nakedjaybird

The Benefits of Shifting to CNG for Fuel

NEXT time??? That's a major conceptual error of many "thinking" minds. Always recoverable positions. That's what Adam and Eve thought.

The Benefits of Shifting to CNG for Fuel

And in a sense, they still do............ the WHEN has become a variable of choice ....... delayed gratification ......... putting off the inevitable ........ mananna ........ but, evenually the piper gets paid ... pay me now or pay me later ..... later is the preferred choice, today: well engrained!

The Benefits of Shifting to CNG for Fuel

CHOICES used to have CONSEQUENCES.....

The Benefits of Shifting to CNG for Fuel

paulk - you seem to have neatly omitted the hedge/derivatives/wall street, housing, banking bailouts (Citi, Freddie, Indymac and the rest to come); you know, those where responsible folks are NOT and then want the rest of us (via UNCLE) to cover their irrresponsibility losses....

The Benefits of Shifting to CNG for Fuel

USER 217910:

Go do a heat balance on the electrical power generating plants using coal, gas, oil and then do the same for hydro, solar, wind, geo etc.:

100% btu's in fuel = 40% up stack as waste heat + 30% converted to electricity via HP steam + 30% waste heat in LP steam (which is recovered in co-generation plants).

With no co-generation or downstream use of the LP steam, 70% of the input energy is lost as waste heat.

Solar on the other hand converts 10-25% of the sun's free, readily available, forever energy at basically no waste: it's starting point is the same as the 30% converted to electricity in the above equation.
We've already eliminated 70% of the hydrocarbon energy losses.

If the electrical T&D losses are then as high as 10%, they're 3% of the incoming btu's to a hydrocarbon burning plant. End user losses detract from that as well.

Now you go do a heat balance on a NG powered vehicle to check your "should"; and by the way, compare it to solar generated electircy (or wind) - and then send it to Boone.

The Benefits of Shifting to CNG for Fuel

Whoa Nellie!!!!

1) Nuclear is a solution - China is building 8-12 new plants; US has upwards of 15 being approved currently; don't forget France. Those that understand nuclear know that all reactors have upgraded since 3-mile Island; Chernobyl was not a commercial generating plant.

2) Even tho coal plants still waste 70% of the btu's as waste heat they are utilizing cleaner technology where desired.

3) We have not yet begun to consider hydro storage for peaking, etc., which utilizes the river feeder areas instead of the river's themselves.

4) Buning coal or crude or natural gas (CNG, LPG, etct.,,) results in 70% waste heat - loss of energy - non useful work - sure seems dumb to me. Seventy % of what we import is lost; that's like we need only 30% of the shipments!!!!!! That's like burning 70% of the money!!!!! Get it???

5) Co-generation projects up the conversion effeciency from 30% to 60%, but there is little of that in the US. Most uses are in industry process use not utility generation. No district heating in the US as in Europe.

6) Burning CNG loses 70% of the energy as waste heat, not just more than 40%.
Electrical transmission/distribut... losses are less than 10%.

7) The charge/discharge inefficiencies of battery power are losses indeed, whether from coal, nuclear, gas, cng, solar, wind, tidal. You should treat end-use losses separately from the generation equation. Of course, in solar and wind, etc., we need only convert a little more of the free stuff which is pure gain. There are basically no conversion ineffeciencies (losses) associated with solar, wind, etc.,; only conversion effeciencies (which are GAIN! Not so with burning coal, oil, gas, etc.

8) When we burn CNG in vehicles, we lose 70% of the energy as waste heat; only 30% of the energy is available for useful work. Unless of course you have a waste heat recovery device providing other useful work. Your statements are confusing.

9) When effecient solid state energy conversion devices make electricity directly from waste heat, burning NG in a can (a burner, not an engine) and all the energy becomes electricity, then we will have a super hybrid. That makes sense. And when that's available, I say let's burn biofuels and still leave the gas in the ground. See???

Why would you want to burn any natural source if alternatives provide it freely, forever, readily available??