upgarde to their managment stack and then add the BI which only works if the SOA is in too) etc.. If all I want is a quick order entry module for a new distro center in a region or a quick HR module or CRM etc.. then SaaS is going to make sense. Even if it cost $5k a user if all I have to buy.     Reply
  • commenter
    nitadmin
    Jan 14 10:14 PM
    New Rivals May Torment Salesforce.com and Concur - Barron's [view article]
    Microsoft is also competing against Salesforce with its CRM product. The newly released Microsoft Dynamics CRM 4.0 is upgrade of popular Microsoft Dynamics CRM 3.0. Microsoft is also offering Microsoft Dynamics CRM Live. However, the bigest challenge to Salesforce could come from Microsoft hosting partners, who will be able to offer Micorosft Dynamics CRM 4.0, along with Hosted Microsoft Exchange 2007, Micorosft Office Sharepoint Server (MOSS)2007. Microsoft Dynamics CRM 4.0 Enterpise edition gives Micorosft hosting partners multi-tenet capabilities. Which basically allows Microsoft Dynamics CRM 4.0 server to host crm for many clients. Reply
  • commenter
    Netsour
    Jan 11 08:34 PM
    Netsuite: A Stock to Consider [view article]
    I bought the small biz package from Netsuite and quit using it after my year contract was up. Talking with other three other end users, consensus is negative. Reply
  • commenter
    Tom
    Greenberg
    Jan 08 01:21 PM
    New Rivals May Torment Salesforce.com and Concur - Barron's [view article]
    Actually all these companies compete against each other! Maybe Concur does not have SFA, but Salesforce.com does have expense reporting to some degree, and Netsuite does have SFA and CRM and Accounting, etc.

    I believe dozens of new rivals will go public including companies such as Salesboom.com and Entellium     Reply
  • commenter
    SpareTimeFun
    Jan 07 05:06 PM
    New Rivals May Torment Salesforce.com and Concur - Barron's [view article]
    Totally agree with The Dawg. If we were back a dozen years ago or so, it would be like this guy saying that there could only be two successful software companies in the world.

    On demand applications compete on function -- expense reporting, travel booking, salesforce automation, etc. -- not on the software delivery model. The delivery model drives up value because of the lower costs and therefore higher leveraged profitability.     Reply
  • commenter
    The Dawg
    Jan 07 02:37 PM
    New Rivals May Torment Salesforce.com and Concur - Barron's [view article]
    I don't get your point at all - these apps all do different things. Neither N nor SFSF do expense reporting - so how do they compete with Concur? And while N has salesforce automation, SFSF does not.

    It's not like a company needs only 1 SAAS vendor. They need multiple, picking the best-of-breed apps for specific tasks.     Reply
  • commenter
    Hello143
    Dec 28 01:44 PM
    NetSuite: Not as Well Positioned as Larger Players [view article]
    I completely agree with your analysis and add that there's a great deal of loose use of the ERP term in the industry, but none more so than by Netsuite. Like halo30k, I have been implementing ERP-type systems for most of my career, but Netsuite is not ERP. It could be described as enterprise accounting modules with sales force automation and website ecommerce, but that's not ERP. Also, having sold and implemented Netsuite for more than 4 years, they have reduced their potential market and removed themselves from the small to medium sized business in their pricing and complexity. Not that small companies are not complex, many are much more complex than larger companies, but they can't serve them either. The problem is getting a small business to justify $30K per year for a 4 user saas solution, when Intuit Quickbooks Online is $600 per year. Granted, there's a huge gap in functionality between these two products, but if I were to invest in a company, I would find one that provides that functionality for these small companies for $6k per year and you have a big winner. There's simply two many skilled and experienced vendors at the large enterprise level, such as SAP, Microsoft, Oracle, JDEdwards, etc., plus the competition from Salesforce, Seibel and others. I think the current stock is grossly overpriced and many will lose as it comes back down to the $12-16 level it should be sold. Reply
  • commenter
    Dennis
    Byron
    (Research
    2.0)
    Dec 27 05:20 PM
    My Website
    NetSuite: Not as Well Positioned as Larger Players [view article]
    Halo30K

    Thanks for the comment. At Research 2.0, we agree with your analysis that the SOA-ERP market will follow the past lifecycle of legacy-ERP followed by CS-ERP followed by Internet-ERP. (SaaS is just how you buy it to us but we agree with your wave theory.) The report that this blog post references goes into more detail.

    But your analysis that the old dogs can't learn new tricks (and therefore the next era will be dominated by a lot of new names) isn't historically accurate. In the past, typically only one new name has broken through per era. SAP did not just emerge from the fields of Waldorf in 1992; it had been into mainframe ERP for 10-15 years before that. Edwards certainly made the transition from legacy (System/38 in its case) as well. Most of the original Microsoft stuff was monolithic too, but on a PC. Peoplesoft was the breakthrough application vendor of the client/server era. Siebel was the breakthrough application vendor of the Internet era.

    We also agree with your comments about BPEL (invented by SAP) and open source software. One of our concerns about NetSuite, detailed in the report, is that it is not doing enough in these new technology areas.

    Thanks again.     Reply
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