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  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    What's your proof that they are not. The churn rate supports that they are.

    Also the FTC guidelines make it clear that distributors are not the "sales to the public" -

    You lose on three grounds:

    1. They signed a contract to be a distributor.
    2. The churn rates show they are distributors.
    3. The FTC considers them distributors.

    Sorry, they aren't customers.
    May 19, 2015. 08:57 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    I do understand this. I understand that MLMs try to use the "they are just customers" so that they can avoid calling them "failed distributors in a pyramid scheme."

    If you say that everyone who doesn't recruit someone is just a customer, the failure rate in the pyramid scheme seems to disappear... except for that pesky enormously high churn rate.

    I'm sure you understand this as well, but you like to play ignorant.

    My job is help people with their finances... which includes making smart purchasing decisions and pursuing legitimate business opportunities.

    There's no spin cycle going on in my blog. I called the end of MonaVie back when it was doing a billion a year in sales. And they face foreclosure: I called the downfall of LifeVantage as well.

    Why would anyone say there is something positive about a business with an annual 92% churn rate and 95% of preferred customers leave the company every year? This isn't about perceived negatives... it is actual negatives... especially when you pack on the lies that Joe McCord invented Protandim. When did lying become a positive?
    May 17, 2015. 08:27 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    Sorry Dr. Suess, but by DEFINITION if you sign up as a distributor, you are a distributor... not a customer.

    What you described is quite common in MLM, as it is the best way to hide the bottom layer of the tree/pyramid/recruitment hierarchy of failed distributors. The high churn rate exposes that they really are failed distributors.

    You should be at least smart enough to know that if you sign a distributor contract, you are a distributor. My son who isn't quite 3 years old can follow similar logic.
    May 16, 2015. 08:05 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    There is no such thing as a "monthly customer with a D by their name." That's a distributor... otherwise they wouldn't have the D.

    An annualized 95% of preferred customers stop buying every year according to previous earnings call information. See the math here:

    Hard to claim that LFVN has real customers, when they can only retain about 5% of them each year.
    May 15, 2015. 10:58 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    Being complicated isn't entirely subjective. I don't think anyone will say first grade math is more complicated that college level organic chemistry.

    I submit a test that someone of average high school intelligence should be able to understand it as they would a normal wage paying job. LifeVantage's compensation is so difficult, I've have prestigious lawyers come to me to ask me about the nuances of it, because they aren't sure they have it right.

    Pretty safe to say that it matches any conceivable objective analysis of complicated.
    May 15, 2015. 10:53 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    LifeVantage is way past a correction for all the reasons cited in this article. They haven't growth in a long, long time. They fired almost all management. They seem to be choosing not to buy back their stock when it is at its cheapest. You could go on and on, and the author did a tremendous job that should be applauded.

    Duane, can we add MonaVie to your imploded MLMs? They kept insisting that they were undergoing a correction as well.
    May 15, 2015. 10:49 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    I used end retail pricing of products in my analysis (not raw ingredients), so it is an apples-to-apples comparison... such as bottled water to bottled water.

    A vast majority of the bottled water sold is not via any MLM, so there is no question about whether it is a pyramid scheme. There is no recruiting component at all.

    There's a history of the $50 price point of Protandim not working in retail... it was sold at GNC for years. There were few sales and the company racked up debt.

    I think a case could easily be made that people are paying for the perceived business opportunity... and that there's little product value as a percentage of the VantagePack pricing.
    May 14, 2015. 08:52 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Can LifeVantage Continue As A Going Concern? [View article]
    Doctorsuess, there is about $60 worth of actual product in 13 bottles of Protandim (one of the Vantage Packs). You can find the math and analysis here:
    May 13, 2015. 07:27 PM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    Actually, supplements can make claims if they are proven to help. You might be familiar with claims about vitamin D and calcium for bone health for example.

    You are making a claim that assumes that correlation is causation, which is not always the case. As always, the challenge is for LifeVantage to prove causation which is done through large scale clinical trials -

    It bears repeating... No your MLM Does Not Work:
    Apr 2, 2015. 05:13 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    Let me get this straight. You presume that all articles in the PubMed database are equal and call me a fraud for choosing some over others. I point out that they are not equal. You then agree with me and try to score points by saying that "[you] figured [I'd] go there."

    Huh? You man an error, so yes I'm going to call you out on it. You get no points for claiming to predict that I'd act rationally.

    Researchers will cite articles that prove the points they want to make. They have not back and verified the results of the experiments to be accurate. They probably have no idea that they are done by LifeVantage scientists because many of them don't properly make the disclosure.

