digitaldorobo

Bail Out Capitalism, Not Detroit

Great, another illogical bible thumper who turns everything into a religious argument.

God and economics?

40,000 children starve to death everyday in the world and your God only steps in to punish?

Nice.


On Nov 21 05:33 PM vs7578 wrote:

> I sincerely believe that God is now punishing USA and corporations
> .
> The evility has been done for last 500 years by the US Governemnt
> and the corporations alike whether it is unethical wars or slavery
> or colonism or mistreating people unfairly or promoting pornography
> or keeping profit above people's rights..
> Remember,the largest profits GM and Ford and many hotel industry
> get are not from a creative product design but from pornography.

Tough Love for Detroit Is Long Overdue

bosun.j:

What the hell are you talking about?

This isn't class warfare. This is simply the case of a union that was too stubborn to realize that their demands could not sustain an industry that made crappy, overpriced cars.

By your logic, everyone who worked on the assembly line would make 100k a year. Then a Ford Focus would cost $80k. How's that for an unsustainable industry?

Put away Marx and pick up a book on manufacturing economics.

On Nov 18 02:02 PM bosun.j wrote:

> This entire let them fail - save them argument boils down to one
> thing.
>
> Breaking the union. Driving all workers into poverty.
>
> Its class warfare at its ugliest. Its the Extremist-Capitalist owning
> class desire to own and control everything. A middle class is too
> much of a problem for the elites.
>
> The middle class cannot be allowed to move above Maslow's lowest
> level on the hierarchy of needs. Those physiological needs of breathing,
> food, water, sex, sleep homeostasis and excretion.
>
> Never let the workers achieve Maslow's second level where security
> of body, of employment, of resources, of health or of property.
>
>
> No, indeed. When those awful workers start to feel safe they start
> wanting things the elites aren't willing to allow them. You know,
> human rights.
>

Tough Love for Detroit Is Long Overdue

John D:

You stated that the Big Three were "blindsided by the skyrocketing fuel prices."

Ummm...didn't they learn their lessons from the past 'skyrocketing' of fuel prices?

Maybe if the Big Three had proper risk management policies, they wouldn't have put most of their eggs in one basket with their gas guzzling SUVs. Seriously, why the hell would any business allow itself to be pegged to something as volatile as oil prices? Truly idiotic.

Such a myopic business model shouldn't be rewarded with public fund bailouts.


On Nov 18 01:41 PM John D wrote:

> Joel ... you seem very high on Honda & Toyota environmentally
> friendly cars - if you look back, that must mean GM was well ahead
> of it's time when they came out with AV1 electric vehicle technology
> in 1990 - and if I remember correctly - North America had ZERO interest
> at the time therefore there was NO market and GM went back to what
> the people wanted. Here in North America everyone loves to jump on
> the bandwagon but have difficulty presenting the facts - I'm quite
> sure that the Asian cars are of good quality - BUT - FACT - they
> don't provide 78 jobs per 2500 cars built here like the Big3 but
> a mere 33 jobs per 2500, so what you are saying is that you would
> risk removing over 50% of the automotive jobs because Honda's &
> Toyota's are PRETTY. With those jobs lost - who is going to pay for
> the financial bailout - if the Asian imports had been regulated to
> an even playing field back in the 90's when the 1st electric car
> was brought out - North America would not be in the SAD shape it
> is in today. The cars companies have been trying to warn about this
> for years but again - no one WAS interested.Obama said it during
> one of his speeches - why do Americans allow Korea to dump hundreds
> of thousands of cars here and we sold a whopping 5000 there.

>
> There was no real problem with the Big 3 - they were all inline with
> they're restructuring efforts, other that they were blindsided by
> the skyrocketing fuel prices (which the North American governments
> AGAIN did ZERO to head off) and the biggest problem being the collapse
> of the financial sector which is preventing people from purchasing
> a house or a car as there is NO CREDIT available - Japanese &
> Korean car companies have more money to burn through (and are doing
> so at the same rate) but you can bet the Asian governments will stand
> by them to insure they're around in the future to get YOUR profits
> and take them home to support THEIR people.

Tough Love for Detroit Is Long Overdue

John D:

I had to shake my head when i read your post; you made little sense, if any.

Why should we prop up a business model that requires more employees to create a product. It is unsustainable if the competition can do a better job (AND MAKE BETTER CARS--NOT JUST 'PRETTY' AS YOU STATE) without the same overhead? I thought capitalism is about survival of the fittest/most adaptable...

By your logic, we should subsidize inefficient corporations with taxpayer dollars. That's socialism. How long should the free money continue?

It is plain and simple---the US auto industry had fought innovation, safety standards, and lower fuel consumption for decades. It failed to adapt due to its greed and inertia. It will die by its own hubris.

The UAW unionized itself out of jobs by its 'us or them' mentality. No one should make $20/hour plus benefits for turning a screwdriver. Also unsustainable.

If America is truly the champion of capitalism, it would let these bloated pigs die a natural, Darwinist death.





On Nov 18 01:41 PM John D wrote:

> Joel ... you seem very high on Honda & Toyota environmentally
> friendly cars - if you look back, that must mean GM was well ahead
> of it's time when they came out with AV1 electric vehicle technology
> in 1990 - and if I remember correctly - North America had ZERO interest
> at the time therefore there was NO market and GM went back to what
> the people wanted. Here in North America everyone loves to jump on
> the bandwagon but have difficulty presenting the facts - I'm quite
> sure that the Asian cars are of good quality - BUT - FACT - they
> don't provide 78 jobs per 2500 cars built here like the Big3 but
> a mere 33 jobs per 2500, so what you are saying is that you would
> risk removing over 50% of the automotive jobs because Honda's &
> Toyota's are PRETTY. With those jobs lost - who is going to pay for
> the financial bailout - if the Asian imports had been regulated to
> an even playing field back in the 90's when the 1st electric car
> was brought out - North America would not be in the SAD shape it
> is in today. The cars companies have been trying to warn about this
> for years but again - no one WAS interested.Obama said it during
> one of his speeches - why do Americans allow Korea to dump hundreds
> of thousands of cars here and we sold a whopping 5000 there.

>
> There was no real problem with the Big 3 - they were all inline with
> they're restructuring efforts, other that they were blindsided by
> the skyrocketing fuel prices (which the North American governments
> AGAIN did ZERO to head off) and the biggest problem being the collapse
> of the financial sector which is preventing people from purchasing
> a house or a car as there is NO CREDIT available - Japanese &
> Korean car companies have more money to burn through (and are doing
> so at the same rate) but you can bet the Asian governments will stand
> by them to insure they're around in the future to get YOUR profits
> and take them home to support THEIR people.