DiggerUK

Alternative Energy Storage: Cheap Continues to Outperform Cool

On Aug 03 09:20 AM Davewmart wrote:
According to the mining companies Chemetall and SQM, lithium reserves are currently estimated to be between 14 and 17 million tonnes.

I have to challenge these reserve figures.
A quick check on Wikipedia comes up with 11m, and figures from my 2005 link come up with *13.4m.
These include lithium that is unobtainable for extraction with current know how , but does include the Bolivian reserves that are not currently available.

I also have to challenge you with the claims of $32 a kilo for lithium from seawater. It is claimed that it's $95 from present sources. Seems a no brainer at those prices were to get it from.

I accept future technology may open up presently unavailable lithium, it's just that we are in the here and now.

It could be that Meridian International Research are unreliable and there report is wortless, but here it is. I found it an interesting read.
The chart is on page 2.
* tyler.blogware.com/lit...

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

I realised it wasn't, I hope the recipient realised that too.

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

What you saying John, there wasn't a pony ?
What day is it mmmm....

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

We didn't get to the moon just because it was aspirational, it fitted in with the tactics employed in the cold war. If the programme had not had any military spin-off, there would have been no famous speech off JFK.

I don't draw swords with battery development. I just don't subscribe to the goofy "War Against Global CO2" which is today's miasma in my opinion.

There is every chance of beneficial spin-offs from the research being done though. Progress must always be welcomed.

Cleantech, Optimism Squared and the Battery Industry

Hi John,
We didn't get to the moon because it was easy, as I check my watch I am reminded that it wasn't done without it's dangers.

You often refer to the 6 revolutions in technology and the possibilities that could open up in the 6th. Don't forget to factor in the developments of "unintended consequences".
One example is from the Victorian engineer Joseph Bazalgette who was chief engineer on the construction of London's' sewage system.He was from the school that said that diseases such as cholera, were spread by "miasmas" (bad air) not bacteria.
(The whole world scientific community was united on that one as well ! )
This was the whole reasoning behind an airtight system. Many metal access covers still have "airtight" cast into them. To his credit he did accept the bacteria evidence by the time he'd finished. And the sewers are still working.

Did Johannes Gutenberg imagine that the printed word could cause revolutions over such silly things as liberty, equality and freedom ? Movable type is my #1 invention ever.

In your last para you mention were "mission critical constraints" could open up opportunities for li-on, good observation, remember nobody knew what to do with Teflon or electicity when they first found them.

Long Live the Cleantech Revolution

John,
As things stand, there is no incentive for producers of RE electricity to store what they produce, and deliver when required.

I have found no evidence in either Europe or N.America, of a financial incentive, that would make the expenditure to store RE electricity something that the producers would do.

It seems that the various schemes in place to subsidise RE's leave no funding to finance your hoped for bubble in energy storage companies.

Energy storage may be "cool", but it is not "cheap", and cheap is always at the optimum position in a bell curve.

Lead-Acid, Lead-Carbon Batteries: The Only Option for Average Consumer

On the issue of length of time a battery will store it's charge.

I had never taken into the equation the question of what the demands on EV batteries would be, beyond propulsion. Thanks to Dave Marsh and Proclaimer I now will.

Now into this debate is thrown the demands that will be placed by such things as internal heaters. Were I live we have just had our first serious snow falls, have any of the road tests been conducted that have drawn down power for heaters.

I don't think the current prototypes would get you to the local store and back with heaters running.

Were the road tests done on level roads or hilly areas.

Huge Incentives for Energy Storage in Today's House Bill

Hi John,
as there is someone on here writing as Battman, I shan't refer to you by that nickname again, apology(2) to Battman.

Your link in para 2, "Congressional descriptions" is coming up blank. Any reason.

I've added up the figures you give and find it comes to 9.8 trillion. Are there that amount of helicopters spare.

I know your bringing info about batteries to a wider audience than before, and I thank you for that. But it seems that the bubble in this sector is going to be bigger than even you speculated. Hence this article.

I still think RE's are goofy. New age batteries I can live with.