    So if LifeVantage directly pays scientists to perform studies, it is okay. However, if a reputable doctor (Hall) is an expert at debunking scams is not paid by any single health-related company (that I can tell), it is not worth reading.

    Again, Hall appears to be the only independent doctor writing about Protandim.

    Once again, if LifeVantage's science was noteworthy in any way, they would have gotten anyone other than Talbott. He's already been sanctioned by the FTC and has been involved in two other collapsed (or collapsing) pyramids (MonaVie, Xango). They could seriously have grabbed any pharmacist in any CVS or Walgreens and it would have been a huge step up from someone with Talbott's track record.
    Mar 31, 2015. 10:48 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    Here's one of the problems with letting LifeVantage distributors debate the science. They use logic like, "You also criticize Pub Med articles, yet, use one yourself to bolster your incorrect statement."

    This makes the INCORRECT assumption that all articles that are indexed in the PubMed database are considered equal. They aren't. There are different quality journals with different impact factors. There are biases in studies like ones that are authored by LifeVantage and ones that are not. McCord was a board member of the Free Radical Biology journal.

    Jim wrote, "Therefore, Protandim's COMBINATION of botanicals, in knowledgably calculated individual quantities & purities, provides an optimally effective means to induce HO-1 induction through the Nrf2 pathway - discussed in this study."

    Again that study was by LifeVantage company owners (McCord was much more than just a salesman) published in a journal with which he was on the board. This study was analyzed by the unbiased Dr. Harriet Hall (source: and she wrote, "They tested the individual components and apparently established that there was a marked synergism when the ingredients were combined. If this is true, it is unusual and deserves further investigation. In general, mixing natural medicines has produced additive but not synergistic effects, despite the claims of naturopaths that synergistic effects are common and are a basic principle of herbal medicine."

    So if NRF2 is important and Protandim is important where are the non-LifeVantage scientists studying this to ensure that this cornerstone argument is valid and the result of multiple obvious biases (some of which I don't think were properly disclosed in the paper).

    Jim said, "Therefore, we have a 'non LifeVantage" paper noting Protandim's ability and potency in stimulation of the Nrf2 pathway.'"

    Again, that was abstract and it doesn't appear that the paper was ever published. Don't use the argument that I'm non-degreed, you'll lose every time, because that argument from authority is a common logical fallacy. Prove me wrong by directing me to the link in PubMed. At least then we can read the methodology of the research.

    Are you really concerned about people overdosing in curcumin? It is my understanding that it is staple in the cumin which is a staple in Indians' diets. If there is a concern about toxicity, people can alleviate that taking the same amount in Protandim... unless you want to claim that amount is toxic. That was trivially easy to solve.
    Mar 30, 2015. 10:00 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    Wildcat referenced multiple studies. I was referring to one of those specific to Protandim, the product that LifeVantage makes. That's why I linked to it and made it clear that I was responding to that study.

    You are referencing a different point that Wildcat makes.

    Your "CORRECT" link has a very empty page with little content other than a heading. Maybe it is because of the Asian character set... I'm not sure.

    In any case, if you read what I've written, I'm not arguing against NRF2 activation. I'm arguing the point that NRF2 existence equals Protandim effectiveness.

    A conference on NRF2 does not translate to health benefits from Protandim. It also does not translate to any advantage Protandim has over simple green tea and curcumin... two ingredients of Protandim that have, in studies not sponsored by LifeVantage have been shown to activate NRF2.

    Let's be very happy that you aren't a moderator for Seeking Alpha.
    Mar 26, 2015. 08:48 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    How did Protandim "work", Pilotwkl?

    There's no objectively observable effect of lowering your oxidative stress, which is what LifeVantage claims it does. There's no observable difference between taking a vitamin C tablet, which also reduces oxidative stress and a placebo.

    And remember LifeVantage itself states on, "Protandim and other LifeVantage products are not intended to treat, cure, prevent or mitigate any diseases."
    Mar 25, 2015. 09:25 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    Wow, I count 1 democrat in that whole list. I don't follow MLM from a political party perspective, but something so lopsided is unmistakably obvious.
    Mar 21, 2015. 02:17 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Serious Concerns For LifeVantage [View article]
    They should still pay people if they make sales. LifeVantage doesn't appear to be very well set up for people to "work the biz" as over 99% lose money and it has an annual churn rate of 92% (Source:

    You should most definitely not go with the system already "in place." It doesn't even make business sense as there's nothing to differentiate yourself from competing LifeVantage salespeople.
    Mar 21, 2015. 02:14 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment