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Zelaza

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  • Tesla: Don't Say You Never Had A Dip To Buy On [View article]
    wrwhiteal writes: " So you are off by a factor of more than 100,000......"

    Actually, the ship's engines are on 24/7 while it's in transit, and still burning fuel even in port. An average car is "on" , I'm guessing, about 10 hours per week. The ship is ON about 15x the hours of a car, so the factor you estimate is probably only about 6,000 to 1 :-)
    Current TV commercials (on PBS) advertise that railroads move many tons of stuff hundreds of miles on only a gallon of fuel.
    Apr 20 08:47 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Is Tesla's Gigafactory Becoming A Gigafarce? [View article]
    Dave_M writes: "Why would you try and make a point about the comparative cost of fuels (in general) by selecting a really expensive car in your example."
    Well, for one thing, Dave, you own and drive an 85kWh Model S and never miss the opportunity to tell us how great you feel whenever you pass a gas station and watch the prices go up. It's only natural to make remarks using your Model S as an example. But if one were to consider a "lesser" EV, such as a Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf, the conclusions would be similar. Both those cars sell at a premium of about $10,000 over their ICE equivalents and, including their higher gas mileage, the up-front cost of their batteries will still, all but, destroy the fuel saving comparison.
    Consider a hypothetical example. You go to a high end dealership and select a car to purchase. At the end of the grueling dealer experience you are offered goodies: an extended warranty and some other (expensive) extras, that you decline. But his time the dealer offers "free" gas for your new car for 10 years (or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first) (NOTE: a few years ago a similar thing happened when dealers offered free gas for a year in order to move cars). At what cost? Only $20,000 payable now. Do you take it? You pretty much do when it's a Model S.

    " Yep. I know why. Because you want to justify spending thousands more in gasoline for every year of everyone's life. "
    WRONG !! (That's a pretty confused claim.) Actually, I'm trying, in my small way, to confront and challenge the FUD spread by Tesla advocates concerning the illusions of the (low) cost of ownership, exaggerated claims of environmental benefits, and a near maintenance free experience forever.

    I'm a believer in EVs. I love electric drives because of their flexibility, reliability and compactness; little else makes sense to me. I've even proposed and designed a few using motors that cost $10,000+ and operate at 10 watts or less (yes, Watts, not kW; motors for satellite reaction wheels, scan systems, and actuators.) But I hate excessive, and exclusive, reliance on batteries; they have never failed to disappoint me.
    Apr 18 12:35 PM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Is Tesla's Gigafactory Becoming A Gigafarce? [View article]
    Dave_M writes: " No Martin, gasoline is much more expensive. Here's the comparative cost to drive 250 miles:"

    Here we go again.
    Using the Dave_M's Model S as an example, the battery in it costs (adds to purchase price), perhaps, $20,000 (almost $50,000 to replace, as some Model S owners have had the misfortune to learn). That's $20,000 you pay up front for a component whose main/only purpose is to store electrical energy (and extra weight); and over ten years that comes to about $2,000 per year (pre-paid); not much of a saving. When you buy gas you pay for it only as you use it. Also, if you're in Florida, 83% of electricity for recharging comes from fossil fuels (62% natural gas, 21% coal) and only about 2.2% comes from renewables ... so much for not being addicted to hydrocarbons.

    " When you factor in maintenance, gasoline cars are even more expensive. Oil leaks, filters, belts, hoses, tune-ups, starter batteries, radiator fluid, etc. None of those things even exist in an EV. "
    That's wrong !!!
    The cooling system for the Model S main battery and motor uses something like 23 quarts of coolant ... and you better not have a leak in it. And the Model S has a 12 volt battery (same as a starter battery) that operates non-drive train functions (and must release the brakes.) And if that battery doesn't work, neither does the car; in fact, that battery has been a major problem for Tesla as many have had to be replaced (some multiple times.)
    Apr 18 09:54 AM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Is Tesla's Gigafactory Becoming A Gigafarce? [View article]
    biobat writes: " ... Also, to take advantage of the $7500 tax credit, you hardly need to be rich. A single filer with taxable income of $46K or a joint return with taxable income of $56K would both pay $7500 in taxes. "

    Let's see, with a taxable income of $46K (or $56K) go out and buy a $100K car. That seems reasonable.
    Apr 16 10:51 AM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Tesla: Don't Say You Never Had A Dip To Buy On [View article]
    JRP3 writes: "Do the math Z, $57K - the rebate = $49K."
    Thanks JRP3, I could never figure that complex math out all by myself. However, I find it interesting that Tesla came up with a price of $57,400 so that subtracting $7500 would just happen to give $49,900, just a hair under the magic $50K threshold. Coincidence? I think not.

    " However since only 4% of buyers were choosing the 40kWh version Tesla wisely decided to cancel it, ..."
    That is complete BS. Tesla discontinued the 40kWh Model S because it was, paraphrasing Musk's own words, "a dog". I don't have the time, right now, to find the video where Musk admits that. The 4% buyers claim is a convenient excuse, and was inevitable since Tesla, it is reported, bad mouthed the 40 kWh to potential purchasers.

    PeterJA's remark, " My guess is you are eager for them to fail." refers to the space launch he mentioned, and not to Tesla Motor cars. That is the gratuitous accusation that PJA should retract.
    Apr 14 11:06 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Tesla: Don't Say You Never Had A Dip To Buy On [View article]
    PeterJA writes: " ...If you want to comb the historical record to cherry-pick minor mistakes Elon made, while ignoring his major achievements, have fun."

