DiggerUK

India, China and Gold

Aiki,
Not exactly what I have been looking for. Got this from IMF site as well.
It doesn't say a lot.

Did India get 1/2 because it bid highest, was anybody else bidding, has anybody else bought, did anybody else want it, did anybody else get a look in?
It's the politics behind it all I'm trying to get to the bottom of.

The IMF gold sale soap opera, has been running for a long time now. And just like a soap it is at the final episode.
But this ain't soap, it's reality. Much more gripping.

China, Korea Driving East Asia / Pacific Economic Resurgence

Hmm-mm,
Would Mrs.Clinton be happier if S.Korea or China got to buy any of the second tranche of IMF gold.
Interesting info in this article.

India, China and Gold

I have been burning my eyes out on the web for a couple of days now, trying to find the process by which the IMF's gold is sold.

Who decides?
What committees decide?
Were in the IMF site is the sales process outlined?
Were are the minutes?

Anybody got a clue, we woke up a couple of days ago to find out the gold was sold to India, and that's it.

Any bets as to who gets the next tranche.
Australia? Japan? S.Korea? Saudi? Brazil?

Incurious Gold Manipulation Theorists

@ Screwloose,
The trade in the lease is mainly for collateral, not collection of physical.

Once the trade that the leased gold was covering for has served it's purpose, then the lease arrangement ends. Much the same as when you hand back the keys to a property, or a car, you have rented.

As the collateral might only be needed for a few hours, so that someone in India gets paid off someone in Europe that's it. Lease the gold back out as quick as possible. Just like a car rental. Fast turnover = high profits.
Gold is after all the oldest international currency, it just has it's own "forex"

No time for me to pass comment on the 90's carry trade. But I seem to recall that 50 (?) tonnes of India's gold was taken as physical collateral for loans in 1990 (?) by the BOE if memory serves me correct. Now that is what I call drastic. And don't forget that history rhymes.

Late here. See you around.

Why the IMF's Indian Gold Sale Matters

Seeking Alpha is trotting out articles on the IMF sale to India at a rate of knots, all of them failing to answer one question.
By what process was it decided that India gets 200 tonnes?
Dying to know the answer to that one.
(Hillary Clinton been sticking her oar in round the back somewhere ? Who knows.)

"I always thought that some of it would be sold off-market, but it was a bit of a surprise that as much as 200 tons had been sold off-market," Bank of Nova Scotia director of precious metals sales Simon Weeks told Reuters.
And this is someone who works for a bank that does the London Gold Fix twice a day.
www.lbma.org.uk/assocn...

Place your bets on who gets the rest.
Japan? Brazil? Mexico? Saudi? Australia? Iceland?

Incurious Gold Manipulation Theorists

@ Screwloose,
There is a world of difference between physical and paper gold. Paper gold has a third party risk, physical doesn't.
CB's and bullion banks are different entities anyway. They each have their own stack.

They also exist for different reasons. The bullion banks to smooth the path of international trade mainly, the CB's to regulate the states currency.
If a leasing arrangement is entered into by the CB it is just doing it's job of protecting the states currency. But it isn't selling the stack in the national vault, just allowing it to be used as collateral mainly.

As you can see from this link it is leased gold that is traded most, not physical.

www.ifsl.org.uk/output...

Incurious Gold Manipulation Theorists

@nobby73,
The conspiracy theorists argue, that since the London Gold Pool days of the 60's pog has been suppressed by CB selling of gold.
The sums do not add up, there has never been enough gold mined for the theory to stand.
Anyway the communist countries were providing all the gold that was needed for western CB's to sell on.

CB's lease gold mainly to earn a few bob, and facilitate international trade, not manipulate the price.
It has a transitory effect on the price, but that's all.
And after the best part of 50 years, if CB's were seriously over-leasing the secret would have come out by now.

If they have been over leasing then like all conspiracies it will come crashing down. Gold cannot be quantitatively eased into existence, much as you claim it can.

Gold Fever Spreads to India

On Nov 03 05:01 PM Roger Knights wrote:
"The mode of the music has changed."

Hallelujah. Somebody has risen beyond the shell shock of the IMF gold finally being sold with some joined up thinking.

As for me, now I'm at the manipulator and conspiracy theorists funeral, can I just say that I couldn't stand them when they were alive.

Remember this day, a day that will go down in infamy for some , deep joy for others.

India's Gold Grab Boosts Metal's Price

After years of never having the manipulation theory put to a real test, the much talked over IMF gold sales begin.
The first half goes to India, and the price of gold rises.

Be interesting to know who gets the second half of the gold tranche.
Japan ? Saudi ? Australia ? Brazil ? Iceland ?

GATA headquarters must look like the HQ of the party that just lost the election when the final vote has been counted on election night.
Today was the day manipulation theorists lost the argument for good.

Incurious Gold Manipulation Theorists

On Nov 03 03:18 PM frdm45 wrote:
"Central banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities
should the price go up."

They can only lease what they have got.
They can also lease what they haven't got.

What they can't do is sell quantitatively eased gold, it doesn't exist, nor can it be created.
The only way you can take the price of gold down is by supply always being able to outstrip demand, as Mr. Greenspan pointed out in his 1966 article.
Supply, as any bug should know, is very limited for gold.
www.lewrockwell.com/no...

Thanks for your prompt and courteous response, but the manipulation arguments died the death today.

Gold Soars to New Highs

Bespoke Investment Group underplays the dimwits, goldbugs and Gatagoons when they claim that the only comments raised were along the lines of :-
" raising speculation that the planned sale would cause a glut of gold in the market."

They were hysterical in their assertions that the gold price would be collapsed by "manipulation" and have been claiming so for a number of years now.
Well, I'm listening very, very hard, and can't hear a sound from them now.

Can't wait for the rest to be flogged off. Maybe we will get another press statement off the IMF manana.
Maybe it's been sold?

India Gold Buy Sets Record

People have been squawking about IMF gold sales "manipulating" the price of gold down, for as long as any of us can remember. Well, now the first tranche has been sold, and the p.o.g. has gone....hmmm, can't get my Kitco chart to work.

It was argued by many, that it was a non story for a quiet day in the news room. And guess what. They haven't got a story for quiet days in the news room anymore.

Ah well, back to shape shifting lizard stories then.

Incurious Gold Manipulation Theorists

Best not be cruel to the Gatagoons, they can't understand why the IMF selling half it's 400 tonnes to India hasn't manipulated the price of gold down.
Perhaps when the second half of the IMF gold is sold we will have a clearer picture.
Conspiracy theories are perfectly safe so long as you don't have sex with them, or inhale them.

www.imf.org/external/n...

IMF Sells 200 Tonnes of Gold to India for $6.7 Billion

The supporters of manipulation and conspiracy theories, who have been claiming IMF gold sales would lower the pog, seem to be very quiet.

Can we now get back to the serious business of good old fashioned c0ckup and beer.

Who is going to get the next tranche of gold.
Japan? Australia? Saudi? Brazil? Iceland?
Place your bets now ladies an gentlemen.

About Those GDP Numbers

The article shows the correlation between the percentage of GDP as stimulus, and the increase in GDP.

On another forum, a cynic claimed the Chinese increase GDP by getting a million people to dig a thousand holes. Then immediately double the GDP gained, by getting another another million people to fill them in again.

I'm trying to come up with a smart arse comment about when to stop digging, but I'm losing the will to live.