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  • commenter
    Right in
    San
    Francisco
    Sep 25 12:40 PM
    My Website
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    Newsflash for Lawrence Yun of the National Association of Realtors: The housing industry will not return to normal growth until the excesses in prices and quantity caused by 20 years of easy money have worked their way through the system. We are arguing about the mechanics of the financial side of it, but that is what will happen as the laws of economics once again triumph. Reply
  • commenter
    BlueAmerican
    Sep 25 12:28 PM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    Have some faith. The sun will come up tomorrow. Yes, the taxpayers will be paying the bill but I bet a few years down the road it will be seen as the right way to go. I think P & B get it that if there isn't a pay off for Main Street then there won't be a pay off for Wall Street. P has not done a good job of selling it but when the final deal of the bail out is all worked out, it will not make anybody happy at first but down the road it will have been the seen as the right thing that did get done. N obody likes to take medicine but they all like what it does. Reply
  • commenter
    hanson001
    Sep 25 12:09 PM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    axelrod6008: If I could have my way, the people that helped create this problem would have zero assets. That would mean that a great deal of the world's population would have no roof over their head. The plan that's in front of Congress is the government attempting to preserve what is left.

    The government will not allow a run on the banks? Yeah, like the Great Depression, when we had bank holidays, after the damage was done. And the French government couldn't stop the bastille coming down, eventhough they said don't do that. One could argue the run has already begun with Bearns Stearns and Lehman. The government always acts after the infection has taken hold.     Reply
  • commenter
    axelrod608
    Sep 25 11:09 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    Jon T - the domino effect has already happened. In many ways. Example - Florida's state pension plan got stuck with a bunch of Lehman stock. OOOps !!! So did most other pension plans, money market funds, etc. Honestly, do you think there is an investment entity out there that currently holds 100% of 2005 assets ? No way.

    You cannot have a run on the banks if the government prohibits it. I'm not saying nothing should be done. What I'm saying is that what's done should be done to protect and preserve what's left, not to enrich the folks who created the problem. The P&B plan is designed to preserve and protect the status quo. The tidal wave of liquidity is designed to bail out the perps, the ones who engineered this mess in the first place.

    P&B are right in one respect - the magnitude of what is about to happen is enormous. There are over 1,000 Trillion dollars of face value derivatives all around the world. Let's say the US - at the epicenter of this foolishness - has half, 500 trillion. And lets say, conservatively that the loss is 12%. - a mere 60 Trillion.

    Anyone who thinks the paltry 700 B P&B plan is going to fix this is , er. overly optimistic. Foolish perhaps.

    There's one more aspect to bankruptcy that I did not note earlier - in bankruptcy, forensic accountants would go over the books to find improper tranactions. I suspect this is another important reason why the insolvent fincos want to create an alternative to bankrupcy like the P&B plan. To keep their officers and directors out of jail.

    Nobody, myself included, has all the answers. There is NO plan or program that will make this mess alright. Japan did this 19 years ago and is still in recession. Never recovered. Anyone who thinks "the economy will turn around soon" is just not paying attention.

    My objection to the P&B plan is simple - it is business as usual. Same players, only a few of the rules changed. And P&B want to keep the game going. The perps have lost all the stockholders' money, they now want to play the game with MY/OUR money. It is business as usual that got us here. You don't honestly think the perps are going to do anything different do you ? Example - when Bernanke opened the discount window, Lehnam grabbed a bunch and gave it out as bonuses. I want people who do this kind of stuff taken out of the game.

    The people running our nation's fincos make Bonnie and Clyde look like a pair of social workers. You cannot seriously want these people getting access to federal funds.

    The P&B plan is a bailout of the people and institutions that got us here. The bankruptcy system would eliminate the people and institutions that are/were the worst offenders. There is a huge difference.

    Finally, P T Barnum said it best, "you can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time. But you can't fool all the people all the time". The administration of George II has fooled most of the people most of the time. And I see the P&B plan as his parting "gift", not to "we the sheeple", but to the big money special interests.

    If you are in favor of the P&B plan all I can say is good luck. You're going to need it.     Reply
  • commenter
    Jon T
    Sep 25 09:58 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    axelrod608: dealing with ONE Lehman Bros is fine.

