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Battery Investing for Beginners, Part 2

John:

Thanks again for inciting this excellent forum for discussion on various battery (storage) solutions. Your many contributors bring a useful and diverse experiences to the discussion along with many good insights. Having used a number of various battery technologies over many years for small capacity but demanding applications, I appreciate the auto vehicle problems where real costs are a big part of the equation (unlike many research applications). A relevant question is how much will these developments (or lack thereof) affect our economy and future? The question of natural resources is very interesting, but perhaps less than critical because we have often overcome the difficulty of providing for external resource needs. The cold war mentality promoted the concept that we must become self sufficient in everything, but it isn't always necessary for successful production of a product in demand worldwide.

How PHEVs and EVs Will Sabotage America's Drive for Energy Independence

John:

First class article and good analysis. Unfortunately you also bring to the forefront the problems associated with technical solutions that are driven by short term political considerations to the exclusion of solid long term science. If the objective is to substantially reduce our use of imported oil (to reduce our trade deficit) then natural gas fueled vehicles are the obvious near term solution. All the technology now exists and could be combined with various hybrid technologies to further reduce consumption.

The other issue not often discussed is the cost of electrical energy required to supply PHEV and EV's. Those rates vary by area and are rising along with the general energy complex. In order to support a large number of PHEV and EV's serious electrical grid improvements are needed that entail large costs.

www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/...

White House Report: GM Volt Is Not Ready for Prime Time

John: I'm very surprised by your comment that "research never fails and transition to manufacturing rarely succeeds". I have many years experience in research at a leading organization and we often failed. While we made many experimental and prototype devices we never produced manufactured quantities so perhaps my criteria is different from yours. Nevertheless research has many unknowns (if it is truly research) and many unexpected results occur (both positive and negative) and one must learn from the failures to advance to success. Beating up on failures is a huge error because many failures lead to success once the failure is understood.

Lithium Unicorns and Alternative Energy Storage

John, Thanks for all your very useful dialog and information. I had only seen a brief write up on the CSIRO development without any specific data, but holding out the promise for long life and lower cost compared to NiMH cells now used in hybrids. I think your thoughts on the importance of lower cost is right on target as it has always been in most civil earth bound applications. If the claimed cost and performance goals are achieved it would seem to be a good candidate for future hybrid applications.

I've used lead-acid batteries of many types over the years and found them to be good solutions for most applications and very cost effective. They often require some special care to realize the maximum performance, but usually deliver. I agree that there is excellent potential for further development and perhaps much will be attained by more R&D.

Lithium Unicorns and Alternative Energy Storage

Lots of interesting points on batteries, there chemistry and uses. I disagree with the amount of gold in the ocean and figure the actual number is more like 25 kg/cubic mile (statue mile). Source "The Oceans" by Sverdrup Johnson and Fleming.

What future does the super capacitor/lead acid battery development in Australia hold for hybrid vehicles?