DiggerUK

A123 Increases IPO Price Range

John,
My agwaphobia is as virulent as ever, but hello to you and all your readers.

You give a price spread of $150/250/750 for lead-lithium battery costs.
As a total $ cost per vehicle, what is the pack cost?
Thanks.

Obama Announces List of Grant Recipients, Recognizing Significance of Hybrid Markets

MRTTF, renim and JP.
All comments well received. Thanks.

Obama Announces List of Grant Recipients, Recognizing Significance of Hybrid Markets

On Aug 10 06:49 PM DiggerUK wrote:

> MRTTF,
> Dow.....magnesium........
> D'oh.
>
> Can just see General Turgidon now,
> "Mr. President, we cannot allow a lithium mine gap to open up."<br/>"We
> must invade Bolivia now"

It's also time I logged off, my eyes are not what they used to be.

Obama Announces List of Grant Recipients, Recognizing Significance of Hybrid Markets

MRTTF,
Dow.....magnesium........
D'oh.

Can just see General Turgidon now,
"Mr. President, we cannot allow a lithium mine gap to open up."
"We must invade Bolivia now"

Obama Announces List of Grant Recipients, Recognizing Significance of Hybrid Markets

@ MRTTF and renim,

Lithium is strategic.
If it could be obtained cheaper from seawater, then cheap would have outdone strategic by now.

Truth is, the USA has no strategic reserves, as my link shows.
They check out against Wikis more recently compiled charts as well.
tyler.blogware.com/lit...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

By way of balance I link to an SA article that JP gave in response to my original post on this.
seekingalpha.com/artic...

Obama Announces List of Grant Recipients, Recognizing Significance of Hybrid Markets

All statements that accompany policy announcements associated with energy from US government include the mantra "Future Energy Security" in one form or another.

How does putting such a heavy dependency on foreign supplies of Li help in pursuit of that national strategic aim?
Putting the Li/Pb debate to one side, you are still left with an end result that you swap dependency on foreign oil, to foreign lithium.

The US is not awash with Li, but it is flush in lead.
You couldn't get a goofier policy from a think tank chaired by the Mad Hatter.

Alternative Energy Storage: Cheap Continues to Outperform Cool

On Aug 03 09:20 AM Davewmart wrote:
According to the mining companies Chemetall and SQM, lithium reserves are currently estimated to be between 14 and 17 million tonnes.

I have to challenge these reserve figures.
A quick check on Wikipedia comes up with 11m, and figures from my 2005 link come up with *13.4m.
These include lithium that is unobtainable for extraction with current know how , but does include the Bolivian reserves that are not currently available.

I also have to challenge you with the claims of $32 a kilo for lithium from seawater. It is claimed that it's $95 from present sources. Seems a no brainer at those prices were to get it from.

I accept future technology may open up presently unavailable lithium, it's just that we are in the here and now.

It could be that Meridian International Research are unreliable and there report is wortless, but here it is. I found it an interesting read.
The chart is on page 2.
* tyler.blogware.com/lit...

The Plug In Vehicle Scam

On Apr 28 11:14 PM Tony Petroski wrote:

> Back to the Future: Has anyone thought of a horse/electric hybrid?
> Attach an electronic prod to the backside of a horse and hit the
> "go" button anytime you want to accelerate?

All well and good but I think the animal rights people would have a lot to say about were the batteries would be stored!
Any thoughts on this one John. I've always viewed horses as carbon neutral anyway.
An unusual birthday present idea though.

Lead Acid Batteries: How Cheap Beat Cool at Google

Hi John,
You click open a memory file from a recent incident.

You reminded of when I saw the batteries being serviced on the backup system to the emergency exit lights and fire alarm at work.

I asked the engineer when they renewed the batteries, his response was "when they don't hold a charge"
To my question "how long do they last" I was asked "how long is a piece of string"

Guess what the batteries to this critical system were?

I remember at the time thinking I know someone who has asked for details on how long batteries last, sorry for the delay.

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

I realised it wasn't, I hope the recipient realised that too.

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

What you saying John, there wasn't a pony ?
What day is it mmmm....

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

We didn't get to the moon just because it was aspirational, it fitted in with the tactics employed in the cold war. If the programme had not had any military spin-off, there would have been no famous speech off JFK.

I don't draw swords with battery development. I just don't subscribe to the goofy "War Against Global CO2" which is today's miasma in my opinion.

There is every chance of beneficial spin-offs from the research being done though. Progress must always be welcomed.

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

Hi John,
We didn't get to the moon because it was easy, as I check my watch I am reminded that it wasn't done without it's dangers.

You often refer to the 6 revolutions in technology and the possibilities that could open up in the 6th. Don't forget to factor in the developments of "unintended consequences".
One example is from the Victorian engineer Joseph Bazalgette who was chief engineer on the construction of London's' sewage system.He was from the school that said that diseases such as cholera, were spread by "miasmas" (bad air) not bacteria.
(The whole world scientific community was united on that one as well ! )
This was the whole reasoning behind an airtight system. Many metal access covers still have "airtight" cast into them. To his credit he did accept the bacteria evidence by the time he'd finished. And the sewers are still working.

Did Johannes Gutenberg imagine that the printed word could cause revolutions over such silly things as liberty, equality and freedom ? Movable type is my #1 invention ever.

In your last para you mention were "mission critical constraints" could open up opportunities for li-on, good observation, remember nobody knew what to do with Teflon or electicity when they first found them.

Long Live the Cleantech Revolution

John,
As things stand, there is no incentive for producers of RE electricity to store what they produce, and deliver when required.

I have found no evidence in either Europe or N.America, of a financial incentive, that would make the expenditure to store RE electricity something that the producers would do.

It seems that the various schemes in place to subsidise RE's leave no funding to finance your hoped for bubble in energy storage companies.

Energy storage may be "cool", but it is not "cheap", and cheap is always at the optimum position in a bell curve.

Lead-Acid, Lead-Carbon Batteries: The Only Option for Average Consumer

On the issue of length of time a battery will store it's charge.

I had never taken into the equation the question of what the demands on EV batteries would be, beyond propulsion. Thanks to Dave Marsh and Proclaimer I now will.

Now into this debate is thrown the demands that will be placed by such things as internal heaters. Were I live we have just had our first serious snow falls, have any of the road tests been conducted that have drawn down power for heaters.

I don't think the current prototypes would get you to the local store and back with heaters running.

Were the road tests done on level roads or hilly areas.