    So you're happy to sit on your hands and wait and see what happens when the domino effect takes down, not two or three or ten, but three hundred banks around the world...?

    Then, your arguments and excuses will no doubt start with: "In hindsight..."

    The situation is very serious and the precipice pretty dam close. It ain't politics, it's Confidence with a capital C.     Reply
  • commenter
    hanson001
    Sep 25 09:48 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    axelrod608: "In the P&B (Paulson and Bernake) plan I have yet to hear where the proceeds would go. Wouldn't paying the creditors be a good thing, especially since P&B have repeatedly made the case that their plan is to fix the credit problem ? "

    The tax payers, like always, are the creditors. The proceeds, depending on how the reverse auction turns out, could be a good investment. Don't get me wrong. I am for the free-hand no matter what. My belief is that great stress is the only way to change behavior.

    axelrod608: "It would be a piece of cake to add a dozen or more judges to the bankruptcy system to handle the additional demand. The cost would be recaptured in the asset auctions. More responsible companies with stronger balance sheets and more conservative executives would buy up the assets of the insolvent companies and put them back to work. And they wouldn't play Lotto with their shareholders' funds."

    This problem is global and I believe we are close to a run on the banks. The behavior in the money market accounts and the t-bill yields should give you a clue. People, smartly, have no confidence in the system. Too many lies, too much greed, too many people with great dept levels crying about the government having the same problem. Wow! We have a very sick culture.

    Our sin nature makes me collect ammo.     Reply
  • commenter
    captainjohan
    n
    Sep 25 09:43 AM
    My Website
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    Bush knows, macain knows, they are on way out.so they want to milk the system till it has suckers. Reply
  • commenter
    User 211108
    Sep 25 09:24 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    I have no sympathy for the Fuld's of the world, and I think the comment about not knowing "what it is like on the 31st floor unless you have been there" is absurd. Contrast if you will the difficulties of being on the ground in combat as a platoon leader who gets paid fifty grand a year at best with any of the Wall Street wonders who earn in the millions, sometimes in a week or two. Americans, and I think most people anywhere resent excessive compensation for jobs that many of the little people could do. That people like Fuld have great economic success is largely due to "right place, right time", old boy associations, insider club, controlled, compliant boards, etc.and so on. The point is that if you can walk away with ten, fifteen, or fifty million for a couple of years of being in the "hot seat" there is no other compensation due you in the form of sympathy or understanding by anyone for how hard the job actually is. Reply
  • commenter
    User 179693
    Sep 25 09:19 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    axelrod 608, my friend complete agree with you, the problem was short regulation from the government, so what was impossible to do for terrorist , mr president do in few years, he destroy our country Reply
  • commenter
    notsosmart
    Sep 25 09:14 AM
    My Website
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    never happen.those in power take care of themselves almost 100%.thats what got us into this mess. Reply
  • commenter
    axelrod608
    Sep 25 08:35 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    The most inexplicable aspect of the "bailout" Congress is debating is that this nation already has a system to deal with insolvent businesses - bankruptcy court - which has been around a very long time and which works. Ask the 10,000 Lehman employees who were put back to work this week after the Lehman bankruptcy. The company that bought Lehman assets - Barclays - rehired 10,000 employees.

    So, if we already have an operational, fully functional system to deal with these types of problems, what is Congress doing with all this bailout frenzy ? let's take a closer look.

    Under the bailout plan and the bankruptcy trustee, a third party would auction off assets - no gifference. In bankruptcy, the proceeds would go to creditors. In the P&B (Paulson and Bernake) plan I have yet to hear where the proceeds would go. Wouldn't paying the creditors be a good thing, especially since P&B have repeatedly made the case that their plan is to fix the credit problem ?

    In bankruptcy, the court appointed trustee would keep the personnel he/she deemed necessary for the continuing operation of the company and dismiss the rest. Under the P&B plan, the officers and directors would remain and they would keep what other employees they deemed necessary. Whoa !! Do we have a difference here? Yes !! Under the P&B plan, the incompetent casino gamblers masquerading as CEO's and directors who caused the problem would be kept on at their multimillion dollar salaries (plus bonus, of course). The bankruptcy trustee would give them a pink slip entitling them to 13 weeks of unemployment. I think we're on to something here.

