Douglas Korthof

Customer Is the Winner in the Electric Vehicle Market

It's all a sham!
at least so far.

There are 8-year-old Toyota RAV4-EV plug-ins, using cheaper, proven NiMH batteries, that have over 100 miles all-electric range on the same battery pack.

GM is not serious, it's just jiving. If it were not lying, GM would stop suppressing the fully restored EV1 at WWU, which GM has threatened to confiscate and crush. Even though it's operating on gummint munny, GM is still killing the Electric car.

As for Toyota, they are apparently forbidden from using superior NiMH batteries for plug-ins, due to their shameful surrender to Chevron's lawsuit that prohibited them from making plug-in cars and stopped production of the NiMH batteries needed for all plug-in cars with more than 100,000 miles life and up to 200 miles range.

15 Cars Fueling the Auto Industry Recovery

Muscle cars and phony "hybrids" that still can't plug in.

Just proves that auto companies are con-jobbers, and people are stupid. How soon they forget, and how little they care.

As expected; the "green" fad will fade, and the oil-auto companies will be back to business as usual, pimping oil, where the profit is, and oil-fired cars -- which is just the "needle" for the oil drug.

GM: What Its Progress Report Doesn't Say

General Motors is a proven liar and perverter of the truth, about everything from the EV1 to the VOLT. The same nincompoops leading GM now are the ones who fatuously and arrogantly led it into the toilet over the last few decades. Ironically, GM just RAISED salaries to "retain talent"!! With talent like that, there is NO HOPE.

GM's only hope is to flush out bad management, from top to bottom; but they are living in a dream world, still blaming the line worker for GM's management failures.

I can see it now. Fritz thinks "it was all the UAW's fault! What they should have done was design better cars, and cut management fat!!".

Unfortunately, Obama has just funded the same crew of bozos to continue blowing money down the toilet for another couple years. They will need more, of course.

Toyota Offloads Financial Arm

If you're really worried about throwing Taxpayer dollars down the drain, you should protest giving $50 billion in our money to the same band of nincompoops who ran GM into the toilet. They are just as stupid now as they were before the gummint funded them.

Actually, Toyota makes many cars here in the USA, it's more of a contributor than a beneficiary; at least they provide good jobs and tax revenue. GM just sucks down cash and spits out layoffs; GM is planning to move production off-shore, they have no loyalty to those who supported them all these years.


On Sep 27 10:33 AM a. palmer jr. wrote:

> Shows you how stupidly our government people think. Why didn't they
> exclude foreign makes from the incentive program? I don't think our
> aim was to prop up foreign competition. Since this was done with
> American taxpayer dollars, I as a taxpayer would like for this program
> to have helped OUR businesses.

Is the Auto Industry Stuck in Reverse?

They are stuck in reverse because despite all the PROMISE, the actual CARS are all boring and obsolete. Auto makers can, and should be forced to, separate themselves from the interests of the major oil companies, and start making oil-free cars (which they could do now, with existing off-the-shelf batteries such as PSB 1260 lead-acid battery).
As far as China goes, they can SEND money into China, but never get anything back except cheap cars; perhaps they can sell them out side of China for actual cash, but they can never take hard currency out of China. So, really, all those "China operations" are purely an illusion, nothing of value at all unless they are planning to flood the market outside China (which would hurt them even worse).

How PHEVs and EVs Will Sabotage America's Drive for Energy Independence

On the contrary! Despite all the hype, there is no plug-in car for sale (except the eBox and Tesla, which involve a waiting list).

There is NO EV juggernaut; it's all a lie. There IS NO shortage of batteries now except in the fetid imagination of Big Oil paid sockpuppets.

Just as they "worry" about taxing the grid to power EVs, when there are no EVs!!

As Elon Must stated, don't worry about pastures for unicorns until there ARE some unicorns.


On Aug 26 01:44 PM John Petersen wrote:

> Tom, I try to keep the level of emotion to a minimum, but sometimes
> I'm less effective at that than others.
>
> CanEginTx and Mark Divy, many thanks for refining the details on
> my rough recollection from college chemistry.
>
> Zenfar, I'm no great respecter of EPA estimates, but they do provide
> a reference point. The real choke point in all of this is battery
> manufacturing capacity and until we can make all the batteries we
> would ever want, national energy policy has to favor putting the
> limited supply of batteries in the applications where they'll do
> the most good in terms of reducing gasoline consumption. I agree
> that the whole sector is in for massive growth and despite my contrary
> mutterings, there is an awful lot of momentum behind the push for
> PHEVs and EVs. One blogger throwing spitballs at that supertanker
> isn't likely to change anything, but it may open some investor's
> eyes to the broader opportunity that will unfold over the next few
> years.

