China Petroleum & Chemical Corp. (SNP)

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  • commenter
    J.D
    Apr 18 11:38 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    China's stock market has fallen far. It will fall even farther as SOEs - the backbone of the Chinese economy - reveal their poor earnings in 2008. Taking losses on cross holdings will be very, very painful. Reply
  • commenter
    chinesepetti
    Apr 18 09:54 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    Wishful thinking! how you guys are so shallow minded? wishing ill for other nation is not going to help get over your credit crisis, plus your government only lasts 4 years and your next president in waiting Mr Mcain is going to lead you stay in Iraq for another 100 years. Good luck and good night! Reply
  • commenter
    nickgogerty
    Apr 18 08:30 AM
    My Website
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    nickgogerty.typepad.co...

    The iron rice bowl may crack. Historically govt cycles in China run for 15-20 years and there is current economic and social pressure which is increasing the probability for a significant political shift in 12-18 months. The outcome and implications for Chinese citizens is uncertain.     Reply
  • commenter
    chinesepetti
    Apr 18 04:43 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    All whinners here; buy citi and sell china. ask your red expert Mr petti. Reply
  • commenter
    chinesepetti
    Apr 18 04:42 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    I like to remind readers here; Mr Petti worked for Bear Stern and also he is working in a State Chinese Communist run school at the moment. Details please visit seekingalpha.com/autho...

    China has many problems on its own; but it's very ironic the red communists do not mind Mr Petti (who is paid salary by the Chinese communist run school) being so critical of everything in China even the air he breathes every day.     Reply
  • commenter
    No Moss
    Apr 18 12:19 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    Here are some things to think about when investing in China. First, China has a big inflation problem right now. Inflation is a problem for the middle class and a nightmare for the poor. The government has to take action to reduce inflation to avoid serious instability. One of the things they're doing is tightening the reserve requirements for banks, i.e., raising the amount of deposits the banks have to hold to lend the same amount of money. This, in turn, depresses growth in the long run.

    Another problem for China is that many private companies would love to go public, and that has the potential to dilute the market to the point where you don't get the huge runups that you saw prior to late last year.

    China is still growing rapidly, and there is still demand for stocks, since the alternatives are real estate, which is falling in my area (Shenzhen) and bank deposits, which don't offer a negative return viz a viz inflation.

    Lack of transparency in financial statements, endemic corruption and theft of company assets, and government involvement in both regulation and ownership of the companies are all factors to look out for.

    On the other hand, the RMB is rising vs. the US dollar, which gives American investors a hedge, and there is an arbitrage opportunity to investing in shares listed on the Hong Kong index (Hang Seng Index, or HSI) and one of the China exchanges (Shanghai and Shenzhen).

    It's all to complex for me. BTW, my guess is that Duder is Chinese. No pollution in Shenzhen? Check out the river, the bay, and the sky the next time you're outdoors, Duder. Nasty stuff. And Shenzhen is way better than most Chinese cities. I've been here five years.     Reply
  • commenter
    SB-tiger
    Apr 18 12:04 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    1. Chinese stocks were in a bubble that has burst. There was some kind of expectation (misplaced) that the Chinese Govt. would somehow intervene and prop up the market. The reason always was cited ‘Chinese image before the Olympics’. That whole concept is of course is debunked. Now- today (again) Shanghai hit a new 52 week low, down almost 50% from its highs. Likely more pain to come.
    2. Chinese Accounting: There is reason to be suspicious – the general fear of the unknown. We have not yet seen any specific example of bad accounting. We (in US) have had our share of accounting and related scandals, so we should not be pointing fingers at China. Jim Rogers, (the famous investor and author of Bull in China) had once commented (paraphrased) “If you get caught in a scandal in China – you would be summarily shot dead – that puts a lot of fear in Chinese Managers”.
    3. Chinese Pollution etc- I had visited China for a few weeks recently – I did not find any bad pollution. Just lot of economic activity – construction and cranes everywhere (really everywhere). Chinese economic growth is real and would last for some time – it has 1.5 Trillion Dollars in reserves for every possible rainy day.
    4. Chinese Negatives – it is communist country, the govt. controls the economy. They change rules over night and profits vanish. Increasing or decreasing subsidies, export controls etc. The Chinese oil companies (like Petro China etc) can’t make profits because of price controls. Today PTR has gone below its IPO price, Buffet was a smart seller – even though he sold much below the peak.

