richard_nogginn

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

Nappy, that comment got a chuckle out of me. User I'm pro-union too, because I have benefited from my membership. However, I'm not pro-UAW and here is why.

When I worked for GM installing parking brakes, one day the line suddenly stopped. It turned out that a mixed race couple working in the paint booth had been arguing over the man being a cheat. During the argument he stabbed her. That caused the line to shut down, because unpainted cars were downstream of the paint booth. Two days later the guy was back at work, while the woman laid in a hospital. Apparently the union forced GM to put him back to work. From that moment on I knew they were too powerful and would eventually kill the golden goose.

Another thing the union did wrong was not to encourage union employees to work up through the ranks, educate themselves, and join the management team. Therefore, management and union officials were always at odds, instead of finding ways to work together. The electrical industry paid 75% of my college education, because they know the value of a manager who worked their way up. A meter of cooperation is much more valuable than a kilometer of competition.

I don't drive a Toyota. Had two and hated them. At the moment I'm driving a 2001 Buick Century with a v6. I love it. GM v6 engines are almost as economical as Toyota 4 bangers.

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

Thanks for your comments leapingcat. I've heard the adage that when the USA sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold. How that happens I don't have a clue.

I'm pretty tired of reading rants and finger pointing. All that does is raise the blood pressure and make the heart work harder. Today, we have a unique opportunity to pull together, brainstorm, and find our way out of this mess. In order to do that we have to focus our attention on what methods will work the best in the US economy.

My personal choices are:
1. Increase manufacturing by making our own shoes, TVs, washing machines, garbage cans, etc. The selected manufacturing components must be subsidized in order to compete with foreign products.

2. We must continue to innovate. We haven't put any new products on the market since we commercialized GPS. Our economy is risk when we do not create new products. (GM is supporting two initiatives that will make ethanol for less than a dollar a gallon). Our economy is predicated on free thinking r & d. If it means allowing full stem cell research, then so be it.

3. Open up new markets. I believe the most recent market to open is the CO2 trading system in Europe. New markets create new wealth.

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

Uh plumber Employment at will is exactly why unions are needed. The ploy used to get employment at will laws passed is that the law gives a person the right to work! If you take the time to read employment at will laws you will find that the law actually gives an employer such as you, the right to hire and fire at will.

Now I know you aint a real plumber because if you were you would have been part of AFL-CIO. That is the union that regulates a plumbers wage. If you were a licensed, union plumber you wouldn't be so mad about working 70 hrs a week for little or nothing, because you too would be protected. Now did the auto workers elect the wrong union leaders and almost kill the golden goose? Of course they did. Does Toyota, Nissan, VW, et. a. recognize it? yep. The way they handle their workforce used to be by ensuring the oriental paternal management concept was enforced, vs the western model.

How do companies such as Wal-mart and Tyson's keep unions out? They scare the hell out of their employees.

However, Joe you are absolutely right. Without banding together to ensure our protection, we leave ourselves open to having to work long hours for little pay, too high healthcare payments, and no pension (other than SS). I would attempt to organize my fellow manual laborers to at least get healthcare costs down and ensure we have a pension in our old age. Believe me, management will do their best to keep you from organizing, because the union will cut into their pay. They may go as far as to fire bomb your house so be aware and protect your family. Once you organize though you find the benefits of being union greatly outweigh the risks. If my company had not organized I wouldn't be on medical retirement now, or have the opportunity to pay my house off. I would have been out the door with a "see ya, wouldn't want to be ya".

I've seen college educated engineers up through PHDs join the union for their own protection. The same goes for Chemists and Physicists. They became the backbone of our unit and a select few have moved on from union to management positions. With them moving into management, our company management is now much more sensitive to the needs of their employees.

Self employed I read where you were dissing auto workers for spending their pay increases. Since you are self employed I also know that you held any employees pay to little or nothing, while you increased the costs for your products, relative to their pay increase. I'm betting you were salivating each time you heard they might get paid more. You also know that you directly benefited from it. So cut the BS.

Should We Really Bail Out the Big Three Automakers with $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

Wow there are a lot of comments!! I'm a disabled IBEW union worker, and I believe I have a solution for "legacy" payments. If companies that hire union welders, electricians, riggers, etc. took time to look, they would find that the unions are much better at gaining good healthcare benefits at lower costs. That's because the total of the union workforce is much greater than it is at any one company. IBEW is doing it now.

Of all the hourly people in the country, Nuclear Reactor Operators should be the highest paid. This is because they can go to prison or be heavily fined if they screw up. Unfortunately UAW workers make the same wage. I've worked at the Fairfax GM plant, so I know what assembly line workers do. It's the same thing over and over again.

In every union there are people who want to kill the golden goose. You know the type...me, me, for me. If they become business managers or chief stewards the results can get ugly. It is up to the rank and file to elect responsible officials.

I realize there are quite a few people that do not understand what a union is supposed to do. The intent of a union is not money, money, money. The intent is to give the working man a voice. If a worker is being bullied, hit, or harassed it is the unions responsibility to help the employee file a grievance. Grievance resolutions always include at least one steward, one mid level manager, and the employee. The union is also responsible for ensuring the employee is paid a fair days wage for a fair days work. Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers shed their blood for that one. The union is responsible to ensure the companies overtime policies are fair. If an employee is being forced to work overtime, the employee should be paid fairly. It is the unions duty to ensure that companies provide adequate vacation time and sick leave. There is more but this is getting a little long.

Lastly...Union contracts set the wages for the rest of the country.

GM: Charging Forward with the Volt?

ATWshop
I purchased an Opel GT over 30 years ago that gave 34 mpg... the Opel was a sub-line sold thru GM Dealers. Then for some odd reason, the entire line was taken off the market. You figure out why... it was a great car with great features and great gas mileage = why take it off the market???

The reason the Opel was taken off of the US market is that it didn't sell very well here. Toyota today uses the same 4 banger they did in the 70's with a few updates. The 72 Corolla I had got 32 mpg highway with a manual transmission and a 1800 CC motor (1800 CC = 1.8L). The 2001 Century I have now gets 30 mpg highway with a 3.0L V6 and 4 speed automatic. Oh yeah that's cause GM invented the throttle body and went back to using overdrive.

All the gushing over Toyota's hybrid makes me sick. The system was invented by EPA labs. All Toyota did was copy the drawings once the EPA patent expired. EPA labs have now put a hydraulic hybrid system together that is 75% efficient vs 25% for the electrical hybrids.

GM: Charging Forward with the Volt?

First of all we cannot loose GM. Detroit Diesel is within the GM family, and is the company currently rebuilding HumVees. From what I've been told by friends that work at DD most rebuilds are due to IEDs.

GM factories were put to work rolling out tanks in WWII, and Ford was rolling out the iconic Jeeps.

As a country we cannot allow the bastions of our manufacturing base to be lost. If we allow it and our country needs them again in time of war, we are pretty screwed.

GM Volt: Dream Car or Road to Bankruptcy?

I'm in line to buy one. I'm not buying it for looks, or for the price. I'm buying it to help us in the USA show Venezuela, Iran, and the Saudi's that oh, by the way....we don't need your stinking oil after all. Here's hoping they drown in it.