pitchingpennies

Strong Housing Data Fail Yet Again to Boost the Market

Rdoc- You are spot on. The pain, in dollar scale format, is just being reflected as it moves up the socio-economic ladder.

Incompetent Bank Regulation Hits Customers Hard

H2KOLOB - I feel your pain. And KD, thanks for calling for reform!

US Bank and the rest of their ilk heavily market college towns and market directly on college campus locations. National Banks with branches in many states appear advantageous to parents in that they can use the same bank for their kids that go away to school and can transfer money to them easily. I really think they count on the kids overdrafting, and their parents paying the freight as a huge profit center in their business plans.

KD and Posters are absolutely correct that to force the banks to not honor debit ATM and Terminal transactions without sufficient funds solves a huge portion of this nefarious banking practice.

I'm going to paste below an edited memo from my son, a 22 year old college student, who noticed overdraft fees appearing on his US Bank college checking account online and KNEW WITH CERTAINTY that he had not overdrawn his acount. The genesis was a mistaken debit and subsequent immediate voided terminal sale from a merchant. The only transaction my son was aware of was the $18.34 debit purchase for which he signed.

The moral of the story really turned out to be: If you won't let US Bank steal your money, they don't want you as a customer. I guess I shouldn't be amazed at anything any more. And btw, kudos to John X for not taking US Bank's bullshit! He even got his last $8.00 back. His narrative follows:

7/7/2009
Approximately 2:00 PM,
-Arrived at The X Bar and Grill. John X spoke with the owner and received a copy of 3 receipts. #1 Invoice 000058, Invoice #1 was the original receipt entered by mistake for a total of $515.00. #2 Invoice 000058, Invoice #2 is the Visa Void Sale, negating the charge of $515.00. This sale was voided within 8 seconds. #3 Invoice 000059, Invoice #3 is the actual debit document entered with John X’s handwriting and Signature for $18.34.

The owner told John X to take the copies of the receipts to the bank and take care of the issue himself. Identifying logical and damning evidence that there was clerical error on the banks part, John X obliged to take care of the issue minus the aid of the owner of the X Bar and Grill.

Approximately 2:30 PM
-I Arrived at US Bank, Any Ville North. I Presented to Megan X the copied receipts. She notified me at this point that the $515.00 was credited back to my account. She then told me $236.50 in fees was still owed to US Bank. These fees were an effect of the -$515.00, charged mistakenly to the account. Prior to the charge from Invoice #1 my account was NOT in the negative column. She refused to remove the overdraft fees even in the event of seeing the 3 invoices. Megan X told me the fees wouldn’t be removed unless she spoke to the owner of The X Bar and Grill regarding the issue. We attempted to telephone the merchant from the bank. There was no response. She told me it was not US Bank’s problem.

Approximately 3:15 PM
-I returned to The X Bar and Grill to speak with the owner of the establishment. He was on the phone with Megan X when I approached him. He wouldn’t tell me what was said between him and Megan X at the bank. But he did tell me he refused to pay the overdraft and negative balance fees. The owner also explained to me that this was not his problem; it was the bank’s problem. I asked him to come to US Bank with me to help me clear up the fees. He refused to aid me in getting the bank to comply. (There was a young man present for our conversation, an employee of The X Bar and Grill) It should be noted that Megan X and The Owner of the Palms both told me they have a personal friendship with one another.

