neutrino23

Lithium Ion Batteries and GEVs: False Gods for the New Millennium

Not all chemistries used in Li batteries are flammable. I won't promise that we'll stop using the flammable variety, just to let you know that is not the only game in town.


On Nov 30 10:23 AM John Petersen wrote:

> <img class="authors_reply" src="static.seekingalpha.co...">
>
>
> Franklin76, Jack Lifton told me the news about the TOXCO fire a couple
> hours ago. The website link you provided says in part:
>
> "A fire occurred inside a lithium battery storage building at Toxco
> on November 7. The fire occurred during non operation hours and no
> one was injured by the incident. Toxco and Regional Kootenay Fire
> Officials concur that an internal short in one of the batteries in
> storage is the likely cause of the incident."
>
> While the fire has apparently not taken out the primary recycling
> facility, it concerns me that "an internal short in one of the batteries"
> apparently started a chain reaction that took out the storage facility.
> The question I would love to see answered is "if a short in one battery
> can take out TOXCO's storage building which almost certainly has
> safety equipment out the wazoo, what could a similar short do to
> a 24 kWh battery pack that runs between the child safety seats in
> a Volt."

How PHEVs and EVs Will Sabotage America's Drive for Energy Independence

The Prius currently does not use lithium batteries. It uses NiMH batteries. Word is Toyota is researching lithium batteries intensely but they are not there yet.

I applaud the intense research into lithium (and other) technology and it may eventually yield a very useful technology.

The good point about the electric vehicles is that they clearly are designed to use less energy. The problem with hybrids is that not all hybrids are designed the same. The Prius and Honda Insight get fantastic mileage. Many other hybrids get only slightly better mileage than their gas powered counterparts. The car company has to design the whole car to get good mileage.

I get your argument about the EV. I don't go along with you on the PHEV. For example, If the Prius could go about 15 miles on a charge (about 3kWH useful battery, probably nearer 4kWH on the label) that could yield well over 100mpg for many people as much of our travel is short trips near home. This number depends on driving patterns. 3 - 4 kWH is a relatively small amount of energy that could be applied by a relatively small array of solar cells which would help even more.

A separate consideration is to look at the amount of energy invested to manufacture these vehicles. Toyota works hard to reduce the energy needed to build a Prius. If the manufacturer is not careful about this it can take more oil to build the vehicle than is saved in operation.