mus302

Pilgrim's Pride Files Chapter 11: Not a Bailout in Sight

The company has listed several reasons for the situation that they are in including high feed costs, low chicken prices, weak chicken demand, and losses due to significant negative impact of hedged grain positions. And as you mention the debt load from buying Gold Kist. How low would corn prices have to be to overcome those kinds of problems?

I know it is popular these days to blame everything on ethanol but if you ask me the way that ethanol could be at fault is if that was what they were drinking when they made the decisions to incur so much debt and to buy corn when it was at it's peak.

Blood from a Stone and Oil from Shale

"The water requirements may be as low as three barrels of water for each barrel of oil, which compared to ethanol’s huge water requirements (dozens or even hundreds of barrels) seems pretty cheap, environmentally."

Ethanol only requires that much water if you include the amount of water that falls as rainfall.

Corn Ethanol Can Never Replace Meaningful Quantities of Motor Fuel

31456 said...

"But speaking of propaganda, do you merely "overlook" or don't you know that high protein distiller's grain you tout cannot be fed and cannot be used as a complete ration to feed animals?"

Do you know of any animal that can live completely on any one single feed ration? Not even corn is fed 100%.

"Further, consider that for every bushel of distiller's grain a beef animal will then also require about 2 bu of other whole grain-based components. Thus as a means of disposal of this so-called "co-product", the more distiller's grain that is shunted into the livestock feedlots, the more whole grain is required to help dispose of it in the feedlot."

Since most beef rations include corn, hay and soybean meal does that mean that feeding corn requires these other ingredients to get rid of it?

"But fear not, maybe we can import grain from South America to feed out livestock on the "co-product" if the biofuel industry really takes off."

You do realize that we export more corn than any other country in the world produces except China. We also are the number 2 exporter of soybeans, behind Brazil and we export 50% of the wheat that we grow.

Further, if you look at the facts on corn production you realize that in 2007 because of the increased acreage devoted to corn there was more corn leftover after ethanol was produced than the entire corn harvest in 2006.

"The math is pretty simple: (1 bu distillers grain requires 2 bu of other grains for disposal). This suggests there's a fundamental problem here biofuels hypesters probably would just as soon not discuss."

Using your logic then, please tell us all how many btus are required to dispose of the coproducts of gasoline production. You know the distillates (diesel, home heating oil, jet fuel), the heavier oils that get made into lubricating oils, and the tars that go into road construction.

"Oh there's one more rub about disposal of 'co-product" distiller's grain: The stuff is wet and warm and so it is readily susceptible to rapid spoilage unless it is used very locally. Otherwise it must be shipped in a partially dry or fully dried form. Intersetingly most of the nation's feedlots are now far distant from the the locations of Midwestern ethanol plants. So now we're into either moving the feedlots or the 'co-product"....."

A recent UNL study was just released that shows that mixing dry materials makes it possible to store wet distillers grains.

www.cattlenetwork.com/...

"Guess maybe what constitutes "propaganda" largely depends upon who is feeding at the trough, eh?"

It is funny that you use the word propaganda since the fact that you to suggest that we will become grain importer if ethanol production continues. You also make a big deal about the energy associated with drying and transporting distillers grains even though such things are taken into consideration in energy balance studies. And you try to portray distillers grains as a waste product when clearly it has feed value.

So basically you play on fears and use misconceptions in an attempt to sway perception. Isn't that propaganda?

Corn Ethanol Can Never Replace Meaningful Quantities of Motor Fuel

First off you are about 10% off on the amount of gasoline consumed last year. The number that the EIA provides for Finished Motor Gasoline contains ethanol, so you have to subtract that out. The math that I have done shows

And why are you adding in diesel consumption? Has anybody ever suggested that ethanol would replace diesel?

You yourself said that ethanol isn't a very good replacement for distillates. Then why compare ethanol to distillate usage instead of biodiesel?

I notice that when you say that ethanol could only replace 3-4% after taking out all energy related inputs, you are assuming that no energy is needed to create gasoline. The amount of energy replaced would be higher than what you state since if you replace a gallon of gallon you eliminate the energy needed to produce it.

And as far as no food being left afterwards, there would still be distillers grains left.