1RuleNoRules

Orwellian Finance: Is 1984 Happening in 2009?

Ron Paul is a whack job.
Poor people need homes.
Tax the rich and corporations and give the middle class a break.
Taxation is the cost of civilization.
Terrorists are everywhere waiting to attack us.
The world would fall apart if the US military came home from their overseas bases.
Homeland Security is necessary to protect us.
The media is free and open and will point out the corruption and our failings.
Now, let me finish my Kool-Aid in peace.

Service-Based Economy Is Progress? Show Me the Money

On Nov 26 03:44 PM BS Detector wrote:

> "The free market is always right."
>
> Hardly. Ask Ben Graham (well, okay, he's dead) or Warren Buffett
> (well, okay, you couldn't possibly). At any time, the markets are
> full of inefficiencies, improper valuations, and opportunities.
> When was the market right: when it valued Berkshire Hathaway shares
> at $95,000 on 11/18 and 11/25, or when it valued it at $75,000 on
> 11/20?
>

Yes it was! Continually evaluating and correcting.


> "Capital and investment flow to where the market is the most free.
> Oddly, that is China and India(at least more than us). "
>
> Nonsense. You clearly have no idea of the conditions the Chinese
> typically place on non-Chinese companies. Capital flows not to where
> the market is "most free," but to where the risk-adjusted return
> is highest. Basic, basic capitalism.
>
The risk-adjusted return is highest because their markets have suddenly been allowed the freedom to self adjust and correct.


> "We have government encouraged labor cartels(UAW, AFL-CIO etc.),"
>
>
> Which have created work conditions which are not as favorable to
> labor as exist in much of Europe. By the way, I think you need to
> look up the word "cartel."
>
Unemployment is very safe.

From Wikipedia
"A cartel is a formal (explicit) agreement among firms." (<---firms here being Labor Unions)
"Cartels usually occur in an oligopolistic industry, where there is a small number of sellers and usually involve homogeneous products." (<-- here the product is labor. They especially are Labor cartels.)

> "We tax consumption and labor and savings and investment."
>
> And yet our taxes are lower than Germany, France, Canada, Austria,
> Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Switzerland, Turkey,
> the UK, Portugal, the Czech Republic, Norway, Spain, Italy, Australia,
> New Zealand, Korea, Luxembourg, Poland, and of course Sweden. Of
> the OECD countries, only Ireland and Iceland have a lower tax burden.
>
In the 80's maybe. During the campaign it was stated that corporate taxes are the 3rd highest in the world. We constantly tell ourselves how low are taxes are. That so you won't mind paying. When everybody pays for every tax.
>
> "We should be taxing what we don't want."
>
> We do. But this could quite obviously not be the source of a meaningful
> amount of revenue.
>
Meaningful to who, bureaucrats.


> "Our nations economist have not spoken with a unified voice to say
> 'taxes bad' ,'government spending bad', 'market intervention bad'."
>
>
> Funny that you didn't say "deficit spending bad"; how very Reaganesque
> of you. By the way, there's been no unified statement like you want
> because NOBODY BELIEVES IT. Economists tend to agree with Holmes'
> statement that taxes are the price we pay for civilization. And
> clearly, not all government spending is bad, and not all market interventions
> are bad.
>
Tax revenue double under Reagan. During his term Democrats complained loudly about cuts to future spending. Those deficits clearly belonged to Democrats.
Are you say the more one pays in taxes the more civilized one is? Socialism is not Civilization and thats what our liberal friends arguing for when the quote Holmes, socialism.
The burden of proof is on Market intervention as a being even marginally productive in the long term.


> "I think we need this calamity, so that to remember Milton Friedman,
> and oust the Keynesian's. The strength of Keynesianism was it attempt
> to explain the success of the Soviet Unions command economy."
>
> You demonstrate once again that you don't know anything about Keynes'
> theories. Please, go ahead and make some connection between Keynesianism
> and the failure of the credit markets. I need something more to
> discredit.

The Failure of credit market is a failure of government. Government intervention to put poor people in their own homes "the American Dream". The predominant economic theory in practice today is Keynesianism. Through Keynes the argument is made for government to grow and spend us out of trouble. Isn't that exactly what Obama is planning now? We need to tax cut our way out of this. And not by cutting taxes of those who don't pay them now, but those who pay the bulk of them.

Service-Based Economy Is Progress? Show Me the Money

The free market is always right. Capital and investment flow to where the market is the most free. Oddly, that is China and India(at least more than us). We have government encouraged labor cartels(UAW, AFL-CIO etc.), government market intervention into milk, butter, ethanol, wheat and how about home mortgages (<--how long is this list?). We tax consumption and labor and savings and investment. And what else did I miss?. What kind of imbalances has this created? We should be taxing what we don't want. This is a failure of democracy not free markets! Smart and knowledgeable people have either said nothing or where not heard. Our nations economist have not spoken with a unified voice to say "taxes bad" ,"government spending bad", "market intervention bad".
I think we need this calamity, so that to remember Milton Friedman, and oust the Keynesian's. The strength of Keynesianism was it attempt to explain the success of the Soviet Unions command economy. Now we follow in their footsteps.