ART005

Rapid Transition to Grid Enabled Vehicles Not Possible or Desirable

Nakedjaybird, are the transportation systems you list using battery powered elec. travel? If not, they have no relevance to this discussion. Electric subways are used all over the world, a perfect match of need and technology.

Rapid Transition to Grid Enabled Vehicles Not Possible or Desirable

GhostOfSpec: you completely miss the point. No one on these posts has ever said someone shouldn't buy an EV. The media blitz is that EVs equitably hold their own vs. IC, sign up for yours now! The expose of the truth in these threads is that isn't true! And it is so far away that the extensive subsidized role out is irresponsible.

You use the word "subsidy" generically. What percent of subsidy meets your approval and how much is too much? Should tax payers smart enough to not be tricked into EV be forced to subsidize those that are? It's the same moral hazard issue persistant in housing, banking, investing, and other unproductive technologies like residential grid-tie PV. The list of foolish efforts that fall flat on their face at tax payer expense is endless.....

There are many options that consumers can choose to achieve some of your listed benefits:
Light weight EV (scooters)
Geothermal heat pump vs. propane or elec.
Solar water heaters
New home insulation methods
Natural gas HEV

Where is the media propaganda blitz for the truly equitable assets?

Rapid Transition to Grid Enabled Vehicles Not Possible or Desirable

John, replying to jerrydd is a burden to you but it cuts right to the misleading propaganda that is selling the illusion in full service EV. Such as the price of a Leaf is about the same as a $20,000 IC car, oh but that doesn't include the $10,000?? battery. Consumers will just make a monthly lease (mortgage?) payment on the battery ~$100 + elec. costs. At $2.50/gal, $100/mo will power a 35 mpg IC car 1400 miles/mo. Considerably more miles than anyone is going to be able to drive a 100 mile/charge, 6 hrs to charge Leaf. Plus you still have to pay for the elec. and the charging equip.

The EV propaganda scheme is everyone should help subsidize the dream, it's a great idea until all the facts are put on the table. The same nonsense applies to Residential Grid-Tie Solar PV (elec.)

Rapid Transition to Grid Enabled Vehicles Not Possible or Desirable

John, your reply to User450850 regarding price reduction eludes to but I think just misses addressing weight impact of batteries towards future price reduction. My thought that I'd like your comment on is: Younger consumers are used to $100 items eventually cost $10 and think the gov can accellerate that curve for "Green Technology." The small items that generation relates to weigh 1 or 2 lbs (cell phones, portable CD, Ipod, etc.) Maybe the cost of manufacturing goes from $95 to $5 (miracle of technology) but the cost of materials stays at $5 but seems insignificant. Battery technology in many chemistries is quite advanced (commodity) while the weight of the materials presents a significant high barrier to further price reductions. What is your opinion on different chemistry battery material costs vs. manufacturing costs?

Rapid Transition to Grid Enabled Vehicles Not Possible or Desirable

John, I think your best article yet! The valuable well you draw from just keeps getting deeper and better. I wish this article was read on the evening news every night until people get it. There are exciting dreams that are achievable and valuable and there are exciting dreams that are unachievable and somewhat destructive. Capitalism tries to sort them out, socialism pretends no difference.

As you demonstrate productive difference between HEV and PHEV, my pet peeve is the similar productive difference between solar heat (hot water) and solar PV.

We appreciate your work, thank you.

Why Advanced Lead-Acid Batteries Will Dominate HEV Markets

Sorry John, I was addressing you, not Jack.

Why Advanced Lead-Acid Batteries Will Dominate HEV Markets

Jack, thank you for the continuing flow of information. I think the market for PHEV and PEVs is smaller than the world perceives. Maybe could be summed up as "it's a great idea for everyone else to save gas and reduce emissions but I need the randge and flexibility of a full HEV."

For a typical 15,000 mile/yr driver using $2.50/gal gas getting 40 mpg with readily available technology and using 5% cost of money, each 5 mpg improvement has to cost less than $2300 and that's with no additional fuel costs like $0.11/kWhr elec. charging. So the jump from a 40 mpg Corolla at $16,000 to a $21,000 Prius getting 50 mpg is really break even.

I see the suburban garage of the near future having an HEV Prius with hitch, small 300 lbs utility (1500 lbs capacity) trailer for weekend runs to the home improvement center, and a PEV scooter for in town commuting. Kind of a 1.5 vehicle household with the partial flexibility of an SUV.