Tony C

GM Plan to Stay Viable: Cut, Cut, Cut and Count on the Volt

<<< let's produce thousands of cars with no plans to dispose of the batteries, and call it Green! >>> Bob



Don't you just hate it when reality bites you in the butt?

"Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery."

GM Plan to Stay Viable: Cut, Cut, Cut and Count on the Volt

<<<GM is looking to manufacture the batteries locally in years 2-3 of Volt manufacture.>>&g...

GM is "looking to" do a lot of things. But as it stands now, the battery cells will be imported from Asia. And the Volt's engine will also be imported.
As will the engine for the Cobalt replacement.

Wanna talk about the "All American" Camaro?

GM Plan to Stay Viable: Cut, Cut, Cut and Count on the Volt

<<<How quickly we forget gas being over four dollars a gallon last August.
You still think small cars are only going to cost twenty grand then?. Its when the price of gas skyrockets which it will due to rampant inflation from government spending that the Volt makes economic sense. >>>

I have not forgotten $4/gal gas. What you seem to have forgotten is the math invovled in all this.
GM right now is saying the Volt will cost $40,000. Let's figure its payback. You take your $40,000 and buy the Volt. And lets pretend that all your trips are short ones, so that you actually never use any gasoline at all! And your electricity is free! So other than standard repairs, your Volt will cost you nothing to operate.
I am going to instead buy a gasoline powered Malibu for $20,000. (I put the additional $20,000 that I didn't spend into a CD). We drive the typical 15,000 miles per year, and let's pretend that gasoline is already at your dreaded $4/gal. I'm averaging 30 miles per gallon, so I use 500 gallons of gas per year. At $4 that adds up to $2000 per year in gas.
So if I'm spending $2000 per year on fuel and you are spending nothing, it will still take 10 years of car ownership for you to recover the additional $20,000 you spend to buy your Volt!
Now add in the realities that your Volt is going to consume fuel, your electricity isn't free, gasoline currently isn't at $4, and the $20,000 I didn't spend is earning me interest, and then get back to me about what a great investment the Volt will be.

What's an American Car These Days?

<<<Yeah, at least we had some protection from the cheap, unsafe trucks that Thailand was preparing to dump on the US. Too bad we couldn't get some of that protection on Kia. 10 year warranty? Try and collect on that or even get parts in a reasonable time. Where is our consumer protection there?>>>thad...

If you think import tariffs are the way to prevent unsafe product from reaching the consumer, then I'm done with this dialog.

BTW, the Ford Focus and Cobalt XFE did not evolve from any taxpayer funded research. They are simply a slight tweaking (engine tune and gear ratio) of Detroit's existing compact cars. Both of which are badly outdated and overdue for replacement.

What's an American Car These Days?

<<<This is old news. And the Big 3 did produce many hi mpg vehicles. Where do you think Ford Focus and Chevrolet Cobalt XFE came from? And the Japanese jumped on the band wagon , or tried to, with big SUVs and pickup trucks. And yes, it was foolish for GM to sell it's electric vehicle/battery technology to an oil company and then on to Toyota. So isn't that proof that GM wanted clean and green electrics back in the early 90's? And who bought them? They had to do leases and that's what they got for being foresighted.
Also, the kind of protectionist support that goes on in Japan, Europe, and now especially China isn't near what US companies have benefited from. You folks just don't seem to get it. I guess it's ok to support the troops in dubious military ventures ( no disrespect intended and I am a vet), but when it comes to supporting American business and workers stomp on 'em hard. What an attitude.>>>t...

Yeah, USCAR and PNGV are old news. Tax dollars were funnelled into Detroit to cover thier costs in developing high mileage cars which were supposed to be then launched to production. Detroit took out money, did the development part, showed the concepts, but never produced the cars. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
As for protectionism, please tell us who is the largest selling car brand in China? Hint: it's initials are G and M. And which brands are amongst the top five in Europe? Try Ford and GM.
What country slaps a 25% tariff on any imported truck? Try USA.
Now tell me about protectionism.

GM Plan to Stay Viable: Cut, Cut, Cut and Count on the Volt

The economics for the Volt simply aren't there. Do the math. I'm sorry if this insults all you Detroit flag-wavers, but it's the truth. Even with a $10,000 tax credit (which doesn't yet exist) we are looking at a $30,000 compact car. We can already buy the equivalent gasoline car for under $20,000. If the Volt doesn't use a drop of gasoline in its life, there is still no economic payback to justify it. GM had better hope a lot of people are eager to cut their carbon footprint.
BTW, the Volt's battery cells will be imported from China.