    Does your list of minor mistakes include the failure to deliver the 40 kWh Model S that was priced at $57,900 but touted to only cost $49,900? Then again, perhaps it wasn't a mistake but a purposeful bait and switch poster child for publicity purposes.

    PJA also asserts: " ... My guess is you are eager for them to fail."
    That is a shameful slur that should be retracted immediately
    Apr 14 09:18 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Tesla: Don't Say You Never Had A Dip To Buy On [View article]
    chipdoctor writes: " ... Also, you can change the motor design (i.e. number of poles) to provide more torque... "

    Using the same technology, the torque produced by an electric motor, is (roughly) proportional to the square of the rotor diameter and the rotor's axial length; in other words, to approximately the volume of the cylindrical envelope containing the rotor structure. So, basically, to get more torque you need a bigger motor; again, using the same technology. If you demand enough torque capability, pretty soon the wheel motor gets bigger than the wheel it's supposed to be in.
    The torque doesn't depend on the number of poles (unless something stupid is done.)
    Apr 13 11:34 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Is Tesla's Gigafactory Becoming A Gigafarce? [View article]
    The electric starter did not come from Ford.
    The electric starter was invented by Charles Kettering around 1911 for Cadillac.
    From Wiki:
    "The first electrical ignition system or electric starter motor for cars was invented by GM engineers Clyde Coleman and Charles Kettering. The self starting ignition was first installed in a Cadillac on February 17, 1911. The invention of the electric starter motor by Charles Kettering eliminated the need for hand cranking. United States Patent #1,150,523, was issued to Charles Kettering of Dayton, Ohio in 1915.
    Charles Kettering became the founder of Delco (Dayton Engineering Laboratories Company). "

    Many people thought of using electric motors to "crank" the gasoline motor. But in all cases the electric motor required would have to be too big. Kettering (or members of his team) realized that the electric motor would only have to operate for a (very) few seconds to start the gas engine. In that case the electric motor could be much smaller and driven very hard for only a few moments and, therefore, not burn-up/self-destruct. WHA-LAH, the electric starter and the rest is a hundred years of success.
    Apr 12 11:23 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Tesla: Don't Say You Never Had A Dip To Buy On [View article]
    chipdoctor writes: " ... Adding smaller electric "wheel" motors (to the other drive wheels) is a very cost effective (and controllable) method to achieve AWD/4WD. This solution has lower mass, faster response, and less complexity than the mechanical equivalent. "
    Actually, adding "wheel motors" is a horrible idea. Because the wheel motors are directly coupled to the wheel they don't have the advantage of the (almost) 10 to 1 increase in torque from the current motor to the rear wheels. If the wheel motors were to provide the same torque as the rear wheels, the wheel motors (each of them) would need 5x the torque capability of the current motor. Each of the wheel motors would need its own power inverter. And each wheel would weigh a ton more (joking: means lots and lots more) than the current wheels; and the motors subjected to hideous road shocks and hazards.
    Actually, aside from using a separate motor-inverter for the front wheels (as shown on the Tesla site) a suitable mechanical solution might be to add a drive shaft from the rear gear box and bring the power forward mechanically; something that is probably too ugly for Tesla to consider.
    Apr 11 02:01 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Silence On Gigafactory Partnerships Suggest Tesla Might Be A Near-Term Short [View article]
    philblock recommends: " throw off all the electrical components and the reduced weight will probably get you 80 miles to a gallon. "
    Do you mean to also include the headlights (or use a gas lantern), the radio, the wipers (could use compressed air as in early VWs)?

    " hybrid is an engineering joke ". Like diesel electric locomotives and the propulsion systems of many large ships?
    Apr 9 04:09 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Silence On Gigafactory Partnerships Suggest Tesla Might Be A Near-Term Short [View article]
    I don't understand why a company like Panasonic would financially and technologically support a venture, like Tesla's, whose sole purpose is to eliminate Panasonic's sales (and profits) to Tesla and, on top of that, produce batteries that will compete against Panasonic in supplying batteries to other EV companies ? Same goes for the other major battery producers.
    I just don't get it.
    Apr 9 11:47 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Companies To Watch As Tesla Drives Down Lithium Battery Cost [View article]
    So if Panasonic invests in Tesla's battery factory to help drive down the cost and profit in batteries, how does Panasonic benefit?
    Apr 8 01:39 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Tesla And Texas: A Solid Plan For The Gigafactory [View article]
    " Other reasons to build the factory in Texas include: a large supply of well-educated labor from UT, Rice, A&M, and other top institutions; ... "

    I doubt that graduates of UT, Rice, A&M, and other top institutions are going to be eager to work at a "battery factory." The workers at a "battery factory" will be of the same background as, for example, auto workers, steel works, oil industry workers, etc. Battery research can be located anywhere and just as likely in California, or Asia, as anywhere.
    And I feel pretty certain that the conservative social climate, as exemplified by Perry, and other Texas politicians, is contrary to what Tesla and other California based companies espouse.
    Apr 4 05:07 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Why Tesla's 'Not A Recall' Victory Will Crush Q1 Earnings [View article]
    Anyone else notice the very similar stylings between Ford Prefect 1969 and Julian Cox? Or did I miss a memo?
    Mar 31 10:43 AM | 5 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Why Tesla's 'Not A Recall' Victory Will Crush Q1 Earnings [View article]
    Mr. Petersen,
    How might the three layer battery armour affect the price of the proposed Gen 3? I can't imagine anyone purchasing a Gen 3 will settle for anything less than the full armour protection package.
    Mar 30 03:02 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
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