Lithium Unicorns and Alternative Energy Storage

"Battman", whichever way I turn to try and answer problems you, and all the contributors raise, I keep finding penny packet solutions to a $64000 question.

If electric transport is to be the future I can't see it happening with any of the current batteries on offer. Problems of raw material supplies seems to be the main topic of your current post with new generation batteries.

Despite improving longevity and power delivery each year, I see no exponential increase to the levels needed to secure their future. We will have to wait and see were that glass ceiling is.

Lead batteries tick a lot of boxes. Ease of raw material supplies, as near to 100% recyclable as possible and easily mass produced. But they weigh a lot, energy is wasted just moving them about . They also appear to have reached their maximum potential.

I view wind and solar as a 21st century folly. That stated I can't see storage of any power from these sources as a global solution to giving 6000 million what us 500 million have.

We won't know for a while if we are asking the right questions either.

Cleantech: The Sixth Industrial Revolution

frflyer,
I feel you do not see base load as I understand it.

By base load I mean the amount of power that has to be available on a guaranteed basis 24/7. I don't refer to power supply as base load.

Power supply needs to meet base, peak and intermittent needs.

I only see a place for RE's in the intermittent supply. Storage would only make RE's more reliable in that role.

None of your sources makes a claim that RE's can be relied on for base load.

Cleantech: The Sixth Industrial Revolution

Nuclear not only delivers base load, it can be delivered universally.
Fossil fuels can be transported globally, but have a finite lifespan of supply.
Fossils have a bad image problem (GW lobby) , alongside a political problem (Russian gas/OPEC oil)
The 500 million have worries over future supply now, the 6000 million want it yesterday.

Renewables to me compare with some of the plausible plans put forward in the early part of the 18th century to claim the "Longitude Prize" . I write wearing my most treasured and revered possession. The NASA approved Omega watch.
I am not comparing storage efforts that you pursue with, the "powder of sympathy" theory of that time. Anybody interested in more on this should read "Longitude " by Dava Sobel.
The watch won that prize because sea captains decided the issue by purchasing the damned things. The watch was available, reliable and affordable. Your musings on Betamax/VHS and AppMac/Microsoft are spot on.
Future energy supplies are something with a big prize on offer.Don't forget John Mcain was going to offer a prize of $300million if elected, Obamas going to throw a similar amount at "powders of sympathy" in my opinion.
I don't play with stocks and shares, I just suspect that a dotcom type bubble could happen. Make sure you spot when to get out before it pops.

Cleantech: The Sixth Industrial Revolution

"Battman" I have not found anybody in the RE lobby who make claims of reliable base load capability. Iceland uses all it"s geothermal for base load supply, not hydro. Their hydro is used for any shortfalls.
And this is a country putting all it's eggs in two baskets.

Cleantech: The Sixth Industrial Revolution

Hi JP, or can I call you "Battman", after reading your contributions I will never look at a battery the same again.

I haven't come to an opinion as to the best option for storage of electric power, but you have helped me to find the options.

All options do not put RE's in the base ,or peak load supply chain.
They could only be used in the intermittent supply, and I do doubt their reliability to perform that task .Especially if the weather has not allowed the storage reservoirs to fill up.
The storage option improves on the waste of producing electricity when not usable.

I am not an agnostic like yourself, I am truly atheist on dangers of GW.
But as a former believer I do realise the benefits of testing arguments to destruction.

Alternative Energy Storage Stocks: Review and Outlook

Thanks

Alternative Energy Storage Stocks: Review and Outlook

Hi, it was the comment that spoke of power sources in navy ships that lead me to here.
You mentioned WW2 subs, and it reminded me of a picture I took of my son at the Submarine Museum in Portsmouth. He is standing next to a 1/1.5 metre high sub battery with his mobile in his hand. (remember the early jokes about mobiles :)
I couldn't believe that subs still used such old technology. Obviously with success.
I was on the search engines till dawn. Now you talk about composite foam, asymmetric lead, carbon hybrid. You do realise that some of us are back at work tomorrow.
Help us out here which sites give me the specs of these beasties?

On Jan 01 09:22 AM John Petersen wrote:

> DiggerUK, the article you want is at:
>
> seekingalpha.com/artic...
>
>