    Beware of Chinese stocks for now, play Taiwan or maybe Hong Kong.
    Reply
  • commenter
    chinesepetti
    Apr 18 12:01 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    Let's look how good we are in the West with 100% transparancy; citi, bear stern, Merril, countrywide, Enron....the list I suppose can go on more than 100s. Longshort, are you a bit shamed of the above lists with your quality accounting work? Reply
  • commenter
    longshort
    Apr 17 07:14 PM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    To duder,
    I am really surprised about your logic as a law professional.

    As a former auditor in big four auditing Chinese public companies listing in US, HK, Singapore, UK and China exchanges, I really worry about the transparancy issues. Even audited by the prestigious firms, you could not trust the statements without any enforcement system. Let's say, what if you become one of victims in those accounting shenanigans. If they happened in one Chinese listing company, I would not expect there will be another Anthur Anderson. If you say you have the experience to handle that, I would say you now have tremendous opportunities to file class suit. When I used to be a lawyer practising in China, I didn't find there were any. So Law professor, do give me a call when you find some.     Reply
  • commenter
    53Buick
    Apr 17 06:47 PM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    It's time to get over it...things change. I invest only in China companies which do trumpet transparency, GAAP standards, and western corporate governance standards. They are there. You just have to do your homework.... Reply
  • commenter
    ChrisB
    Apr 17 02:01 PM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    To duder, you must not have gotten out much in the USA since I do not see much of anything you seem to imply is present here. Like where you live but your comments on things in the USA are no more enlightened than the ones you are criticising.

    As to China, some stocks are undoubtedly inflated. But the blue chips like CHL have a ways to go. I sold CHL with a 20% profit and have been kicking myself ever since....     Reply
  • commenter
    chinesepetti
    Apr 17 11:39 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    Roger, you seemed still not being sure about investing your money into China yet. Why not ask your China Expert Mr petti, the EX Bear Stern guy! I like to advise every readers here; My petti worked in Bear Stern before, the information is on this website seekingalpha.com/autho...
    Thank you Mr Petti for your disclosure! You are a great American     Reply
  • commenter
    dadodge2
    Apr 17 11:02 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    Actually your opinion on China's standard of living is totally off.

    Living here in China, I am free from visual pollution (i.e. the vandalism of everything and anything in America), cultural pollution (i.e. Oprah and her ilk), political pollution (i.e. the dems and the repubs), social pollution (people here do what they want here and raise their families in the way they want), and all forms of other pollution.

    I am surprised to read that you are so free back in America.

    I live here in China and am not an armchair scholar commenting from another country on the occurences in this soceity. I am a new immigrant but a well treated immigrant, nontheless, here in Shenzhen. I am also a law professor and lawyer licensed to practice law in California, DC and other jurisdictions.

    Maybe in the US they don't want people to know about all the great things happening outside the US particularly in China.

    I am interested to know from what great propaganda machine your opinions on China originate from?

    If you really want to be a part of the 21st century (versus some guy in NY or Oklahoma or Cali talking nonsense about it) you should come to China.

    Live here for 2 years and write us back-- China Expert.     Reply
  • commenter
    CrossProfit
    Apr 17 10:41 AM
    My Website
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    If China would adapt GAAP, the general market could go a lot higher especially if the audited statements came from reputable U.S./international firms.

    This is something that Beijing has known for a long time and has still to get over the fear that the 'West' will know too much about the Chinese economy, especially companies with a government ownership component.

    It will happen eventually, the question is when? When this does become the trend, especially for a serious number of mid-caps, then you will see the real boom.

    For the time being the Chinese are saying that the rest of the world should rely on the Chinese system, but there is limited faith in how the current system works. The 'financial crisis' in the U.S. has sort of pushed things off a bit more into the future.

    Previous highs were just the appetizer, the main course has yet to be served. This could take as much as eighteen months to begin to materialize. The exact timing is directly linked to actions from the centralized government...so it could change overnight.

    Look for accounting transparency and credibility for the next wave. This was the one ingredient that was missing from the first. The rest of the necessary factors, as mentioned in the article, are in place.

    consensus CrossProfit     Reply
  • commenter
    bluesmoke
    Apr 17 10:12 AM
    Considerations on Investing in China [view article]
    Roger - I did the exact same thing. When I heard the brokerages were opening new accounts over there at the rate of 100,000 a day, (it was something like that), I felt it was a bad sign. Although I walked with a little over 30%, I missed another 30% or so. But you raise good points, and I have yet to step back in. I just feel safer in Brazil/Latin America & India for now. Reply
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