DRich

A123 vs. BYD and Other Irrational Battery Investments

User 481086,
Welcome to the discussion. As your questions point to, you've got a lot of reading to do. If this storage "thing" has peeked your interest, the following web address you'll find fascinating. It's the archive of Mr. Peterson's work.

seekingalpha.com/autho...

It's a lot to take in, but it's the best source of intelligent discussion out there. IMHO. By all means read the comment sections too.

According to Treasury Spread Model, No Chance of a Douple-Dip Recession

I'd be willing to think that this is more than a CYA data point if it extended out to "guess" the future and the next occurrence. Using lagging data to predict the past is just useless blather.

A123 Systems IPO Meets with Great Success

Don,
I know you have to defend your turf, but you rise to the bait too quickly.

Toyota Tests and Rejects Lithium-Ion Batteries for the Prius

I saw a diesel/electric Golf at the Geneva auto show last year that I had been following the development of for about 8 years. I was really excited to se that it was all the way to production phase. Tooling, scheduling, delivery dates (summer/fall 2009). They were even willing to take my order for it right there & then. But Noooooo! Six months before scheduled roll-out it was canceled with the explanation that it was too expensive to produce (margin problems, I guess), yet they had gone all the way through to tooling. You might have the car in the EU, but no way for the US unless it could be built here. Pissed me off.

VW is probably going to a leader in EV's of some sort, but my experience has put me squarely in the "believe it when I see it" and I'm mad enough that it had best be state of the art and competitively priced if & when it does arrive.

Looks Like We're All Communists Now

MOVIE STARS PAY GOES UP & DOWN BASED ON BOX OFFICE PERFORMANCE .... BANKERS NOT SO MUCH!

PHEVs and EVs: Plugging into a Lump of Coal

Atta-Boy John!!!

PHEVs and EVs; Plugging Into a Lump of Coal

I'm no fan of the PHEV, but from a Wall Street/DC perspective the concentration of the problem seems to be the one that is preferred (at the moment). The PR campaign that is being waged leads me to that conclusion. I'd much prefer shoveling resources toward the most economically efficient way of reducing oil consumption, but at present that is not where the money and political will is being spent in the USA. Politics likes the flashy part of PHEV and Wall Street likes the money being spent on something that doesn't, presently, threaten the overseas investments made.
It will, apparently, take the demonstration of the high cost of PHEV in the market to knock this idea into the 'common wisdom'. I see a justifiable political argument for the concentration of pollution, a cynical capitalist reason to sell it. In the end, I believe when real numbers of consumers start spending it will be toward efficiency.
My 'hope' is that when the tsunami hits, the USA has spent enough wisely to rebuild a competitive industrial base and done the storage systems research to be more that just a consumer nation.

PHEVs and EVs; Plugging Into a Lump of Coal

John,
I don't think that shifting the CO2 from road to power plant is such a bad first step. Concentrating the problem might just make abatement economically viable for some new technologies (at least I'm investing that way) such as the demonstrated use of algae or sequestration.

How PHEVs and EVs Will Sabotage America's Drive for Energy Independence

Peace, Don. No offense, but reading these comments is frustrating to me sometimes. Seems that some want to nitpick & browbeat John's presentation of the data he so generously has shared. I don't mind debate of another fact based or 'researchable' point of view, but some want to wander off the narrow focus of the subject in order to......I don't know what. Maybe the ego stroking of being 'righter' than the author. The subject at hand is complex & multifaceted in itself. We all know it doesn't exist in vacuum. The perception of world that energy storage to exists in is IMHO not for here. After all someone has to be on the other side of the trade in order for profit to be made.

How PHEVs and EVs Will Sabotage America's Drive for Energy Independence

Don,
It's not to John to justify or reinforce any reason you might entertain to get involved with this kind of investment (or any other) based on his views of socio-economic fundamentals. That is entirely up to you. He has laid out a rather exhaustive, fact based argument that anyone can accept or reject. I thank him for providing the research/data that he has. Doesn't matter if I agree.

North American Companies Involved inThe Availability of The Heavy Rare Earth Metals And The Future of High-Tech Manufacturing

Yellowhoard, I don't think, for the purpose of DoD needs, the commercial price point for extraction/refining is a consideration. For defense purposes discovery of and setup for a ramp is what is important. Minimal mining at known sites and an over sized refinery would be a good strategic start point.

Vinod Khosla's Stance on the Future of Lithium-ion Batteries

I just love these pissing matches, but Don, quiz me this (and I mean no ill will); How many times (cycles) can I get out of your chemistry if I run the charge down to less than 5% on a regular basis and recharge greater than 90%? In extreme environmental conditions? Is the life time of the pack worth the expense?

Just asking out of ignorance.

Vinod Khosla's Stance on the Future of Lithium-ion Batteries

Glad to see the discussion of accessory power consumption. I've felt that it is a very relevant topic. It is also one of my beliefs that PbC battery packs will come to dominate motive applications as well as my favorite, second tier grid storage. I can't prove anything about the durability of Li or Ni battery packs, but, personally, I'll take the hit on weight over density. My personal favorite configuration for autos is the VW Golf diesel-electric, which they refuse to import. But that's just me.

Vinod Khosla's Stance on the Future of Lithium-ion Batteries

FYI, an A/C unit will "burn" from 745 watts to (typically) 1.5k-2k watts

Vinod Khosla's Stance on the Future of Lithium-ion Batteries

John, I respectfully disagree with "if it's not moving it's not using juice". I am a Texan living in the DFW metro area. Let me tell you that if people are stuck in traffic in 100+ dF and that car is not running an air conditioner, that car will never get sold to anyone in the first place. So the idea of traffic-jam power consumption is one topic I don't think I've ever seen addressed here.