Byallmeans

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

94 miles was the max range on an EV1

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

the other thing about this that just greases my chain that never was revealed in the infamous movie was that Arizona Public Service committed to build a charging infrastructure along with California when this whole debacle started. In return APS recieved a fleet of electric S10's. After APS saw that the take rate on the project didn't exist they backpeddled as did California bigtime on the charging infrastructure. The California Legislators at Carb killed it themselves to negate the cost of the charging infrastructure. They bailed leaving GM to take the hit by scapgoating them along with Toyota and Ford. Thats the truth!! I was there!


On Nov 11 09:48 PM hard working american wrote:

> One more thing i forgot to add
>
> sometime in the late 80's or early 90's GM had working electric car
> that averaged around 170 mile per charge. Now they have the VOLT
> that gets 40 miles to a charge
> they couldn't make any money on service. so they trashed the the
> prototypes (sent them to the crusher)
> If they would have continued that project they would probably have
> the #1 selling car in the world right now.
>
> BUT GREED GOT IN THE WAY
>
> DOWN WITH UNIONS

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

whisper your right, what you drive is entirely your choice and I wouldn't begrudge you, but your slitting your own throat. When the big three cancel the program that your creating the manufacturing tooling for you have to ask yourself. If Gm had sold one more car would it have made a difference whether I continued to work for that company that made that equipment or not. The reality is it more than likely would have if everyone that made those types of support items thought in those terms.

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

the volt will go 40 miles on solid charge and could go 120 but to sustain a ten year 150 thousand year warranty on the battery its charge window needs to be kept between 40% discharge and 80% full charge. The other difference is it will keep on going under petrol powered electric power for an additional 400 miles. The problem with the EV! was when its out of charge your walking. The volt will give you pure electric pored but also ensure you will get home when its over.

Toyota is working on a plug in Prius. You know what its batteries are projected to proivide under full electric power? 6 Miles Then the engine takes over.

40 miles,6 miles. GM has the upper hand.

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

your right they did and the reality was that even though they found 800 to 900 hard core tree huggers to lease them thats where it ended. It stopped right there no more takers. Now you have all watched the movie but the reality was that those cars were literally prototypes and GM, wanted to gauge the real market intrest. Guess what folks at the 8 to 900 mark it was game over no more takers. Now the cost of those vehicles was 1 million dollars each. Now tell me how you could justify a business case with any ROI with vehicles of that cost with that low of a take rate. If GM sold them for the price of a Ferrari at 200 thousand each they might have been able to break even. The public killed the electric car because they didn't want them. In fact the Prius which the public now hails didn't sell for the first three years. It was a zero sum game. I am sick and tired of the american public trying to spin this into what it was not. When an auto maker produces a vehicle they are obligated by law to provide service for it for ten years. If you built a product that flopped would you sign up to provide the service cost for ten years. Not a snow balls chance in hell. Toyota even entered and jumped out with the RAV4, Its easy to rewrite history when the public in general was ignorant about the real cost implications.


On Nov 11 09:48 PM hard working american wrote:

> One more thing i forgot to add
>
> sometime in the late 80's or early 90's GM had working electric car
> that averaged around 170 mile per charge. Now they have the VOLT
> that gets 40 miles to a charge
> they couldn't make any money on service. so they trashed the the
> prototypes (sent them to the crusher)
> If they would have continued that project they would probably have
> the #1 selling car in the world right now.
>
> BUT GREED GOT IN THE WAY
>
> DOWN WITH UNIONS

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

By the way, who do you think holds all the CDO's (corporate debt offering) for these companies. Oh yea thats right. The same banks that just got bailed out for gambling like they were in vegas, whom we also bailed out with 700 billion. Boy I'm just looking forward to that going up in a pile of smoking ashes when those CDO's become worthless along with the potential for them to eat another 2 to 2.5 million defaulted mortgages.

Its gonna be awesome watching the military grind to a halt when all that high tech electronic stuff thats made by GM spin off companies like Hughes, Delphi, Raytheon etc all the sudden can't produce replacement parts for F16's F18's M1's Apaches etc because the same suppliers that are going down in a ball of flames are the same ones that make and supply those components.

But never fear we can source that stuff to china to.

Chapter 11 is no chapter as even in the event of a prepackaged C11 there are and will not be any investors to bring any of them out of C11. Won't happen just look at Delphi. They've been ready to go for a year now and no investors, zero nada zip zilch.

Get ready america, you asked for it your gonna get it.

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

Remove the subsidized healthcare from the UAW related labor fee and their on par with the japanese. The 72 dollar figure is misleading as it encompases salary, vacation allotment, health care and life insurances.

The simple fact is if the domestics are not supported some 780,000 retirees will fall into the PBGF which the american public will absorb wether they like it or not.

Lets do some math. The average retiree in that group makes about 2500 a month. If it defaults to the PBGF its about half. so 1250 * 780,000 = 97,500,000 per month the government will have to subsidize and thats a low ball figure.

If the government wants to fix the issue they'll level the playing field as the domestics have been asking for years.

That means addressing yen manipulation and reigning in the cost of medical in this country.

Its impossible for a company to be competitive when its the largest supplier of medical benefits in the entire USA to the tune of 5 billion a year. By the way if you fold that up the medical industry better bend over and you to because the medical industry and the pharma's will pass the cost right on to you. Plan on it like taxes.