nerfer

Cash-For-Clunkers Reveals Weakness Among Detroit Brands

I'd rather send my money to Japan than to OPEC. (About the same amount of money over the lifetime of a small car, but only one recipient wants to blow us up. And no, we can't drill our own oil to solve the problem, we don't have anywhere near enough of the <$80/barrel stuff.)

I always said I'd buy American when they produced a reasonably priced car that got at least 40 mpg. Finally Ford makes the Fusion hybrid which does essentially that, so next time I'm in the car market, I'll definitely look at Ford. (Their Escape Hybrid isn't bad either).

Chevy Volt Claims 230 Miles Per Gallon in City Driving

market ace - either you're being sarcastic or you don't understand the Volt. When charged, it will go 40 miles on electric power, after that the gas engine needs to run to charge the batteries, but the car continues to run as normal.
The Prius (without aftermarket kits, as sold today) is not a plug-in, so all the power comes from the gas tank, directly or indirectly. A plug-in hybrid like the Volt allows additional energy to be stored from the electric grid, which is more effiicient and reduces our economic dependency on unstable and unfriendly oil producing countries.
The Prius can be converted to be a plug-in for several thousand dollars, and then it can run for many miles on all-electric energy.

The Electric Car Battery Battle

The latest I've heard is that Toyota hasn't narrowed their options yet for batteries in a PHEV. bike45, how do you come up with 1/4 of 1%? Hybrids are now 3% of new car sales (more if they could make more batteries, it's supply limited). Hybrids in general are getting about 40% better mileage than fleet average (high-efficiency hybrids sell the most), so my math shows 1.2% improvement in overall consumption from all new cars sold today. As hybrid sales go up, so does this number.
Yes, it's a small start. But we simply cannot continue the status quo - we absolutely need to switch to hybrids and BEVs and public transportation or we'll be faced with only being able to afford bikes.

The Electric Car Battery Battle

Also Chevron, via their part ownership of Cobasys, has long blocked the use of NiMH for pure electric vehicles, using their NiMH patents they bought up to block the large-format NiMH batteries needed for that type of application, even for companies like Toyota that get their NiMH batteries elsewhere.
Cobasys is apparently for sale though (and having $ problems), see: www.courthousenews.com....
Gee, maybe if they supplied BEVs they would be making more money?? Even a 50-mile range in a reduced-price car would be sufficient for a whole lot of people (I know I'd strongly consider buying such a car), but they think they need the full range of a gas car before anybody will buy it for their commuting needs.

Reasons to Love 3-Digit Oil

sharksm, I agree with your basic points (We shouldn't mandate XOM, BP, etc. to do or not do certain things, though they may do it on their own, and we should invest in alt. energy R&D and production).
But we can't drill our way out of this problem. We simply don't have enough oil in our control (ANWR, off-shore, etc) to raise production enough to lower prices. I'm sure eventually we'll drill there anyway., but let's save it for the real crisis yet to come.
And your original post suggested electric cars are expensive & unrealistic, which I disagree with. We are going to see an explosion of new cars (finally!) in the next 4 years - hybrids, PHEVs, BEVs, due to market forces. CARB, PNGV and other government mandates tried to lead companies here proactively, but it took market reaction to get real movement. Unfortunately American companies were slower to react than others.

Reasons to Love 3-Digit Oil

Stockpikr has a point. Fuel cells in particular are not a magic bullet. But electric cars are more efficient than ICE, they haven't been used because of entrenched beliefs and perception about battery needs. We need to make rational changes when faced with a coming crisis (it isn't here yet, folks!). Electric cars are part of the solution, but not the only part. Unfortunately, Brahm might be more correct than we want to think.
PaulK, even if abiotic oil is true (definitely not a mainstream idea), it would be so hard to find and so far to drill to these ultra-deep sources that oil prices wouldn't be any lower than they are today. Read the above story about Brazil's ultra-deep wells.

Reasons to Love 3-Digit Oil

Sharksm, the energy companies (XOM, CVN, etc) are in the energy business. Their oil supplies are drying up or being taken over by nationalized corporations. They need to come up with new energy sources to stay in business, BP is not promoting itself as 'Beyond Petroleum' for nothing. Get informed.
Electric cars do not need to cost $45K, with mass production they will be equivalent to cars on the market, with a lot less maintenance and repair needed. They can be powered by unused electric capacity at night, with a very minimal increase in CO2 - saving CO2 by reducing (by attrition) the number of inefficient gas guzzlers on the road. An existing ICE vehicle is <30% efficient (converting fuel to motion), electric vehicles are about 90% efficient.
Last point - our own oil supplies will be fully tapped, I'm sure, but why not wait until we need the oil to keep our farms running, no reason to use our own oil now just to keep John Doe driving to the grocery store in his Chevy Tahoe. We don't have enough to keep ourselves powered for long at all, or we would already have done this in the oil embargo of '79.