Lithium Batteries: Nothing But Illusion

One correction:

'...There is mention of Bolivian reserves, which is mining geology’s term for estimated quantities “unverified” by believed to be present due to professional surveys and comparisons with other known deposits of similar types...'

s.b.

'...There is mention of Bolivian <b><i>reso... which is mining geology’s term for estimated quantities “unverified” <b><i>but&... believed to be present due to professional surveys and comparisons with other known deposits of similar types..."

"resources" are unproven so far as economically viable for extraction; "reserves" are bankable. For example, gold "resources" can be 10 million pounds, but if it's less than 1 gm per ton, it's not viable to mine it with current technology and at current prices, and can't be considered "reserves".

Lithium Batteries: Nothing But Illusion

Chevron's use of IP to suppress use of NiMH batteries and their use in plug-in cars violates laws against unfair trade practices IMO.

In addition, use of oil money to buy up EV battery patents goes against the very idea of patent rights, which are intended to promote the improvement of technology.

In this case, Toyota was penalized for improving the NiMH batteries, and their use was in practice suppressed until Chevron's rights are either stripped away by the Courts or until they expire.


On Apr 20 06:47 AM Douglas Korthof wrote:

> Very important article and true as far as it goes.
>
> FYI, the 1999 EV1 with PSB 1260 lead-acid batteries had a range of
> over 100 miles on a charge, and would work for the VOLT (the volt
> Lithium battery is 400 lbs., if that were PSB 1260 it would have
> 8 kWh, enouigh to go 40 miles in all-electric range).
>
> Nickel metal hydride batteries developed by Toyota-Panasonic's unit
> PEVE proved to actually last more than 10 years and more than 100,000
> miles, and are still running on the roads of California.
>
> Why is no one talking about lead or NIMH? Because GM is still lying,
> or painfully ignorant, about batteries.
>
> Lutz himself knows nothing about batteries; recall that he was CEO
> of EXIDE battery corp. when it filed for bankruptcy due to excessive
> debt and over-enthusiastic bombast about "Li Ion" batteries.
>
> Petersen is correct about lead-acid.
>
> General Motors bought up control of the NiMH patent rights in 1994,
> trying to suppress its use, claiming that it would not work in cars
> because of the heat problem. When Toyota improved NiMH so that it
> solved that problem, GM sold control of the patent rights to Texaco
> on Oct. 10, 2000. Six days later, Texaco announced it was bringing
> the patents to Chevron (Standard Oil of California). The year after
> the merger was consummated, Chevron funded a lawsuit by its COBASYS
> unit against Toytota.
>
> In Dec., 2002, Toyota agreed to stop selling the Toyota RAV4-EV,
> which we are still driving to this day, and Toyota stopped making
> the EV-95 improved NiMH battery that GM had claimed could not be
> done. Toyota had to pay Chevron et al $30,000,000, and to this day,
> you are unable to buy the EV-95 NiMH battery.
>
> That's why we are all driving on pre-2002 battery packs, which are
> still running fine.
>
> NiMH or lead-acid are the solution; Lithium is a bogus distraction,
> a con-job (at least so far), and a source of many investoer losses.

Lithium Batteries: Nothing But Illusion

Very important article and true as far as it goes.

FYI, the 1999 EV1 with PSB 1260 lead-acid batteries had a range of over 100 miles on a charge, and would work for the VOLT (the volt Lithium battery is 400 lbs., if that were PSB 1260 it would have 8 kWh, enouigh to go 40 miles in all-electric range).

Nickel metal hydride batteries developed by Toyota-Panasonic's unit PEVE proved to actually last more than 10 years and more than 100,000 miles, and are still running on the roads of California.

Why is no one talking about lead or NIMH? Because GM is still lying, or painfully ignorant, about batteries.

Lutz himself knows nothing about batteries; recall that he was CEO of EXIDE battery corp. when it filed for bankruptcy due to excessive debt and over-enthusiastic bombast about "Li Ion" batteries.

Petersen is correct about lead-acid.