Approximately 3:45 PM
-I returned to US Bank. Megan X asked me what the Owner of the palms said. I replied to Megan X by asking her, “what did PT say to you?” (PT is the nickname of the Owner of The X Bar and Grill) At this point Ms. X attempted to enter an “I asked you first” engagement. At this point, aside from Ms. X’s condescending behavior towards me; she was attempting to play ambiguity games with me. The phrase “I asked you first” is typically a good indication someone is hiding information. From my perspective, Ms. X was enjoying the sport of tormenting me. At this point Ms X threatened to ask me to leave the bank. After further discussion Megan X agreed to remove the fees, pending the approval of her regional manager. After Ms. Johnson discussed the matter with her Regional Manager, he instructed her to remove only the amount of fees to remove John X’s checking account from the negative. At this point in time my account was -$95.73. To my knowledge, the regional manager instructed his subordinate to remove no more that $100.00 in fees from my account. Again, the actual total of fees at this point is $236.50. I objected to the compromise and asked Ms. X for the telephone number of her Regional Manager, his name is Sam. He is based at a US Bank in St. Joseph, MO. The phone call between the regional manager and I took place at 4:01PM and lasted for 18 minutes and 45 seconds. (Per record of my cell phone history) I explained to him that I simply wanted "My Money" that US Bank wrongfully charged me, credited back to my account. Sam explained to me that the damage was done. He in fact used an analogy at this point that swiping a debit card is exactly like cutting someone’s arm with a blade or a knife. He explained to me that the “cut” had already been made, and it was unfixable. After further discussion with Sam, he gave me an ambiguous “theoretical offer” to reimburse the total amount of the fees under the condition US Bank terminate my account immediately. There was much ambiguity in his loaded theoretical offer, so I chose to move the discussion in another direction at this point. After a few more minutes of heated debate and my mentioning an attorney, Sam gave me the offer to reimburse the total $236.50 in the future present tense and I confirmed that he used the word “Will” as opposed to “Might and Maybe.” (Might and maybe were the tenses used in his theoretical offer) The offer was under the condition that US Bank terminates my account immediately. I accepted the offer of full fee reimbursement and the condition that my account be terminated. No figures were discussed with Sam during the entire discussion; he simply agreed to remove all fees due to the situation. I returned to Megan X to complete our agreement. She at this point told me that an additional $8.00 dollar fee was going to be charged to my account that night, but proceeded to tell me “I’ll take care of that though.” Seconds later she returned to the counter and totaled the amount that US Bank was going to offer me. She subtracted the $8.00 from my account anyways, after seconds earlier saying she would “take care if it.” When I confronted Ms. X about contradicting herself, she proceeded to tell me “I’ll take care of it” does not mean she would remove the charge. Seth X was a witness to the discussion Ms. X and I had. At this point when I accused her and US Bank of stealing another $8.00 dollars from me, she threatened to call Public Safety authorities to have me removed from the building. I would like to state that my voice was never raised at any point during my encounter with Ms. X. However, she at this point was yelling at me and had been for several sentences. I felt physically threatened and verbally assaulted. For fear of my physical safety and mental well being, I proceeded to leave the bank. A Check for the total of $132.77 is supposed to be waiting for me at the bank on the morning of July 8th, 2009.

Statement history from 07/07/2009 at 14:28:08 has John X’s account standing at -$95.77. $236.50 was credited to the account making the balance $140.77. Minus the addition $8.00 makes the final amount $132.77.

Housing: How Big Is the Shadow Inventory?

Tom,

Not an urban legend. Contolled release of fannie/freddie foreclosures to the listing market is confirmed directly by the owner of a title company here.

-Lassez les bon temp roulet!

Case-Shiller Home Prices Rise in May, But Don't Read Too Much into This

Re:Chart # 1

Very nice, but what chance in hell does a color blind guy have?

House Prices: Two Views

Out of curiosity, apply the following effects to the demographics:

5% chronically credit impaired under any lending guidelines, and an additional 10%?, 15%?, 20%?, 25%? newly credit impaired by the recession for up to 7 years by a foreclosure, and 10 years by a bankruptcy.

Any one have a guess/prediction?

A Solution to the Housing Debacle

Which one of the three gents on the wanted posters above actually penned this drivel?

A Letter to Jamie Dimon

I'll ask the same question of Jamie Dimon, paragon of "Honest Abedness" and Card Carrying ABA Member "Good Banker":

"What university can I go to where I can learn to distill and filter
bullshit, thereby creating absolute, pure bullshit?"

From a previous SA posting:
"Just look at the current strategy of the American Bankers’ Association.

Edward L. Yingling is justifiably proud of his organization’s position as one of the country’s most powerful lobbies.