The Prius Conundrum

Crash Random - Calculating dollars that a Prius will save is easy. I spend $25 to go 400 miles (at March gas prices). My last car had less than half of that gas mileage. I spent a little over $20K to buy each car, that's my comfort level. Add in good resale value for the Prius, and which one do you think will save me hard countable cash?

Tshock, unimpressed - apparently both Iceland and Norway are pushing the hydrogen agenda. I was unaware of Norway's efforts, and if the scope of that surpasses similar efforts (like California's hydrogen highway), but I know Iceland, at least early last year, eventually wants to run all their vehicles on hydrogen.

Lessons from the Toyota Prius for Alt Energy Stocks

My guess as to why Israel uses solar water heaters is because of plentiful solar power, and anything that reduces their reliance on their Islamic co-inhabitors of the mid-east has a good sound to them.
However, we have no problem sending boatloads of money to countries that harbor terrorists. Petroleum is the single largest item on our trade deficit. So we feel free to waste energy, and some even think it's patriotic to run around in huge vehicles that endanger others and can roll-over in a heartbeat.

Lessons from the Toyota Prius for Alt Energy Stocks

I don't think the visibility of your greenness applies at all, or at least in very limited numbers. If you wanted something recognizable as a hybrid, you would've bought the Honda Insight - the first hybrid sold in the U.S. and more distinctive than the Prius which looks like a mini-Aztek. But very few did, and it's no longer sold.
Fewer people take extra measures on their homes because that takes more education and preparation. Most people simply haven't investigated those options. If they do, often they have to fight with the installer/salesperson to get the green options instead of mainstream products. And they're more expensive - you can't insulate a house, replace windows or a furnace for the hybrid "premium" present in a Civic Hybrid or Prius, about $3K or less.

I bought the Prius because I wanted a new car under $25K that got good gas mileage, was reliable, had interior space (it's classed as a mid-size car because of the interior volume, great back seat legroom), and had 4 doors. Since I intend to keep the car for years and years, I wasn't worried about resale value, but that is well above average. MSN lists this as the best overall value for a vehicle under $24K for the 3rd year straight (editorial.autos.msn.co...). Getting double the mileage in my old car was a nice bonus. I didn't care for the styling, would've preferred something nicer, but I've gotten used to it. It's aerodynamic and the hatchback is useful, something I appreciate as an engineer.
(And for the record, I have also reduced the energy costs in my home, which has a much longer payback period, but there's much more to do).

The Prius Conundrum

Correction. Consumer Reports lists Prius as the Greenest car, and it has the highest owner satisfaction rating at 92%, and it's in their list of recommended cars under $25K, but Intellichoice/MSN was the one that said the Prius was the best value, for a car under $24K based on cost of ownership over 5 years, for the 3rd year in a row:
editorial.autos.msn.co...

The Prius Conundrum

unimpressedpragmatist - Wow!
1. CO2 is necessary, but we're at levels not seen for over 600,000 years. We don't need that much. It's a proven greenhouse gas, and it seems very likely our climate will change in ways that will make sustained economic growth difficult, to say the least.
2. Hydrogen is a scam. It's okay in certain situations (spaceflight, submarines, etc.) but not for vehicles. They're experimenting with this in Iceland (not Norway), but there they have abundant geothermal energy and no petroleum. Hydrogen needs to be made somehow, currently that's mostly from natural gas, hardly a green source. Electrolysis is another method, if you have lots of electricity. Fuel cells to power vehicles are still not below 6 digits, then add in difficulties in transporting and storing H2. Much better to skip that whole step of converting electricity to hydrogen back to electricity, and just store energy in modern batteries, run on EVs. That is the real future.

The Prius Conundrum

Some big misconceptions here. A Prius battery lasts the life of the car (several examples of over 250K miles), the main battery is disconnected in the event of an accident, you won't get shocked. More nickel is used every day in chrome and stainless steel than in the NiMH batteries.
The Prius is now #8 for number sold in the U.S. (ahead of ALL Volvos put together, equal to all Subaru sales). It was #1 in vehicle demand (as measured by days on dealer lots) for 30 out of the first 36 months it was on sale. (Somebody needs to get outside Berkeley).
A Corolla is listed as 27/35 mpg, don't expect 40mpg, and doesn't have the same interior space. Real-world Prius results are about 47 mpg, I've averaged 49mpg, some careful drivers are in the 60's.

A Prius is classified as a mid-size car, based on interior space. Looking for a $20-$30K car that will save you money in the long term, the Prius is the best option, according to Consumer Reports (a couple years ago they weren't so sure on that, but the resale value has held up, expenses are low, gas prices have risen and will continue to rise). A Prius has a $2K hybrid premium at best, you can't change your windows or furnace for that kind of money (I know, I've done that too). If you're simply into saving money, buy a ten-year-old Metro, but if you want a new car, buy a Prius. (Honda Civic Hybrid is a close second).

I chose not to send my money to Al Qaeda, and to reduce our single largest item on the trade deficit at the same time. Wasting gas is simply not patriotic, and soon it won't be an option.