What's an American Car These Days?

<<< All one needs to do is to look at what other countries are and have been doing for their businesses, people, and banks, not just now, but for YEARS. . In Japan, China, and especially Germany and other European countries the governments have been subsidizing their car makers for years. Since last Fall, Germany has been giving it's citizens a cash incentive to buy GERMAN made cars such as the now popular Opel Agila.
>>>

And the US government does the same for our auto industry. Try doing some research on USCAR and PNGV. These were government research projects aimed at funneling tax money directly into the Detroit auto makers (Japanese companies need not apply). The goal was to get them to produce high mileage cars. Ford, GM and Chrysler all produced the required concept car, cashed our check, and went back to building SUVs.
Toyota had wanted in, but once shuned by us, they went home and developed their hybrid drive system (which had started as a US concept!).

And I hope you realize that Germans buying an Opel benefits an American corporation, not a German one.

What's an American Car These Days?

<<<Look under the hood, if the engine is not an American one then the value add came from somewhere else. Actually, don't bother. If it gets bad gas mileage it's American. If it gets good gas mileage or is battery driven it's not.
>>>

Far from true. Many of the worst mileage vehicles in the EPA's list are foreign brands. And on a car-for-car basis, Detroit typically beats the Japanese brands in mileage (not to say they are the better car). Japan's pickups all get poorer mileage than do Detroit's.
Since Toyota introduced the Prius to the US market, its CAFE (fleet average mileage) numbers have DECREASED. Why? Because Toyota sold far more guzzling trucks than it did hybrids. It just doesn't publicize those facts.

GM’s Lutz to Say Goodbye: Strong Advocate for Volt

Lutz is a great character study. There is a good book to be had about his life. Love him or hate him, he may be one of the last of his breed: a recognizable face in a sea of commitees, with the strength to will a project production on his personality alone. I often didn't agree with his positions, but I'll miss him.

Is Chrysler Viable?

Fiat's new 500 has been a smash hit throughout Europe, and would do well in the US with those seeking a city car, IMO.

Is Chrysler Viable?

Note that Chrysler's minivans are no longer even produced in the US, they are imported. As is it's famous Hemi engine. And its Ram pickup has the lowest domestic content of any major pickup in the US.

What's an American Car These Days?

Detfan, that "Det" doesn't stand for Detroit by any chance, does it? It sure sounds that way.
If you actually believe that the cars from Detroit are what they always have been, then you must not work in the industry. The imported content in Detroit's cars has been raising steadily for decades now, and as written, many of them have a lower domestic content than do import branded cars. And since the former big 3 no longer make profits, you can't argue that it's all about where the profits go. There are none!
GM recently announced its "Centers for Excellence," being the GM facilities around the world that will develop its future vehicles. These involve the high paying, highly technical engineering skills that we should seek to keep in the US. While GM's trucks will continue to be developed here, NONE of its future car platforms will be designed or developed in the USA.
Ford's plan for the future? Move production of European developed cars to North America. We retain some assembly line work, but again the skilled jobs will be in Europe.
Chrysler's future? Sell itself to the Italians.

Obama and Higher Fuel Efficiency Standards

kcr, don't forget that while GM and Ford were racing to build ever-bigger SUVs, Toyota and Nissan were right there with them. Not only did both of those Japanese companies build SUVs as big as anyone's, they also launched huge pickup truck production which is now, or will soon be, shut down.
The bad calls aren't limited to Detroit.

Obama and Higher Fuel Efficiency Standards

TRS, building what the public will buy has a nice ring to it, but fails in the real light. First, the public rarely knows what it wants, as they don't stay abreast of new developments. So what might be possible will be unknown to them as they continue to buy what they know: the same old thing.
Did the public know in 1965 that it was possible to remove 95% of the pollution from a car's exhaust? No, nor did they demand it. And had they heard talk to that effect, they would also have heard the auto industry telling them it was impossible. The Feds demanded it, the industry reluctantly delivered, and now the people love it.
The same argument can be made for safety upgrades.
I would have thought that the diehard "market is always right" attitude would have been killed by now, given the economy of the last year.

Chrysler Deal: Fiasco for Fiat?

A basic question should be will Americans buy Fiats, which they remember if at all as being poor quality, when built by a company (Chrysler) with a track record of building sub-standard cars.