    It would be a piece of cake to add a dozen or more judges to the bankruptcy system to handle the additional demand. The cost would be recaptured in the asset auctions. More responsible companies with stronger balance sheets and more conservative executives would buy up the assets of the insolvent companies and put them back to work. And they wouldn't play Lotto with their shareholders' funds.

    Let me put it bluntly, for a Congressman or Senator to not recognize that we already have in place a fully functional system designed to do exactly what the "bailout" proposes to do implies that our leaders either have a double digit IQ or a six digit bribe (campaign contribution)being paid by these same financial companies. Or that they are just plain ignorant.

    P&B are trying to keep a bunch of incompetent executives in multimillion dollar jobs (plus bonus). They are looking out for their buddies. A noble pursuit in combat, not so noble in a sea of financial trouble. Please, let's cut through all the bull, all the posturing, all the doom and gloom, all the "sky is falling" rhetoric. Will this mess cost the American citizens ? More than you know. Check your grocery bill, your electric bill, your gas bill. You're already paying for the irresponsible excess of a few irresponsible "financiers"...

    And the effects will be felt around the world. Already there have been food riots in many countries. Americans owe it to the themselves and the rest of their species to fix their problems. Not hide them behind a screen of smoke and mirrors and special interests and 'good old boy' networks.

    This is not a crisis unless Congress makes it a crisis. Turn it over to the bankruptcy courts and give the bankruptcy courts all the resources they need to expeditiously process what needs to be done. And like I said yesterday, let the incompetent multimillion-dollar-a-... executives that got us into this mess flip burgers, not CDS's.
    Reply
  • commenter
    Jersey
    Sep 25 08:22 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    Regardless of what Sen. Obama instigates, Main St. ought to be more concerned about what it has to lose should Sec. Paulson's plan not be approved instead of what it can get out of the plan if it is approved. Reply
  • commenter
    RIGRNR281
    Sep 25 08:03 AM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    ty,ty, for having "have ur say" feature. sincerely,,, other sites simply do not care what their readers have to say,,
    specifically i am refering to news sites, who could care less if a reader has a comment, on what, to me, is a biased "reporter"     Reply
  • commenter
    billp37
    Sep 24 10:59 PM
    My Website
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    "Dear American:
    I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

    I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

    I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.

    This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

    Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@trea... so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

    Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson"     Reply
  • commenter
    axelrod608
    Sep 24 03:42 PM
    Wall Street Breakfast: Must-Know News [view article]
    Au contraire. This IS a bailout of Wall St. We have perfectly good bankruptcy courts. We could add a couple dozen more judges and handle this in the way the system is set up to handle it.

    Lehman is back in business, at least the part that was bought and reopened. 10,000 employees are back at work. The ONLY reason Wall St insiders and the legislators are conspiring to use the taxpayers to avoid bankruptcy is to maintain as many of the lucrative jobs as possible for the folks who created this mess.

    Who wins ? New York city and state depend heavily on finco tax receipts. But those are in the toilet regardless - you gotta make money to pay taxes. Shareholders of the many insolvent finco's get at least some of their investment protected by bailing out failed businesses.

    Who loses ? Let's see the hands of every taxpayer who honestly believes that this sale of assets will produce a profit and the gummint will send us all a big check and a thank you note for letting us use our money for the bailout. Seeing no hands raised, I can say that this plan IS sophisticated and expected. I would have expected no less from the administration of George II.

    The Patriot Act was a scam. The Iraq war was/is a scam. This is a scam. The only way a con game can work is if the mark has confidence in the scammer. Do you really have any confidence whatsoever that this group of people can fix this problem ? I spend hours a day reading, investigating, investing and trying to synthesize what's going on into understandable, credible theses. This one doesn't make any sense whatsoever except if you view it from an insider's game to preserve the status quo. On that level, it makes perfect sense.

    We are all going to pay dearly for the fraudulent excess that got our financial markets into this mess. Do we really want to leave the same folks in charge ?     Reply
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