His testimony (.pdf) to Congress on the potential new Consumer Financial Protection Agency plainly shows where his group stands. The most revealing quote, highlighted in the ABA’s own press release, reads:

"It is now widely understood that the current economic situation originated primarily in the largely unregulated non-bank sector,” he said. “Banks watched as mortgage brokers and others made loans to consumers that a good banker just would not make and they now face the prospect of another burdensome layer of regulation aimed primarily at their less-regulated or unregulated competitors. It is simply unfair to inflict another burden on these banks that had nothing to do with the problems that were created." = Pure Bullshit

Goldman Sachs: No Global Financial Espionage Story Here

I don't see what the fuss is all about.

Wasn't all this thoroughly explained in the GS December 2008 month-end financial statements?

Bankers Are the Wagging Tail of the Sick Dog

Re: ABA press release

What university can I go to where I can learn to distill and filter bullshit, thereby creating absolute, pure bullshit?

Plan Orange for Mortgages: Immolate the Crisis

By the way Michael, I like your Plan Orange as well.

Its kind of like partially bulldozing the debt without having to actually bulldoze the properties.

Plan Orange for Mortgages: Immolate the Crisis

20 Dollar,

Obviously you're a real estate hotshot and still believe the asset class is a winner. I also note that some of your previous comments note that the Banks were taking away your credit lines. Biz is always great when you are liquid, although you must be somewhat les liquid from these actrions by your Bankers. Good to hear your local bankers (small b) are still around to support your efforts. I hope you have a big stack in reserve, congtratulations on your success of 25 years.

You do however need to realize that a note secured by real estate is a contract. There is nothing moral or immoral about it. The terms may be unconscionable or not, but there are options and remedies written into the document. Both parties have options. As to your, and others, rants about "irresposible homeowners" you really need to get off your moralistic high-horse. Markets and situations change, which has been more than obvious over the last several years. Both parties, Lenders and Homeowners, entered into to these contracts to benefit themselves economically, so your moral obligation argument does not hold water. Now, if you were personally lending to your son, I might agree with your feeling of betrayal.

Nonetheless, I wish for you that your real estate appreciates, your access to credit remains plentiful, and that your stack never gets too short to experience a less than blissful night's sleep.

Banks' Loss Reserves Can't Keep Pace with Troubled Loans

Darius -
Have you ever actually seen a home stopped in the construction phase by a default and foreclosure? It gets really ugly - really fast! It will usually be stripped and weatherbeaten before the Trustee's Sale date. To rehab and finish your 100M home will ususally take 130M plus costs of sale.

Some Odd Stats in Pending Home Sales

The under 200K market is active. Market makeup?, Investors/Speculators and First Time Homebuyers.

The Investors/Speculators are supposed to know what they are doing, but again, many are not pro's, just folks who have been up late watching cable Real Estate Gurus selling CD's.

The FTHB's? Again, the most vulnerable economically, the least experienced, the "Hopeful", being allowed to purchase with zero down (thanks to the 8K tax credit monetized in advance) and used for down payment and closing costs.

Tell me what is different in this methodology now, than what we were doing before? Isn't this what supposedly got us here in the first place? When the government runs out of buyers do they just expand the customer universe like subprime lenders and the MBS/CDO freaks by loosening the guidelines?

Just sayin'

The Sad Truth About Housing Data

No seems to be talking about the shadow inventory of homes that are still vulnerable to "rational default". Very difficult personal decisions are being made out there. As jobs/businesses continue to be lost, and 401K/savings are being depleted, I believe there is a large bolus of 300K plus properties that will enter the delinquent/modification attempt/foreclosure pipeline. Since modification programs are again proving to be too little too late, they really just amount to a delay in foreclosure velocity.

High Housing Affordability, Low Mortgage Rates Boost Pending Real Estate Sales

Doug F. has it right. 60 to 90 days to process loans, appraisals coming in low, rate whipsaw to 5.5 plus, refiers waiting for 4.5 clogging the system and not closing now, unlocked purchaser's rates back up well over 5%. Pending....Pending.......

Please pass the crack pipe Mr. Yun.