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  • Tuesday's Herbalife Reports Miss Major Points [View article]
    Im starting to think the shorts are as delusional as the longs.

    Both side think everything that happens means someone is out to get them.

    I have no position. I think HLF is a scam that should be shut down or at the very least needs severe restrictions regarding the lies distributors tell.

    I also think any resolution could take years and might end up with some kind of settlement which doesn't kill company.

    That means there may be trading opportunities for both sides.

    I have no position. I just think its wrong to mislead the way most MLMs do.

    Take away the fraudulent business opportunity and sales fall 80% and the stock more.
    Apr 16 02:01 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Regulators Pile On Herbalife And Capital Managers Should Re-Evaluate Their Positions In The Company [View article]
    Are you kidding ?

    98% will gain nothing.
    Apr 15 02:44 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Regulators Pile On Herbalife And Capital Managers Should Re-Evaluate Their Positions In The Company [View article]
    HLF still has $5+ billion marketcap.

    So the bears aren't exactly winning much.

    I continue to fear that the shorts, who I agree with, underestimate the time it will take for anything to happen. And also underestimate what exactly will happen.

    It could be as easy as a fine and some changes which might hamper the lies distributers tell.

    As much as I wish they would shut this scam of a company down, more likely its going to end up in some kind of settlement and HLF gets off way too easy.

    In that case, who knows, maybe the marketcap can remain in the billions.
    Apr 15 01:53 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Did Herbalife Executives Conspire To Commit Mail Fraud? [View article]
    Its a concern because a LOT of people are being "duped" by HLF each day.

    There is no question in my mind the company could not survive without the fraud.
    Apr 14 04:40 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Did Herbalife Executives Conspire To Commit Mail Fraud? [View article]
    My concern is it will take the feds years to get enough to feel confident taking any action here.

    I expect civil more than criminal although I do think the entire business model is based on deception.

    Honestly, without Ichans vendetta, wouldn't the stock be about $20 right now ?

    I think the market knows its going to take years for anything meaningful to happen here. Otherwise it wouldn't have a how many billion dollar marketcap.
    Apr 14 03:46 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Steel Excel - Shell Company Turning Into Profitable Business [View article]
    2 of their 6 sports investments were losers. Not a lot of money but a 33% failure rate is not good.

    Date acquired



    Jun 2011

    Baseball Heaven


    Aug 2011

    75% of The Show*


    Nov 2012

    20% of Cross Fit


    Jan 2013

    45% of Ruckus Sports*


    Jan 2013

    40% of Again Faster


    Jun 2013

    80% of UK Elite Soccer


    *The Show and Ruckus were shut down, after they did not meet operational and financial expectations.
    Apr 14 03:31 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • The Criminal Dismantling Of Herbalife Begins As Shorts Likely To Laugh Last [View article]
    If the criminal investigations are related to lead generation type fraud, HLF can kind of distance itself from that. "We didn't do that and we don't advocate it" would be their response. Arresting some of their lead generation independent distributors isn't going to kill the company. That's going to have to come from the FTC. And hopefully, in time, they will be able to shut down the massive deception involved with the MLMs like HLF. Nobody joins to get a discount on a product. They join so they can get filthy rich sitting on their duffs. Yet HLF requires them to buy a business opportunity kit just to get a measly 25% discount on their shake mix. The math just doesn't add up. How much freaking shake mix are you going to buy that will cover your $69 sign up fee ? And why do they need all these big pep rallies if most people aren't in it for the big money ? Their entire business model is a scam. Its designed to steal from people who are too stupid to know any better. Honesty, payday loan lenders are cleaner than HLF by a wide margin. Take away the fraud inherent in the business model and sales drop 80%. The company loses money and the stock goes down 90%+. And the 78 year old who only got involved because he hates Ackman loses billions. Just as he should for making such an irresponsible nonsensical wager.

    (repost, post was removed because someone doesn't like the truth)
    Apr 13 10:56 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Herbalife: Why Its Criminal Probe Response Is Worthless And Why You Should Worry [View article]
    It doesnt seem odd to me. The FBI doesnt warn criminals they are investigating them.

    I dont know if a "raid" is in the cards. To me, they dont need anything from HLF to prove this is a business opportunity fraud.

    I dont know how this will play out but I find it highly unlikely they will shut it down overnight and also unlikely that any of HLFs top officers are going to be taken away in handcuffs.