General Motors bought up control of the NiMH patent rights in 1994, trying to suppress its use, claiming that it would not work in cars because of the heat problem. When Toyota improved NiMH so that it solved that problem, GM sold control of the patent rights to Texaco on Oct. 10, 2000. Six days later, Texaco announced it was bringing the patents to Chevron (Standard Oil of California). The year after the merger was consummated, Chevron funded a lawsuit by its COBASYS unit against Toytota.

In Dec., 2002, Toyota agreed to stop selling the Toyota RAV4-EV, which we are still driving to this day, and Toyota stopped making the EV-95 improved NiMH battery that GM had claimed could not be done. Toyota had to pay Chevron et al $30,000,000, and to this day, you are unable to buy the EV-95 NiMH battery.

That's why we are all driving on pre-2002 battery packs, which are still running fine.

NiMH or lead-acid are the solution; Lithium is a bogus distraction, a con-job (at least so far), and a source of many investoer losses.

Battery Wars

GM could make an Electric car right now, and could have made one at any time in the last 30 years.

Sure, GM colluded with Standard Oil of California (Chevron) to suppress Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries; but if GM were FORCED to produce a plug-in car, it would find a way to do so.

GM and the ghost of Chrysler will submit a "survival plan" to the gummint which is supposed to convince somebody.

But GM, and the gummint, is going about it ALL WRONG.

They are not only doomed to failure, they will miss a great opportunity.

Cost-cutting by closing plants and firing line workers has the BAD effect of destroying our manufacturing base. Instead of continuing the process of dismantling itself, GM should be doing a GENUINE restucturing and reorganization, to RETAIN and EXPAND that base, which contains the best workers in the world (contrary to GM's attempt to slander and blame their own workers).

What would that be like?

Well, GM has
too many of the WRONG dealers,
too many of the WRONG white-collar workers,
too many of the WRONG engineers, and
too little accountability.

Because GM has no effective oversight it is running wild (the Board of Directors is dominated by Wagoner, don't care if the stock goes to zero).

GM, and the gummint, must recognize the main problem:

GM IS MAKING THE WRONG CARS.

The solution is obvious, once you recognize the problem: remove the management that committed to making the wrong cars, remove the
engineers who can't build better cars, and start from scratch with new management which has a real interest in making cars that people
can't wait to buy.

Instead of FIRING, GM should be HIRING!!

GM should be retooling for world-class cars, cars that get more than 50 mpg, that are well-engineered, and that last longer than 10 years, cars that have features such as electric motor drivetrain, climate-controlled cabin, a goal of no emissions, and real efforts to PRODUCE such cars.

Instead of what GM's whining, simpering and pouting about all the things that it CAN'T do, it should start doing some of the things that need to be done! Get rid of failures and disgraces like Wagoner, Lutz and the rest of the overpaid, failed execs and bonehead, arrogant managers.

Don't fall into the trap of letting GM continue its "Wagoner-Lutz road to failure".

Require that GM STOP making gas-guzzlers.

STOP paying for for production of the WRONG CARS.

GM must be FORCED to make cars that are in the public interest; they would find out, if they did, that they could make money doing so.

Auto makers should not receive our money unless they make cars that are in the public interest. GM has produced a plug-in car in the
past, but now is stalling and refusing to make plug-in EVs.

Toyota's RAV4-EV is still on the road, last sold in Nov., 2002, and running fine on the same set of batteries for the last 7 years.

GM, and the rest of the Auto Alliance, must be required to make and SELL a plug-in car if they want to do business in America.

Li-ion Batteries: A Speculative Field of Dreams

You're right. No Lithium Electric car has, so far, gone more than 50,000 miles without significant battery degradation.
The fact that NO manufacturer is looking at the proven success of Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH), which are cheaper and longer-lasting than Lithium, shows that they are all shamming. They are just plain lying about their intentions; GM itself admitted that it's all about P.R.

Ironically, the reason no one can use NiMH is that GM bought exclusive worldwide patent licensing rights to NiMH in 1994, and sold the rights, on Oct. 10, 2000, to Texaco; six days later, Texaco announced that it was merging into Chevron, taking control of NiMH with it.

The next year, Chevron funded a lawsuit aginst Toyota, after which Toyota paid $30 million to Chevron and its allies, and production of the NiMH battery and the Toyota RAV4-EV that it powered ceased. No more new EV-95 batteries can be made or sold at any price, even for replacement of the few RAV4-EV that need new batteries (3 so far, out of about 328 that were sold to the public up to Nov., 2002).

