Niner

GM Proves There Is an Alternative to Bailouts

Read the stories not the headlines. GM worker make almost exactly what a Toyota worker makes.

The big difference is unfunded pension liabilities. GM having been in business in the US longer that Toyota has more retirees.


On Dec 23 11:50 AM magnusma wrote:

> "If the Big Three had built truly competitive cars (in terms of quality,
> MPG, design, and resale value) for the last 20 years, and sold them
> for the same (higher) prices Toyota and Honda get for their vehicles,
> instead of relying more and more on trucks and steep discounts, do
> you think they would be in this situation?"
>
> Answer: Yes, but it would have happened a lot sooner. The price of
> the Big 3 vehicles would be a lot more expensive than foreign made
> vehicles that have cheaper labor costs. Material costs should be
> similar, but the almost $20 per hour more that Americans get paid
> to make these similar quality products would have to add to the price
> of these vehicles. Not to mention the great benefits that these employees
> receive while working for the Big 3 and after retireing from the
> Big 3.
>
> The way the Big 3 has been able to keep prices competitive with foreign
> made cars is not by reducing labor costs, but by reducing material
> costs. Thus creating cars that are built to last 100,000 miles while
> foreign made cars are built to last 300,000 miles.
>
> I say throw away the labor unions and hire those looking for jobs
> to do the same work for probably half the cost.

GM Proves There Is an Alternative to Bailouts

maybe Toyota's vaunted business model isn't that much better than anybody eles's.


On Dec 23 11:25 AM Lazaris wrote:

> This is not about GM..it's about the deep economic recession (depression?)
> that the world is in. Even Toyota is posting a loss for the first
> time in decades. Every country in the world is helping their domestic
> auto industry. Seeking alpha, the southern Republicans and others
> just want to bust the union..plain and simple.
> GM was well on its way in its re-structuring, with historic concessions
> given by the U.A.W. in the 2007 contract, agreeing to new hires being
> paid $14.00 per hour..well BELOW not only the "transplant" auto companies
> but what you can get at any factory, union or non-union, and taking
> over retiree health care.
> Basically the union has already been busted!, They were busted in
> the 2007 contract., and the fruits of that would have started to
> been realized in 2010. GM has reduced its work force by 60,000 in
> the last few years as the old "dinosaurs" leave or retire. By 2010
> most all of those with 25+ years would have been gone.
> I agree, GM has a lot of "legacy" costs. But that can be expected,
> GM has been building vehicles in this country for 100 years, and
> have a lot of retirees. The "transplants"... have only been building
> in this country for 15 years and thus have no retirees yet.
> Would you just take the pensions and health care away from all the
> retirees? The "new" autoworkers will not have pensions and will have
> reduced health care.
> Give the 2007 contract a chance to work its way into full implementation
> and you will see that the union has already been busted, and that
> the Big 3 will have a huge Advantage over the "transplants"...<br...

GM Proves There Is an Alternative to Bailouts

there is a thing called the pension benefit guarentee corporation. It is a gov't entity of some sort. It will pick up up to 54,000 dollars a year in pensions. Health ins etc is there or somewhere but it is not as good. Just google pension benefit guarentee corp and read it all for yourself.

All the union bashers think the retirees will get dumped. And they will. Right into a Gov't pension fund.

IT'S CHEAPER TO KEEP HER!


On Dec 23 11:14 AM william martin wrote:

> Will the government take over the pension plan? In BK they would.
> If the government is getting new shares of GM ,they should be part
> of the solution.

Let's Hope the Auto Bailout Has Failed for Good

I sincerely wish that everyone of you nay sayers lose your retirement and health care when you retire.

My eighty year old mom lost her retirement through the rulings of a Federal Bankruptcy Judge. Thankfully the Union and the Federal Gov't picked it back up. If the company I worked for goes belly up, I could lose my retirement and health care.

Most of you are talking out your asses. You have no idea what it is like to be in the position you are advocating. Most of you are fat cats with big undeserved salaries and retirements. I'm living on 2600 a month. I used to be able to count on 500 to a thousand a month from my investments. That went down the drain. You bas____ds come live with me.

The Republicans and many business people have advocated privatizing retirement. This is exactly why it won't work. You work all your life scrimp and save to put money in a retirement program; and, just when it's time to retire the economy goes into a "retraction" or a "recession" or more likely another "great depression". Then you consider yourself lucky to have a job let alone a retirement.

No golden parachute for the working man.

If the Automakers go under, it could very well be the straw that broke the back of the US economy.

How many of you have forgotten the old addage "a stitch in time saves nine".