    I expect something more a cease & desist order that puts the burden of proof on HLF to prove their business is not a scam.

    I also find the timing of this & that energy drink company changing their scheme just days before this news. Like they knew what was coming.

    The bottom line is with HLF anyone who pays $69 and buys some shake mix can automatically be a "mentor" and advise their underlyings to beg, borrow & steal to become a mover & a shaker & then the big money will roll it. So they say.

    Maybe 20/20 sends someone deep undercover & does everything their upline tells them to do. Even though most of them are not making any real money either.

    The real crime is that this has been allowed to go on for so long unchecked for the most part.
    Apr 12 10:36 AM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Herbalife: He Who Laughs Last, Laughs Best [View article]
    Saying Icahn knows the company much better than Bill Ackman is a hoot.

    Ichan doesnt know the company better than me or a brand new sucker that just shelled out $79 to overpay sales tax on shake mix.

    This criminal scheme is finally being investigated by law enforcement. Hopefully they shut the scam down.

    In any event, Im sure the upcoming TV show will expose this sham to many unsuspecting potential marks.

    I have no position in HLF. I just want it shut down because its the right thing to do.
    Apr 12 05:40 AM | 6 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Herbalife plunges on DOJ/FBI probe report [View news story]
    Its a WHOLE new ballgame with 20/20 AND a criminal investigation.

    Watch out for $20 or less.
    Apr 11 04:33 PM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • A Discounted Infrastructure Fund With A 6.75% Yield [View article]
    Yeah UTF fees are just too darn high. I will look at your suggestions.
    Apr 10 07:03 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Why The Chances Of The Government Shutting Down Herbalife Are Zero [View article]
    They don't have to shut it down for the stock to go significantly lower.

    Just stop the deception about the fake business opportunity.

    Make them all tell it like it is. (Similar products are sold elsewhere for less, the person touting HLF to you is doing it with the hope of making money and chances are 90%+ that neither of you will make a dime at it)

    The entire industry needs regulation. And that's coming from someone who generally favors less regulation.

    When it comes to MLMs & Payday Lenders & title loan lenders, somebody needs to protect the morons from themselves.

    Without deception, HLF dies, sales fall & the company dies a slow death. The products wont support a profitable company. Take away the deception and the stock could easily go down 80%.

    And maybe it ends up on store shelves for those who still believe "the products" are anything special.
    Apr 9 11:48 AM | 4 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • The FTC Will End Herbalife As We Know It [View article]
    Disagree. HLF is a deception waiting to scam more & more people.

    I say TOTALLY SEPARATE the products from the supposed business opportunity at the very least.

    Without LIES about easily making $10k per month with no education or experience, 75%+ would not sign up.

    And how about a sams club like guarantee ? Anytime, for anything, 100% money back guarantee.

    I bought some trash bags that I assumed were like the last ones I bought. They were much cheaper. I dilly dallied, lost my receipt and took them back 3 months later after having used a few of them. No problem, 100% of my money back. And in fact, they had new better ones on the shelves because others didn't like the cheaper ones I guess.

    HLF had 3 bottom layers of know nothing idiot get rich seekers teaching others and none of them are making any money.
    Apr 7 04:23 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • The FTC Will End Herbalife As We Know It [View article]
    I really don't see them shutting any of the big boys down. The issue seems to be the time it takes for the FTC to figure out what it will limit and how it can be limited and all the while, the scam continues unabated.

    I fully expect at least a blow to HLFs knee-caps in the end, it wont feel good but they wont get the death penalty. They will just have to pay more legal fees to device more ways around whatever new rules the FTC comes up with to limit the lies & BS.

    Without the fake business opportunity, HLF really doesn't have anything but a bunch of get rich quick seekers & massively overpriced products that most people don't need. They need to get off their duffs & eat less.

    My concern is the most the FTC will do will be to slow down their growth for a couple of years and then HLF will just get right back to the basics of scamming people while pretending to be legit.

    So, maybe it doesn't go below $40 ?

    No position and I hope Im wrong and they shutter it & confiscate its assets.

    But that's just not likely to happen.
    Apr 6 03:51 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • 4 Million Reasons Herbalife Is A Money Transfer Scheme [View article]
    Except the commentary was put out by the SEC.

    They, like me, and William Keep have no position either way.
    Apr 4 06:34 PM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment