Elliott

How Natural Gas Can Save the U.S. Economy

Art005 -- I'm taking storage efficiency into account.

We know that the Chevy Volt will be rated EPA about 230 mpg and the Nissan Leaf over 300 equivalent mpg. The most efficient CNG vehicle comes in at __ mpg? There's no way no how any CNG vehicle is going to be over 50 mpg. CNG is not in the same ballbark.

The problem is the internal combustion engine. It has too many moving parts, too much internal friction. It's an old technology that's served us well but it's time to move on.

The free market is answering the EV vs. CNG question: automakers are rushing new electric vehicles to market but are not rushing CNG. I think it's because the engineers know that electric cars are the next quantum leap in energy efficiency and low cost operation.

I say develop nat gas, nuke, coal, wind, etc. and make lots of electricity and use it to power small urban cars. Farmers, ranchers, big rigs, etc. can continue to use gasoline, diesel and CNG.


On Aug 12 11:56 AM ART005 wrote:

> Elliot, you are not taking into account the cost of the battery for
> a full service elec. car with on board generator. You are refering
> to a misleading definition of efficiency based only on electrons.
> If you include storage efficiency costs the picture changes dramatically!!

How Natural Gas Can Save the U.S. Economy

M Fitzsimmons wrote >>>Elliot: you are against natural gas transportation because it is not efficient enough for you? ok, well, answer me these questions:
1) do you think US addiction to foreign oil is a problem?
2) do you think the US will go under if it keeps importing 60-70% of its oil in an era where worldwide oil supply won't keep pace with worldwide oil demand?
if you agree to 1) and 2), then please tell me how the US will signficantly reduce it oil imports *without* using natural gas transportation. <<<<

You might want to read my original post again. Yes, I think US addiction to foreign oil is a problem. Yes I am all for developing domestic natural gas. However, I think it has been demonstrated repeatedly that less energy is wasted if natural gas is used to make electricity, and then that electricity used to power electric cars, than putting NG directly into NG-powered vehicles.

If we are serious about maximizing the use of domestic energy sources, whether it be nuke or NG, then a key component of any strategy will have to be the phase out of the internal combustion engine for passenger cars.

How Natural Gas Can Save the U.S. Economy

I agree it should be national policy to consume more domestic natural gas and less imported oil. I disagree that natural gas transportation is the way to get there.

As I've posted on SA before, the problem is that all internal combustion engines are relatively inefficient. Depending on which study you quote, anywhere from 60% to 84% of the energy you put into internal combustion is wasted on heat and internal friction losses. What a shame it would be to take our precious natural gas reserves and waste most of it out of our collective tailpipes.

Electric motors are the most efficient motors known (actually, the bicycle is the most efficient motor known to man, but let's not go there) and approximately 75% of the energy put into an electric motor rolls the car forward, and only 25% is wasted on friction losses.

More efficiency is gained when natural gas is burned for electricity. Modern combined cycle generation plants are very efficient at converting gas to electricity -- combined cycle means the waste heat of the first turbine is captured to make steam and drive a second set of turbines. And so at the end of the day a fleet of electric cars, with electricity generated by nat gas will always trump nat gas cars that burn gas direct. The only barrier that remains is improving battery technology to increase range and decrease charging times.