Patent right should not be used to suppress technology that works; and an OIL COMPANY SHOULD NOT CONTROL PATENTS TO THE ELECTRIC CAR.

The next time you see Lutz pattering on about batteries, ask why they aren't using NiMH or even PSB 1260 lead-acid, which gave the EV1 over 100 miles range.

Impact of GM Destroying the EV1

GM is still lying about the VOLT. If GM were serious, it would just build the VOLT, or at least allow volunteers to restore the gutted museum-donated EV1 that it's now suppressing.

GM lies about needing Lithium batteries; Lutz is either ignorant, or just a liar about the batteries.

In reality, the EV1 had over 100 miles all-electric range using LEAD batteries (after Delco was superceded by PSB 1260 batteries). GM could release a version of the VOLT using lead batteries RIGHT NOW, instead, they are postponing until, they hope, the price of gas comes down and people forget about the EV.

GM could use NiMH: GM once owned the patent rights to NiMH!! But sold them to Chevron, which then sued Toyota to stop the Toyota RAV4-EV being sold to the publc. Instead of being crushed, the Toyota RAV4-EV are still running, over 100 miles range using NiMH.

So why are GM and Standard Oil (Chevron) lying? You figure it out, it's obvious. The money is in OIL, and GM is just the supplier of the "needle", the big money is made by Chevron selling its "drug".

Impact of GM Destroying the EV1

There were those who wanted the EV1: EVERY ONE HAD A LESSEE.
The thing YOU forget is that GM took them back from willing buyers, and crushed them all.

It wasn't that GM had unwanted EV1!

It was that GM relentlessly hunted down and crushed (or gutted) them all, and then billed the lessees for "scratches" on the EV1 that they crushed!

On Jul 30 07:16 AM Miken wrote:

> When discussing why GM dropped the EV1, you forgot one issue, nobody
> wanted them with $1.25 fuel. GM knew that the cost to produce them
> was so high that no one would buy them, so they tried to lease them,
> still nobody wanted them. GM is not the government, they are responsible
> for financial performance and cannot continue to produce a vehicle
> that they can't sell or lease.

How To Save the Big 3 Automakers

Labor had nothing to do with GM's problems. It's easy to blame the engine room crew when the ship goes aground. Ignoring the drunken lookout and passed-out captain. It's the top brass that cause the problem, of course.

GM destroyed the EV1: there should be NO BAILOUT unless GM uses the Taxpayer money to resume production of the EV1.

Lutz, who claims it can't be done, needs to be fired; Wagoner, who created the problem, needs to be prosecuted; and the Board of Directors needs to be brought up on charges.

If the auto industry is a matter of national security, and takes Taxpayer money to fix, then the white-collar criminals who destroyed that industry should pay the penalty due to those who endanger our national security.

West of the Pecos, we call those folks "traitors".

It's not as if they didn't have warnings: Ross Perot tried to fix GM decades ago, and Kirk Kerkorian just recently bid $31/share for a chance to fix GM -- but Wagoner and the Board refused to listen to common sense.

GM jailed cash customers, instead of selling them the EV1: GM top brass now should be jailed and prosecuted for destroying the lives of the workers and for endangering the national security.

How To Save the Big 3 Automakers

Labor had nothing to do with GM's problems. It's easy to blame the engine room crew when the ship goes aground. Ignoring the drunken lookout and passed-out captain. It's the top brass that cause the problem, of course.

GM destroyed the EV1: there should be NO BAILOUT unless GM uses the Taxpayer money to resume production of the EV1.

Lutz, who claims it can't be done, needs to be fired; Wagoner, who created the problem, needs to be prosecuted; and the Board of Directors needs to be brought up on charges.

If the auto industry is a matter of national security, and takes Taxpayer money to fix, then the white-collar criminals who destroyed that industry should pay the penalty due to those who endanger our national security.

West of the Pecos, we call those folks "traitors".

It's not as if they didn't have warnings: Ross Perot tried to fix GM decades ago, and Kirk Kerkorian just recently bid $31/share for a chance to fix GM -- but Wagoner and the Board refused to listen to common sense.

GM jailed cash customers, instead of selling them the EV1: GM top brass now should be jailed and prosecuted for destroying the lives of the workers and for endangering the national security.